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Are there any specific cards to fight the "new" Eldrazi Decks? Most of the time I have 3 tight games against them, winning only 1/3 of them :-/ Still on the UG build and looking for answers to this MU, prefering to avoid cmc1 because of Chalice ;-)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Explosives are fine they smash chalice and endless one and some cmc2 permanents it's similiar match like merfolks but they are worst i guess unfortunately silent arbiter eats warping wail and dismember or just moment's peace or bridge rules against this stupid populists
I have to imagine that show and tell is likely your best card against them. Can they actually race it if you put in titan or a legend?
Yeah, EE and Peace are already in my 75. Peace is great against them, EE is... let's say it's okay. A resolved Show and Tell is usually game, and I side in Platinum Emperion for this scenario as well :-D but Seer can easily ruin your plan, so it shouldn't be the only one...
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I've recently been testing petrified field. Good for returning eye of ugin should you lose it.
Silent Arbiter's been working well for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Postman
Hey, everyone! This is my first post at The Source; I've chatted a bit with some of you on the Legacy Reddit page about Titan Post and thought I'd start participating a little bit here.
I've been playing mono-green Titan Post for only three weeks at my LGS but I absolutely love the deck so far. I'm going to GPNY tomorrow (Sunday) and want to play in a Legacy side event. I'm moderately confident in my maindeck build but I'm not at all sure of my sideboard, which is kind of a hot mess. Can anyone offer me some quick suggestions? (I'll note that there is no Storm at my LGS, hence the lack of sideboard response to it.)
4 Primeval Titan
2 Veteran Explorer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Pithing Needle
4 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Moment's Peace
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
1 Thespian's Stage
6 Forest
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale (on loan from an obviously awesome friend)
SIDEBOARD:
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Krosan Grip
2 Elephant Grass
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Reclamation Sage
2 Dismember
Other potential sideboard cards I already own are:
Silent Arbiter
Lodestone Golem
Spacial Contortion
What do you all think? Is there anything I should rush to a vendor to buy before round one?
Thanks so much!
Christopher
Only 8 players, 2 of whom were on Miracles. Whatever, I don't care. I won my GP Trial today so I have two byes for Columbus. Same list I posted on the previous page. I'll post a somewhat short writeup a little later.
Hey back! I'll come up with a more comprehensive response later, but at first glance I can say I'm not a huge fan of GSZ, less a fan of Veteran Explorer, and not at all a fan of no Expedition Map. Sideboard is not bad with what you currently have. Spatial Contortion is a risk without a basic Wastes, so you should probably stick with Dismember so Magus of the Moon doesn't screw you over.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
All right. Here's my writeup. Like I said, only 8 players, and two were on Miracles, but hey. GP Trial. I'll take it. Because it was only 8 players, it was 3 rounds of Swiss essentially for seeding, then came the elimination rounds.
Round 1: Forgemaster MUD
Fortunately, I got my bad games out of the way.
Turn 1 he goes City of Traitors, Grim Monolith, Crucible of Worlds. Well, I know what my Needle is naming. Unfortunately, he plays Lightning Greaves on turn 2, Lodestone Golem on turns 3 and 4, and proceeds to pound my face in.
Game 2 was hilarious. We ended up with 14 Loci on the battlefield: 7 apiece. Unfortunately, he got an early Staff of Nin and linked up a Platinum Emperion with Batterskull: sure, he doesn't gain life, but he still ended up with a 12/12 with vigilance. Unfortunately, I mostly just topdeck lands and the occasional speed bump for the Emperion. Adding to the hilarity, I end up having to tick a Ratchet Bomb all the way up to 8 to handle both it and an Ugin, the Spirit Dragon. Karn buys me a few turns, and Silent Arbiter buys me at least a dozen, but eventually I run out of obstacles and get crushed.
0-2
-----
Round 2: Miracles
Miracles is a great matchup for Post. Having said that, this particular pilot is extremely skilled and has beaten me before. I take him very seriously.
Game 1 sees me play a turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer. I see Nahiri, the Harbinger. I am a simple man. I see new tech, I get rid of it. Unfortunately, a second Nahiri handles the Seer. I get another Seer and an Ulamog, but they eat a Terminus. It's okay though, because I get enough land to tutor for Emrakul and win.
Game 2 starts with land drops and a Chalice of the Void on 1. A Vendilion Clique nabs a Thought-Knot Seer, but I get down Kozilek and draw a bunch of cards. He attempts to play Jace, the Mind Sculptor, but I pitch another Seer to counter it. Next turn, he attempts to cast Terminus, but I tutor for a Sower with Eye and counter that, too. Beatdown ensues.
2-0
-----
Round 3: Miracles
Different player, slightly different deck, pretty much identical results.
