Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
Swords to Plowshares handles Licia, and Stromkirk Noble attacks 7 times for 28 damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
How is this not 0-6 for you?
Printable View
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
Swords to Plowshares handles Licia, and Stromkirk Noble attacks 7 times for 28 damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
How is this not 0-6 for you?
7. PJim: Tundra, Chancellor of the Tangle, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Stormscape Apprentice
vs
1. Asthereal (TO): Tropical Island, Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Daze // 3-3
2. Wrath of Pie: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Myr Superion, Deputy of Detention // 3-3
3. Phasmoid: Mana Confluence, Shivan Sand-Mage, Durkwood Baloth, Corpulent Corpse // 3-3
4. RoosterCocoa: Hickory Woodlot, Twilight Mire, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Fulminator Mage // 0-6
5. dte: Gemstone mine, lightning bolt, serene remembrance, Encroach // 3-3
6. Reeplcheep: Tundra, Daze, cenn’s tactician, Dismember // 3-3
8. alphastryk: Gemstone Mine, Old-Growth Dryads, Encroach, Swords to Plowshares // 3-3
9. H: Badlands, Inkmoth Nexus, Valentin, Dean of the Vein, Furor of the Bitten // 6-0
10. silkster: Undiscovered Paradise, Swords to Plowshares, Swarm Shambler, Evil Presence // 6-0
11. Serguei: Remote Farm, Interplanar beacon, Grist, the Hunger Tide, Kaya, Orzhov Usurper // 0-6, Disagreement I think because Serguei's missed that Grist bypasses Thalia
12. maxx!: Scrubland, Cenn’s Tactician, Encroach, Dismember // 3-3
13. mattamort: Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Tropical Island, Daze // 3-3
14. GoblinSmashmaster: Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune // 6-0, Disagreement, I can tap down Licia forever OTD.
15. Tylert: Karakas, Student of warfare, Dismember, Noxious revival // 0-6
16. FTW: Undiscovered Paradise, Duress, Swords to Plowshares, Stromkirk Noble // 6-0
48 points
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
I get that H wins when H is OTP:
On T1, H casts Dean. H never blocks.
On T2, H plays Inkmoth, uses both lands to
cast Furor on Dean, and then 3/3 Dean attacks.
On each of H’s turns after that, H animates Inkmoth
before combat and attacks with everything that can.
Inkmoth will have flying, so you can’t block it.
Dean has Menace, so you can’t single-block it.
If you double-block Dean, then both of your creatures die,
after which you lose to Inkmoth. Thus, there is no blocking.
If you don’t cast Thalia on T1, then you can’t cast her at all.
In that case you lose because, each of your attacks will be for just 1 and allow Dean to
counterattack for 3, and if you don’t attack then you lose to whichever of Dean , Inkmoth
eventually gets enough attacks through, since you can’t tap both of them in the same turn.
Thus, you cast T1 Thalia and T2 Stormscape Apprentice.
Summoning sickness means Stormscape Apprentice can’t stop H’s T2 or T3 attacks.
After that, Stormscape Apprentice attacking just makes things worse for you
unless it’s for lethal, since your attacks are for at most 3, Dean’s attack
would regain that life, and Inkmoth would give you a poison counter.
Similarly, if Stormscape Apprentice stops Inkmoth from attacking,
then that turn plus the previous turn just makes things worse for you,
since Dean’s attack regains any life H lost and reduces your life total.
Thus, after H’s T3 attacks, unless you double-attacking would be for lethal,
Stormscape Apprentice might-as-well just keep Dean tapped down.
Those two attacks cause you to get 1 poison and H to gain 6 life,
and Thalia’s intervening attack causes H to lose 2 life.
Those result in H having 24 life and you getting only 9 more attacks before you lose to poison.
Thalia only deals 18 damage with those attacks, and since Stormscape Apprentice
only attacks if it’s for lethal, Stormscape Apprentice does not deal more than 1 damage.
That is not enough to kill H, so you lose this game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
I get that OTP GoblinSmashmaster vs PJim OTD is a draw.
