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Pdingo; I have probably done 100 games against MUD in playtesting and find it a hard matchup. I have detailed notes on what to that I can check tomorrow. I play a single Rebuild in the SB just for this matchup. Other than that some SB cards my help (AD, CoV) but the MVP so far has been Duress and Therapy. On the play you can blind Therapy a Chalice, on the draw Trinisphere. I know team Berlin SB very different from me in this matchup but there are different ways to Rome, or Lille.
yeah mud is probably one of the hardest;)
would be nice to see your notes. i board out some cantrips like preordain or try to by fast.
My SB when playing against MUD with a standard ANT list (1 of each Ad Nauseam, Past in Flames and Tendrils of Agony)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pdingo
-2 Sensei's Divining Top, -1 Preordain, -3 Duress
+3 Abrupt Decay, +2 Chain of Vapor, +1 Rebuild
As mentioned earlier, with CT name Chalice of the Void on the play (a turn 1 Chalice on 1 make things alot harder for us). Name Trinisphere on the draw (and hope they don't have CotV in hand and just misser the sol land).
You have Chain of Vapor for Lodestone Golem, Trinisphere and Witchbane Orb (out from the board)
You have Abrupt Decay for Chalice of the Void, Trinisphere and Relic of Progenitus (out from the board)
In addition to 2 Witchbane Orb and 2 Relic of Progenitus, it is also common for MUD to play 3 Mindbreak Trap in the board.
Ps. This conclusion was before Ugin was legal so builds may have changed some.
Why board out Duress over Therapy? I'd rather not blind name against MUD, since they have so many different lock pieces post-board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rokkastut
you should probably side out 1-2 ponder i think..
cantrips are bad..
i never side out duress^^
I played a list similar to Kai's to a top 8 record in a 50-man tournament (and a 3-1 in a small weekly, for whatever that's worth). Can confirm it's a strong list, as if a GP top 4 weren't enough proof.
List was as Kai's, but cut Ad Naus (to board) for Grim Tutor, Rain of Filth for Top (needed to preboard a card to fit enough cards in sideboard, this was the easiest cut). Sideboard cut a Decay, Dread of Night, and Empty for a Top, Ad Naus, and a Surgical (meta call). I used all of my board cards over the two tournaments, and it felt like there was both enough business and the right number of cards to bring in/out. Grim Tutor won me 3 games by just being another business spell - Ad Naus might have won, but GT was an assured kill, and I didn't have IT (or they were used to get mana).
As Kai mentioned, the Ad Naus is kind of marginal, very matchup dependent. Also people are more likely to have damage sources (creatures in play and Bolts) game 1. It was a fine board card, but not super exciting. The games over the two tournaments that I lost were more due to not drawing mana than not drawing business. The one game that it was more useful than Grim Tutor was against Miracles, where I didn't have any artifact mana, and my lands didn't work out to produce red - it was necessary to win off only black floating.
Quick matchup recap:
D&T 2-0
? 2-0
RUG Delver 2-0
ANT 2-1
ID to top 8
Omni 1-2 (very close games - G3 I bricked a Brainstorm, and he chained Digs into Forces and Show and Tells over the next several turns. If he didn't topdeck a Show and Tell (via Dig and Brainstorm), he was dead next turn.)
Omni 2-1 (same 75, different pilot. Seems like a close matchup)
ANT 2-1
Infect 2-0 (nice combo deck)
Miracles 1-2 (damnit I hate losing to lordofthepit :tongue:)
You may be correct, probably a matter of taste. From testing I know I the discard have to Ole played first turn, and then CotV on the play and Trini on the draw are very logical. In cases where you probe, you may also take Lodestone. And if you are lucky 2 for 1. (My arguments at least om m why I keep CT)Quote:
Originally Posted by saur
But as Pdingo says, maybe 1-2 Ponder may be better to side out and keep 7 discard.
@ rokkastut
i mean a removal spell is better than a cantrip in this match up
i think we have to be kp a fast hand.
@phazonmutant
nice to hear. i would never cut ad nauseam because its to good for me.
now you play the same list like me before with top and grim.
i think about 1 grim tutor sideboard. he's not always good but very strong against controll,
combodecks, mud and the mirror. ;)
2 PIF is not godsent 2015 tech from outerspace, it's played for years and at least 3 people in this forum alone arrived to it independently in different versions ... minor but rising (maybe) thanks to gp top 4 ... it's not that great against Bx startegiesQuote:
Originally Posted by laserstone
at 2 Pif, Grim most likely... I'm not sure about 2 PIF being better than Ad Nauseam against Grixis, postSB especiallyQuote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
100 is a lot vs such minor deck but you contradict yourself in this statement and boarding plan by SBing out Duress, also SDT makes more sense postSB than other cantrips because is not affected by taxing/CotVQuote:
Originally Posted by Rokkastut
those reports - nice read
My friend has the deck (I don't play online).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Hopefully I can go to Cooenhagen or Berlin a weekend to playtest before Lille, it would ve nice.