Game 1 sees me play a Pithing Needle on turn 2. He lets it resolve, and I name his Flooded Strand. His next land is another Flooded Strand. I follow with a Karn and start munching on his hand, getting a Jace. He eventually gets Council's Judgment, but I get an Ugin. He can't counter it, and Ugin goes all the way. (Aside: let someone resolve an Ugin ult at least once before scooping. It's fun seeing someone vomit seven permanents onto the battlefield. Or so I think.)
Game 2 starts with a lot of counters. He counters Chalice. He counters Thought-Knot Seer. A Revoker meets Swords to Plowshares. Finally, I get a Seer to stick. It grabs a Terminus before getting bottomed by a second one. However, that's all he does, and I eventually tutor up Emrakul and win.
2-0
-----
Quarterfinals: (6) Miracles
Same opponent I just faced. 2-1 in the Swiss lands me a 3-seed, so with modified play/draw rule, I go first. Totally not complaining about playing Miracles again.
Game 1, I Revoker Sensei's Divining Top and Thought-Knot Seer grabs a Jace. I see two Counterbalance, some lands, and Entreat the Angels. Both creatures get bottomed by a Terminus, but my next Seer gets Snapcaster Mage. He bottoms an All Is Dust with Vendilion Clique, but I get to tutor Emrakul and win.
Game 2 starts with a lot of cards getting answered. Chalice gets countered by Force of Will, Oblivion Sower gets hit by Swords to Plowshares, and Ugin also eats a Force. My second Sower sticks, though, as does Kozilek. Terminus bottoms them both, and he follows with Back to Basics. Unfortunately, he's spent his whole hand, and I eventually get enough mana to cast an All Is Dust. After clearing the way, Emrakul does it again.
2-0
-----
Semifinals: (7) Jund
With the 7-2 upset, I go first.
Game 1 was largely non-eventful. Thought-Knot Seer demands a Toxic Deluge, his Tarmogoyf can't punch through Silent Arbiter, and a Karn and Emrakul seal the deal.
Game 2 sucked. I mulligan to 5, he gets double Wasteland and a Maelstrom Pulse for my Coercive Portal. His only life-loss is self-inflicted through fetches, Dark Confidant and Sylvan Library.
Game 3 was the most tense game I played all day. He knocks Ugin out of my hand with Thoughtseize and out of his life with Surgical Extraction. All I'm getting are Ancient Tombs, so pretty much everything I cast is painful. Coercive Portal gets Pulsed again. Silent Arbiter falls to Liliana of the Veil. My Ratchet Bomb buys me some breathing room by clearing out a Dark Confidant and Sylvan Library, and then Oblivion Sower handles Liliana. He passes with two lands and Deathrite Shaman, and me at 7 life. My hand is threat-free until I top-deck an Ulamog. I decide to go for it. I Tomb myself down to 3 life and cast Ulamog, targeting his Deathrite and his only red-producing land: a Badlands. Having missed a land drop, he needs to draw a red source and have a Lightning Bolt; otherwise I win. He has neither and I get him.
Part of why I gambled on it is that a lot of players who splash red for direct damage tend to board out some number of Lightning Bolt and/or Forked Bolt against me since most of my threats just can't be burned down. Sure enough, his Bolts were MIA.
2-1
-----
Finals: (4) Deathblade
The 8 seed had beaten the 1 and the 4 beat the 8, so once again, I was on the play.
Game 1 was an absolute blast. He had triple Wasteland. He Forced Coercive Portal. He Forced Thought-Knot Seer. But while all this devastation was going on, he had no tempo: his board was about as barren as mine. He eventually got down a True-Name Nemesis and an Elspeth, Knight-Errant. He got me down to 7 and played a Sword of Fire and Ice. Unfortunately, his countermagic was gone, allowing for a crushing Ugin play that left only his equipment behind. He got down a Stoneforge Mystic, but Thought-Knot Seer was able to stay in front of it and Ugin carried me the rest of the way.
Game 2, well, sucked. My seven-card hand was five lands and two Pithing Needle. Hindsight being 20/20, I should have kept that since I mulliganed all the way down to 4, eventually keeping a hand with only a Vesuva as a land drop, reasoning that at least it could copy one of his lands and with a Wasteland I would be screwed anyway. It turns out when you keep a 4 card hand, your hand usually sucks, and he didn't even take any cards off Vendilion Clique. Then I died. It was tragic.
