[Deck] Zoo

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Originally Posted by IrishLegend

I havent really tested step lynx. The only thing that worries me about him is hes a dead draw other then your opening hand. I could be wrong. I will test him this weekend. How he testing for you guys?

I dont play Lavamancer as a 4 of do to the fact I dont want him in my opening hand. Ive tested with 3 and I really like the results.

As for loam lion I really dont know what to say. But I think we have had this conversion before. Something about the mana base blah blah blah.... lol

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The Steppe Lynx with Knight of the Reliquary is decent. I've seen some very good plays using those two cards. The Knight gives him some power in the mid/late game, but other than that, he's draw dependant. Considering his inconsistency without fetches on the board, I'd be leery of running him as a 4 of. He speeds up the game, but still does not produce solid midgame reach. He can be really good with fireblasts in the deck though, since blast also caters to the same early-game strategy. He's also great alongside Quasali Pridemages with a KotR untapped... ;)

For his downside: He doesn't get huge like KotR and Goyf. I'd be more apt to run Loam Lion since it has Lynx's ability at "landfall 1" permanently. It makes it a more solid overall card, rather than an explosive card without a late game.

@IrishLegend: If you're running a fetch intensive deck, test/play the Lynx over the Lion.

I don't see why we would want to run Steppe Lynx when zoos strength is in its consistency. Lynx might win you some games but will also lose you other games and is too dependent on lands when this deck isn’t designed to take advantage of landfall effects. Loam Lion is simply Kird Ape 5-8 with some relatively minor differences but remains a 2/3 regardless of the game state.

A Wasteland would beg to differ, but I agree with what you're saying. I see the value in running Apes and lions over the lynx, consistency is optimization, right?

Lightning Helix, Steppe lynx, knight of the reliquary and Sylvan library has won me alot of games. Way more then other cards in the deck. I would play Figure of Destiny or Mogg Fanatics before i would touch the ape and the lion.

Really Mogg Fanatic lol. Has anyone tried/ tested the wasteland build of zoo?

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I don't see why we would want to run Steppe Lynx when zoos strength is in its consistency. Lynx might win you some games but will also lose you other games and is too dependent on lands when this deck isn’t designed to take advantage of landfall effects. Loam Lion is simply Kird Ape 5-8 with some relatively minor differences but remains a 2/3 regardless of the game state.

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I used to be against Lynx, but I've also seen a turn one Lynx, turn two fetch, Pridemage, swing for 5. Lynx is surprisingly bursty. Usually, it's an Ape, but sometimes, it's a Goyf.

I advanced searched for it and couldn't find anything, so I'll ask here:

Anyone play with Burning-Tree Shaman in the 3cc slot over KotR/Throctar? I am curious if anyone has, and would share their experience.

After reading a cedric phillips article on SCG a few weeks ago where he had zoo with BTS in there, he argued a really good point for the card. Think of all the activated abilities in Legacy, and how this 3/4 for 3 turns those into damage sources. Plus, at 3/4, he can dance with a Rhox War Monk. Since it is a statebased effect, one doesn't miss triggers. I haven't played a match with it yet, but in some random games it has been easy to cast and had quite an effect on the board. It turns horrible matchup(s) into winnable ones (lands, mostly). Yet its only real drawback is that it turns your own fetchlands into shocklands, makes Lavamancer ping you, as well as Pridemage, should he be sac'd.

Thoughts?

I can't see shaman being better than Knight or thoctar at all. By the time you have the mana to play him, the activated ability damage hardly matters, and to gain any ground on thoctar or knight you'd need to be getting at least 1-2 damage per turn from him, and that just won't happen. Plus, a 3/4 does not face a goyf that well, whereas thoctar and knight can always do so.

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Originally Posted by jandax

I advanced searched for it and couldn't find anything, so I'll ask here:

Anyone play with Burning-Tree Shaman in the 3cc slot over KotR/Throctar? I am curious if anyone has, and would share their experience.

After reading a cedric phillips article on SCG a few weeks ago where he had zoo with BTS in there, he argued a really good point for the card. Think of all the activated abilities in Legacy, and how this 3/4 for 3 turns those into damage sources. Plus, at 3/4, he can dance with a Rhox War Monk. Since it is a statebased effect, one doesn't miss triggers. I haven't played a match with it yet, but in some random games it has been easy to cast and had quite an effect on the board. It turns horrible matchup(s) into winnable ones (lands, mostly). Yet its only real drawback is that it turns your own fetchlands into shocklands, makes Lavamancer ping you, as well as Pridemage, should he be sac'd.

Thoughts?

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I love this guy ever since he got printed. I ran him like once or twice when Counterbalance was THE deck, and activating Top was almost discouraged when i got em low enough. I think he is good, but not good enough. Most people wanna pay 3 mana for like a monster. I guess that's how it is anyway.

I was thinking of running Order of the White Clay or something cute like that. He wouldn't seem half bad if the format wasn't combo oriented atm.

