It is good if you know your meta has a lot of preboard hate, otherwise, I think just being faster (ie. no dazes) is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_D
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It is good if you know your meta has a lot of preboard hate, otherwise, I think just being faster (ie. no dazes) is better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_D
I think you're right to do that. If you've got a lot of super-fast lockout decks to deal with, you might want to keep it in the main, but I feel like needing to wait a couple of turns to seal the game is dangerous, and Empty's something that people grow to expect if you're running it in the maindeck. One of its major strengths is that you can pull it out of nowhere when people are expecting you to cast Past in Flames or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
There aren't a ton of matchups in which I bring it in universally, but I feel like hatebear/Chalice games pretty much require it. As soon as any piece of hate comes down, even if we have the means to beat it with removal-plus-Tendrils, we've got a really tight window in which to make that happen (i.e., before either a second hatebear comes down or an Eldrazi guy just flattens us), and oftentimes 12 Goblins will be enough. I don't know that it's worth it to have it in the maindeck, though, because I've found that it often gums up our plays when it really would be better to have a Past in Flames.
If you've got some testing information, I'd really like to hear it!
I think exactly the same, your points are the ones that tell me to put empty main. 2 big issues keep me far from that:
1) miracle: terminus is a dead card normally, I don't really want to give them the possibility to use it.
2) D&T: you need to put a lot of goblin as soon as possible. Batterskull is an huge problem. But also a board with mom, thalia/stonforge, prelate/crusader/brimaz is a lock (if you go all in with goblins they tend to play all the creatures they have, they use their ports/wasteland to produce mana, not to lock you down).
Nauseam is the only alternative plan to tutor chain or pif in my opinion, also as a faster plan. That's why I wanna try to improve this plan and its speed, using rain of filth (on turn 2 is +1 storm +1 mana, getting better on the next turn) and chrome mox. I'm a little scared about the big amount of "mana" I have with this list, that's why I think I'll go down to 14 lands......I don't know, just brainstorming.
Hi again!
After two years without playing magic (no time, no money) i've bought our deck for mtgo and during the last 2 weeks and a half i've been playing 2 tournaments every day more or less. I've done three 5-0, twelve 4-1, eight 3-2 and only eight bad results. I'm running the deck with AdN main, 2 preordain, 6 discard spells, 2 Dark Petition and 15 lands. Only 1 PiF, no EtW in maindeck, no rain of filth, no SDT. In SB i'm running 4 Abrupt Decay, 2 Hurkyl's Recall, 2 Tormod's Crypt (my favourite tool against BR Reanimator which is quite porpular online), 2 SDT (Only against miracles or very slow decks, Landstill), 2 Massacre, 1 Chain of Vapor, 1 Empty the Warrens (against Grixis, UR Delver and Eldrazis and D&T, where the inclusion of 4 decays and massacres/recalls make AdN a bad choice) 1 City of Solitude.
Complete list here: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/510132#online
Among all the things i could say about the experience of these weeks the most important one is that i've found in +4 Decay +2 Hurkyl +1 Chain +1 EtW (-1 AdN -3 therapy -1 Duress -2 Preordain -1 Dark Petition) the way to beat eldrazis in 55-60% of the games, a great percentage considering the amount of hate they have. Also, i know that playing 2 Dark Petition sounds weird, but i'm quite happy with them. I never have problems to find business and AdN is good anyways if i play it carefully.
I'll keep posting my results!
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...sts-2016-11-27
Did anybody go to the GP?
Apparently double Lost Legacy is a thing that can happen.
I was at the GP and so were Rodrigo and Kai. Kai was on Miracles though. I was on Lands.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...7610538512.png
I feel this will have some good matchups for storm against certain decks.
So you'd have to pay the 4 mana up front and 5 with Thalia tax, which means you'd likely have to cast a ritual first, which means a lot of mana. Where would -3 help? Maybe Leovold or possibly more likely to get Mentor and tokens but this doesn't seem like a winning plan against Miracles. The obvious comparison is Massacre. What MU were you thinking? Also to capitalize on the mana investment, you'd want to cast something at 3cmc, which is in short supply with the exception of GT.
I was at Gp chiba with same decklist as prague.