Game 3 was also a slow start. I get Wastelanded and my first Chalice of the Void gets countered. Eventually I get down a Thought-Knot Seer and get a break. With the EtB trigger on the stack, my opponent hits it with Swords. This draws him a card, which unfortunately for him is Geist of Saint Traft, which I promptly pluck out of his hand. I follow this up with a Chalice on 1, which stops his Brainstorm. He eventually gets down both a True-Name Nemesis and a Stoneforge Mystic, but unfortunately for him I get Ulamog, taking out both of his white sources: Karakas and Tundra. All Is Dust resolves after that, and Ulamog takes it home.
2-1
Excellent report Zotmaster! I really dig the list. My longtime issue with Turbo Eldrazi has been the threat density, but it looks like you're onto something.
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All right. Here's the more comprehensive response I promised regarding your list. Let me start by saying that while I feel like I know the strategy really, really well after playing it a few years, I nonetheless prioritize differently from some of the other established players on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
I think Veteran Explorer is a huge waste of X slots, where X is equal to how many you run. The problem with the card is that it essentially warps your deck: that's why Nic Fit exists. Nic Fit has ways of actually getting value from the Explorer, whether it's sacrificing it for some mana, sacrificing it to Cabal Therapy, or whatever else. In your current list, you essentially have to politely ask your opponent to kill it for you in order for it to do anything. True, you could possibly use it to speed bump something, but until you do it's a card that does absolutely nothing. You would much rather have the card actually do, well...anything. Sakura-Tribe Elder would probably also be awful, but at least you can make it hit the yard whenever you want.
That brings me to the rest of your list, and I think the problem card in your list is Green Sun's Zenith. Now, generally speaking, it is a powerful card. You want your Oracle? Great. Need a Titan? Sure. More artifact/enchantment hate out of the board? Awesome, you're covered. But look at what you're giving up in the rest of the deck. Your toolbox lands are all one-ofs. Okay, GSZ can get Dryad Arbor, but what about Maze of Ith or Cavern of Souls? You're counting on either Crop Rotation or Primeval Titan to get them...and Titan won't even get you the Cavern, because you'd want the Cavern first to make sure the Titan resolved. GSZ can get Titan, sure, but it costs you an extra mana and is also vulnerable to Spell Pierce. Adding all of this up, this is really, really bad.
This marks the difference between my colorless list and most of the classic lists. Both lists want to just make land drops every turn in order to do big, awesome things later. However, the colored lists are more reactive: make your land drops, and respond based on what your opponent does. My colorless list is proactive: make land drops and put obstacles in your opponent's way. The colorless list relies on card quality; the colored lists generally rely on card selection. You don't have enough ways to improve your hand. There's no Expedition Map to get those toolbox lands when you need them. There's no Ancient Stirrings to dig for your Candelabra of Tawnos, your planeswalkers, or even those same toolbox lands. The way you get away with one-ofs is with tutoring effects: Trinket Mage in blue works really well in this regard. Maps to find lands and Stirrings for stronger dig is the other way you get away with it.
As for your sideboard, I'd probably either go all in on Relic of Progenitus or all in on Surgical Extraction. Though they're both pieces of grave hate, they fight graveyards a little differently. Relic is stronger against anything running Deathrite Shaman, while Extraction is stronger against Lands and Storm while also giving you a bit of protection against your opponent's Surgicals. Speaking of Storm, I'd highly advise having more answers to it. Sphere effects are extremely strong and also give you play against Omni, Infect or even Eldrazi. Elephant Grass is also fine; compared to Silent Arbiter, it's a little better against Infect, Marit Lage and Griselbrand.
I hope this is helpful.
Just a few quick observations:Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
- If you're running a GSZ build, you might as well throw a Gaddock Teeg in the board. Adding a 1x Karakas and Savannah is probably enough to support it. Also, you should really prioritize getting a Karakas; it's a key toolbox land.
- I'm not a fan of Relic. Land tutors + Bojuka Bog should be ample graveyard hate.
- I highly recommend going up to the full 4x Vesuvas. They add a lot of consistency to the Post engine, plus gets extra ETB triggers with Bog/Glimmerpost.
- You need Expedition Maps.
- You don't need 4x Pithing Needles, especially all in the main. 3x is ideal, in my experience. 4x Grip also seems excessive.
- I'd run Chasm main over Tabernacle (although I run both main in my build). Tabernacle is much more narrow, and having access to an emergency line of defense is probably better game 1. That said, I'd run both main, especially if you expect a lot of Pyromancer decks.
Thanks for the replies and the advice! Some thoughts to bounce back at you, keeping in mind that I've been playing this deck (and Legacy as a format) for all of three weeks...
