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Doesn't work that way man.Quote:
Originally Posted by NathanS2k
When Griselbrand drops, and without being countered, they can just draw 7. You cannot stop the effect regardless because it goes on the stack.
With that new 7, they can easily draw 1 prog, 1 emrukhal and another to swing in for the win with sneak attack.
Like I said, lunch break. Without something extreme like Ensnaring Bridge, this matchup is pretty bad. Sneak Show is one of those decks that punish Maverick for not running counterspells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar of Shadow
For an Enlightened Tutor Sideboard, I recommend Ensnaring Bridge. Doesn't really prevent you from Griselbrand, draw 7, find Echoing Truth, Bounce, Attack; but at least it buys you some time.
But what you really should play is Phyrexian Revoker (and/or Phyrexian Metamorph)! Tutorable with Fauna Shaman and is just awesome in this matchup, and you can also board it in a few other matchups. Also Pithing Needle is awesome in shutting down Sneak Attack, Griselbrand or cards like Pernicious Deed.
Right now I am playing all three cards and I am not afraid after sideboarding ;-)
For guys which not too familiar with copy effect rules:
Clone, Metamorph and similar copy effects works -
You may have ~this~ enter the battlefield as a copy of any artifact or creature on the battlefield, except it's an artifact in addition to its other types.
This mean that those card choose object (not target) before it enter to battlefield. Show and Tell puts 2 object in the same time. So Copy effect can't choose the second object put from S&T since it's not on the battlefield yet.
This mean that Metamorph won't save you more than Knight of the Reliquary which require fetching Karakas.
I would rather use Revoker since it can name blind - Sneak Attack or Griselbrand. Second option if you running Fauna Shamans are.. Peacekeeper which can be protected by Mom and stops both Emrakul and Griselbrand from attack.. but it still doesn't forbid opponent drawing cards from Bargain on legs.
There are three of us in our playgroup that are currently running maverick, starting with one who got the other two of us on it, me being one of the new ones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
-The other new guy has opted for the 3 spell pierce/1 flusterstorm sb package. This has honestly been very good for him, for a sort of early disruption to them t2ing a hivemind/emerakul/reanimation without them having Force. That being said trying to counter a deck thats carrying Forces is quite tough. But it at least gives him some game vs. all the combo decks at the early points of the game. And like you said it has the added bonus vs burn/dredge
-The original guy and I have opted for 3 Leyline of Sanctity and 2 Ethersworn Canonist, and mostly just excepting the infrequincy of playing t1 kill decks. We've basically decided that the infrequency of these matches dont warrant adjusting the mana base and adding colors. Having the leyline in the opening hand is a plus, but your also able to cast it on the backside of a thalia or canonist that you can vs storm strategies. Attacking there greedy mana bases, coupled with hate bears is the route we've chosen. It seems to work more often than not, with hivemind being the exception. and you have the added bonus of it being good vs. Red and black target decks.
-Chalice is something we havent tested, but minus it or tutor in your opening hand, with tutor being too slow for turn 0, your basically in the same boat as you are with leyline.
-I feel you hit the silence/orims chant on the head, its very narrow, and they just have to wait a turn or 2, which were not going to kill anyone on t4...seems like just delaying the inevitable.
To me it just seems like the checks and balances of legacy. Maverick generally has a better matchups with non-combo FOW decks, those decks generally have better matchups with combo decks, and the combo decks match up well vs. maverick.
Is it frustrating as a maverick player to have so much trouble with combo, yes, but are the majority of the decks were going to see be those combo decks? I dont feel that way.
Hey guys, I'm relatively new to legacy, and I play a version of Punishing Fire Maverick. I've found my biggest weakness is sideboarding, since there are such a vast number of legacy decks out there and my meta is very diverse. The people in my area often have multiple decks, and I've seen a lot of the major archetypes represented. Off the top of my head, the decks I've seen are: storm, burn, goblins, enchantress, spanish inquisition, counter-top, thopter combo, dream halls, combo-elves, stone-blade, merfolk, nic-fit, and sneak attack. With this is mind, is there a way I can tune my sideboard to be more general, instead of specific? First of all, here is my list:
2 Savannah
2 Taiga
1 Plateau
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Arid Mesa
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Qasali Pridemage
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
Now the Sideboard:
SB: 3 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Phyrexian Metamorph
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Wheel of Sun and Moon
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Serenity
I'm thinking of putting 3 thalia in the sideboard against combo/non-creature decks and taking out Serenity, choke, and the third enlightened tutor. Generally I've found that choke gets forced or otherwise countered. The leylines are for burn, storm, and spanish inquisition. Pernicious deed has also been a problem for an unskilled player like me, so I'm trying to find how I can squeeze in another Krosan Grip as well. During this weeks legacy event I lost to a nic-fit player in game 3 from a particularly brutal Deed that cleared my over-extended board. Does anyone have any tips for new players like me, or suggestions on my sideboard or main-deck? Thanks in advance. :wink:
MBTQuote:
Originally Posted by Koby
It's a meta decision. Do you shave against "fair" decks to combat "non-fair" decks? Depends upon what you expect to see.
