[Deck] 43 Lands

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sarahiscute

hi, ok after much thought..i am gona go with this deck list: still considering putting in 1 x zuran orb

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You can drop ancient tomb for urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, it will do the same thing (combo with 3 lands), with the upside of all your mazes, tabernacle, ... producing mana as well.
I wonder how Cephalid Coliseum will work out, cause it comes at the cost of dropping rishadan port, but it does dig for pieces or loam (although it has threshold, and might be too slow). You should run tropical Island since you have 4 lands that need blue to be activated, instead of the mountain. I would also try to add a 4th fetchland (because youre a little low on G-producing lands).

can't find any tropical island..looks like blue mana will have to come from mox diamond or use thespian stage to copy Cephalid Coliseum or opponent's lands if required .LOL.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath---------cant find 1 more Wooded Foothills.
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire

total: 61 cards

//Sideboard-- copy from Kurt Speiss
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sarahiscute

can't find any tropical island..looks like blue mana will have to come from mox diamond or use thespian stage to copy Cephalid Coliseum or opponent's lands if required .LOL.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 Cephalid Coliseum
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
2 Taiga
2 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath---------cant find 1 more Wooded Foothills.
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
4 Punishing Fire

total: 61 cards

//Sideboard-- copy from Kurt Speiss
SB: 1 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

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Having Academy Ruins, Coliseum and Zuran Orb seems very poor without a fetchable blue source. I also never liked the 4 fetch, 3 fetchable lands configuration in RG Lands. Why not just run more Taigas? I imagine the upside of having more lands that actually make mana outweighs the amount of games where you randomly get screwed by an opponent burning all his Wastelands on your Taigas.

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Originally Posted by Tyrio

I also never liked the 4 fetch, 3 fetchable lands configuration in RG Lands. Why not just run more Taigas? I imagine the upside of having more lands that actually make mana outweighs the amount of games where you randomly get screwed by an opponent burning all his Wastelands on your Taigas.

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Obviously fetchlands synergize with Loam, but with only three fetchable lands that might be marginal. On the other hand, the situations where a third Taiga would 'do' something seem fringe as well. I think the configuration might just be a relic of three color builds (4 Fetch, 2 Taiga, 1 Bayou). Guess I will go to three Taiga, three Fetch once I pick up a third Taiga ;)

Curious on what peoples' thoughts on Smokestack is in this deck? Even if you just use Exploration/Manabond to replace lands you just sacced, Smokestack would eat up the opponent's board in a hurry.. particularly if you are porting/Ith'ing away what's left while you assemble the combo. You remain basically constant in terms of permanent count the whole time. I guess it really comes down to if you want to just go for the combo or go for the lock.

I was playing against a mono blue deck and Ghost Quarter wasn't doing much.. he kept hunting for basics. I had 2 powered ports out, Tabernacle, Ith and he was still getting through.. it wasn't until I was down to 2 and Glacial Chasm came up that I got the lock. Until then none of my effects were "permanent" enough. I feel like Smokestack would have been pretty brutal for my opponent here since I had 2 Loams cycling and 2 Explorations out. Can always just dump the Smokestack to itself too when it has served its purpose. Raven's Crime would have been nice too, but the threats were already there. I did not have Grove/PFire online at the moment (dredged up a Grove near the end of the game).

Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by justfortherecord

Curious on what peoples' thoughts on Smokestack is in this deck? Even if you just use Exploration/Manabond to replace lands you just sacced, Smokestack would eat up the opponent's board in a hurry.. particularly if you are porting/Ith'ing away what's left while you assemble the combo. You remain basically constant in terms of permanent count the whole time. I guess it really comes down to if you want to just go for the combo or go for the lock.

I was playing against a mono blue deck and Ghost Quarter wasn't doing much.. he kept hunting for basics. I had 2 powered ports out, Tabernacle, Ith and he was still getting through.. it wasn't until I was down to 2 and Glacial Chasm came up that I got the lock. Until then none of my effects were "permanent" enough. I feel like Smokestack would have been pretty brutal for my opponent here since I had 2 Loams cycling and 2 Explorations out. Can always just dump the Smokestack to itself too when it has served its purpose. Raven's Crime would have been nice too, but the threats were already there. I did not have Grove/PFire online at the moment (dredged up a Grove near the end of the game).

Thoughts?