8-1 day 1
2-4 day 2 which is a disaster...
That where my matchup and some notes:
Bye
Bye
Ur delver 2-0 fow ponder & preordain
Taxes 0-2 bs beats. No hate. No bussiness
Eldrazi 2-0 chalice for 1 pay 3
Shardless 2-1
Bant blade 2-0
Eldrazi 2-1
Eurekatell 2-0 with mentor and strix
Eldrazi 1-2
Grixis delver 2-1 no bussines/ no discard
Eldrazi 1-2
Eldrazi 2-1
Miracles 2-0
Wg taxes 1-2 hierarchs + 4 prelate. G3 surgical for my t1 kill
ScottW. I misread the card thinking it was an instant speed massacre. Which would be nice, but I feel it would be good against Grix Delver and could be against Miracles. Both of which are heavy in my LGS meta. Last IQ I played in I went 4-2 only losing the mirror and Grix Delver. Massacre only helps against Miracles but has nothing for YPZ and those tokens. With this it would allow a main phase wipe with a free cantrip or CR to build up for going off. But that's what I had in mind. I also have found that Kozilek's Return is great for an end of turn clearing. I did it to D&T when they had Mom, Thalia, and 2 Revokers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
This set of matchups would put me on tilt - good on you for coming out above 50% on them.
I agree!Quote:
Originally Posted by taconaut
@Togores,
I watched you GP prep Twitch stream and really enjoyed the games. I was particularly interested in seeing how you sideboard and hearing your thoughts on this. For instance, you mentioned a reconfigured SB for Miracles players who may anticipate our usual boarding plan. Really neat stuff! It would be great if you could slow down just a bit when you go to sideboard. I had to re-watch the stream to catch a few of these illuminating moments.
Thanks!
You have to plan always ahead. Thats the key to success.
Also I know its harder to see when sideboarding you can ask in the chat and I will try to answer. Also there is always the replay. Or just make screenshots.
You're a brave man for bringing storm into that meta. Should've just chickened them out every time a chalice/hate piece resolved.
Speaking of Eldrazi, and the prospect of facing it all the way through a GP, What are everyone's current sideboard plans for beating it? I'm still settling on a deck for GP Louisville, and while I'm obviously quite aware that this is a terrible deck to play right now, I'm bored enough by the decks that are the "right" option that I'm still considering playing it anyway.
I'm currently testing a sideboard plan that involves bringing in Chrome Moxes and Empty on the play, and no decays or grips of any sort, and only keeping a hand that can either strip a lock piece or combo on turn 1. It's . . . underwhelming. But then again, so is trying to abrupt decay Thorns of Amethyst. Anyone have any better ideas?
I have been having some success lately with this list:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
8-blue fetchlands
2-Underground Sea
1-Volcanic Island
1-Tropical Island
1-Island
1-Swamp
4-Lotus Petal
4-Lion's Eye Diamond
1-Chrome Mox
4-Dark Ritual
4-Cabal Ritual
4-Gitaxian Probe
4-Brainstorm
4-Ponder
2-Preordain
4-infernal Tutor
2-Dark Petition
1-Past in Flames
1-Ad Nauseum
1-Tendrils of Agony
3-Duress
3-Cabal Therapy
SB:
3-Abrupt Decay
3-Serenity
2-Xantid Swarm
1-Empty the Warrens
1-Tendrils of Agony
1-Chrome Mox
1-Chain of Vapor
2-Disfigure
1-Tundra
Versus Eldrazi: -3 discard, -2 Preordain, -1 Dark Petition. +1 Empty the Warrens, +1 Chrome Mox, +1 Tundra, +3 Serenity.
It isn't perfect, and Eldrazi is still not a great matchup by any means, but I have noticed my win percentage noticeably higher than it used to be.
An early Serenity on the board has useful applications against decks like Miracles as well. This has also won me a few games recently...
I'll have to play around with that. I think the chrome mox main is worth testing and I haven't done that yet.
An early Serenity only buys you one turn where they can't play a counterbalance, and then they just play it the next turn though. Is that really worth it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Miscanthus
I admit it doesn't sound like much, but in my experience so far, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
This window is usually around turn three or four, which is usually plenty of time to have assembled a winning hand for the turn.