You would have to lose the ET sb. I would tweak this list: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...7&iddeck=60409
How often do you use your ET sideboard? You've shrunk it to 4 targets (ORing, PM, EE, COP). COP:Red could be replaced by Kitchen Finks (sans Progenitus, which may be less relevant with the shift towards Griselband).
You free up a spot by cutting a Canonist. The sample list above runs 0 Canonist, but I would keep 1 in order to keep the hatebear trifecta alive and well.
The best part about MBT is that nobody expects it (unless you plan to play in Europe). The question remains, do you expect the meta to justify your decision?
MBT also dodges IoK, which is Storm's discard of choice right now. Most Storm players are removing Duress and Chants (unless you're KevinT on the play), so MBT should be the "real deal."
hi guys.
i have a problem with BUGwalker, i can never win.
what is your SB against this matchup?
i play a standard thalia-mav list.
i dont understand which are the card that give problem a BUG decks.
choke is better but not enough
In my SB I have Pithing Needle for planeswalkers and Deed. Gaddock Teeg is also pretty good against them if you can protect him.
I also bring in Choke, just so I have a good density of stuff.
My current problem is that I just played 8 games post board against RUG and didn't win a single one. I can't seem to fight Bolt, Forked Bolt, Submerge, and Sulfur Elemental.
I also am looking for something to side in against them, as Choke is too slow, and their primary strategy is to make sure you never get to 3 lands to cast Knight.
My current SB:
3 Choke
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Ethersworn Canonist [lots of combo where I play]
1 Pithing Needle
1 COP: Red
1 Stony Silence
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Tower of the Magistrate
1 Path to Exile [1 main]
Typically Maverick lists don't have much in their sideboard for this deck. Right now it's just not that popular in the metagame to worry about this match. What's the point of running dedicated hate for a deck that you might not face in a big tournament. Maverick has always had a hard time dealing with pernicious deed. You can't over commit to the board or you risk getting blown out. If you don't apply enough pressure then you might fall too far behind. If the deck does gain popularity or your local tourneys are filled with BUG control then I would suggest running two Oblivion Rings to catch planeswalkers, more flash dudes (Scryb Ranger and Aven Mindcensor) to flash in to respond to liliana discard, and more pridemages/viridian shaman/harmonic sliver to make them waste deeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by .:saturno:.
This is a big problem. Sometimes RUG opens with hands that are just too absurd for Maverick to deal with. If you ever get two for one'd on a Fork Bolt it generally sets you back too far and by the time you actually land a KOTR they will time walk you with their submerges. Thalia is obviously very good against them but that as plays in the two for one Fork Bolt trap. Their wastelands also set us back in tempo and I never feel in control as one shuffle effect can spell disaster and stunting our mana in any way could just be game right on the spot. Batterskull is an okay answer if you actually have a stoneforge mystic live long enough to vial it in or if somehow you actually got up to 5 lands before the game was over. Thrun is more of an answer to their ground force but delvers still give us a problem. Scryb ranger and Swords generally have to stay back for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePrevailer
Revoker/Needle packages are pretty real right now in the Griselbrand era. Revoker being tutorable off both Shaman and Enlightened Tutor means there's absolutely no way you shouldn't be packing at least 1 in your 75 currently. Needle being a hair quicker than Revoker can matter in a few other matchups, though. Revoker/Needle are pretty decent in the mirror, too. Despite them shutting off your versions as well, they can adapt to the situation.
That said, the real beast for the deck to have to deal with right now is just straight up Show and Tell. There isn't a card Maverick has that flat out shuts it off; The closest thing we have is Thalia. We can Revoker/Needle and/or Teeg Sneak Attack, and we should at all costs. It's more deadly, as it can even get around Karakas with an Emrakul, but we have answers to it. We struggle more to answer Show and Tell.
