Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Target permanent you control gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
Fateful hour — If you have 5 or less life, instead you and each permanent you control gain protection from the color of your choice until end of turn.
Against tendrills combo when they storm 11 and the play tendrils of agony you can let the storm counts resolve untill you are at 5 or less life and then play faith s shield so that YOU get protection from black and not die. Am i misunderstanding something? same thing against burn spells for the win.
I did a little playtesting with white splash since the thing that concerns me the most is the manabase. From this preliminary testing it seemed not a big problem anyway: I play 3 waste, 4 ports, 4 caverns and 2 plateau. The opponent seemed to prefer wasting me either cavern or ports so having dual lands did not seem a big deal. Never met price of progress though.
Tons more of paytesting is needed
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
@BigBopper: I actually don t think that that swords to plowshares is good enough to MD. Sure it is the best removal in the format but goblins don t need additional or better non goblin removal. Protection instead seems like something this tribe misses. I ll give mom a shot but you cannot go T1 lackey, T2 protection - connect and that is a big deal with the way the deck works. but I ll give it a try.
Has anybody tested mom?
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
I played in another tournament last night. It was a bit of a disaster and definitely not my best showing. The thing about bad nights though is that they give you a lot to think about. When you can pinpoint what went wrong it helps you avoid those pitfalls in the future.
The List
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
12 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Warchief
2 Warren Instigator
2 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg Fanatic
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Pyrokinesis
Sideboard
4 Mindbreak Trap
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Zurn Orb
2 Anarchy
I played this list to 4-0 last week. This week I went 0-2 and dropped. Here's how it went down...
R1 RUG Threshold
G1 I'm on the play. We both mulligan to 6. I keep a hand of
Cavern
Mountain
Lackey
Lackey
Cheiftain
Mogg Fanatic
... seems like a great hand, right? Well, it actually wasn't.
I resolve the Lackey off Cavern. My opponent plays a Delver. I make my first pointless mistake of the game and cast my spells in the wrong order. I could have played Vial off Mountain, then Fanatic off Cavern. Instead I played Fanatic off Cavern, sac'd the fanatic to burn off the unflipped Delver, connected with Lackey, cheated Chieftain into play, then cast Aether Vial. Aether Vial got dazed. There was no reason for me to not play around Daze. I could have cast the Vial off of Mountain, then played Fanatic off of Cavern. By waiting until after combat to play the Vial I also let my opponent know that I didn't have any bombs to play, so a late game Vial might actually be a winner. He replayed his land his second turn and passed. I played another lackey and attacked for 6 but had absolutely nothing to cheat into play. My opponent brainstormed EOT, then on his turn played a land and a Goyf. I drew a Sharpshooter but didn't have the mana to hardcast it, so I attacked into the Goyf with both Lackeys. He blocked 1, and the other cheated Sharpshooter into play. This was a bad play on my part because the Sharpshooter couldn't kill the Goyf post combat. Goyf was a 4/5 (land, creature, instant, artifact) so with only 2 damage on him from the Lackey the Sharpshooter couldn't kill him anyway. I just should have held back that turn and hardcast the Shaprshooter down the line. Anyway, I pass the turn and he untaps and plays another land and Goyf, and attacks me with the other Goyf. I don't exactly remember what happened from here on out, but he attacked with both goyf and I blocked with my team, then activated Sharpshooter to finish off the goyfs but my last untap trigger ended with a Stifle. I actually would like to revisit this turn because my opponent might have misplaced the stifle on the untap trigger and I might have forgotten an untap trigger. Hard to say a day later. Anywho, with a tapped down sharpshooter and a cleared board the game was his.
I sided in some REBs and Relic of Progenitus, shaving off some utility goblins.