GoblinSmashmaster can’t win:
On GSm’s T1, GSm can make Licia on GSm’s T1 and pump her to 7/7. On T1, PJim casts Stormscape Apprentice.
On GSM’s T2, Sorin and Licia can both pump Licia and Licia can attack for 11.
After that, Stormscape Apprentice can tap Licia down forever to stop her from attacking.
Sorin can sacrifice Licia to deal 3 more damage to PJim, but with Licia tapped down forever,
there’s no way for GSm to cause PJim to lose more life than the 11+3, so GSm can’t win.
PJim can't win:
GSm makes Licia on GSm’s T1 and pump her to 7/7, at the cost of 5 life.
If PJim does not cast Thalia on T1, then PJim won’t be able to cast her at all, so each of PJim’s attacks
would be for 1 and allow a counterattack for 7, which is not enough to win even with the 5-life head start.
Thus, PJim casts T1 Thalia. On GSm’s T2, Licia pumps herself to 10/10 at the cost of another 5 life, and then attacks.
If Thalia blocks, then she dies, and attacking for 1 vs counterattacks for 7 is not enough even with a 10-life head start.
Thus Thalia does not block, so PJim goes to 10 life and lifelink brings GSm back to 20 life.
Thalia may or may not attack; suppose she doesn’t tap but GSm takes 2 damage anyway. That brings GSm to 18 life.
On GSm’s T3, Stormscape Apprentice is summoning-sick, so Licia attacks and PJim must block.
If Stormscape Apprentice blocks, then PJim can no longer stop Licia from attacking
and loses to 2 more attacks by her. Thus Thalia blocks, so she dies.
At this point, PJim has a life disadvantage, so PJim’s Stormscape Apprentice can’t even beat a 1/1.
Yeah I don't know why I thought Encroach mattered OTD - clearly WLQuote:
Originally Posted by Phasmoid
Sorry, I've been on holidays and haven't kept up with the other results posts.
I noticed Grist was also a Planeswalker in hand (creature in addition, not instead) and thought Duress would still hit it, but of course it's not a "noncreature" anymore. That affects 2 matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serguei
OTP I play T1 Stromkirk, T2 Duress Kaya and grow Stormkirk to 2/2.
You play T2 Grist and +1 for a token [4 counters].
Dismember can buy me an attack and stall your removal, but you can eventually +1 every turn to chump and then get high enough to keep an Insect and destroy Stromkirk.
LL 0-6
Ah yes, I missed that line. I assumed it was optimal to sequence Sand Mage first so it removes counters from something else, but you have a viable line playing Sand Mage 2nd. If you get all 3 creatures on T6 then I can't beat you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phasmoid
OTP I'll have a 6/6 Stromkirk with you taking 1+2+3+4+5=15 combat damage + 3 mana confluence damage [P=2 life]. Then you get all 3 creatures. I can Dismember the 5/5 but my 6/6 can't get through the 3/3+3/2.
OTD it'll be 5/5 vs 3/3+3/2, also a draw.
DD 2-2
I was about to submit Aether Vial.dec, but I thought T4 Deputy would be too slow against all the T1-T2 combo and prison decks I saw, so I thought I had to play either Daze or Duress to stop them. Daze turned out to be much better than Duress due to Grist being a creature, and Swarm Shambler was a much better colored Chrono than Stromkirk Noble! The combo decks I feared didn't appear. I also thought more people would use the Spell Lands to cheat colored mana symbols in land slots, and Duress looked good against that since they count as nonlands in hand.
I agree with Phasmoid. WD 4-1 here.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
OTD you can tap down Licia but how do you actually win the game?
Licia kills T3.
T1 7/7 Licia (-5 life)
T2 11/11 Licia attacks (+1 Sorin, -5 life)
T3 12/12-15/15 Licia attacks again
If you cast Thalia, you can only start tapping on your turn 3 (opponent's turn 4). Gobbo probably saw that and thought it was a win.
If you skip Thalia you can start tapping on your turn 2 (opponent's turn 3), but then have no win condition. Draw.