Knight and Fauna Shaman are pretty pro here. Fauna Shaman into Metamorph stops all of them from getting a hit off via Show and Tell, at least. Knight does the same to Emrakul and Griselbrand, which are the more common two right now by far over Progenitus.
None of this stops Griselbrand from drawing seven, though. Which is usually a massive epic problem. So here are my four favorite options:
1. Splash Blue for Meddling Mage. Mage on Show and Tell is a behemoth. Stop Sneak Attack the way you would otherwise - Revokers, Needles, Teeg.
2. Splash Red for Red Elemental Blast. Less effective given that you have to keep off color mana open, but has the additional benefit of being a thing against Blue Miracle decks and RUG Delver.
3. Splash Black for Chains of Mephistopheles. ...Okay, so nobody's actually going to do this, but the card IS a boss against the two best decks in the format right now. Just saying.
4. Run a LOT of Phyrexian Revokers. I run 3 Maindeck Fauna, 1 Revoker, 1 Metamorph, and 2 more Revokers and one Needle in board.
Revoker's got plenty of other neat applications - Pernicious Deeds in Nic Fit, Sensei's Divining Tops in Miracle decks, the occasional Grindstone, etc. It's protectable with Mother of Runes/Sylvan Safekeeper (I run one of those guys. He's an utter boss, and is pretty okay against Rug Delver.) Helps in the Mirror. Etc.
EDIT: My Two cents on fast combo killing you before a hatebear:
You kind of have two options for each type of fast combo:
1. Accept that you're going to lose if something combos out before turn two. Because once you hit your turn two, things turn amazing. You get Teeg, Thalia, Canonist, a chance to E-Tutor for any hate card, etc.
2. Run cards that stop it. In the RUG Delver era, I'm not going to sweat Storm Combo/Belcher too much outside of my local metagame (Mindbreak Trap buys you enough time to get a hate guy down, if this is the case), but Dredge is pretty real. My only maindeck yard hate is Scavenging Ooze, and he just doesn't get there against Dredge that often unless you go first and they get a slow draw. So I have my Enlightened Tutor, my Wheel of Sun and Moon, a Crypt, and usually a Surgical or two depending on how much Dredge I expect. Surgical on Narcomoeba will buy you a lot of time to stabilize.
Hi guys. I've been playing the fauna shaman variation for about half a year so far. At the moment I feel, that it is the strongest way for maverick.
I played BoM this weekend and went 5-0 on the trial and 7-1-1 on the main event with the deck (the big Legacy on Friday I played with BUG Jace-still and went awfully 5-4-1). After 9 rounds of Swiss I finished 18th out of 700+, my standings didn't let me to top16, "sigh"
Here's the list (I changed 2 cards in SB after trial):
"Surviving maverick"
61 cards in maindeck, 22 lands incl. Dryad Arbor
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
2 Horizon Canopy
3 Savannah
2 Forest
2 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Wasteland
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
4 Mother of Runes
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Fauna Shaman
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Lightning Greaves
Sideboard
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Peacekeeper
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Bojuka Bog
the matches:
Thirsday trial:
R1. Enchantress 2-1. Enough lock for him after SB.
R2. Manaless Ichorid 2-1. Little chances in the first game, but very good after sb.
R3. Merfolks 2-1. In second game kept a very weak hand and got screwed. Traditionally good match up.
R4. Maverick 2-0. I just wait for Elesh Norn in 1st game, he can't beat it. The same after board, but I can find Linvala sooner than he (but not sure, what he was boarding).
R5. Bant 2-0. He needs non-basics for comfort play in 3 colors, I just attack his manabase. After board I establish Gaddock Teeg with greaves and his Submerges are useless.
Main event:
R1, R2 - byes
R3. RUG 2-1. I lost first game having KoTR 8-8. Decided to destroy his duals, when I just needed to attack. As a result he brainstorms into more lands, several burn spells, snap and delver. I try playing more wisely postboard and have no poroblems.
R4. Sneak'n Show 2-0. Once I realise, what he is playing, I start digging for Thalias while destroying his lands. He has to pitch Show and Tell and Intuition, to counter two of them, but the third one hits the table and KoTR after that. In second game he says Show on the first turn, but my starting hand is Karakas+KoTR+lands
R5. Bant, lost 1-2. I mulled and kept hands with weak lands. He screwed me and StP'd my hierarchs. Thrun hit the table, but did not save me from a horde of creatures he had time to play, while I was recovering from manascrew.