A key factor so far has been that it also forces them to activate (or lose) their Sensei's Divining Top that they may have on the board. This deprives of their "floating counterspell" shenanigans for that window also.
I still don't understand how chrome mox is a good solution against eldrazi. IF you are on the play and IF you have them in your opening hand ok, probably you have a fast combo.......but with thorn in play, is a +1storm -2 cards +0mana. Is being super fast the solution to eldrazi? We are far from a belcher/all spells deck, I don't think we can increase our chance to combo off on turn 1 just adding 2-3 cards in the sideboard.
IN THEORY against eldrazi 4 hurkyl and 4 Ceremonious Rejection are "enoough": easy blue mana, cheap cost, very effective. Rejection can also stop the race. But we don't have 30 slots as sideboard, so I still don't have a good plan in mind :laugh:
I have found so far that being super fast is indeed the best solution (so far) to Eldrazi (and generally good against other permanent based hate decks such as Death and Taxes, etc.). Barring our own very occasional turn-one-tendrils-for-twenty hands, this generally means casting Empty the Warrens or Ad Nauseam as soon as possible (TES style). This is where Chrome Mox shines, as even adding two or three does increase your chances of doing this successfully on turn one ( this is not to say that it "always" happens, but it does occur significantly more often than otherwise).Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
When going the Empty the Warrens route, casting a Chrome Mox without imprint can be good just to increase your goblin count. This is important, because casting an early horde of even 8 - 10 goblins can often be enough.
When going the Ad Nauseam route, I actually prefer not to see Chrome Mox in my opening hand, as revealing it to Ad Nauseam greatly increases its chance of success (as casting Ad Nauseum with zero mana floating becomes a somewhat less risky proposition).
Ultimately we are not so much trying to be like Belcher or All Spells. Rather, we are trying to take a page out of the TES playbook.
When facing Eldrazi, I usually look to see if I have either a turn one combo route (such as an Ad Nauseam or Empty the Warrens line mentioned above), or some effective disruption (such as Serenity, discard when on the play, etc.). If I don't have these I seriously consider mulling.
Can't find those videos on Rodrigo's twitch page? Did you remove them? :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottW
Should be in past broadcasts.
Also it can be that already the days passed to twitch erase them.
Today in that huge shop called Hareruya I played against a guy on miracles.
Defeated him g1 and then also all the bunch of sb games we played. Also he didnt knew the grinding sb aproach. Which is good.
Also I won the gp round 2-0 and keep just slaming most og the mirackes players I face. Now the problem is beat thos eldrazi and white decks.
Finally got around to writing my Storm primer, which is the first one to cover a specific list I have written since 2013. Featuring both Ad Nauseam Tendrils and Grinding Station:
https://theweeklywars.wordpress.com/...-storm-primer/
Sadly I don't see anything in past broadcasts at all :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Togores
sooooo guys, I need you feedback about this list I'm gonna try in a big tournament in Italy next days.
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Underground Sea
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Past in Flames
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Duress
4 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
1 Preordain
1 Thoughtseize
1 Chrome Mox
1 Rain of Filth
1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Echoing Truth
SB: 1 Massacre
SB: 3 Dark Confidant
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Sensei's Divining Top
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
my fears are eldrazi, miracle, and D&T, I expect TONS of them. That's why 7 discards (1 thoughtseize for creatures), mox, rain of filth, I want to generate fast mana as soon as possible and hopefully combo off soon. I used to play 2 pif MD, I think the actual meta doesn't require 2 of them. Confidant is HUGE against miracle, nice against bug also. I decided to split the bouncer in 3 different options to be more versatile, everyone has pros and cons.
Nice primer Jonathan, thanks !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
I've been really happy with Confidant vs Miracles lately. Much, much happier than in the grinding station approach. Pressuring them with things they have to deal with has proven much more effective than trying to sit back and beat them at the long game. That said, I found my win percentage really does go noticeably down once they start boarding for Confidant. My go-to miracles opponent was originally leaving in 1 Terminus, 1 EE, and 1 Kozilek's Return to deal with creatures post board, and I was significantly ahead on win percentage. When he traded the terminus for 3 StPs, I went back to around 50%. This is with 3 confidants coming in. To combat this, I'm planning to play some Xantid Swarms as well and try to overload the StPs, but obviously this could have it's own problems with sweepers. Let's just say it's a delicate balance the storm player can come out ahead on, but you're going to have to read your opponent right.