Same thing here. Just having a tapper in the decklist isn't enough to automatically beat a big attacker. You need the tempo to do it and also attack back.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Inkmoth and Dean are both dangerous clocks (relative to your 2/1 and 1/1). You can tap down Dean but then Inkmoth gets in damage and races. Agree with Phasmoid.
Still missing four results, and many of us are slow to respond.
Do we need a break for the summer holidays?
We could take a month. See eachother second half of August.
It was suggested before, but I'm starting to feel we might need it.
Let me know how you feel about this idea.
H: Badlands, Inkmoth Nexus, Valentin, Dean of the Vein, Furor of the Bitten
vs
me: Mana Confluence, Shivan Sand-Mage, Durkwood Baloth, Corpulent Corpse
I conclude that I win both games in this match.
My sequence is Sand-Mage , Baloth , Corpse . That costs me 3 life.
Sand-Mage targets Baloth, so both of those enter on T5.
Dean gets at most 4 attacks before my T5, so on my T5,
I will have at least 5 life and you will have at most 32 life.
if Dean is Furious on my T5:
You must have tapped Badlands for Furor on one of
T2,T3,T4,T5 , so Inkmoth missed at least 1 attack.
As a result, Inkmoth can’t kill me before T12.
I don’t attack on T5. Dean must attack, and I double-block.
That results in Dean trading for Sand-Mage, so you gain 3 life and can create a Pest.
You go to at most 35 life. Suppose you don’t create a Pest.
If Inkmoth doesn’t block, then Baloth + T8 Corpse kill you on T11.
That is before T12, so Inkmoth would block. That would be a chump block, so I would still win.
Thus you do create a Pest. Creating the Pest requires paying :2:
between my T5 and my T6, so Inkmoth can’t attack on that turn of yours.
That is another missed attack by Inkmoth, so it can’t kill me before T13.
On my turns 6 and 7, Baloth attacks. On my turns 8 and 9, Baloth and Corpse attack.
Those only let the Pest deal 4 damage with counterattacks, so I reach my T10 with at least 1 life.
If Inkmoth blocked, then it was a chump and your 1/1 loses to my two bigger creatures.
If Pest did not block, then you took 26 damage, leaving you with at most 9 life.
If Pest did block, then you take 5 less damage and gained 1 life, leaving you with at most 15 life.
In the latter case, I attack with everything to win no later than T12.
Thus, Pest does not block before my T10, so you have at most 9 life.
On my T10, Baloth attacks while Corpse stays back for defense.
If Inkmoth blocks, then your 1/1 loses to my two bigger creatures.
If Pest blocks, then you go to at most 10 life and I attack with everything on T11 and T12,
forcing Inkmoth to block. That would be a chump block, so I would still win.
Thus you don’t block, so you go to at most 4 life.
On my T11, again Baloth attacks while Corpse stays back for defense.
This time you must block. If Inkmoth blocks, then your 1/1 loses to my two bigger creatures.
Thus Pest blocks, leaving you with at most 5 life and Inkmoth as your only threat.
Your next turn is at most T12, so 1 attack from it doesn’t kill me.
On the other hand, 1 unblocked attack from Baloth kills you, so I win no later than T13 in this case.
if Dean is not Furious on my T5:
Making Inkmoth Furious doesn’t help, since you have no other mana to animate
and attack in the same turn, and the aura would fall off in your end step.
When Sand-Mage and Baloth enter, I have at least 13 life and you have at most 24 life.
As long as you have not made Dean Furious, I keep attacking with everything that can.
If you don’t block, then this deals 8+8+8+11 = 35 damage to you on my turns 5,6,7,8
respectively, whereas non-Furious Dean deals at most 3 damage in the meantime,
so you must block or make Dean Furious no later than my T8.
If you block with both without having made Dean Furious, other than both on Sand-Mage,
then you end up with no creatures while I still have threats, which is a win for me.
If you double-block Sand-Mage without having made Dean Furious, then that costs you
Inkmoth and Dean, while killing Sand-Mage and maybe giving you a Pest.
(If I remember the mana rules correctly, you can’t actually
get the Pest, but I’m not sure so I’ll suppose you can.)