G2 I kep a hand similar to g1. This one was better though because it had Vial, Instigator. I cast a T1 Vial that met a Force. he played a T1 Delver. I cast a T2 Warren Instigator. He played a T2 Brainstorm in response to his Delver trigger, revealed a Brainstorm, flipped Delver, swung for 3, and cast a Nimble Mongoose. I attacked into Mongoose. He blocked. I played a Lackey. He played another Mongoose and attacked with Delver. I attacked again. Winstigator ate the Mongoose, lackey cheated a Warchief into play. Not the kind of power play I was hoping for. Just like in game 1 I found myslef in great board position but with nothing in hand to back it up. It doesn't really matter if Lackey is connecting when you have nothing broken to cheat in with it. My opponent played another Delver and attacked with the other. I attacked with everything and he let everything through (Winstigator, lackey, Warchief). I Cycled a Gempalm to kill off one of the Delvers and hopefully draw me into something relevant. He stifled the damage and the draw was a blank. I Wasteland his lone red source. Next turn he reveals a Bolt, flips Delver, and attacks for 6, putting me at 5. I rip a SGC, cheat it into play in combat, but he Stifles the enter play token generating trigger and i'm dead on the board.
0-1, 0-2
I lost these games for an obvious reason: I didn't have the hand to capitalize on the board position. Goblins needs to use its stronger board position to cheat in cards that give us card advantage. Matron, Ringleader, and SGC are hugely important because they allow you to overwhelm your opponent and keep your hand stocked so you can keep cheating thing into play. When you can't draw those three cards the Mid-game becomes a wash and you start losing to the better cards your opponents play.This is what happens when you don't play Brainstorm. Due to the need for threat density we can't really run Top or cards like that. Are there any other decent CA giving Goblins?
R2 BUW Tokens
This build ran Bitterblossom, Lingering Souls, that Instant for BW that gives their guys +1/+1 and yours -1/-1, Snapcaster, SFM, batterskull.
G1 I was on the play and mulled to 5. The five had 2 lands and a Matron so I figured it was better than going to 4. I led with a Mogg Fanatic. He Cabal therapied me, blanking. T2 I attacked and played a land and passed. T2 he played Bitterblossom. T3 I cast matron, grabbing Ringleader. T3 he made a Faerie, sacked it to flashback CT naming Ringleader. Obviously. Hrmf. T4 i had 3 lands and the option of casting Vial or Cheiftain. For some terrible, idiotic, short-sighted reason I cast Cheiftain. This was patently wrong. Here's why. My opponent was way ahead on board position. Chieftain + Matron wasn't going to beat an active bitterblossom. I also started the game behind due to the mull to 5. I needed to play the long game (Vial), not the short game (Cheiftain). It was a bad tactic that did not match with my overall strategy that game. I cast the Vial the following turn instead, and what do you know!: He gets a Jitte off of Stoneforge. I'm able to build up counters on Vial while using spot removal to keep Jitte from getting counters. When Vial is at 3 I have 2 Pyrokineses in hand and Chieftain and Ringleader in hand also. He attaches Jitte to a token and attacks. i cast Pyro off Cheiftain to burn out his horde. He responds with a Zealous Persecution. I have no choice but to pitch Ringleader to cast the 2nd Pyro. Remember, Vial was on 3. Had I played for the long game and cast Vial instead of Chieftain 4 turns ago I would have a Vial at 4, and I could have vialed in Ringleader, drawn a few cards, and used one of those to pitch to Pyro. But I made a bad play 4 turns earlier and it came back to bite me in the ass. I scooped once Jitte got active and it was clear I wasn't gonna win this one.
G2 I got super duper greedy and kept a hand with Fanatic, Instigator, a bunch of 3 and 4 drops, and a Cavern of Souls as my only land. I didn't rip a land and lost horribly. I'm a greedy idiot.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Hey, it seemed to be there are a few people, who are scared of swords to plowshares. Does anyone tested Goblin Wizard these days? He gives our guys protection and is a vial with feet. Of course he isn't that cheap, but can be tutored and could be inclueded without splash.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Pretty sure Goblin Wizard is tied with Wort, Boggart Auntie as jrw's favorite 4-drop...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
BWA-HA!
You know me so well.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
no love for goblin pyromancer?
jokes aside, I feel like jrw's build is really good for the current metagame. Goblins is a more skill intensive deck than people give it credit for, and his quick turnaround from 4-0 to 0-2 due to bad earlygame decisions underlines that.
If i were you jrw i'd stay on and play to get more experience.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Hello, i'm new here, but i'm a old gobbo player.
