[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils)

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Originally Posted by practical joke

A friend of mine is taking non-grim tutor lists into the dailies and so far has never lost to the Gerry T' supreme blue lists.

It's a beatable match-up, die-roll for G1 is important since the deck has no clock to kill you with, just a soft-lock (which is annoying anyways)

Most are trigger happy to put SDT on top when you cast a duress or something. The deck plays no spell pierce mainboard, just snares (dunno if it even plays pierces sideboard)

EDIT: he's not playing doomsday in SB but krosan grip, but when you resolve doomsday, it's insta-win anyways.

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I'm glad y'all get to play against bad CB players (I don't unfortunately). Be aware that hoping they get trigger happy with top isn't going to get you there if they have any idea what they're doing. This applies especially if they're playing the Bant list with a clock, or the thopters list, which has a million silver bullets that screw us over.

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Originally Posted by leegoo

New board plan vs. CB
-1 Ad Nauseam
-1 IGG
-1 Tendrils
-4 Preordain
-1 Island

+4 Doomsday
+1 Shell Dock Isle
+1 Emrakul
+2 Thoughtseize

that also keeps all the tutors in.

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I would also board out a Mox for Wipe Away. There are all sorts of shenanigans that can surprise you postboard, depending on the list. Karakas is the most obvious, but I've also been screwed over by things like Ensnaring Bridge and Oblivion Ring (damn you thopters).

I like it. -1 mox +1 wipe away.

I'll also throw out my "i'm wrong" bit. Emidln you were indeed correct, 4 is the right number of IT post board.

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Originally Posted by Practical Joke

A friend of mine is taking non-grim tutor lists into the dailies and so far has never lost to the Gerry T' supreme blue lists.

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This is me, and my record against Gerry T CB lists with ANT is currently 4-2 in my favour. Oddly enough my record against landstill is worse. I don't run doomsday, as I don't like wasting 6 sideboard slots on 1 matchup. I just play 2-3 split second remove cb cards (grip/wipe away) in the board.

You steal games against this deck because:
They have CB top but no FoW and you go for it turn 1/2
They have CB but no top and you sometimes win through it
They get screwed over by their godawful basic mountain (no turn 2 cb, happened several times)
They have CB top + fow but no clock and you just grip it and win

The thopter lists are tougher but see less play. They can consistently assemble CB top due to their tutors, but their clock is horrendous and they have issues with blue count for FoW (often letting you kill two forces with one duress as they are his only blue cards). My record against them is 2-2.

I'm not saying these are anywhere close to good matchups, and I have definetely gotten lucky to beat them on several occasions, but it's quite possible.

On another note, i've been doing some video reports on my legacy dailes, I just posted the first one in the tournament reports here

Hope you guys have some feedback for me! :cool:
(yes I realize I don't play vs CB there, I will try to record one where I do :wink:)

Good to see you around here finally :)

Congrats Ari,

You have shown 2 things. Your version of the deck, complete with grim tutors, is completely legit as you have played it to high finishes on several occasions. The doomsday sb plan is effective as a foil to one of our bad matchups.

and how do u sb doomsday plan?

Yes well done Ari, got to watch you in rnd 2 against CBthopter against one of the guys I rode down with. What a beating.

I got crushed by Bant top round 1 (blind top swap into Force of will after duress on turn 2... sigh) and in round 3 vs. Goblins after bricking on a land drop 4 turns in a row... died with lethal in hand every turn after 2 and never casting a black spell... after preordaining and pondering and seeing nothing.

Great pick on Trickbind. 1 cheaper than wipe away and solved the same problems after DD.

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Originally Posted by leegoo

Yes well done Ari, got to watch you in rnd 2 against CBthopter against one of the guys I rode down with. What a beating.

I got crushed by Bant top round 1 (blind top swap into Force of will after duress on turn 2... sigh) and in round 3 vs. Goblins after bricking on a land drop 4 turns in a row... died with lethal in hand every turn after 2 and never casting a black spell... after preordaining and pondering and seeing nothing.

Great pick on Trickbind. 1 cheaper than wipe away and solved the same problems after DD.

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It doesn't solve Needle, but it does solve Karakas and Wasteland. Not too worried about Wasteland out of CBTop and Karakas is easily avoidable and bounceable with Wipe Away. Plus Wipe Away costs 3 making it harder to blind flip.

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Originally Posted by amonchakai

and how do u sb doomsday plan?

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maybe :
+ 1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
+ 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+ 4 [6E] Doomsday
-1 ad nauseam
-1 tendrils
-3 petal
-1 island/swamp

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Originally Posted by amonchakai

maybe :
+ 1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
+ 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+ 4 [6E] Doomsday
-1 ad nauseam
-1 tendrils
-3 petal
-1 island/swamp

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you don't want to take out the petals.
At DC I boarded (vs. Bant Top)
-1 Tendrils
-1 Ad Nauseam
-1 IGG
-1 Chrome Mox (mox is getting cut from my main however, so this will change)
-4 Preordain
-1 Island

+4 Doomsday
+1 Emrakul
+1 Shell-Dock
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Wipe Away

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Originally Posted by amonchakai

maybe :
+ 1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
+ 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
+ 4 [6E] Doomsday
-1 ad nauseam
-1 tendrils
-3 petal
-1 island/swamp

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No. Do not cut Lotus Petal when your plan is to cast the card on turn 1-2. t1 land, duress, into t2 land, petal, dd is extremely common.

ok then cut preordains....tnx to learn a new becomer :D

Congrats on your finish Ari,
I'll read up on SCG later for details about matches and stuff.