Veteran Explorer has been hit or miss for me. I originally tried Pyroclasm as a way to kill it myself (and hopefully take some Young Pyromancer tokens with it!) but I think Zotmaster was correct in suggesting it's not worth the red splash. It's also pretty easy to tell which matchups see Veteran Explorer boarded out for game two; maybe this is a sign. But in the times I've used it, it has been to great effect. Opponents playing any creatures at all seem to look at Veteran Explorer like a deathtouch creature; it has held back small armies because they're afraid to attack and give me extra mana. It's also been nice with Green Sun's Zenith to help ramp and provide a chump blocker in a pinch. Maybe, like most things in Legacy, it would be a local metagame decision.
If I were to take out the Veteran Explorers, I think the fill for the slot would be Expedition Map. I've seen lists that run Map and lists that don't. As a GR Tron player in Modern, I definitely understand the power and versatility of this card... maybe even more so here with all the toolbox lands. It's just a question of what I cut for it and of how many copies I run. Ditto for Ancient Stirrings.
Okay... Green Sun's Zenith. Here's the thing: this card is one of the reasons I wanted to play Legacy. My personal playstyle just lines up so well with this card and every time I cast it I get excited. (I'm obviously totally not a Spike.) I would be more interested in trying to better take advantage of it with some additional toolbox creatures than I would be with cutting it or moving the deck towards a colorless build. I know Zotmaster is against this card, but I'm not ready to cut it just yet.
Gaddock Teeg (and a Savannah to support him) is on my list of next upgrades. I like the idea of the white splash for sideboard cards but I wanted to learn the mono-green version first so I that can understand how and when those cards are an advantage. He's also nice with Green Sun's Zenith.
Serious question from a new Legacy player: what is Karakas good for other than providing white mana and looping your Emrakul? (Or is that alone enough?) Are there legendary creatures my opponent will cast that I want to bounce for protection? Regardless, I plan to add a copy once we find out if it gets an EMA reprint.
I've been thinking of going up to a third Vesuva but I've worried that four is too many. Wouldn't it be bad early game if you had nothing good to copy with it? A forest that comes into play tapped would suck.
I can see the argument for three Pithing Needle instead of four. There is just a ton of Wasteland in my local meta and in the times I've had two Needles to cast, there has always been a valid target for the second. That said, perhaps cutting one allows for an Expedition Map.
I can see playing Glacial Chasm main. I'll try it out.
As for sideboard advice, all I can do at the moment is store it away and evaluate as I get more experience. But it is very much appreciated.
Sounds like nic fit would be a better...fit for you.
(•_•)Quote:
Originally Posted by thatone
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
You still have to look at it in terms of what you're giving up in that slot. True, it can stare down one creature, but something like Moment's Peace could stop an entire wave at least once (if they have Deathrite Shaman) and twice otherwise. The card works best when you have ways to give yourself value out of it, other than just kamikaze. Puns notwithstanding, Nic Fit - or more of a Nic Fit approach - is where that works best.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
I would run Map first. Basically, if you cut GSZ, also add in Stirrings. Otherwise, fill it with Maps. I personally like at least 3 Maps, if not 4.Quote:
If i were to take out the veteran explorers, i think the fill for the slot would be expedition map. I've seen lists that run map and lists that don't. As a gr tron player in modern, i definitely understand the power and versatility of this card... Maybe even more so here with all the toolbox lands. It's just a question of what i cut for it and of how many copies i run. Ditto for ancient stirrings.
That's totally fine. I'm more against it on account of the fact that your current list didn't have enough ways to access your toolbox lands. Maps help in that regard.Quote:
Okay... Green sun's zenith. Here's the thing: This card is one of the reasons i wanted to play legacy. My personal playstyle just lines up so well with this card and every time i cast it i get excited. (i'm obviously totally not a spike.) i would be more interested in trying to better take advantage of it with some additional toolbox creatures than i would be with cutting it or moving the deck towards a colorless build. I know zotmaster is against this card, but i'm not ready to cut it just yet.
Gaddock teeg (and a savannah to support him) is on my list of next upgrades. I like the idea of the white splash for sideboard cards but i wanted to learn the mono-green version first so i that can understand how and when those cards are an advantage. He's also nice with green sun's zenith.
Here's a brief list. Your opponent's Emrakul. Griselbrand. Iona, Shield of Emeria. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben. Marit Lage. Even Vendilion Clique: eventually you will draw something good, and in the mean time you aren't getting bashed for 3 damage a turn.Quote:
Serious question from a new legacy player: What is karakas good for other than providing white mana and looping your emrakul? (or is that alone enough?) are there legendary creatures my opponent will cast that i want to bounce for protection? Regardless, i plan to add a copy once we find out if it gets an ema reprint.