Another question for your guys: In terms of Kai's list, are 6 discards enough? I think 6 discards work totally fine if u expect tons of delver, but against miracle or even DNT and other combo, I may really want to see a discard in early game if I cannot go very fast. So is there a huge difference between seven and six?
I played that ever since Slosh told me to do that some two weeks after the card was legal. I 6:0ed some tourney with that setting, losing only three games for the whole day. Oh, the memories of early 2010's with their 4x Xantid Swarm, 4x Dark Confidant sideboards...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Martin, are you still visiting lgs on Thu? I might take a look some day in preparation for Prague Eternit.
I would say not huge. Past in flames is nice because it allows you to play through a counter spell. More discard is important in the combo mirror actually. Flusterstorm and Surgical in the board should help there.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
This. Trying to fit a second PIF in my standard list I'm unsure what to cut, a discard like Kai did, or a preordain (given that I also have a top, going to 1 top, 1 preordain). What do you guys suggest?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
Also, I would like to ask Kai: what were the match-ups when you boarded in your Flusterstorms? Other than the obvious OmniTell? :smile: Thanks a lot!
I don't know 6 is definitely possible if you want less and more cantrips, sometimes I feel like 6 is enough sometimes I want 8... therefore it's 7 for me¨Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinZ
2010 is too early, I wasn't on storm and even Pif wasn't printed back then, but I recall your 3-4x Pernicious Deed in REV 512 quite clearly... oh those funny days... btw. like 2 months ago I had the obv. the easiest 4:0 w 4DC+4XS ; ) ... yeah I'm still going there but with attendance split between 2 shops it's getting worse and worse I can't remember last time we were over 20, more off lower 1x now...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer
If you plan on repairing your roof by watching Storm :laugh: .. eternit is so generation W... but might June catch you in a mood for a comeback you have all my support and cards available..
usually there are 3 slots free - so it's SDT and Preordan for you which looks like the easiest cut, what's the 3rd? do you still have Ad Nauseam MD (if not LP is an option)? GT?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghiwo
Discard spells are the worst spells in stormdecks.
Have you ever drew more than 2 in a game ? You probably lost that one ;D
2 Past in Flames allow you to play only 6 discard spells because they have an built-in counter backup.
regarding Flusterstorm, I board it against:
Elves
Reanimator
Belcher
Tes
Tin Fins
Grixis Delver
Bug Delver
Nic Fit
Jund
Pox
Ant
Sneakshow
Omnitell
High Tide
Dredge
In terms of Grixis, I assume flusterstorm may suck againt their therapy and I hate over-boarding, but obviously I am not sure here. Kai, would u like to share more about post-game against grixis?Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Also I agree with you and others about the number of discards, drawing too many without brainstorm often means game loss. But considering some specific mu like miracle, which is huge now in the meta all over the world and where u really want to see one or even two in very early game, going down to 6 may make me feel a little dangerous.
Another thing is I found u rarely talk about grim tutor（very probably I miss the former discussion here）, what do u feel about this card right now? would u like to make a cut in the future, maybe?
Sorry for so many questions.
early 2010's =/= 2010 :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Good job with the 8 dudes plan. Pity the drop in numbers, but for me this was never crucial, as long as play interesting games with ppl I like.
It surprises me that I see those decklist with several cmc4 cards plus AdN, that's soemthing what I never understood and the most what I did in these dpt. was 2 PiF, ToA, AdN, definitely not double ToA (and even additional GT or EtW). What am I missing?
http://media.novinky.cz/122/221229-original1-36anu.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Nah, no comeback, just h2h selling...
Come on. Discard isn't only meant to battle opposing counters, but for delaying opposing combos and having to dig for discard spells is backbreaking in the combo mirror especially if you're not the fastest combodeck in the grid. ANTs strength as the controldeck in these matchups came from chaining discard-spells until Cabal Ritual and PIF can make up for the spent cards and win the game. I still don't know why Flusterstorm should be any better than additional discard against Storm, S&T, BUG, Belcher, Elves, etc. It's a one-trick pony which also messes with your hellbent unlike discard.Quote:
Originally Posted by sawatarix
Hi!!!
My name is Manuel Gómez, I'm from Barcelona (Spain) and I play Nauseam since a lot of time.
I made good results playing this deck, in the last Gp of Paris, and winning lots of Regional Leagues:
http://www.tcdecks.net/busqueda.php?...ide=&strict=on
This weekend I won the LCL, a tournament with 70-110 players. This time were 75 players.
I speak with some of you for facebook, I read The Source for years. I think that would be interesting to share knowledge.
ˇAlso I like it to pimp my deck!
This is my last decklist. With that I won the last LCL
4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Duress
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
SB:
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Dread of Night
2 Chain of Vapor
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Xantid Swarm
2 Surgical Extraction