Now i am testing our new version, withoutpiledriver.deck .
To me, the new metagame r these decks:
Aggro:
Death and Taxes (with Thalia)
GWr Maverick
UR Delver
Combo:
Dredge (with Fainthless looting)
Hive Mind
Reanimate
Sneak Atack
(couse it all have counter in main deck and storms r weak to thalia)
Control:
Aggro Loam
Junk (the rock)
Esperblade (couse its better than UW stoneblade)
RUG Delver
Nic Fit (awsome deck)
I build my gobbo and my Sb, to beat this new metagame. Let me show my build:
New Gobbos
Creatures:
4 - Goblin Lackey
4 - Warren Instigator
2 - Stingscourger
4 - Goblin Chieftain
4 - Goblin Matron
3 - Gempalm Incinerator
4 - Goblin Ringleader
2 - Tuktuk Scraper
1 - Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
2 - Siege-Gang Commander
Other:
4 - Aether Vial
3 - Tarfire
2 - Pyrokinesis
Lands:
4 - Wasteland
3 - Arid Mesa
3 - Scalding Tarn
3 - Cavern of Soul
8 - Mountain
Sideboard:
3 - Red Elemental Blast (Blue it's a stupid color)
4 - Thorn of Amethyst (eightlesscreatures.deck)
2 - Pithing Needle (well... Nic Fit, GW, Sneak Atack, Aggro Loam, Stoneblades...)
3 - Surgical Extraction (Against Reanimates, Punishing Fire, Life From the Loam and Dredge - Ill goten gains or past inflames too!!- It isnt a grave hate!!!)
2 - Relic of Progenitus (Kills Goyf!!, Rug, Aggro Loam, Reliquary and... Grave hate.)
1 - Lightning Crafter (My unique aggro hate. I hav on main Pirokynesis, tarfires, gempals and Stings... i'm not worried abouth aggro decks)
I really like too much this SB and new list, cavern of souls improve my match against counter combos, I can use thorn to slow then and make my battlefield bigger with 8 lackeys.
Warren kiki jiki (matron or ringleader), r owning my opp.
I won a 104-players champ on brazil (the 2° bigger champ in 2011) and i love play with gobbos.
(Sorry for my bad english) :tongue:
Cya
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ace/Homebrew
*thumbs up*...but that was not my question.
Does anyone play or test it at the moment? Sure, it doesn't do neither anything against red removal nor against Jitte or something else. But maybe it will be a good card.
I'm not gonna play it. My list at the Moment is:
[Lands]
2 Badlands
4 Wastelands
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
6 Mountain
[Stuff]
3 Commander
4 Ringleader
1 Sharpshooter
3 Incinerator
4 Matron
4 Ghieftain
2 Warchief
1 Piledriver
2 War Marshal
1 Stingscourger
4 Lackey
4 Vial
2 Pyrokinesis
4 Tarfire
[Sideboard]
2 Chalice of the Void
4 Leyline of the Voild
1 Goblin King
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Anarchy
2 Virtue's Ruin
2 Pyrokinesis
Mainboard: I don't know if I will play 3 or 4 Tarfire and how many Commander I have to play. Both cards are very strong but without winstigator, the SGC are not as good as they could be. But if I cut 1 SGC and/or 1 Tarfire, what would I play? Maybe something like Warchief/Piledriver/Marshal
But if I expect an aggrometa in which I could need the Marshals, I even could play the fourth Tarfire, don't I?
Maybe I only cut 1 SGC for an additional Piledriver.
For the next tournament (tomorrow) I expect many aggro and aggrocontrol decks and so much kombo, so Leyline and Chalice have to make it.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pee-Dee-2
*thumbs up*...but that was not my question.
I'm not gonna play it.
That would be my advice =)
He's got great art, and he's from the Dark... but his mana cost is too high to for him to be effective as protection from Swords.
@Magic_Sharingan - Congrats on the big win!
If you are already playing both Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker and Lightning Crafter, you can 'combo off' if you also play Skirk Prospector. I've never done it in a tournament but that's mostly because I don't like Lightning Crafter...