Once that happens, Baloth stays back if able until Corpse enters, if Corpse hasn’t already entered.
Your Pest deals at most 3 damage to me in the meantime, either by Furiously attacking before
Baloth untaps, or via up to 3 attacks with all-but-the-first enabled by making Baloth Furious.
In either case, that leaves me with with at least 7 life and Corpse
on the battlefield, and two at-least-3-power creatures beat a at-most-3/3,
even if you can make one of my creatures attack each combat if able.
If Inkmoth blocks alone without you having made Dean Furious, then that puts a -1/-1 counter on
one of my creatures but is otherwise a chump block, and means you can’t ever pay for a Pest.
My creatures would still have power at least 2,4,2 , so any double-block by me would kill Dean.
With Inkmoth gone, I stay on defense if able until Corpse enters, if Corpse hasn’t already entered.
Even with a -1/-1 counter, making one of my creatures Furious would also make that
creature big-enough to kill Dean, so you can’t make me suicide any of my creatures.
Dean deals at most 3 more damage to me, either by Furiously attacking before my creatures untap,
or via up to 3 attacks with all-but-the-first enabled by making one of my creatures Furious.
That leaves me with at least 7 life and all three of my creatures on the battlefield.
Once I get that, Baloth attacks alone unless one of my creatures
is Furious, in which case the Furious creature attacks alone.
Dean attacking results in it dying to a double-block, so Dean can’t deal damage to me
and can’t gain you more than 3 life, and Dean blocking results in it dying to my attacker,
so I win if Inkmoth blocks alone without you having made Dean Furious.
If non-Furious Dean blocks alone, then that is a chump block and means you can’t ever get a Pest.
After that, my creatures all keep attacking. Dean got at most 3 attacks and 1 block since my T5 started,
but 35-(24+4) = 7 > max(3,5,3) , so Inkmoth will also need to block to avoid you losing by my T8.
That leaves you with no creatures while I sill have threats, which is a win for me.
Thus you must make Dean Furious before you block and no later than my T8.
Since Furor of the Bitten doesn’t have Flash, that means before my T8.
The turn after you do, if Corpse entered then Baloth attacks alone else I don’t attack.
Either Dean chump-blocks Baloth that turn or on your next turn, Dean attacks,
I double-block, and Dean trades with one of my 3-power creatures.
In each case, I resume attacking with everything that can.
You get 3 attacks between my T5 and my T8, so from the start of my T5
until Dean’s death, he deals at most 8 damage, at most 5 of which is to me.
That leaves me with at least 8 life and you with life
at most 32 minus however much damage I dealt to you.
If Dean chump-blocked Baloth, then that was on T8 (otherwise Baloth would’ve stayed back)
and I dealt 8+8+8 = 24 damage to you on my previous 3 turns, leaving you with 8 life.
You gain at most 1 more life, and can’t stop more than 10 of the (3+5+3)+(3+5+3) = 22
damage that would result from 2 unblocked attacks by each of my 3 creatures, so
you would lose on T10, whereas the earliest Inkmoth could possibly kill me is T11.
Thus Dean does not chump Baloth, so it trades for one of my 3-power creatures.
Since this is still part of the “Dean is not Furious on my T5”
case, you didn’t trade that turn, so you took 8 damage that turn.
The minimal amount of damage you could’ve taken is from making Dean Furious the next turn,
so that I hold back Baloth rather than another 3-power creature and you don’t
take extra damage from the 3-power creature that Dean is going to trade for.
If you do that, then in the absence of you blocking,
you would take 0,5,8 damage in my turns 6,7,8 respectively.
That would leave you with 32-(8+5+8) = 11 life as my T8 ends.
In particular, if you didn’t and don’t block, then you lose to my T10 attacks,
whereas the earliest Inkmoth could possibly kill me is T11.
If you didn’t make a Pest, then your only block is a chump with Inkmoth, which just slows down your loss.
Thus you did make a Pest. That requires tapping
Inkmoth for mana after my T5, so it misses an attack.
As a result, Inkmoth can’t kill me before T12.