Okay so I was not able to repeat as the Champion in the 2nd installment of the tournament that some local team runs in our country. Went 4-2, good for 17th out of 66. Here's the report and the decklist:

Well its basically the same as what is posted here http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?12624-[DTB]-Zoo/page119 post # 2380 except that -3 FoD and -1 Chain Lightning + 4 Goblin Guide. SB is the same except fot -2 Choke +2 Compost.

RD 1. Monowhite-Painterstone-Scepter-Chant! WOW

G1: T1 Grindstone for him, T2 Painters (saw my hand w/o removal), T3 he does his thing! LOSE

G2: I play and swing GG. He Scepter-Chants in his 2nd turn, good he did not find an early Painter-Stone. I managed to draw a Grip and cast it on his Scepter. I aggro him and win. WIN

G3: He plays, I mulligan to 5 for a removal or artifact hate but drew none. He does his thing at his 3rd turn. LOSE


Observations: I was bamboozled after the first game TBH. Took me by surprise honestly. For three games, he consistently dropped T1 Grindstone. Talk about luck.

Match: 1-2; After Rd 1: 0-1

RD. 2 Dredge

G1: I drew a Teeg in my first 7 but got no land. He explodes T3. LOSE

G2: No hate after mulligan to 4. He goes aggro with a $h!tload of tokens. LOSE

Observations: The top player of our country. Can be said as the best Dredge player of our country, also.

Match: 0-2; After Rd 2: 0-2

RD. 3 UB I-DO-NOT-HONESTLY-KNOW-DECK

(Just) observations: He plays his Standard lands that gains him 1 life every time he plays it. He has Hedron Crab. He has Maralen. Ugh, I do not really know the deck. I did not underestimate though, I was thinking he was some combo whatever so I was really cautious. Both wins I beat him down with creatures.

Match: 2-0; After Rd 3: 1-2

RD. 4 AnT

G1: He explodes T2 enough said. LOSE

G2: I landed a Teeg which he cannot answer. WIN

G3: He kills himself.

Match: 2-1; After Rd 4: 2-2

Rd. 5 UG Merfolk

G1: I spot-remove everything and beat him down with Loam Lion, Ape and GG. WIN

G2: He curves and even managed to Standstill twice. LOSE

G3: More of the same in G1. WIN

Match: 2-1; After Rd. 5: 3-2

Rd. 6 (Last Round of Swiss) Dragon Stompy

G1: T1 Trinisphere for him followed by a T2 Chalice for 1. He beats me down with R Pit Dragon. LOSE

G2: T1 Trinisphere again followed by a T3 RPD. I Managed to destroy the Trinisphere EoT then bolt his RPD. He does not do anything significant afterwards and I beat him down.

G3: No T1 for him. I GG on my turn and attack for 2. He casts Chalice for 1 but my GG is already in play. GG manages to deal 8 damage before he casts RPD. I Grip his Chalice and kill the Dragon. He got mana-screwed and I beat him down.

We play for sweep so I ended up 4-2 after losing the first 2 of Swiss. :laugh:

OVERALL OBSERVATIONS

Sorry for the not so comprehensive report. As you all can see, I was paired with combo decks early on thus my poor record. What I will discuss comprehensively is my experience with Goblin Guide. He was better than FoD I must say. His supposed "drawback" when an opponent reveals a land is not that much of a drawback for me. What is more important is that if your opponent does not reveal a land, USEFUL INFORMATION is instantly provided by GG.

An example: I attack w/ GG and opponent reveals an StP, I had a KoTR and a Goyf in my hand. Normally you would cast the bigger creature which in this situation is KoTR (4/4 + I had 1 fetch in hand) but seeing his StP revealed by GG, I instead baited for a 3/4 Goyf which he StPs thus my bigger KoTR was home free. There were other numerous times which I cannot recall that my decision during that day was greatly influenced by what GG revealed. So I am strongly sticking for this build at the moment.

To end, I was quite happy seeing my brother place 4th (his first Top 8) with his RB Goblins. I would like to share that his list was a bit sick because his RB Gobs had MD L Bolt and had 3 Perish on the side. Honestly, when we were playtesting the win ratio for me was like 1 win every 3 games and stayed the same during the SB. Another thing, a friend of mine using Zoo managed to get into the Top 8 losing to Threshold during that same day. Plus, deckcheck.net Top 8's are showing the resurgence of Zoo. What you guys think?

I haven't gotten a chance to test zoo against reanimator. I'm finding that zoo seems to be slightly favorable for us, but I'm curious if anybody has any more insight analysis than that.

Reanimator is about an even match up to be honest. Their plan of attack is going to be to put Iona, Shield of Emeria on most likely white or Sphinx of the Steel Wind into play. Iona can be raced/burned and sphinx can be pathed. All you can really do is race them and hope for a good hand. I personally play Red Elemental Blast in the sideboard it helps to keep them off their careful study and mystical tutors. Plus whatever other grave hate I run. I haven't tested to much against this match-up so I as well am curious to what people testing results are.

Sphix of the Steel Wind is their Game Plan A against zoo. Other than a potentially large Knight of the Reliquary, we cannot kill it in combat with the selection of creatures, unless you swing with a Steppe Lynx with Landfall triggered 3 times to make it a 6/7. I played agains this deck a couple of times at the SCG 5k Indy event and its a PAIN! Usually the reanimator pilot will have counter backup for your answers to the Sphinx. PtE, StP, or maybe Oust are the best answers to a Sphinx.