Works like this ==> have Kiki and Skirk Prospector in play with any other goblin. Play Lightning Crafter championing "any other". Tap Kiki to make a copy of Lightning crafter, championing Kiki. Tap you hasty Crafter token to deal 3 to the opponent's face. Sac the Crafter token using Prospector's ability and add 1 R to your pool. This returns Kiki untapped allowing you to copy the Crafter and so on and so on...
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
ran this list at a tournament just now
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
12 Mountain
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Chieftain
3 Goblin Warchief
2 Warren Instigator
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg Fanatic
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
2 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Pyrokinesis
Sideboard
2 Anarchy
3 Red elemental blast
1 Stingscourger
4 Mindbreak trap
2 Tormod crypt
3 Chalice of the void
Round 1: Delver RUG
G1
I won the roll
T1 mountain -> lackey -> eats a force of will pitching stifle
He plays delver of secrets off volcanic island
T2 mountain -> Aether vial resolves
He casts brainstorm during his upkeep, representing landscrew. Flips Delver by revealing ponder, swings with the insect and passes without playing a land.
T3 tick up vial. wasteland on volcanic island.
He has no land and swings again, I EOT vial in lackey.
T4, cavern of souls -> tick up vial, goblin chieftain, hardcast piledriver, swing with lackey, chieftain, and piledriver for big damage -> lackey trigger brings in ringleader.
He scoops.
(win)
G2
I basically wasteland his tropical island on t3. He proceeds to be stuck on 2 wastelands. My horde has no problem bashing through the nimble mongeese that he had already cast.
(win)
2-0 win
Round 2: Maverick
G1
I play a t1 lackey. He plays a t1 mom. I use a pyrokinesis on it, connect with lackey, and get a chieftain in. I keep applying pressure. The turning point came when I pyrokinesis away a gaddock teeg and a dryad arbor and swing for the win. As we were shuffling for G2, he realised that pyrokinesis can't be played through gaddock teeg, but as nobody realised earlier, I had the win. It sucks to be in his shoes though.
(win)
G2
t1 he has mom, lucky I answer it with a t1 fanatic. This was a truly grindy game, at one point he had knight of the reliquary, fauna shaman, and noble hierarch while I had lackey, siege gang commander and 3 goblin tokens. However, he could not be too aggressive as I had a full grip (because I was stuck on 1 land, I got my SGC via a lackey swing but could not capitalize). That changed when he topdecked a Jitte.
(lose)
G3
t1 i drop my lackey, he answers with gut shot!!!!!!!! (this is TROLLING!!!) This set the tone for another grindy game. At one point the board is full of stuff but I didn't see any matron or my sharpshooter (which I was looking to help me push through). Eventually I topdecked anarchy and that settled the game.
(win)
2-1 win
Round 3: Maverick (a unique take with ulvenwald tracker)
Because of how the other matches were going, we ID-ed this round. We played it out for fun anyway.
G1
he won the roll and led with land -> green sun zenith -> dryad arbor, then represented a mana screw when he didn't lay land for turn 2. So I tried to attack his manabase. He topdecks land like a boss while I start missing my land drops. Eventually he sticks a....hold your breath...Ulvenwald tracker. Following up with a Knight of the Reliquary. then proceeds to "fight" with every goblin i play. I don't play standard so I had to read Ulvenwald tracker at least twice. Anyway that bugger won him the game.
G2
goblin sharpshooter won this one. As he had the tracker in play (without KotR), it was necessary to ensure either 1) he had no 1G mana open or 2) I have a lord in play to grant goblins haste before I play the sharpshooter in my hand. Eventually I got out an active sharpshooter. Then I had to do this trick which he graciously pointed out (I didn't see it)
Basically he had Ulvenwald tracker, dryad arbor and qasali pridemage in play. I had goblin sharpshooter and wasteland in play. Can anybody see how I can wipe his board?
Answer: Shoot tracker, killing it, untap, shoot pridemage for 1 damage, wasteland dryad arbor, untap, deal 1 more damage to pridemage, killing it, then untap.
That was it.
We played more games after that but I can't remember them we just waited until the round ended.
