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The decission on playing four Meditates main is based on my (not that bad) metagame prediction: I expected a lot of Landstill and some Suicide style decks (be it mono black or Eva Green), at which I board in the 4th Meditate nonetheless.
But afterall, consistency > power. :laugh:
I played in a local tourney (14 people) this weekend and failed. I played the standard list with 1 Cryptic Command and 1 Twincast.
Round 1 - BGw Rock-variant
He has some early discard but I can recover before his Confidant + Loxodon Hierarch gets to dangerous and win. Game 2 his well timed discard brings it home for him. game 3 I win with ease in response to his first Duress around turn 6.
1-0
Round 2 - B/W Aggro
He started with Vial, followed up by a Confidant. Peek shows me another 2 Confidants, a Grunt and a Whitemane lion (?) He swings a few turns and gets a Duress or two trough, still he wasn't able to really make me sweat game 1. Nice move in this game was using FoI flashback for about 7-8 and watching his grunt die next turn. Game 2 was much closer, as he had discard and a good clock this time. I had to go off with 5 lands, a Turnabout and 2 Impulse and too much damage on the board. I was lucky with the Impulses and won this one regardless.
2-0
Round 3 - B/R/u Discard & bolts (finished 1./2.)
Come on, not discard again! while I only faced a Duress/Thoughtseize configuration in the first rounds, I was up against Hymns too this time. He also played Confis, 3 Tombstalkers and a good amount of Burn, so he had reasonable clock too. Anyway, He's discard didnt get the important spells game 1, I think Brainstorm saved my ass here. I go off turn 5 five with all key-spells in hand. game 2 I'm forced to go off turn 4, with all the important spells in hand again, so I brainfreeze him for 12 & 14... he let each copy resolve till he shows me a Blessing. If I had only knew... I had no mana floating and was tapped out, so I lost. I'm not sure If I would have been able to Stroke him for enough as he was playing 2 Blessings and my Meditates showed me many lands. Game 3 I lose to Duress/Duress/Thoughtseize in his opener.
Play of the round: Twincasting a Turn 2 Duress. Also, letting resolve all 26 copies of Brain Freeze, just because I was bit pissed =P
2-1
Round 4 - Burn (3./4. in the end)
Game one hes just too fast, game 2 he shows me Sirocco in response to a setup-spell, and I only have Remand - but no 2 manas open. Game 3 for fun I win on Turn 3 with Force back-up against upkeep shenanigans. just sayin.
2-2
Round 5 - Geddon Stax
He starts with Chalice@1, Trinisphere and Chalice@2. I counter one of his Armageddons, wish for Rebuild and go off in response to the Trini-replay. Game 2 I keep a hand with land, Brainstorm and good Business. Well, I'm an Idiot. Never do this against Chalice-packing decks. Especially if they Play Trinishperes too. More so if they play stax. Chalice@1 makes sure that I didn't find land Nr.2 for 3 to 4 turns, when he got Trini again. I can't counter his Smokestack and I lose. Game 3 I let resolve to much hate cards (Chalice@1, Defense Grid, Trini, I think there was a Sphere too...) and wasn't able to remand his smokestack when I was on 3 lands. EoT wish on Rebuild wasn't possible because of the Grid, so one Smokestack trigger would have come trough. I wish on my turn and give up in response to his Chalice@3. He then shows me an Armageddon in his hand. I think its okay to put this into the "die to sick hands"-folder
2-3
I only slept 3 hours the night before, I'll use that as excuse. I'm not happy with the outcome of round 4 & 5, but I think I played correct against burn. I think there could have been some play mistakes against Stax (next to the plain stupid "keep" in G2). I'm fine with the result of game 3, heavy discard + beats + blessing is too much.
All in all it would have been a great meta for Solidarity, the only (really) bad MUs were round-3-guy(BRu), Team America and one (yeah only one, but don't get jealous) Thresh(UGr). Next to mentioned decks above I have seen Affinity, Belcher, Survival, GW Stax and Aluren.
Sorry that I didn't win this one, guys.
I played in a tournament last weekend. There were 33 people there.
I'll try to write a report as well as I recall it from my notes.
First round against Sligh/Burn:
This player is kind of a rookie, doesn't know all the rules and such. I probably could have gotten a game loss for him if I were a dick but I tried to teach him few rules so that he could become better. This was probably the easiest possible matchup that I could have gottem and quess what happened. First game I have all the time I need and stroke him for 70 or something. Then I loose two games to mana skrew and slith firewalker... so sad.
0-1 (1-2)
Second Round against vial WW:
First game I combo out because he has lethal on the board, and I fizzle. It seriously seems that it is not my day. Next game I play brain freeze and he responds by vialing out a true believer. Didn't see that one coming. Luckily I have reset and wish in hand, so I make about 30 mana, wish for stroke, stroke my self for about twenty, bounce the true believer, tap his guys and mill him away.
Third game I have FoW for his Vial and the game is basically over from that point. I echoing truth his believer and combo out, easy win.
1-1 (3-3)
Third round against Enchantress:
Really easy matchup. First game I destroy him completely. Second game I have to mull to 5 but still win through orim's chant with absolutely nuts hand.
2-1 (5-3)
Fourth round agains Burn:
This was alot better burn build and I had no chance... He kills me in 4 turns both games. In second game I try to combo out from a difficult position but he has a burn in response. Really, no chance.
2-2 (5-5)
Fifth round against Affinity:
Nice fast aggro again. He gets me relatively low on life and plays Ethersworn Canonist. I wish for rebuild in response and next turn bounce his board. He plays more gass and next turn I combo in response to his canonist.
Next game goes pretty much the same way and I find my self in good position to still manage to go to the top 8.
3-2 (7-5)
Sixth round against Rgb aggro (or something)
His deck played atleast goyfs, confidants, some red beats and burn. First game I have just enough time to 4 lands in play combo him out. Second game I get 4 lands and am pretty much ready to combo because he has lethal on board. I play meditate and he responds with bolt which would kill me... I have another meditate and I win through difficult comboing.
4-2 (9-5)
That is enough for the price split because all of the 4-2:s got prices... So I was somewhere between 5-9 in standings. There was no top 8, which was sad cause I felt kind of strong at that point :)
My list:
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
12 Island
4 Reset
3 Turnabout
4 High Tide
3 Meditate
4 Impulse
4 Brainstorm
3 Cunning Wish
3 Opt
1 Peek
1 Flash of Insight
1 Twincast
4 Force of Will
3 Remand
2 Cryptic Command
2 Brain Freeze
SB:
1 Rebuild
2 Wipe Away
3 Echoing Truth
3 Disrupt
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Twincast
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Brainfreeze
1 Mystical Tutor
About the sideboard,
Rebuild: Golden against affinity
Wipe Away: Never sided in, never wished, but still stays in
Echoing Truth: Sided in against WW and it was good in there
Disrupt: Sided in against burn but didn't draw them. Would have been good.
Stroke of Genius: Wished many times and used for various things, very flexible and great
Twincast: Sided in and wished few times. Great every time that I used it.
Turnabout: Wished once but didn't matter, would have one either way, just playing it safe.
Meditate: Most wished card. Couldn't play with one on the sideboard
Brain Freeze: Wished once for the win
Mystical Tutor: Never used, will be replaced.
Regarding Twincast: Almost every game against any kind of AdN combo I managed to copy AdN itself or at least a preemptively cast Orim's Chant. I know this is some kinda obvious use but it just feels so great :D
Well... congratulations for top8ing with only one brain freeze in the SB, and only wishing for it once!! :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Yan
More seriously... in a meta like yours, i will change the mystical and one wipe away for 2 more twincasts or BEB.
for the record: mainboard +2 Brain Freeze
yea, they were there... I thought something was missing when I wrote it down... error fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
I cutted the the sb-Brainfreeze from my list and I have to say I was very happy with the gained spot. When I wanted to wish for Brainfreeze, it was only to end to combo faster, but it was never really needed. I was actually able to wish for it quite often due to Force pitch and Flash of Insight.
Ah, and congratulations to the good finish.
What I like about having 2 Brain Freeze sb is the possibility of going for 3 maindeck postboard against blue based control.
But you win against blue based control anyway (if you can deal with possible Counterbalances).
Some weeks ago I asked Deep6er about this and he advised against even one Brain Freeze. As I had never even thought about that possibility before, I tried playing without it and I didn't miss it even once (played two small tournaments and around 100 testgames in various matchups since then). I could have won faster some times, but I didn't lose even a single game to a lack of Brain Freeze in the sb.
My current sb:
1 Stroke
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
3 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
3 Twincast
2 Hydroblast
1 Rebuild
1 Mystical Tutor
a) Stroke, Meditate and Turnabout are set in stone (wishing for Turnabout is not all that frequent but does come up every now and then).
b) 3 Wipe Away allows boarding two and still having one available for Cunning Wish which helps especially against Dreadstill.
c) Only two Echoing Truth because Mystical Tutor replaces the third (and ETW becomes more rare with most combo playing ADN anyway)
d) 3 Twincast because they are especially great against ADN and helpful against Threshold.
e) 2 Hydroblast because something is needed against Burn/ Sligh
f) The purpose of Rebuild should be obvious and it is necessary at least in my local meta (and at any bigger tournament anyway).
g) Mystical is currently a testslot. The idea is to Wish for Mystical on turn three, play it in your upkeep on turn four and to win on their turn while boarding it in as an additional copy of Twincast/ Truth/ FoW against combo. Unfortunately my testgames were all against blue-based decks so I don't have all that much to say about it yet. In theory it sounds good though.
Lately with Team America becoming pouplar, Disrupt seems like a good addition in place of one Wipe Away and the two Hydroblasts but that would mean some more problems against goblins/ Burn/ other aggro. If anybody gets the chance to test this, let us know. In theory they also seem helpful against Dredge.
Also nice reports, keep playing Solidarity.
Actually, I looked at your list at deckcheck before my tourney - thats why I questioned & dismissed the Brainfreeze. Mystical was quite useful that day too, it was nice to go Wish -> Mystical in response to discard. I also side it in against fast decks as burn or affinity to make a turn-3 win more possible. I should have tested it earlier, but back in the day it was dismissed as 'not good enough' ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Van Phanel
I've tested this deck a bit online where I hadn't run into CB and I have to say it is as strong as ever, it's ability to also piggy back over traditional storm combo decks is also highly amusing.
This may well be my first time posting in the solidarity thread... that would probably be because it was never my deck in the local meta, a friend of mine was the solidarity player and i didnt want to steal his thunder.
I picked this deck up at the WRONG time. when counterbalance started seeing play all over the place, i thought - "yeah, now seems like the right time to be playing a deck that loses to it!"
I battled on regardless and started seeing Cryptic Command appearing on the forum with Van Phanel and his couple good finishes with the deck. I got over my doubts on a four mana card in solidarity that was not turnabout and tried it out, and the thing is amazing!
I would not say that the deck is as good as it ever was, as the current meta requires a lot more skill than was ever needed before - and that should say a lot, seeing as how people were so sure that this deck should be goldfished four years to have any sort of understanding of it - a slight exaggeration if you ask me!
@Van Phanel:
I notice your Mystical Tutor in the sideboard and can i just say that after a hell of alot of playtesting, I will not be taking it out for a LONG time. it is far too valuable in being able to wish for whatever you want and grab it in your upkeep as you said. It turns your wishes into tides, all be them expensive ones, and that can just be invaluable
for reference (though they all look the same really), here is my list:
4x High Tide
4x Reset
3x Turnabout
3x Meditate
2x Brain Freeze
4x Brainstorm
4x Impulse
2x Flash of Insight
3x Opt
1x Peek (i have been playing with 4x opt for a long time, but i love this card so much)
3x Cunning Wish
2x Cryptic Command
4x Force of Will
3x Remand
3x Flooded Strand
3x Polluted Delta
12x Snow Covered Island
Sideboard:
2x Twincast
2x Wipe Away
2x Hydroblast
2x Echoing Truth
1x Turnabout
1x Mystical Tutor
1x Meditate
1x Stroke of Genius
1x Rebuild
1x Brainfreeze
1x Hurkyl's Recall
Slobad23
I have played Solidarity back and forth for a long time. This is by far my favorite deck, and the sole reason to why i started to play legacy at all.
The biggest problem i have found with this deck is the sometimes rather frustrating lack of High Tide. 4 High tides in the deck, without any way of finding it (except with the mystical in the board people now plays) seems rather low.
I'm going to a local tournament today, we tend to be slightly more then 20 people attending and today I'll switch from Stifle/nought to Solidarity.
How is the discussion about splashing going? this thread is rather long and many has talked about it, but the discussion seems out of date.
Today I'm trying out this list.
MD:
3 High Tide
3 Turnabout
4 Reset
4 Brainstorm
4 Impulse
2 Opt
2 Abeyance
3 Cunning Wish
2 Mystical Tutor
3 Meditate
3 Force of Will
2 Cryptic Command
3 Remand
2 Brain Freeze
1 Flash of Insight
1 Twincast
3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
10 Island
2 Tundra
SB:
1 High Tide
1 Force of Will
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Twincast
1 Abeyance
3 Rebuild
3 Wipe Away
2 Echoing Truth
Many things are pretty standard, but some are there as a test, main things Ill think you will react on.
-1 High Tide MD. This gets back to my thoughts in the beginning. I many times feel that i cant find the high tide, and want 1 in SB to have the ability to set up the combo with Cunning Wish.
+2 Mystical Tutor. The same reason as above, setting up the combo and finding the missing piece, or just fetch Meditate for more card draw.
-1 FoW. I hate FoW in this deck. My experience tells me that i almost all the time has to pitch a important piece in the combo, but i keep the last one in board for wishing. I have before tried out pact of negation and MissD but feel that they lack the staying and overall power of force of will.
White splash for Abeyance. a resolved abeyance gives me a straight path to the win, and can in worst case scenario force opponent to play FoW or another counter on it.
I have had thoughts about splashing black for Skeletal Scrying and ADN, but my initial thoughts about that is that they don't give the deck anything that it does have. We already draw cards in insane amounts anyway.
The main aggro threat in my meta is affinity (4 stable players out of about 20) and the main control archetype is Stifle/nought in one variation or the other (6 now that i don't play it). Nobody plays thresh and counter/top is something i will most likely face in at least 2 out of 5 matches today.
The rest of the meta varies between some rogue decks, crappy kiddy decks and people who play different decks all the time. Some sort of combo will be there, be it either springtide, ADN-tendrils or ichorid, but the amount of combo in my meta is rather low.
Ill post a longer report later tonight when i get home on how my testing has gone, but i would be very happy to hear some thoughts about the configuration on the solidarity I'm playing.
Take care guys!
/Christoffer
I personally tried some splashes, and generally found them to be not worth it, if there is any form of non-basic land hate in your meta.
I'd say Chant is better than Abeyance, because of the fact that it isn't dead in mid-combo (kicker).
Splashing for green might also be pretty good, given you're in the right meta.
I've only very briefly tested Mystical Tutor. If it's really as good as you guys say, I'll try it out sometime. I still like playing 2 Brain Freeze sb, and it's going to be hard for me to remove them completely.
oki, for some strange reason almost nobody showed up today. only 13 ppl, so i take my conclusions with a grain of salt.
Match 1: I face stifle/nought. 2-1. First game he resolved CB and well, i did not find an answer for it. Game 2 he taps out for nought/trickbind and i win in his EOT. Game 3 is pretty much the same.
Match 2: I face control sliver with counter/top. 2-1. He never get to resolve CB and its a rather easy win except for the one where he gets a aggro start and i fizzle.
Match 3: Landstill. 0-2. I fizzle on mana, and make lots of errors. No errors who cost me the game, it was still in his hand.
Match 4: Some sort of mono-black aggro. 0-2. first duel he get swamp, swamp, swamp and Hymn x 4. Nothing to do, he kills my hand and draw aggro from the top. Second round he disrupt my hand to oblivion and play some sort of aggro.
The only conclusions i can draw from my experience is;
1: I didnt miss Brain Freeze at all in the SB.
2: Abeyance did not do me any good except to get them to pitch counters. When i resolved them they did not have anything to disrupt my combo with anyway.
We have weakly tournaments so im gonna try the deck out some more times.
Thread locked. New thread here.