The occasional clunky or have-to-mulligan hand of multiple Vesuvas or other lands that don't tap for mana is mitigated somewhat by the fact that you get more consistency out of your ramp. Also, don't underestimate copying a basic Forest: now you can cast your Primeval Titan under a Moon effect.Quote:
I've been thinking of going up to a third vesuva but i've worried that four is too many. Wouldn't it be bad early game if you had nothing good to copy with it? A forest that comes into play tapped would suck.
EDIT: Mangara of Corondor is also a giant, Post-hating jerk. Just get to him while he's got summoning sickness.
It answers other legendary creatures, especially from Reanimator and Sneak & Show, who can't replay their fatties without another combo piece. Between those two archetypes, you can expect to encounter Griselbrand, Emrakul, Iona, Elesh Norn. Jin-Gitaxias used to be popular too, but I haven't seen much of him in a few years. It can also bounce Clique as a bad pseudo-Maze, which can stave off lethal while you try to topdeck an answer. It can bounce Mangara vs D&T while he's still summoning sick (although that doesn't do much if they have a Vial on 3 too).Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
It saves your Eldrazi from removal (and Gaddock Teeg, if you go that route).
But honestly, being able to rebuy Eldrazi casting triggers itself is worth it. The Emrakul + Karakas lock is usually enough to get the scoop. And so is devastating your opponent's board with Ulamog + Karakas. The card advantage from Kozilek BoT + Karakas is insane, and should also win you the game.
But I'll tell you a story. At an SCG Open about 3 years ago, I was playing against Dragon Stompy. I boarded out Karakas in game 2 to make room for something, and I ended up sitting across from two Ensnaring Bridges. I tutored up old Ulamog, but – forgetting I boarded out Karakas – decided to hit the Revoker naming Candelabra, thinking I could grab Karakas and use the newly freed mana to take out both Bridges too. Instead, I ended up having to use Eye and the legend rule to keep looping both Kozileks until I could draw two Krosan Grips. (My opponent conceded after a few turns of this, since time was a factor).
I boarded Karakas back in for game 3. We went to turns, with a Kozilek on my side stuck in front of two Bridges again.
T1: Opponent's turn. Eye finds Emrakul at EOT.
T2: Cast Emrakul. Use Map to find Karakas.
T3: Bounce Emrakul, recast Emrakul. Play another Cloudpost.
T4: Bounce Emrakul, cast Emrakul, play another Cloudpost, which brought me to enough mana to also activate Eye for Ulamog.
T5: Cast Ulamog to take out one Bridge, Karakas to bounce him so I could take out the other, swing with Kozilek and Emrakul for the win.
And that was the last time I ever boarded out Karakas.
That's why you play Expedition Maps. Then you almost always have good things to copy.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
This is the best thing I have read on the Source in a long time. Congratulation on the Byes and thank you for the nice write up!Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
Why you won't try Phyrexian Tower ? With so many Crop Rotation/Expedition map is best tool to hardcast Titan Turn 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
So this past week, someone asked my why trickbind over stifle; after I trickbinded a polluted delta. My answer was, beats me, that's what the collective says. I guess it doesn't get countered by chalice of the void set to X=1?
Any insight would be greatful so I don't sound like an idiot the next time someone asks.
I've desperately tried to flip thing in the ice with the ~22 spell build. Thing in the ice's survival rate was approximately 0%. It died countless times to lilianas, swords, terminus, block + bolt, REB.
It doesn't get countered by basically anything. That's most of it. And yes, it doesn't get defeated by Chalice on 1, but more importantly, it also allows you to force spells through that same Chalice. And then you have the occasional corner case where you can time walk a Sneak and Show player who passes priority to you while only activating Sneak once. Stifle effects are a very specific form of interaction, and at the risk of stating the obvious, that type of interaction only works if the spell resolves: it's why, say, a BUG Delver shell plays out a lot differently with Stifles as opposed to without.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
It's also just very flexible in general. It's another Wasteland defense. It's an out against Storm. It stops Miracle triggers. It can disrupt a planeswalker. It can completely ruin a tempo deck that keeps a land-light, cantrip-heavy hand. It makes a Batterskull irrelevant. I'm sure you can think of other uses.
I've moved away from the thing early in my testing. It's not only vulnerable it's also 2 slow. The trigger is great and it does work sometimes, but you can't count on it... I prefer trinket mage for it's versatility and being a shuffle - creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Thing should likely never block unless you're really rough for life or can flip in response to save it. Decay, liliana and terminus are likely things you can't get past, aside from running trickbind to stifle a terminus miracle trigger, liliana sacrifice, etc. Seems pretty good thinking on that a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by maCHOOga
Have been having amazing online success with this list, partially inspired by zot's list:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 [OGW] Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [ZEN] Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TSP] Trickbind
Flex sb slots are the x2 trick, x2 beb, x2 MBT. I wouldn't touch anything else.