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Raise EE count to kill things that need to be removed (TNN) and stop messing around with stack. EE removes the threat in one turn and loam+twest makes it more consistent vs countermagic. Intuition is having one hell of a time resolving here, so don't bank on having virtual 4-5 copies of stack. Stack can kill basics faster than quartering vs a monocolored deck yes, but they can pitch lands and/or a fresh permanent to stack for multiple turns. You will have then achieved nothing against the aggro deck from beating your face and have now wasted the invested mana in the endeavor.

since many players playing lands like to play artefact with blue. i created a lands deck with artifact but no blues---only red and green.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Buried Ruin-----------------------some say its no good. it take artifact from graveyard and put into your hand--seem good to me. academy ruins put the artifact to the top of library.
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb---------------this or ensnaring bridge or winter orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
2 Engineered Explosives-------feel like changing to Nevinyrral's Disk or oblivion stone. EE require colours and i only have R&G. with exploration and mana bond i should be able to get it out fast.
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
2 Punishing Fire

//Sideboard
SB: 3 defense grid
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sarahiscute

since many players playing lands like to play artefact with blue. i created a lands deck with artifact but no blues---only red and green.

//Lands
2 Dark Depths
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Karakas
3 Buried Ruin-----------------------some say its no good. it take artifact from graveyard and put into your hand--seem good to me. academy ruins put the artifact to the top of library.
1 Glacial Chasm
2 Maze of Ith
4 Rishadan Port
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Forest
2 Taiga
3 Tranquil Thicket
4 Thespian's Stage
1 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Wasteland

//Spells
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zuran Orb---------------this or ensnaring bridge or winter orb
2 Manabond
4 Exploration
4 Gamble
3 Life from the Loam
2 Engineered Explosives-------feel like changing to Nevinyrral's Disk or oblivion stone. EE require colours and i only have R&G. with exploration and mana bond i should be able to get it out fast.
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond
2 Punishing Fire

//Sideboard
SB: 3 defense grid
SB: 4 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 1 Primeval Titan
SB: 1 Crop Rotation
SB: 3 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Dark Depths

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Did I just read Winter Orb? You can't be serious xD

so, did anyone on the source play lands @ dallas?

gosh where can i get that sweet tabernacle playmat...

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Originally Posted by movingtonewao

gosh where can i get that sweet tabernacle playmat...

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It was custom made. :(

I want one too.

Milwaukee Legacy Open Tournament Report

Hey, I recently top 16'd with Lands at SCG Milwaukee on April 6th, I thought I'd take time out of my ridiculously busy schedule to give you guys a tournament report, cuz why not? That's what Lands players do for eachother.

So the decklist can be found here but I'll post it anyways:

LANDS (real lands, not the poser glass-cannon combo version)
1 Forest
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Glacial Chasm
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Rishadan Port
1 Taiga
3 Thespian's Stage
3 Tolaria West
3 Tropical Island
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Dark Depths
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Mox Diamond
1 Zuran Orb
4 Exploration
3 Crop Rotation
3 Intuition
3 Punishing Fire
4 Life from the Loam

Sideboard:
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Krosan Grip

The credit for the decklist goes to my good friend Tom McLeod who made top 8 at a previous SCG Open a while back.

Alright, let's get this report underway:

Round 1: Some-random-scrub.dec
G1: I assembled Depths-Stage by turn 5 and had no idea what he was even playing, all I saw was like Creeping Tar Pit and Drowned Catacomb and he played literally no spells.
G2: He took a one-lander and had to discard a Pacifism which left me utterly befuddled, but I killed him quickly and turned in my match slip with 30+ min to spare.
1-0

Round 2: Pox
G1: I see basic swamps and Mishra's Factories. I smile. "Hymn to Tourach you." Discards Tolaria West, Maze of Ith. "Cast Life from the Loam." Pox is a great matchup, they try to cut you off cards and lands when you can cast a spell and get them all back. They do nothing that you care about and have no interaction with Dark Depths. Easy Win.
G2: He brings in Leyline of the Void, but luckily I don't care. I have Dark Depths in hand. I cast Intuition for 3x Thespian's Stage and win game 2.
2-0

Round 3: ANT
G1: Game 1 the ideal plan is to go for the kill ASAP, but I couldn't make that happen soon enough. I try to cut him off mana as much as I can with Rishadan Port, but he Ad Nauseums and kills me. The funny thing was that he bricked super hard too. revealing Past in Flames and Tendrils of Agony forced him to go down to 1 life with Ad Nauseum to find what he needed, had I saved the mana from Rishadan Port I would have had Punishing Fire in hand to take game 1, but I still made the correct play, you can never count on them bricking that hard.
G2: Sideboard in 4 Chalice and 4 Sphere taking out 1 Chasm, 1 Tabernacle, 3 Maze of Ith, 1 Karakas, 1 Engineered Explosives, and 1 Punishing Fire (the only things that matter are Crop Rotations for Bojuka Bog, and your sideboard cards, even Orb is too slow usually, but you still leave it in, and you leave in at least 1 Punishing Fire for Dark Confidant. ) He tries to storm and I cast Crop Rotation for Bog in response to his Cabal Ritual, cutting him off the mana he needed to make his math work and forcing him to end the run (netrunner fans? anyone?). I then found Sphere of Resistance and played it. He Ad Nauseum'd trying to stack his hand and find bounce (which he did) and passed after discarding down, keeping the Chain of Vapor in hand for the following turn. My next draw was Chalice of the Void which I cast for x=1 seeing how he was tapped out. He sighed and when I got Dark Depths he scooped and when went to a third game.
G3: My deck loved me. I drew an opener with multiple lock pieces. He Thoughtseized away a Sphere and seeing my Chalice still in hand he played out an LED and a Lotus Petal. I played Mox Diamond and a land, cast Chalice on 0 (which may have been a misplay, but casting it on 0 is SO GOOD against storm, it's usually better than 1) and cast the Sphere of Resistance I just drew making my opponent cringe. I developed my manabase and played another Sphere in the next couple turns and then dredged LFTL and flipped Dark Depths, Thespian Stage, Tropical Island into the bin. That was game.
3-0

Round 4: Death and Taxes
G1: Can I just say that I love how DnT is a seeing a lot of play now? It can't beat Lands, it's so unfair. They play land disruption, but poorly compared to Lands so they only set themselves back and open themselves up for counter land-destruction by playing things like Rishadan Port and Karakas, and they play a field of duders that put up so little of a clock that I actually sideboard out Glacial Chasm and they all die to Punishing Fire. Easy win.
G2: Sideboard In: 3 Abrupt Decay, 1 Engineered Explosives/ Out: Bog, Chasm, Orb, 1 Crop Rotation. They bring in Rest in Peace and that's basically it, Abrupt Decay and EE counter Rest in Peace and you've still got a great match up. Easy win. ALSO, I know people know this, but some people don't... if your opponent plays RIP say "okay" if they don't announce the exile trigger or pick up their own graveyard before they move to the next thing then the trigger has been missed and the cards you have in your yard stay there.
4-0

Round 5: Merfolk
G1: Hadn't played against Merfolk in a while, but I knew moreorless what to do. I kept him off mana with Ports and assembled the depths combo. I punted game 1 however and my opponent may also have cheated, but I know it wasn't intentional if it indeed happened. I was faced with an Aether Vial on 2 and had assembled the combo and decided to pop it on my end step to play around Wasteland. I have a Karakas untapped so I figure I'm safe. I pass the turn with Marit Lage in play, he casts Phantasmal Image targeting the token. I stupidly let him pass the turn back to me when I should have immediately bounced it (thus letting my Karakas untap again). I target Phantasmal Image with Karakas in the begin combat phase, swing with Marit Lage and he Aethered in a Phantasmal Image and blocked then swung back and killed me on the next turn. NOW, my play was stupid, but the question I am unsure about is this: Did he forget the sacrifice trigger of Phantasmal Image thus putting it back into his hand and then aethering it in again? Or did he have a second Phantasmal Image in hand? I still do not know, but I think I'll sleep easy either way.
G2: I sided incorrectly. I should have brought in Ensnaring Bridge, but did not. I brought in E.E. for a Bog, and 3 Abrupt Decays for a couple Crop Rotations and an Intuition. Regardless of my crappy sideboarding, I won handily. I played around Phantasmal Image by waiting and casting Intuition for 3 Abrupt Decay then Decaying the Vial he had then I simply recurred the combo with Loam and Explorations as many times as needed to get through his Submerges xD
G3: Played much like game 2, holding him off with Maze, assembling the combo fast with Exploration and Loam and going off multiple times through Submerge to take the victory.
5-0

Round 6: Deadguy Ale
G1: I drew worse than any other game in the tournament. I drew nothing but lands for about 10 turns while he beat me down with spirit tokens and Stoneforge Mystics While I used the 4 Maze of Iths (including two Stage's copying Maze) I had to keep his Batterskull, Dark Confidant and Tidehollow Sculler at bay. I simply drew nothing. Happens.
G2: I sided in Abrupt Decay and EE for Bog (yeah getting rid of Lingering Souls is nice, but it's not the key to winning) Karakas, and a couple Intuition. I kept him mana-less with Wasteland and Port and went for the combo, had my token plowed went to 40 life, had Loam Surgical Extraction'd preventing me from getting Depths back and had to resort to Punishing Fire, the rest of the game was him unable to draw his way out from under my manalock while I counted him down 1 life at a time.
G3: I wasn't able to pull it out from underneath Deathrite Shaman and the rest of his dudes. I can't remember much other than it was my first lost and I was a bit bummed.
5-1

Round 7: Death and Taxes
G1: x'D God, I'm liking my matchups this tournament. Punishing Fire, Engineered Explosives, recurring Dark Depths at 50 life from StP... gg
G2: He got me down to 1 life and I stabilized and E.E.d his board. DnT Bye.
6-1

Round 8: Manaless Dredge
G1: I won the die roll and took the play. He revealed that he was Manaless Dfredge on his first turn and I was unable to get Glacial Chasm and/or Tabernacle, the ONLY two cards that matter in the matchup. He Balustrade Spy'd himself and killed me with Hateflayer
G2: My inexperience playing against the deck shows very noticably. I sided miserably. I took out Intuitions, Karakas, and a Ghost Quarter, added E.E. and 4x Sphere of Resistance. I NEVER should have taken out intuition in that match-up. They cannot interact with you whatsoever and getting Glacial Chasm and Loam is gg. Sphere stops them from casting any spells but they still beat you down with Ichorids and Nether Spirits and 2/2's and Sphere slows down the Intuitions that you should be leaving in xD... ALSO I took the play >.> Don't take the play, you're enabling them and giving up a free card. Terrible punts, but lessons learned. Anyway, I played turn 1 Sphere of Resistance putting him on the dredge and beat me down plan. I played Exploration and found Glacial Chasm and despite horribly misplaying with it by putting myself down to 2 life and then sac'ing and recurring it every turn rather than copying it in the upkeep with Thespian Stage which would have allowed me to continue making land drops, I found Bojuka Bog and started playing Bog + Chasm every turn which brought about the concession.
G3: He takes the draw (what a surprise). I play another Sphere of Resistance but find that his forces still grow and beat hard and fast. I find nothing to get Chasm and die to combat damage.
6-2 :c

Round 9: BUG Delver
G1: I was out of top 8 contention, playing for possible top 16 which I ended up making. BUG Delver is pretty straightforward. They have Deathrite Shaman, you have Punishing Fire and E.E. They have no basic lands, you have Wasteland Exploration and Life from the Loam. I got rid of his DRS blew up his lands and Crop Rotation'd for Tabernacle to wipe his board. gg
G2: I brought in Decays as more answers to DRS. I got my loam eaten by DRS, I got killed with Goyfs and Legacy's new overpowered Grim Lavamancer c;
G3: I wasted him, saw that he didn't make another land drop and made a gutsy Crop Rotation for a second wasteland to cut him completely off mana while I slowly built my board. Life From The Loam ends the game in that situation.
7-2

All in all it was a good tournament. I'm happy with how I played, I thought I played very tight outside of a couple misplays that I highlighted. I got very good matchups for most of the day, so that helps, but honestly I love this decklist, I wouldn't change a card. It's been evolving over the past few years and shifting with the meta and I think this is the best iteration I've played to date. Having the 3 Stages and 3 Crop Rotations make Intuition that much better and I think the meta is soft to this deck right now, and the arrival of poser combo lands (c; take a joke, please) makes people sideboard incorrectly and forget how to play against you. My friend Tom played the exact same 75 at the tournament and top 32'd playing against much harder matchups, so that should give you some clue as to its viability. Give it a try if you like! Thanks for reading.

Nice read :)

Nice report. Not looking start another flamefest, but I would never do this.

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Originally Posted by Sonofmogh

ALSO, I know people know this, but some people don't... if your opponent plays RIP say "okay" if they don't announce the exile trigger or pick up their own graveyard before they move to the next thing then the trigger has been missed and the cards you have in your yard stay there.

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I'd just exile my library and hope for the best. There is a fine line between babysitting opponent letting him know if he misses a trigger (which I suspect was motivation for rules change that absolved you from responsibility for maintaining game state) and deliberately misinterpreting opponents actions in order to gain an advantage.

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Originally Posted by jhhdk

Nice report. Not looking start another flamefest, but I would never do this.



I'd just exile my library and hope for the best. There is a fine line between babysitting opponent letting him know if he misses a trigger (which I suspect was motivation for rules change that absolved you from responsibility for maintaining game state) and deliberately misinterpreting opponents actions in order to gain an advantage.

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No flamefest needed :)

It's a matter of opinion. I'd never do it at a lower REL, but if I'm at a competitive tournament like an open series event, I expect my opponent to resolve their triggers. It's an especially easy call if they already have a clearly delineated exile and graveyard pile and they fail to move one to the other; if they have a yard only and they do nothing it's a tougher decision, but according to the rules it is a trigger and it can be missed. I would not fault anyone for just assuming the trigger resolves and saving any uncomfortable moments with their opponent. That's just my thoughts, others are free to disagree; I can see both sides.

We managed to play in the same 24 people tournament with Snorlax. We live in a small world ^^
Nothing too fancy for me. I was playing a Intuition list with 1/1 DD/Stage split and 0 crop rotation. I went 2-2-1.
2-1 vs. Team America.
0-2 vs. Dredge. I know shame on me, but I kept a slow hand G1 and G2 he went T1 Coliseum > LED > Breakthough > Crack LED for 4 dredgers > Flashback Looting. And I missplayed by not playing my Tabernacle T1 instead of a fucking forest so I was a land drop short all game..
1-1 vs. UWr Miracle. I won a long G1 where Marit got killed by StP, Venser, Terminus like 5 times before finally connecting and had to fight through a counterbalance-lock (I EE for 7 at some point xD) and a Jace. G2: he forced my T3 Thalia, played Blood Moon on his T3 and RiP on his T4. G3: I was able to make Marit on the turn 5 of extra turns, but didn't get a chance to attack with it.
2-0 vs. UWR Delver.
0-2 vs. BUG Control with Standstill. I lost G1 to a Wasteland lock from his single loam (after dropping my Bog on T2 because I needed mana and though he would not play with any graveyard shenanigans, I was wrong..), and not being able to find one of my four Loams, nor a blue source to cast my Intuition. And I lost G2 to a Wasteland lock after having my Loams and Wastelands extracted. No comment on this round please xD.


Bref, I just wanted to brainstorm some ideas next.
In an ideal world, I could Intuition for Exploration, Loam and a land, and my opponent would give me the Exploration. Let's look at cards that can try to achieve this goal.
Impulse: Bad, doesn't fill your graveyard.
Mulch: Bad, only get lands in your hand.
Grisly Salvage: Bad, doesn't get exploration.
Commune with the Gods: Ok, get Exploration and fill your GY with potentially a Loam.
Forbidden Alchemy: Ok, dig for 4 instead of 5 with Commune and costs 1 more but the card is assured.

I've kept Commune with the Gods out of the above list because i think this is the one with most potential. What about an heavy enchantment list with a creature sideboard like:

4 Commune with the Gods
3 Enlightened Tutor
4 Exploration
2 Sylvan Library
1 Nether Void

Recycle? I've decked myself more than a few times with it xD
Moat?
The Abyss?
Humility/Mishra's Factory/Creeping Tar Pit?

//SB
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Primeval Titan
3 Krosan Grip

What do you think of it? Negative feedback also welcomed ^^

Nice meeting a Lands comrade! I went 3-2 and missed any placing because of r1 loss on my breakers. Went 1-2 vs miracles and beat shardless and canadian thresh.

^Going to try the forbidden alchemy. On paper you can setup loams, pfire, and still get an exploration(or sb hate). Flashback is relevant too since we can reasonably get that much mana and it turns into a free card when dredged up. Keeping the chosen card hidden is a bonus to keep the opp thinking.

Commune is interesting, but only needed to get exploration and mayyyybe a dude. Etutor does this already in addition to artifacts. It may not be quite on color, but etutor does a better job setting up t2 disruption in G2/3. Commune has a sizeable chance of seeing no sb cards so I'd rather put a hate piece in the sb like a sphere or chalice that can easily be tutored up.

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Originally Posted by Sparkii

It was custom made. :(

I want one too.

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Pic please!


-Lands afficionado

@ son of mogh - you run roughly 22 lands that dont produce relevant mana (the turn they cip).

this i feel, is tough on openers?

18 green sources seems fine with Mox. I have the same manabase minus a fetch and have had no issues with mana.