I'm actually not bringing in confidant against BUG, since between liliana and Golgari Charm they've got a lot of answers to him, and I don't think he's as necessary as he is vs Miracles.
The only other thought I'd have is that I would play the 4th Therapy and cut a duress if you want the thoughtseize. 4 Therapy is where it's at, especially if you're afraid of creatures. Trimming a therapy for a thoughtseize isn't making a huge difference, while trimming a duress for one is.
I think you are right. Also because with emtpy MD, therapy from the graveyard it's a thing. Thanks for the suggestion!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Death and Taxes, Miracle and Eldrazi will be the most played deck and I think that they're the worst matchup for ANT. Expecially Eldrazi with Chalice, Thorn and Thoughtknot Seer that's why this is not the best moment to play this deck, though I really love it. Anyway I think your decklist it's pretty good with good choiches, you just need good pairings and nice draws! ;) Good luck for your tournament! You will really need it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Morden
Yeah I don't think there's really an argument to be made that Storm is the right deck to play right now. It's objectively bad at the moment. But it's a fun deck to play and sometimes that's enough.
It's very possible I'm gonna play it in Louisville because I'm a better storm player than I am of anything else that is good right now. I could play Delver Mirrors all day, which sounds kind of miserable, or I could just try to kill some people on turn 1.
I agree with you, I would play Storm too but just because I love it and I know it very well. I think that nowadays RB Reanimator is the "new Ant"...has free turn 1 kills and has better eldrazi and miracle matchup. Anyway I hope you will "tendrils 'em all!" ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Why are people afraid of Death & Taxes? It by far the deck Storm can most easily adapt to.
I'm not, I'd wish I'll face only D&T!! I was just pointing out that the meta here has a big percentage of D&T. My list is made mainly to fight eldrazi and miracle, D&T is not a big menace, that's why only 1 massacre and no dread or specific hate. Empty MD is there only because I have no space in SB...... XD..... it could a dark petition, but let's try to have empty maindeck, maybe it's useful in some circumstances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
Exactly. It's not D&T itself, it's that I used to have to face D&T a few times a tournament as my bad matchup, and now it's one of my good ones because they can't interact with me at all until turn 2.
Until they surgical your turn 1 kill. That happened my last round of the GP fighting for cash :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Oh great, another thing to worry about :P
Stupid RB Reanimator, screwing things up for me everywhere.
hi, im goin to play a tournament in a couple of days, could someone give me (with gp prague list) advices of how to sideboard? or at least tell me in which page of this thread can i find this info? thank you :D
I just have problems with its consistency. It's like if I don't throw down and combo on T1-T2, they just keep playing hatebear after hatebear and I can't break through. I've brought back a singleton Massacre just because it's the only way I know to beat T1 Mom, T2 Thalia, T3 Other Thalia + Canonist/whatever. Try as I might, I can't get my T1-2s high enough to feel like I've really got a good shot at the matchup. (My postboard plan runs an Empty, a PiF, an Ad Nauseam, a Massacre, a Disfigure, two Chains of Vapor, and a Chrome Mox.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
I think it's worth mentioning that this wasn't a problem six months ago. Back then they actually had to find lock-pieces; now, they're more likely to have several of them than none of them.
With that said, I'm not using Daze, which might be the best thing we've got. Not sure. I just don't like running countermagic in a deck that tries to empty its hand.
By the way, thanks for the primer! Good work!
Yeah, the problem is the massacre plan is fucking terrible against T1 Plains + Vial, T2 Karakas + Thalia. Even worse if they play the vial off of not plains. But once they've got thalia+karakas+vial on 2, dread of night or sulfur elemental or something similar is the only thing that saves you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Deuce
They've got a ton of different ways to fuck you, and since its' all just 4of's with no early filtering, your sideboarding is at the mercy of their draws. Awkward place to be. You can lose with massacre against a hand Dread would've killed, and vice versa.