Ratchet Bomb main has been hilariously amazing, doing nearly everything EE did for me in the past, without requiring healthy manabases to stabilize. Also the new delver change helps knock out drs as well, rather than only hitting tokens.
Got 1st place this week for weekly legacy with this list inspired by Zot, only slightly modified from previous list:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
1 [TSP] Vesuva
2 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)
// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 [OGW] Thought-Knot Seer
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
4 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [AQ] Candelabra of Tawnos
4 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
3 [M14] Ratchet Bomb
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [TSP] Trickbind
SB: 2 [WWK] Nature's Claim
Matchups were Tin Fins, Moggcatcher Stompy, Miracles, Storm (he ID'd out of fear)
Ratchet bomb showed up often and was always hugely important, even against Tinfins vs artifact mana or pithing needles.
Really enjoying this setup. I could see running cards specifically against Infect in the sb.
Infect is the one match I really, really hate in this colorless build. It's basically Bomb, Sphere effects, or just get the Magic Johnson treatment. Lands is bad if they combo immediately, but otherwise my 1-drops are very strong and I also put Endbringer back in, which they mostly can't answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I likely will go with submerge, dismember, moment's peace as my options vs them. Pithing needle is "ok" hitting either pendlehaven, wasteland, or inkmoth too. If you REALLY are only aiming to fight infect, then gut shot is your best bet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zotmaster
I think I'm actually going to dump my Chalice of the Void in the board in favor of Warping Wail the more I think about it. With my current configuration, Chalice has more often been a "I have a few extra cards, might as well throw these in" sort of sideboard plan. 4 more Spheres in the board as well as Cursed Totem and Grafdigger's Cage are probably enough combo answers when used in conjunction with the Trinisphere, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, and Phyrexian Revoker I'm already running. Wail didn't make sense to me in the main due to being more reactive than proactive, but I think it makes a lot more sense out of the board since it can help address the little X/1 idiots or random sorcery spells to help cover until I can get Spheres and Ratchet Bomb on the board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
i like this build, but i lost terribly against RUG - namely stifle. just terrible against bomb. Stifle is one of those cards i really hate playing against with any post build. I rather see a titan / eldrazi get countered than see their triggers stifled. Furthermore it can mana screw you, reap your maps, prevent life gain, ... Not to mention the delay action against eye and top (draw). This is why i like trickbind in the mirror it has won me several mirror matches in the past. This ratchet build seems especially vulnerable against stifle...
My current build:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
1 Vesuva
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Tropical Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
2 Cavern of Souls
4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
2 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Brainstorm
3 Show and Tell
3 Crop Rotation
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Warping Wail
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Platinum Emperion
SB: 1 Glacial Chasm
SB: 2 Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 Zuran Orb
So far, splashing black has been great. Decay is just insane, Deed as well. Only missing good old repeal against combo lands, but MU is still ok. I guess I'll cut Ugin and the 2 Phyrexian Revokers. Revokers will enter the SB, Ugin will have to leave the 75 atm:cry: cmc8, no way to tutor it, no cheating in, no way to "protect" him against counter...doesn't feel good right now.
Well I've been playing against one dude on xmage who plays a BG build with the new turtle guy (The Gitrog Monster) + Tireless Tracker. It works very well for him. The card advantage on the that thing is great once he gets tracker online. Lots of lands (30 i think) with crucible and waste (i think?). Anyhow it seems an interesting build.
I don't know if that dude is following this forum, but it would be interesting to get his comment and list. Dude if you're out there post your list and tell us more about this build...?
Would be really cool to see his list! I saw Tireless Tracker in action last night (SOI draft). He was a real engine, no doubt. But in Legacy, I would always be afraid of drawing him in turn 6+ :-/ that's one of the reasons I don't play cards like Exploration or Oracle of Mul Daya. But if his Deck works, let's hope he will post it here and convinces us ;-)
Gesendet von meinem LG-H961N mit Tapatalk
I am following this forum, and finally decided to register, just to post this list (and it looks completely crazy, but over >200 matches on xmage if have ~70% winrate with this and earlier versions of it):Quote:
Originally Posted by MechTactical
Lands:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Forest
2 Savannah
1 Bayou
2 Windswepth Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Vesuva
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Wasteland
Spells:
3 Mox Diamond
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Crop Rotation
2 Warping Wail
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Creatures:
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Golgari Charm
1 Engineered Plague
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Crop Rotation
2 Krosan Grip
2 Warping Wail
2 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Chalice of the Void
How it started: I wanted to try out Tireless Tracker and Gitrog Monster in a Post Build with Crucible, and my first list looked a lot more streamlined - with just the two colors, some more cards you would expect with a black splash (like Abrupt Decay), just ~25 Lands and without most of my utility lands. That list was ok, but i wasn't happy with some of it and decided to try more and more crazy ideas, expecting them to fail. Well, my winrate went up and i was happy with all of it, so why not just keep the crazy list? Every single questionable land has won me a few games either directly or indirectly by providing insane value.