R6. BUG Jace control 2-1. The key is to not allow him to untap with Pernicious Deed and keep him away either from green-black-x, or from black-black-x, also resolve Thalia and protect it. First game is not very difficult, since his maideck build is soiled with Cliques and discard. Second game is tough, he has perish+snap and double Jace. I boarded useless surgicals and found out that he has no Loam, no Darkblast. In third game I kept him away from green, resolved Sylvan Library and got advantage before he Pernicios Deeded the table. I was able to recover two times after that, since his hand was empty. Eventually, after he killed my Gaddock Teeg and cleaned the table with Massacre, he was at 1 life. I Worldly Tutored for Mystic, got boots and killed with haste.
R7. Maverick 2-0. Again I just wait for Elesh Norn. Double ooze doesn't stop me from hardcasting it. Mother of Runes succesfully went out of sickness and protected Fauna Shaman to find Linvala. That's the game.
R8. Reanimator 1-1. In the first game I double waste him and have time for topdecking Thalia, StP and win. In second game he casts Show into Griselbrand, I put Revoker on Griselbrand, Mother of Runes, Zenith for Scryb and seal the deal with Sylvan Library. Faerie Macabre and Surgical don't let him to put more creatures. Suddenly Engineered Explosives on 2 end the game for me. Started g3 in turns, noone of us is that fast to win obv.
R9 Maverick 2-0. Overall it repeats the previous games against maverick.
So, I can answer any questions. I am satisfied with the result. The next time I'll have to expect EE from Reanimator and mull more carefully against Bant and others. Won't change anything maindeck. Lightning Greaves allowed to save my creatures in critical situations several times, 4 mother of runes is not enough sometimes. Also KoTR and Shaman activation the turn they hit the table sometimes gives free wins.
The card I doubt most of all is Thrun. Doesn't actually help. I'd like to have other creatures in mirror, Ooze against RUG, Gaddock+Thalia against UW and BUG. Troll dies to Terminus, Perish and Innocent Blood. I guess, I will put extra gravehate instead of Troll or second Ooze, but it depends on meta. 3 traps are a minimum must have. Otherwise can't win against Belcher and TES.
Thanks for any of your comments.
Well done door! Good to see a familiar looking deck doing well :) Have you missed the Tarmogoyfs at all?
@saturno
I have found that kitchen finks is superb against BUG Control lists and is not a dead sb card since it can be also quite helpfull against burn decks. On the play it has been also great against UR-RUG builts but on the draw submerge can make it irrelevant.
I have some super secret tech I will be trying this weekend in Nashville. Choke has been terrible for me the last three or so tournaments, so I am doing something a little different.
I will write a report.
Summoning Trap X_X
Congratulations there!Quote:
Originally Posted by door
Simply loved your deck!
Do you remember your boarding plans? I'm more curious on the mirror and against BUG.
Why don't you have the 1off Maze that everyone plays?
Was Ensnaring Bridge usefull anytime? do you want it against what? And is it usefull enough without any was to tutor it?
Thank you.
I own three and desperately want to use them. Is it actually good against RUG? Is it worth splashing to black for?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Against maverick my boarding was
-3 Thalia
- Gaddock teeg
+ Linvala
+ Bojuka bog
+ phyrexian revoker
+ worldly tutor
Against BUG:
- 2 StP
- Loyal retainers
- Elesh Norn
- 1 Umezawa's Jitte
+ Gaddock teeg
+ Bojuka Bog
+ Thrun
+ Revoker
+ Worldly tutor
and + surgical extractions if they play loam or darkblast. I guess it will go instead of quirion ranger and 3rd stp
From my experience Maze is useless unless you play in a meta full of affinity, zoo and goblins. In mirror the game is not about that, also it gets wasted easily. I'd prefer having a minimum of 4 lands that give mana on the 4th turn to play Linvala faster.
Ensnaring bridge is against Sneak'n Show. Also helps against reanimator and dredge. Peacekeeper could be the second bridge, but my deck is constructed to search for creatures, so I split 1-1. Since Sneak'n Show was so much at the event, I think I would change Thrun into another bridge.
Well, I can't afford to play tarmo in my list. Need to have more options. I believe, this deck is better when you play more like a control. Also since everyone plays 2-3 ooze I dismissed vengevines.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Thanks Door.
I'm also curious about Quirion Ranger, because most people only use 1 Scryb Ranger. Why the 1-1 split. Is it really that usefull?