They usually only go for Sphinx if they have FOW backup. That's what I've learned anyway. Usually Iona on white is there main play, then to get Archron or Sphinx after Iona, then we just pretty much can't win.

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Originally Posted by Valtrix

I haven't gotten a chance to test zoo against reanimator. I'm finding that zoo seems to be slightly favorable for us, but I'm curious if anybody has any more insight analysis than that.

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As the others have posted, it's pretty much a race. An ideal hand would be a one drop creature (Nacatl, hopefully), a pridemage or goyf t2, and a burn spell or two to accompany a path. The goal is to get in as much early damage as possible so that they have to make a tough decision with Iona (white or red) or be forced to play Sphinx w/o the FoW backup. If you are able to do this, then you'll most likely take the game. Of course, if they get Iona out before you're able to get a good 7-10 damage in, they'll just name white and kill you, and if they have the FoW they'll go for the Sphinx. I also like the REB in the board, as it does help against the Mystical Tutor/Careful Study/FoW. In the 5 matches I have played this MU in my local meta (a very touch meta, at that) I have gone 4-1 with Zoo against Reanimator.

So, as I prepare to go to the GP Columbus trial, I'm considering the following list:

// Lands (20)
1 [CST] Mountain (1)
2 [R] Plateau
3 [R] Taiga
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [IN] Forest (3)
1 [US] Plains (4)
1 [R] Savannah
3 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [FUT] Horizon Canopy

// Creatures (23)
4 [ALA] Wild Nacatl
4 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [TO] Grim Lavamancer
2 [CFX] Knight of the Reliquary
2 [BD] Kird Ape
1 [EVE] Figure of Destiny
2 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic

// Spells (17)
4 [BD] Lightning Bolt
1 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
2 [LG] Sylvan Library
4 [CFX] Path to Exile
1 [WWK] Basilisk Collar
3 [MPR] Lightning Helix

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [EX] Price of Progress
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 [FNM] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [4E] Red Elemental Blast

Where the 1-2-3 casting costs are 21-17-2 in order.

With this list I am concerned about a few things. The first is if the stoneforge mystic package (or stoneforge at all) is worth running. If so, is collar worth running as the 3rd equipment? I've been thinking that lavamancers + collar could be a good foil to many of the big creature strategies going around as of late, though I honestly have no testing on this. Also, is this going to be too mana hungry and would I want the 2nd horizon canopy? If not, what to run instead. I would probably take out 1-2 mystics and the collar for the 3rd kird ape, 4th helix, and maybe a 2nd canopy.

From this list, I also really like the 1 swords and figure. Figure takes the place of a kird ape, since I get sick of running 3-4 of him, but figure can be both an early and late threat. The 1 swords has also been extremely beneficial to have more answers to goyf than people run goyf. I'd considering running more, but I think 5 sword effects is good.

Next, what to run as a sideboard. I'm not really sure what to expect, besides the fact that it's a GP trial, so it seems like a fairly open meta. I really like the 6 graveyard hate for reanimator, and graveyard decks in general. Price is for lands, because I expect that will make a showing there. Grip is ubiquitous. So I guess the blasts I'm least sold on.

@Valtrix: I would honestly just go -2 Kird Ape, +1 FoD, +1 Land. The list after that seems solid as hell.

So you would agree that running mystics and collar would be stronger than opting not to run them?

In addition, what are your thoughts on helix over chain lightning? I'm feeling like in a list like that that's starting to beg for more mana that chain might be more effective, where I feel as though helix bogs me down sometimes.

You also agree with the sideboard? Including the red elemental blasts? I haven't actually played with them before, so I can't judge their effectiveness, but so much is running blue. I considered them as extra answers to reanimator, as a way to hamper combo to sneak in enough damage, and as an answer to some of these bant decks that have been starting to see play more recently.

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Originally Posted by Valtrix

Next, what to run as a sideboard. I'm not really sure what to expect, besides the fact that it's a GP trial, so it seems like a fairly open meta. I really like the 6 graveyard hate for reanimator, and graveyard decks in general. Price is for lands, because I expect that will make a showing there. Grip is ubiquitous. So I guess the blasts I'm least sold on.

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Are you just planning to punt the ANT matchup or hope that they kill themselves with Tendrils? The maindeck seems slower than the more aggressive, less consistent versions of Zoo, and you have pretty much nothing in the sideboard to address storm either.

I haven't actually had to play against combo with zoo much, oddly enough. I would always run some kind of hate in the board for it though. However, I wonder how well do you think we could push the matchup up, even if we dedicate the sideboard slots? Do you think that we can push the win % up enough to justify even devoting any slots to combo?

And yes, the maindeck is slower than I usually tend to run, I think. One of my questions is if this mana-intensive slowness is going to be more of a detriment or not, because I honestly don't know. It's not as if it's "that" much slower, I think, but it is somewhat. My hope is that the cost of some speed will give more strength on the whole.