I keep track of all my results, here are just the most common decks i played against on xmage (the meta there might be a little unusual):
Reanimator: 10-7
Lands: 12-2
NicFit: 13-0
Eldrazi: 9-4
12-Post: 6-7
Death & Taxes: 11-0
Storm: 6-4
Shardless BUG: 5-4
Burn: 5-3
BUG Delver: 3-4
Miracles: 6-1
Jund: 4-1
Manaless Dredge: 5-0
Sneak & Show: 4-1
Elves: 4-0
Merfolk: 2-2
UR Delver: 1-3
Omnitell: 2-2
Infect: 3-1
Against most fair decks any creature they dont deal with will eventually take over the game with insane card advantage, each in a different way and all of them working great together. This deck can outgrind anything. I only lose against fair decks it they somehow manage to deal with all of my threats right away and still have a reasonable clock - that happens mostly against delver, although Liliana can be a problem too (and sometimes Eldrazi has just nutdraws you can't beat).
Against combo decks i will often lose game 1, but postboard i can mulligan into a very reactive hand. Warping Wail is great, Crop Rotation can deal with many combos, and Leyline and Chalice provide even more help.
About some of the card choices:
Tireless Tracker: The idea was: With this deck i make a lot of landdrops, so i get a lot of clues, and thanks to cloudposts i will usually have the mana to crack all of these clues. And that's pretty much how it works. Sometimes it can become a big beater, but it will at least provide some card advantage all of the time.
Knight of the Reliquery: Took me a while to try the white splash for this card, but i really like it. It's a permanent source for Crop Rotations and usually a nice blocker. I very rarely attack with it, it's mostly a great way to develop my lands into whatever i need (and provide additional value if i have other creatures in play).
Gitrog Monster: If this is unanswered, it will provide insane value - and all the other creatures work well with it. Usually i don't try that hard to search it up with GSZ, but in some very advanced board states it can be better than a Titan. As a rule of thumb i think the first Titan is usually better than the Gitrog Monster, but if the first Titan doesn't win the game, the Gitrog Monster is better then the second Titan most of the time. (And costing just 5 Mana instead of 6 can make the difference.)
Titania: Just another angle of attack. It works well with the other creatures and it opens up the option to go wide.
Just one Primeval Titan: I started without any Titans, but soon realized i want to have access to it. But with 4 GSZ the one Titan is just enough. It very rarely came up that my Titan was dead and having another one in the library would have won the game, but in all of these cases i won the game anyway with gitrog or titania.
The Dark Depths Combo is very helpful in some rather difficult matchups. I have killed Storm more than once on turn 4 while always keeping up Crop and/or Wail to interact with their combo. I have won races against Burn. In these matchups i sometimes board out the eldrazi package and just go for marit lage as my main plan. (In grindier matchups it's often the other way, i board out Dark Depths and go for Eldrazi.)
Bojuka Bog Main is a concession to the Xmage Meta.
Horizon Canopy can be a Draw Engine with Crucible and Oracle or Gitrog out, and it's a colored mana source.
Sea Gate Wreckage is helpful against Decks that make you play of the top. I added it as the 61st card just to try it, and so far i'm happy with it.
Wasteland can just randomly win you the game with crucible, it's also added value with Gitrog and Titania in the Deck. And sometimes you just have to get rid of one specific land (like Eye of Ugin in the mirror).
Chalice in the board (a relatively new addition):
1. It's another "must-answer" threat against Delver (and Miracles, but that matchup is already fine). I board out the Crop Rotations there (because they just get countered too often to cast them as anything else then Wasteland-Counter), so i just have Top as a 1-Drop, and that often comes down before the Chalice.
2. It helps a lot against most combo decks. Sometimes you get into awkward situations with Chalice and Crop Rotation in hand, then you have to decide what's more important in this game, but there are also some matchups where you can just put the chalice on 0 and still have access to Crop Rotations (Storm, Belcher, Oops All Spells).
Cards i don't play:
Ancient Stirrings: I started with some number of it, but after a while i realized whenever i cast it, it just found me a land, a top or a crucible while i really wanted just another creature. So i cut them for additional creatures, and haven't missed them at all. This build just doesn't have enough colorless action to really utilize this card. In addition, it opened up the option for Chalice in the board.