Round 4: Combo elves
I was paired up so he conceded to me in exchange for some of my winnings because we would both finish in the money. There will be no playoffs. So as it was a 13 man tournament, and the entry fee was $10 and we both ended in top4, each of the top4 players got $32.50, and I gave him $12.50 for the trouble. So I earn $10 for my troubles (paid $10 for entry and got back $20) which is good enough for dinner tonight.
Had I played this out, I doubt I'd do well. G1 is almost an autolose unless sharpshooter shows up. G2 and 3 would rely on my SB.
Thoughts:
RUG - they play a denial and tempo game but we can play that game too and our 'tempo' is too fast for them. Postboard REBs really troll them bad.
Maverick - extremely grindy matchup as with all creature deck vs creature deck match. ringleaders are the catalyst for us to pull ahead in mid-late game due to all the card advantage. They pull ahead early through mana acceleration but if we can survive and draw them into a midgame boardstall, we have a better chance of winning the long game as they have no CA engine while we have ringleader. Make sure you have an immediate answer to mom, once she gets online thats almost game over. Even if you're not able to force damage true, if this is G2 or 3 and you sideboarded anarchy in, just wait for it and plague wind him.
Oh one last word, it helped that my round 2 opponent was unlucky and didn't draw any swords to plowshares :)
P.S. this is almost like for like with jrw's list. I strongly recommend his list, it is extremely strong.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
movingtonewao
Round 1: Delver RUG
G1
I won the roll
T1 mountain -> lackey -> eats a force of will pitching stifle
He plays delver of secrets off volcanic island
T2 mountain -> Aether vial resolves
He casts brainstorm during his upkeep, representing landscrew. Flips Delver by revealing ponder, swings with the insect and passes without playing a land.
T3 tick up vial. wasteland on volcanic island.
He has no land and swings again, I EOT vial in lackey.
T4, cavern of souls -> tick up vial, goblin chieftain, hardcast piledriver, swing with lackey, chieftain, and piledriver for big damage -> lackey trigger brings in ringleader.
He scoops.
(win)
Congrats on the finish, and well played.
Only thing I'd recommend is: T3, when you Wastelanded the Volcanic on the wuoted game, you should have Wastelanded it on their upkeep. Why is that: If they have Stifle, you eat 1 mana from their turn. I mean, if they Stifle Waste on your turn, untap and draw a land, he could have played a Goyf, or cantripped and played a bolt or something. If you use it on their upkeep, you tie their mana.
Also, Braintorm on upkeep don't represent manascrew. Just that they want to flip Delver. Imo, it was a bad play on his part, since he was actually mana screwed, and main phase BS would be better at looking for lands.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
Congrats on the finish, and well played.
Only thing I'd recommend is: T3, when you Wastelanded the Volcanic on the wuoted game, you should have Wastelanded it on their upkeep. Why is that: If they have Stifle, you eat 1 mana from their turn. I mean, if they Stifle Waste on your turn, untap and draw a land, he could have played a Goyf, or cantripped and played a bolt or something. If you use it on their upkeep, you tie their mana.
Also, Braintorm on upkeep don't represent manascrew. Just that they want to flip Delver. Imo, it was a bad play on his part, since he was actually mana screwed, and main phase BS would be better at looking for lands.
I think you misread what he wrote. The Volcanic was tapped when he Wasted it because it was used to cast a Brainstorm and flip Delver in his opponent's upkeep. his opponent then missed his land drop for turn, leaving him with a board of flipped delver and tapped Volcanic. So it was absolutely the correct move to Waste the lone dual land before it untapped.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrw1985
I think you misread what he wrote. The Volcanic was tapped when he Wasted it because it was used to cast a Brainstorm and flip Delver in his opponent's upkeep. his opponent then missed his land drop for turn, leaving him with a board of flipped delver and tapped Volcanic. So it was absolutely the correct move to Waste the lone dual land before it untapped.
Oh, if the land is tapped, then that's the right play.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
yes the volcanic island was tapped. But Scatman pointed out something very important as well, because if it were untapped then what he said would be absolutely correct and an inexperienced player would not be able to see that line of play. You're absolutely spot on with tying up his mana on his turn instead.