hi again people:
i love ari's list but i havent Grim Tutor$$ any replacement card?or good idea for it?
maybe 2 chrome mox/chain of vapors/ad nauseam?
Rhystic Tutor?
tnx

Article should be going up on SCG. Gist of the DD plan:

-4 Infernal
-2 LED
-3 AN/IGG/Tendrils
-2 Preordain
-1 Island

+4 DD
+1 Shelldock
+1 Emrakul
+3 Chain
+2 Seize
+1 Trickbind

If I knew they had no Karakas/Waste, I would leave in a Preordain over Trickbind. Didn't want IGG to begin with, Ad Naus is out with DDs. Makes Infernal LED much worse as you only have the straight Tendrils plan usually for that way and Infernal is awk to get DD as you have to be all in. So Infernal goes, LED is bad with DD so it goes (ok to combo with Grims -> DD so a couple stay) and Tendrils just gets bad then.

Needle/Peacekeeper are usually non-issues with Chains boarded in, they have to get CB-Top-Needle up before you Emrakul them or have double counter as you can represent double Chain very easily. Trickbind could be Wipe, but I figured that it was easier to get 2 lands + Shell vs Waste and 3 + Shelldock vs Karakas than 3+ Shell vs Waste and 4+ Shell vs Karakas. Plus I figured both were fairly marginal value anyways and Trickbind was cooler.

Currently just want to work on BUG match up, as 2 of my 3 losses at these were to it (other one was CB Top I would have smashed with DD plan in Indy). Issue is the deck needs ways to gain actual CA as you have to make a lot of trades. 2nd Ad Naus is a start, Bob would be good, possibly Arena.

Congrats on your result Ari. I don't think boarding out IT and LED when you're on the Doomsday plan is optimal. Both cards actually enable you to get a Doomsday out quickly, and the plan only works on the first couple of turns. If you want to play that Trickbind, I'd do:

-2 Island
-2 Grim Tutor
-1 Ad Nauseam
-1 IGG
-1 ToA
-4 Preordain
-1 LED

I don't think having cantrips is any good in a match where you need to be quick to race the opposing creatures and CB. I'm not buying Grim Tutor is good enough to keep. It's possible to run the ToA anyway for random wins through IT chains, which is not that unlikely to happen anyway.

I noticed something in the coverage you said: "I've considered Xantid Swarm, but I haven't sat down and tested whether it's good against Merfolk. If they Force it, you just lose your Trop to Wasteland, so you're way behind.”

Swarm is a massive bomb against Merfolk. In the situation you describe, if he doesn't happen to have the FoW, there's no way you're every going to lose that game anymore. If he has the FoW and he does Waste your land, I really don't see how you're that far behind. You usually only need a win through a Daze at that point.

I don't think there's much profit in boarding the Doomsdays in when you're not planning on using it for the Emrakul. You need to run a Meditate or Idea's Unbound for the most profitable piles. The other options are Brainstorm piles, which usually win through IGG. They're decent, but usually require more cards in hand, making LED preDD worthless.

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

I'm not buying Grim Tutor is good enough to keep. It's possible to run the ToA anyway for random wins through IT chains, which is not that unlikely to happen anyway.

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How do you cut grim tutor over infernal tutor? Especially if you cut an LED. For one more mana (and 3 life, which is much less relevant when you are on DD plan) you get the card (can't imagine it being anything but DD) without requiring Hellbent.

On the flip side, I didn't board out IT either (and I do think keeping them in is worth it..) when I sided DD in... but I also scrubbed out so ;)

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Originally Posted by leegoo

How do you cut grim tutor over infernal tutor? Especially if you cut an LED. For one more mana (and 3 life, which is much less relevant when you are on DD plan) you get the card (can't imagine it being anything but DD) without requiring Hellbent.

On the flip side, I didn't board out IT either (and I do think keeping them in is worth it..) when I sided DD in... but I also scrubbed out so ;)

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If you board out cantrips and land, this deck is not going to have a hard time making hellbend anyway. The only card you then run that might clog up your hand is Doomsday, in which case you don't need to Infernal anyway. The 3 life turn into 6 life because of Doomsday, which is quite a lot.

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

If you board out cantrips and land, this deck is not going to have a hard time making hellbend anyway. The only card you then run that might clog up your hand is Doomsday, in which case you don't need to Infernal anyway. The 3 life turn into 6 life because of Doomsday, which is quite a lot.

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I see what you are saying, but the 6 life in the matchup you bring DD in against (countertop) is still pretty much moot. Even the Bant versions can't deal 6 or 8 damage to you ( -1 from fetch, possibly -2 from Seize, -3 tutor, -8 doomsday) before Emrakul kills them (considering we are trying to make the DD combo happen t1/t2 before counterbalance hits)

Again, I'm not against leaving the tutor in, just not sure that cutting a less situational tutor to leave it in is optimal.

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Originally Posted by Bahamuth

If you board out cantrips and land, this deck is not going to have a hard time making hellbend anyway. The only card you then run that might clog up your hand is Doomsday, in which case you don't need to Infernal anyway. The 3 life turn into 6 life because of Doomsday, which is quite a lot.

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You have it backwards. 3 life turns into 1 or 2 life because of DD.

20-3 = 17
20/2 = 10
floor(17/2) = 8

19-3 = 16
floor(19/2) = 9
16/2=8.

I really don't like going all in on the Doomsday post board as I have flexibility in my stacks if I get to hold a second DD or Chain or more mana sources, so LED Infernal is out.