Since Dean was not Furious on my T5, the earliest I could’ve held back
was T6, so the earliest you could’ve gotten the Pest was between my T6
and my T7, and before T12 there are only 5 attacks that you might block.
As a result, the most damage you can avoid with a single-block is Inkmoth blocking
Baloth on T7 to also reduce by 1 the amount of damage Baloth deals on turns 8,9,10,11.
That avoids 9 damage, but otherwise would’ve had only 11 life as my T8 ends,
and I would deal 24 damage to you in total during my turns 9,10,11.
As mentioned, Inkmoth can’t kill me before T12. The earliest you can get
the Pest is T6, so that would take even longer to deal 8 damage to me.
Thus you block with both of you creatures, but that leaves you
with no creatures and me with at least a 4/4 Baloth, so I still win.
I prefer to keep going, but without strong opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Sorry, i'm in hollidays with a few times to access internet...Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I'd be okay for a break.
If it makes sense, I'm certainly ok taking a break as long as we set a clear date for when we restart so that I can remember.
Yesterday we lost access to the site, so I couldn't start the next round anyway, even if I wanted.
So for the really short term: I won't start the next round this week.
I'll wait a bit for people to respond to my question whether they need a summer break, and announce what we'll do in the next couple of days, hopefully.
So if you haven't yet, please answer the question below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I thought it was just me, given the message about IP address being banned, but it sounds like the whole site was down.
Apparently it was maintenance issues. (I actually sent a message through the convenient form which was the only thing that could be accessed.)Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
Yah I am getting married and taking a honeymoon over the next month; I can barely submit decent decks as-is.
I would appreciate a break.
Congrats! Good reasons to be less focused on our gameQuote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
I'd be fine to keep going, but it sounds like some of us could use a break, so that's probably for the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
Congrats Reep!
(And glad I'm not actually IP banned)
Big congratulations :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
I think I'm of the same opinion as Alphastryk. Preference is not to break, but I certainly don't mind it. And having a clear restart date would be nice. I thought we were restarting earlier in January and I checked for a few weeks and found nothing and then after all that I missed the start!Quote:
Originally Posted by alphastryk
I am slightly in favor of a break.
Also, I'm addressing a disagreement in the results.
Asthereal (TO): Tropical Island, Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Daze
and
mattamort: Durkwood Baloth, Dismember, Tropical Island, Daze
vs
silkster: Undiscovered Paradise, Swords to Plowshares, Swarm Shambler, Evil Presence
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattamort
I didn't see an analysis post from silkster, but silkster'sQuote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
row in the spreadsheet has 6 for both of these entries.
I believe silkster gets WW in these:
Evil Presence handles Daze, since either Daze gets cast to counter
Evil Presence or Daze will subsequently never be able to be cast.
StP handles Baloth, since silkster has time for
Evil Presence , Swarm Shambler , untap
before Durkwood Baloth can enter the battlefield.
If Dismember kills Swarm Shambler, then silkster gets a 1/1 Insect,
so silkster will still have a threat to win with.
I'm OK either way. It sounds like some players could use a break though.
If we proceed, I'll keep playing but will have less time and energy to check results for a few weeks.
Yeah, I am good with a break. But, really, I think I am going to "drop" from this season. I just have not had the time to think about my entries and do my analyses.
Hopefully by next season I will have a bit more time, but I think we have enough players to sustain us for now without me slowing this down.
I wanted to make a decision in the past few days, but I was gone for the weekend, and the days before were a bit of a mess.
In my area there were floodings, which was weird and caused all sorts of problems. Thankfully my place was safe, but villages around Maastricht weren't so lucky.
(There were quite a number of fatalities in Germany and Belgium, where the valleys are steaper than in my region.)
Anyway. I decided to go for the break. There's too many people unable to post regularly, which delays the rounds (bannathon, so we need the results).
Let's put the deadline for next round to Wednesday the 25th of AUGUST.
About current round:
I see silk tried to post scores but couldn't enter the website at that moment. This has been resolved, but his disagreements haven't.
Two of them are with mattamort and me. I shamelessly stole matta's results without checking, and see matta probably missed the fact that Evil Presence makes us unable to cast Daze.
So I fear we lose that matchup 6-0 instead of winning it by said score, just like Phasmoid posted.
The others are with dte and FTW. I think dte missed how bad Encroach is OTD against Undiscovered Paradise (or that Bolting the Shambler nets silk a 1/1 token). Looks like 3-3 to me.
I think FTWs analysis is solid. I don't see how he wins a game, so I'm inclined to chalk up a 2-2 there.
Also I did napkin math to figure out scores between H, Reep and Tylert, who haven't been able to post results yet.
Reep-H looks like 6-0 (Daze the Valentin, Dismember the Nexus and the creature wins it).
Reep-Tylert looks like a typical trading of resources into 2-2.
H-Tylert looks like 0-6, as Tylert can Dismember two guys and H's aura doesn't stop that.
If there scores are correct, and everybody who posted scores have posted them correctly, we would end up with:
1. Wrath of Pie: 66 - 4,4
2. silkster: 61 - 4,1
3. RoosterCocoa: 54 - 3,6
4. alphastryk: 53 - 3,5
5. dte: 52 - 3,5
6. maxx!: 50 - 3,3
7. PJim: 46 - 3,1
8. Serguei: 44 - 2,9
9. Asthereal (TO): 38 - 2,5
9. Phasmoid: 38 - 2,5
9. Reeplcheep: 38 - 2,5
9. mattamort: 38 - 2,5
13. GoblinSmashmaster: 37 - 2,5
14. Tylert: 34 - 2,3
15. FTW: 32 - 2,1
16. H: 4 - 0,3
And these bannings:
Aether Vial
Chancellor of the Tangle
Deputy of Detention
Evil Presence
Fulminator Mage
Grist, the Hunger Tide
Hickory Woodlot
Myr Superion
Swarm Shambler
Swords to Plowshares
Twilight Mire
Undiscovered Paradise
EDIT: and these are the standings in the season after round 8:
1. Tylert: 29,6
2. Serguei: 28,9
3. dte: 28,4
4. silkster: 27,7
5. mattamort: 27
6. FTW: 26,9
7. GoblinSmashmaster: 25,1
8. PJim: 25
9. maxx!: 23,7
10. alphastryk: 23,4
11. RoosterCocoa: 19,5
12. Wrath of Pie: 19,3
13. Reeplcheep: 18,7
14. Asthereal (TO): 14,3
15. Phasmoid: 13,8
16. jhhdk: 12
17. H: 10
18. shiftyhomunculus: 3,1
Back from vacation.
I think it's probably for the best i didn't participate in the last round.
I completely misunderstood the round rule which also made it kind of difficult to construct a deck (didn't read thread for last 3 weeks either).
I read "Non-land cards in deck must contain at least 3 different mana symbols" as
"Each non-land card in decks must contain at least 3 different mana symbols."
I see wording has been updated since, but I am pretty sure that whatever deck I would've submitted abiding by my initial interpretation of rules would've given m the same score for round as I got by being away :smile:.
No replies anymore on my thoughts on the undecided matches, so I'm locking in the bannings.
If scores change, I'll of course make sure the correct ones are used for the season standings, but the bannings are now final, even if they would change because of changes in scores.
So this allows me to create my deck, open the round and then take a nice big holiday. Let's gooo! :cool:
ROUND 9 OF SEASON 10: DEVIANT LEGACY BANNATHON has started.
This round we play Go Big Or Go Home: All non-land cards in your deck must have mana value 3 or greater.
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 9, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 25th of August at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Mountain, Quicksand, Desert, Suq'Ata Lancer.
So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S10R09 in the topic.
Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deck building! :smile:
Are sets legal if the round starts after their release, or if decks are due after their release? AFR wouldn't be legal if the former, though we might make an exception given the big break.
Separately, are Jumpstart: HH cards going to be legal? Obviously we can handle the elements that don't work for paper in this format. Persistent effects and Conjuring could be very impactful if there are good enough cards. Some of the random cards have ridiculous branching possibilities, but given our randomness rule I think all the ones shown thus far would always be useless.