To be honest I really hate playing against maverick (I just don't like grindy games). To me their biggest threats are Mom (for the protection) and knight of the reliquary. Wonder if anybody has additional tips for this matchup that I might have overlooked.
Sorry I think I didn't phrase it in the right order. It wasn't the upkeep brainstorm that represented mana screw but the fact that he didn't play a land that turn. If RUG delver players want to keep one-land hands with brainstorm in it, then it makes me very happy because they are just screwing themselves.
By the way to all maverick players reading this, you may want try out ulvenwald tracker as a 1 of (tutorable via green sun). He's really good in a creature stall situation against other creature decks (like the mirror for example) especially with KotR out.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
movingtonewao
To be honest I really hate playing against maverick (I just don't like grindy games). To me their biggest threats are Mom (for the protection) and knight of the reliquary. Wonder if anybody has additional tips for this matchup that I might have overlooked.
I also hate playing against Maverick, especially if they're packing Punishing Fire somewhere in their 75.
I find that Mom is often a "kill on sight" type of target, but it's also not always the end of the world. I've let plenty of Moms stick around for a turn or two while I build up my board and try to put my opponent into a situation where he will have to decide which creature he wants to save. Plus, you can get tricky with multiple removal spells - target something irrelevant to force the activation, then kill Mom in response. I love doing that with Sharpshooter and Tarfire.
Knight of the Reliquary is a lot like Tarmogoyf in other matchups. Sure, the thing is huge...but it doesn't have trample and we have plenty of little green men to put in front. A resolved Knight is often a temporary road block, but we have plenty of card advantage and a larger creature swarm overall. Plus, Stingscourger is excellent for clearing the way for an alpha-strike. I highly recommend running 2...it's that good.
As for the rest of the deck, it's nothing we can't handle. You know they'll have at least one Maze of Ith, so I'll sandbag a late game Wasteland if I can afford to until they grab it.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Davran
I also hate playing against Maverick, especially if they're packing Punishing Fire somewhere in their 75.
Punishing Fire is a great excuse for running Surgical Extraction in your sideboard. I've usually been running 2, but I might go up to 4 with it.
Has anyone else been successfully running Surgicals? And what do you run them against?
It's obviously strong against any deck that runs on recursion (Punishing Fire/Grove, Life from the Loam), but it seems only OK against flashback (Lingering Souls, Snapcaster) and it isn't powerful enough to handle Dredge.
Decks I would certainly side it in against-
Dredge
Reanimator
Aggro Loam / Lands
Punishing Maverick
Counter Thopters
Decks I'm not sure if it should be sided
Esperblade (Snapcaster and Lingering Souls targets, maybe CT also)
UW Stoneblade
Anything with Intuition
Storm combo
Anyone have any advice? Especially against Esperblade. It seems like there are many targets for it, but it does nothing against a resolved Batterskull, ya know?
How do other people use this card?
I tend to play it only on recursion targets as states earlier. Does anyone think Surgical is strong enough against flashback targets?
Thank you.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrw1985
Punishing Fire is a great excuse for running Surgical Extraction in your sideboard. I've usually been running 2, but I might go up to 4 with it.
Has anyone else been successfully running Surgicals? And what do you run them against?
It's obviously strong against any deck that runs on recursion (Punishing Fire/Grove, Life from the Loam), but it seems only OK against flashback (Lingering Souls, Snapcaster) and it isn't powerful enough to handle Dredge.
Decks I would certainly side it in against-
Dredge
Reanimator
Aggro Loam / Lands
Punishing Maverick
Counter Thopters
Decks I'm not sure if it should be sided
Esperblade (Snapcaster and Lingering Souls targets, maybe CT also)
UW Stoneblade
Anything with Intuition
Storm combo
Anyone have any advice? Especially against Esperblade. It seems like there are many targets for it, but it does nothing against a resolved Batterskull, ya know?
How do other people use this card?
I tend to play it only on recursion targets as states earlier. Does anyone think Surgical is strong enough against flashback targets?
Thank you.
I play 3, alongside 3 relic of progenitus to battle dredge and reanimator.