Pithing Needle in the Main Deck: This deck doesn't fold to Wasteland. It's not like i don't care about it, but other than some games where Lands just locked me out very early in the game Wasteland has never been a problem. I have won a lot of games without a single locus on the battlefield.
Abrupt Decay: I started with 4 of them in the 75, eventually cut them all. With this mana base (and even with less utility lands and more colored sources) it's unreliable to cast early in the game. And overall it's just a one for one trade when it's good, and it's dead in pretty much every combo matchup.
Hand Disruption: I started with some Thought-Knots, but they don't do anything for my engine and they often come down too late against combo decks. A turn 3 Thought-Knot doesn't help if the combo deck goes off on turn 1 or 2. And if the combo deck doesn't kill me that fast my other tools work just fine anyway. Thoughtseize or other black hand disruption spells require reliable access to black mana on turn 1, there is no way my deck can do that.
Other Eldrazi: I don't think i need Kozilek - my deck provides more than enough card draw without him.
Overall i think my bad matchups are the Mirror (because other Post Decks are better at getting and utilizing insane amounts of mana), Delver decks, very fast Combo Decks and Mono-Red Bloodmoon Decks, the deck feels even or favorable against anything else, although you have to work for your wins and with that many options there is room to make a lot of mistakes. And even in the bad matchups you aren't just dead. I won a game against Mono-Red-Stompy by casting Emrakul while Bloodmoon was in play, and i won multiple games by casting Ulamog under a Bloodmoon. :cool:
I would be happy if someone tried this list or a similar one in paper or on Magic Online. I haven't played paper magic in years, right now i'm playing only on Xmage, so i probably won't find out by myself if the deck also works that well in a more competitive setting.
i'm also trying Tireless Tracker in ug version as side card against few matchups and seems to me very solid but must to test him more and today helped to win trial for gp prague..
Looking forward to taking a close look at the build. testing it and enjoying this fresh look at the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshrac82
I played against reanimator tonight for the first time and, yeaaahhh, I got totally destroyed. How (if at all) does Titan Post deal with this deck?
Which variant?Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
UG - countermagic, Bojuka bog, Glacial chasm, relic of Progenitus, surgical extraction, warping wail, chalice of the void
CGx - Bojuka bog, Glacial Chasm, relic of Progenitus, surgical extraction, warping wail, chalice of the void
There are a lot of different options available to each variant. Just depends on how much you think you need the extra options
Karakas depending on which creature they go for
So the last two times I've played against D&T, the final game of the match they have always drawn/started with their 1-of cataclysm/armaggedon. Am I just getting unlucky? Everytime it has been, swords your primetime, blow up all the lands. Should I be playing around a potentially-not-in-the-list one of?
Glad to see maindeck thoughtknots. I've been trying them SB and feel like I've been boarding them in against just about everything. I was able to tune the deck to include 3 main, but you did the work for me. Thanks! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Lee
I'm playing mono-green Titan Post. This was a mono-black Reanimator brew with Lion's Eye Diamonds and Dark Rituals and lots of cards that were new to me.
Game one he was on the play, reanimated Sire of Insantiy, and said "go." I discard my seven cards, draw a non-land card for my turn one, and immediately concede.
Game two, I keep a hand with 2 Relic of Progenitus, Glimmerpost, Dryad Arbor, Crop Rotation, Eye of Ugin, one other card that I don't remember. Turn one, I play Glimmerpost, Relic. In hindsight, perhaps I should've played Dryad Arbor and passed. His turn one he puts Griselbrand into play, attacks, draws 21 cards, casts Unmask to take my Crop Rotation. My turn two, I draw another Crop Rotation, play Dryad Arbor (stupid summoning sickness), pass, thinking if I can make it one more turn I can Crop Rotate for Karakas and get rid of Griselbrand. His turn two he plays a creature and Liliana of the Veil, makes me sac my Dryad Arbor, moves to combat, and I immediately concede.
The round was over in about three minutes. He said, "I'm gonna teach you why Tormod's Crypt is better than Relic." I was like, "I have a policy in Modern that if my opponent will show me that they're playing Grishoalbrand before turn one, I'll immediately concede. I didn't come here to watch my opponent play while I get to do nothing at all. Looks like I found the Legacy equivalent."
Edited to add: I've never, not a single time in my five weeks of playing this deck, found a time when Dryad Arbor was a help rather than a liability. Is it wrong to just cut it?
I run natural order package. So for me it's a necessity. For others it's a quick blocker of a goblin lack or what not.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer
That version of reanimator is quick and difficult to compete with, but it's also full of air at times. You're best bet is that they stumble a couple turns. Leyline of the Void is a decent add if graveyard decks are an issue for you
Try Faerie Macabre. It works on T0 and laughs at Daze & FoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by cwcomposer