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you splash for it because, especially if you're running 4 of it, there will be cases where you want to cast it. you don't plan on casting it, granted, but you want to be able to when it comes up that that is actually the play you need to make. if you're only running white for lingering souls and ray of revelation in a loam pox version, doesn't it make sense to just run one scrubland so that you can cast the front end when it comes up that you want to? same thing.
Hi guys, I would like your advise.
I've been playing the deck for 2 years now (my favorite MTG deck ever btw)
I keep being told that BUG Delver is a favorable matchup
... but I have yet to actualy win an actual matchup against the beast.
They always have "that last abrupt decay"
to break through a Liliana of the veil an ensanring bridge or a trinisphere
How do you approach the matchup?
Here is my build for reference, I'm having good results with it at my lgs so far. (if I don't have to face a BUG deck)
I even had an opponent raged-quit once (living the dream)!
Nothing fancy here, I like my build clean and right to the point.
1 Nether Spirit
1 Nether Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Trinisphere
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
3 Cursed Scroll
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Ritual
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
12 Swamp
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Trinisphere
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
@ Quitrex: I see your reasoning, but with 12 discard-effects (16 if you would Hymn yourself) I think getting PA into the GY wouldn't be a big problem. In those rare cases you do want to cast it, well... I take my chances :smile:
@ coricho: sorry, can't help you. It's been too long since I played against Delver.decks with Pox.
BUG Delver has 3 problems Pox doesn't like dealing with. Bob, DRS, and Jace. I'm not sure who told you the matchup was favorable but I humbly disagree. I've fought BUG Delver less than a dozen times and I don't ever have favorable matches against them. I too run a traditional Mono-B build so I know where you're coming from.
In the case of Abrupt Decay, the only 'flavor' of Mono-B Pox I've run that crushes such things utterly was Contamination Pox. Can't cast BG without the G. If you've managed to Needle DRS, they'd be unable to play several of their cards. The ultimate top-deck killer. The problem though is the setup required to make it work. You'd need 2-3 Crucible with a mix of 6 N. Spirit and Mishra's Factory.
On the one hand, when it works, it seals games practically perfect. On the other hand, if it doesn't work, you're ability to disrupt is hamstrung since you end up devoting a few cards to the 'combo'.
Nether Void I've yet to test fully but I think it'd work supposing you're not fighting Show & Tell dropping Omniscience, which in turn makes Contamination sad. Trinisphere & Nether Void backing it up is overkill and we all like overkill... :cool:
BUG can't handle big creatures.
Try Tombstalker or something.
IOW focus more on winning than setting up a lock.
I can definitely back up stalker vs bug delver. They do sometimes run a copy or 2 of dismember but that isn't an issue since they have to find it after we check their hand or we snag it, then they have to have enough life or mana to cast it and that doesn't give them much time since stalker is a great clockQuote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
@ Omnistrata, Hardcore and Mykatdied
thank you for your adivise
My "prison" aproach in that perticular matchup was probably a mistake since they can break free of the prison with Abrupt decay, Maelstorm Pulse.
I will add a pair of Tombstalker to my sideboard and see what good he does.
I suppose he's not that bad against combo either, as a clock after a couple of turn disrupting the opponent.
Tombstalker is a great threat to have, but I will say that the reason your don't see him more often is that opponents are already likely to bring in graveyard hate. In these scenarios he is likely a dead card in hand unless you can answer the hate..Quote:
Originally Posted by coricho
GY hate is easier in Legacy now than ever before. This is one of the reasons why R. Duke's older builds that ignore the GY mostly are what I use these days. Having things like Crucible and large numbers of GY 'hopping' creatures will convince your opponent to bring in the hate asap.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
The paranoid may bring it in just for Nether Spirit but usually not. I am tempted to try a 'stompy' approach with lock pieces but I'd have to order Chalices to really maximize my capabilities.
I'd need to find 12 beefy as hell threats which isn't hard in mono B and the other locks. Probably 4 Chalice & 4 Trinisphere but then I'd be losing out on my Inquisition, Innocent Blood, Dark Ritual, and it'd hamper Hymn and Sinkhole. My life without Sinkhole is no life at all... :frown:
I once thought as you do about my sinkholes. I have seen the light, and they aren't as necessary as they once felt, although it is still entertaining to consider when you expect a lot of delver decks, especially 18-19 land versions.
Wasteland and Sinkhole are married damn it. :laugh: The only reason other decks run Wasteland without Sinkhole is cause they're not mono-B. Only reason I don't run Rancid Earth is because Big Pox is the same price and much, much better return on the mana cost.
I want to have the best mana denial deck in my meta and by all that is sexy... I WILL HAVE IT! MUAHAHAH! :cool:
Luckily my meta isn't full of non-mana decks. Things like Omniscience, mana-less dredge, certain combo etc... Mana dorks get needled or Plagued so I'm not too concerned about those. Artifacts I have to have Kegs and Bombs setup. That pretty much gives me only 1 turn to stall.
The day MtG can be played with no mana is the day I quit playing and weep all over my Pox cards, Sinkholes, and Wastelands.
Emotional ranting aside, I have included Tomby for my sideboard which now looks like this.
2 Pithing Needle
1 Powder Keg
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Tombstalker
4 Engineered Plague
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Extirpate
2 Relic of Progenitus
4-5-6 setup for GY, Creatures, and Control respectively. Pox doesn't like control decks that draws and cantrips so having 6 cards to crush them is a good call.
I once ran 3-5-7 but ran out of space and need a more diverse setup.
Please don't needle a mana dork.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
only one it works on is Deathrite. Cursed totem, however...
By control I figure you mean miracles. I am thinking of adding more discard in sideboard vs that match up. After all, my Hymns ruined my opponents day last time.
Another change for me is to try Plague Spitter.
miracles flinches whenever needle, pox, hymn, liliana, or chalice hits the stack. if i really feel spiteful, i put a couple copies of gloom in the board.
My typo [facepalm]. Needle on DRS works since I don't run targeted removal anymore (no cursed scrolls). DRS tends to exile my Nether Spirit as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
My Miracles friend finds Cursed Scroll amusing if it's the only threat as 2 dmg isn't enough for Jace. That and brawling with weenies is what Gamera does best. :smile:
Random question: am I the only one that's flirted with the idea of Dessert as a 1-2 of in creature heavy metas? I acknowledge that it's probably not good, but it seems interesting.
i think its fine but i prefer cabal pit because it produces black mana, and it won't ping you if you swamp tap it with an urborg, tomb of yawgmoth in play..Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
If you want to use lands for creature defense, I've found Cabal Pit and Maze of Ith to be the ultimate answers. The Pit when coupled with Crucible becomes a Cursed Scroll that can't hurt players/planeswalkers but ignores Leyline of Sanctity and indestructible.
Maze of Ith had a fantastic price drop and will stop any biggie from crushing your skull if your sac effects whiff. What's more, your big threats like Tomby and the like can gain pseudo vigilance which will frustrate some players.
Quicksand would also work as it doesn't need threshold, but it's colorless and can't deal with fliers at all. But it's kind of funny just as a flavor.
ATTACK!! Oh noes... *blub blub blub*