Against decks I'm not sure if it will be that good I just look at my maindeck, if there are cards that don't do enough in that matchup I just take them out for 1 or 2 surgicals. I do side them in vs combo because we have quite a lot of 'dead' cards in the main deck then and it can do some funny stuff. I play it against Show and tell of course. (bounce their threat with sting scourger exile SnT is a really strong play) or as you said intuition.
Im still a starting player when it comes to goblins but I have been pretty happy with my sideboard so far.
4 thorn of amethyst (combo)
3 pyroblast (control/show and tell)
3 surgical extraction (stuff stated above)
3 relic of progenitus (dredge/reanimator etc)
2 pithing needle (Nic Fit/Stoneblade decks/Maverick)
Hope I answered some of your questions.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jrw1985
Decks I would certainly side it in against-
Dredge
Reanimator
Aggro Loam / Lands
Punishing Maverick
Counter Thopters
Decks I'm not sure if it should be sided
Esperblade (Snapcaster and Lingering Souls targets, maybe CT also)
UW Stoneblade
Anything with Intuition
Storm combo
My list would be:
Side in:
Dredge
Reanimator
SnT (With Intuition)
TES
High Tide
Enchantress (so you extract a Elephant Grass or the 2W enchantment, when they don't pay for the upkeep and plan on playing another on their main phase. Happens quite a lot).
*Agroo Loam
- You have to be very carefull using it against Loam. Don't go for LftL in the dark, because they can have a cycler on their hand, and screw you. The best application here are: 1- Get LftL while they're tapped out (only). 2 - Get a Seismic Assault that they Dredge to bring back Loam. This cripple their power against us, making we just need to be able to handle some big dudes (Goyf, Crusher, Terravore), with little to no disruption on their side.
Don't bring in:
Punishing Maverick
- It will be very rare that you can Surgical a P.Fire or Grove with valor. You run only 2 Extraction, which means you won't likely see them on the eraly game. That means that they have time to set up. With 2 Grooves on the battlefield, you'll never be able to surgical a P.Fire. Other than that, you don't want to run "do nothing" cards in MU's ruled by attrition. (you can see that where I side them are MU's where they're busted, or we ahve many dead cards)
UW/Esper
- Though it seems Surgical can be good, you'll curse yourself when you see it in your hand. Again, it does not do anything to handle their biggest threats. Even against L.Souls it is bad, since they are able to produce 2 Tokens with it, while you lose a card. AND if you don't hit the 1st one, they'll have much more tokens. And the trick agains't Snapcaster is also not worth it (comment based on serious testing).
Counter Thopters
Again. It doesn't do anything. If you opponent is good, he can safely just leave 1 mana open at all times while using their combo, so Surgical would never be relevant against them. (against bad ones, it may work).
Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1maarten1
3 relic of progenitus (dredge/reanimator etc)
2 pithing needle (Nic Fit/Stoneblade decks/Maverick)
Pithing Needle is not worth against Mav. It has the same reasoning that Surgical. It doesn't do anything. You might be able to blow them out once or twice, but in the majority of times you'll curse yourself, while they have some guys out, Needle will have plenty of targets, but they'll be able to kick your ass regardless of what you name.
Relic, on the other hand, it's surprisingly good. It makes Knight easily killable, it's a 1 drop, and it Cantrips. Cantripping is the most important part here, since it is hugely important. I suggest you try bringing them in instead of Needle to see how they play out.
Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins 2.0
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ScatmanX
Edit:
Pithing Needle is not worth against Mav. It has the same reasoning that Surgical. It doesn't do anything. You might be able to blow them out once or twice, but in the majority of times you'll curse yourself, while they have some guys out, Needle will have plenty of targets, but they'll be able to kick your ass regardless of what you name.
Relic, on the other hand, it's surprisingly good. It makes Knight easily killable, it's a 1 drop, and it Cantrips. Cantripping is the most important part here, since it is hugely important. I suggest you try bringing them in instead of Needle to see how they play out.
Thanks, I have not played a ton against maverick yet so I am going to try this! If I manage to trade my last cards IRL I'll play the deck at a GrandPrix trial in a week or 2. Need to practice a lot more :smile:
