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I was pondering - it's sad we don't play a great bunch of clerics (or that Vet Ex & DRS aren't clerics and that most decent/good clerics aren't GSZ'able). Starlit Sanctum is such a sweet card. Also, most (yes, I know, I'm skipping over Mother of Runes) playable clerics start @3 mana+. So there's that.
Finally got to play a few games with Meren in my Junk list against a friend on Shardless BUG. Won 3 out of 4 pretty handedly. Anyway, holy buckets is Meren good. He kept insisting that I had to have experience counters to get creatures out of the yard, but then I read it to him again and his response was "holy shit thats gross." Even without experience counters she is good. Just getting a vet back to my hand and pay a measly 1 mana for a chump blocker and ramp every turn is worth it. I kind of just want to sell my Recurring Nightmare now and get my money back.
Hmm, where did I hear that before..? LolQuote:
Originally Posted by tilzinger
Can't wait to try her out! First reaction was 'woah, big potential'. Now with these reports back of how good she is, I think we've found ourselves a new lady friend :cool:
Junk w/ Meren -> Junk in the Trunk Fit?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
Thanks Ralf, I have considered strangleroot but am really after the life gain.
Yes Meren is such a house.
@Echelon, I was playing with highmarket but every time I drew it I wish it was a phyrexian tower, So I made it a phyrexian tower. And I think you're going a bit over the top on the sac lands, 10 is a lot. I'd cut them before the 3rd forest if you want to keep getting lands with your second/third vet explorer.
And I generally think 21+dryad arbor is too few lands, I'm looking for veteran explorer and a sac outlet in my opening hand I don't want to risk not having land drops there to go with it. Hence the utility lands, mane lands and card draw though to mitigate.
Finally, no one got any love for ob Nixilis, reignited? I think I like him more than Ajani, he always draws you card and he can defend you too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
Ajani is better for making everything a threat. Ob doesn't always come down and kill something. I tried him and I was happier with ajani. Garruk is still an option but GGG is hard sometimes. I cut pw all together for now. Meren is my pw atm.
Ricardio, don't agree on Ajani over Ob, but do agree on Meren
Also, do you mind flicking back a page, I asked you some questions regarding online legacy play, if you'd be so kind :)
Would you guys say that Meren is better than Recurring Nightmare?
If so, I think I just might have to make a cut. I was initially underwhelmed with Meren, but you guys are really talking her up so I might have to try again.
Unless playing a tutor to get nightmare, it is basically easier to play Meren.
At least Meren does bringing something on an empty board.
Meren is GSZable, Decay and bolt proof.
And if you are gravehated, Meren is a legendary 3/4 for CMC 4.
But to get out the best of its ability, I truly think a POD shell is where I would start.
Be cautious to miss the experience counter trigger G2 & G3 to get around Containment priest and Grafdigger's cage.
Dang magic online, impossible to miss triggers :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
Too bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Get rid of cage or priest, then :cool:
This is an old revamped list (from Qweerios) including Meren (instead of Resto angel) and a few black nasty b.
I'm still pondering about the 2nd veteran (with 1 more forest and 1 less fetch like I was used to be playing) but this means I would have to cut either fleshbag or shriekmaw.
Anyway, my friends are sweating hard at the moment.
Spoiler: Meren is a dirty b.
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Marsh Flats
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Shriekmaw
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Wall of Blossoms
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Birthing Pod
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 Nahiri, the Lithomancer
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 2 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
Being stone cold to a glacial chasm without nightmare worries me but it seems like people are loving it being on meren instead of it. Playing meren makes vindicate more necessary if also still running intent .
Edited for clarification.
Or if you don't like POD:
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Veteran Explorer
3 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Painful Truths
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Swords to Plowshares
DRS ? Rhino looping for lists playing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
If your LGS is full of lands / 12 post, you should not play Nic Fit, imho, unless you are playing a rockish list like I posted above (as a few pages back also) and bet everything you have on sticking a lili until its ulti.
But that is just me.
You can also play fringe cards like Crumble to Dust, Armageddon, or Ruination in your sideboard if you really want to take Nic Fit into that metagame; it won't be the best, but at least you will have a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
If you're getting Chasm locked, that;s exactly why you're playing Rhino for the loops and DRS, I totally agree. Lands isn't a great matchup in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
I'm not at my computer atm. I will update when I get a chance. Ob is worse imho but that's the beauty of this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
@Ricardio, what's playing legacy on modo like?
It's fun. Can't miss triggers and blue everywhere.
How often do events fire?
I would say 80%+ dailies fire.
Is it regular?
Ya. Only one had not started that I joined.
I'm in the UK and worry that events won't fire when I'm interested. What's the EV like playing in events? Is it worth just playing legacy on there or do you do other formats too?
I play for the love of the deck. If you win more often than lose you are fine. Good day gov'nah from across the pond.
I really wanna join you on the daily listings :)
Hope to see you there, bud.
My lack of punctuation and complete sentences made my point of cutting nightmare hurting already bad matchups completely incomprehensible. I don't have a lgs that supports legacy so scg opens were my only real venue of tournament play. As such many of my card choices play to a wider field of possibilities and accepting i can't always dodge bad matchups and would rather still have some game.
That manabase has allowed me to hardcast Elesh Norn & bigger on a regular basis. Getting lands with Veteran Explorer has never since the inception of this list and manabase (several years ago) been a problem. And if you have all your basics out, that means you're @7 mana. Do you really care that much about your Explorer trigger at that point..? I don't think so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
As for stuff you want in your opening hand: That's why you need to hit a certain number of initial mana sources for that to work, with fetch counting as all 3 colours. You do understand what happens when you cut down on fetches..? Those numbers go down, unless you swap more basics for duals, which in turn would worsen the second/third Explorer you're so worried about. Having a lower count of initial manasources causes you to not have the initial land drops you need more often. Unless Bayou magically taps for G, B or W.
The number of initial sources for any given colour are more important than the total number of lands (since in a way that also dictates how many lands you must run in order to hit said numbers). Less fetches = higher (coloured and often total) land count when building a deck that wants to run three colours.
While we're running numbers concerning opening hands anyways: Running a 21 land manabase gives you a 3,96% chance of not having any land in your opening 7 and a 59,55% chance to hit the sweetspot of 2 to 3 land. When upping the count to 22 land, those odds change to 3,23% and 59,61%, respectively. You're not going to tell me you notice a 0,06% increase in having 2 or 3 hands in your opening hand. You just can't. To plead your case (I'm not a total asshole), when deciding we'd mulligan every hand with 0 or 1 land you'd go from mulliganing 3,23 + 15,60 = 18,83% to 3,96 + 17,88 = 21,84% which would be a 21,84 - 18,83 = 3,01% or once every 33 games increase. Which in my opinion is too small to care about.