Historic is interesting because it's becoming effectively a self-contained format in which it has cards that won't be legal elsewhere (even in Vintage!), and given that their legality is obvious as in not legal unless we specifically play Historic.
About AFR: I already received several decks, and I had to create my own before the set came out.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
So it seems wrong to allow it for this ongoing round. Adventures in the Forgotten Realms will become legal next round.
(EDITED) About Jumpstart Historic Horizons: I had overlooked this launch somehow, but let's have a look. But now properly. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons is the second Jumpstart set that comes out.
It's an Arena only release, so no paper, no Legacy/Vintage/Modern/... legality. Yet it's a normal release with normal cards, so I think we can have the new cards be legal in our current season until they get banned.
And as Jumpstart Historic Horizons launches on August 12th, it too will be legal from next round onwards. But I'll have to look at the mechanics. I haven't checked it at all yet.
Okay, after a quick look, my interpretation is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
-Perpetually: no problem. It functions as an aura but without being an aura. "Target creature perpetually gets +3/+3."
-Conjure: this is a bit weird. Sarkhan, Wanderer to Shiv has "Conjure a Shivan Dragon card into your hand." So that looks like "create a token card named Shivan Dragon and put it into your hand." Which you can then cast, or discard and reanimate. It might die and get put into your graveyard where you can interact with it again, and so on. If my interpretation is correct, this is very strong and violates the 4CB idea somewhat. But a card that costs 4 mana should be strong, and we can easily handle the 5th card, play-wise. So perhaps also not a problem? We can always decide to ban the ones that are dominating our game.
There's some confusion here. The original Jumpstart launched on July 17th last year, and has the legality you posted, and I've been assuming (presumably correctly) that it's been legal the entire time I've been here. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons is the new set, and doesn't get a physical release, it's an Arena only product. It's legal for Historic, which is a sanctioned format, but not for Legacy and the rest. The gimmick is the card effects that are easily handled in a digital game, but wouldn't work well with physical cards, so it's unlikely they'd ever be legal in paper formats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I don't personally see a reason to exclude them, as they are real cards for a sanctioned format, and not Un- or otherwise weird cards, and they should work fine in 4CB. But the fact they're not legal in paper formats does make them something different to everything else that's legal.
Bad research by me from my holiday location leads to bad posts. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
I indeed confused the two sets. I read July 17th as release date, then read August 12th and the fact that it was pushed back and just assumed I was looking at the same release.
But you're right: the new Jumpstart (Jumpstart: Historic Horizons) is an Arena only release. But I think we can keep it anyway.
As you said, it's not Unglued or equivalent. It's normal cards with normal ideas, and I don't see a reason to exclude it for now.
(Edited original post to remove nonsense.)
Not legal for Legacy, thus not legal for this season. Seems simple enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by PJim
Legacy is just the name for the paper format. Jumpstart: Historic Horizons isn't a paper launch, but 4CB also isn't a paper format.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
I don't see a problem with allowing it from next round onwards.
It sets a bad precedent. We should finish the season as-is and figure out what we want to do with the Historic-exclusive cards once the season is over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
(Also, Legacy isn't really a paper format anymore, but that's another argument entirely.)
I don't see how it's a bad precedent. It's a new set, albeit an Arena only one. The cards see play in a competitive format, albeit an online one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie
Lately I've been playing mostly Arena (draft > constructed, imo), and I think I'm not the only one.
Paper magic just wasn't an option for over a year because of the pandemic, which caused Arena to grow enormeously, so it's no wonder it gets exclusive releases now.
But I guess my playing and enjoying Arena has made me less interested in paper, where that might have been different 5 years ago when I still played paper only.
We could keep the historic only sets out of 4CB until the end of the season if enough people feel like that's the best thing to do.
Everybody: sound off below what you think: hit the breaks on Jumpstart: Historic Horizons? Or just have it be legal from next round onwards?
Don't care. can be legal next round.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I have no opinion either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I vote not legal.
Same here, I feel very strongly that these are not real magic cards and they don't fit into our game regardless of format legality, timing etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dte