[Deck] Reanimator

@Sturtz

With 4 ponder and 4 bs he should play with the 4 s&t mainboard :smile:
Now seriously, this build suggests that he's playing draw-discard g1, and s&t after sideboarding. Didn't see the reports yet to confirm, but looks like it.
What I find interesting is 4 animate dead and 3 reanimate setup. With so many MM around, this may be actually a clever step. As for sundering titan, I'm not a fan. Yep, he can kill some x-colored decks lands, but that's it. Angel of Despair however may compete with Terastodon since he can hit creatures. I packed him at GP Madrid last year, and only used it once (but it was crucial).
Now the Hymns got me puzzled. Maybe to dodge mm?

HAHAHA! I agree with you ascertation of the 4 SnT. I guess if you are anticipating a lot of NO RUG, TA, and Zoo, Sundering Titan could be pretty decent. I have to say that I still believe him to be a sideboard card. I do think it kind of interesting to see the Angel of Despair and Elesh in his main. They both seem to fit more of a utility niche to be used against various decks post board. I just have to say that in my testing of the maximized builds (as calculated by Garobidou), that they have been really consistent. This would slant me at wanting to play one of these configurations. But then again, he is the one putting up the awesome stats at a large event. I am really interested in his tournament report... he has some different choices and I am curious as to why they were picked.

His build is indeed quite surprising and as you both say it would be great to read his report. If you're interested I can do the math for his build but running 8 brainstorms-like should lead to a big loss.

On some specific other points you underlined :

1. The 4 Animate Dead might be worth trying. Yes he did chose it for his ability to dodge Mental misstep. However going down on Reanimate leads to a big loss in percentage as :
a. You increase the hands requiring 2 lands to be keepable/god
b. You reduce your on the play draw/discard strategy (in my opinion with a 2cc Reanimate Effect in hand such a strategy is a bad strategy as you won't be able to reanimate before T4)
c. You reduce the stability to mulligans (again due to the Draw/discard strategy as a 6 cards hand on the draw with a 2cc Reanimate Effect is the same as a 7 cards on the play, so the point above applies)
d. 2cc cards suffer from Spell Snare and to a lesser extent Daze

2) The creatures :
a. I totally agree regaring Sundering Titan (strange choice and not making the cut in my opinion) and Angel of Despair (a bit better, competing with Terastodon as you said but I prefer Mr. Don :p)
b. You know my opinion concerning Elesh, especially MD...
c. I am more interested by Grave Titan as it is a slot I wanted to try for a few months :
- It fulfills more or less the same role as Emperion allowing you to reanimate on low life (you can reanimate, fetch, cast a Misstep and still be able to reanimate, especially if Jin was killed)
- It has quite a good clock
- It allow to attack and keep some ressources to block (how many times did you reanimate a Iona but get raced by a single goyf?)
- It isn't blue, such as the tokens, so I can block Piledrivers (only 1 big or 2 medium piledrivers can race a Sphinx)

3; Hymn to tourach. This is also a card I wanted to try. Here it serves the same purpose as Thoughtseize (that I'm running with SnT), protecting the SnT. It's mental Misstep proof, more on the curve and potentially more gamebreaking. However I wonder if the Urborg wouldn't be absolutely necessary in that case (and I don't like that slot)

Sidenote : I've been testing build #2 for the last days and the results have been really great so far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nastirth

@Alsan1) can we ignore artifacts and enchantments? If we can, then we should consider flusterstorm vs missdirection. 2) What do you think about this "matchup"?

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1- I think that yes, we can. We've been playing dispel > Spierce, and dispel doesn't cut artifacts or enchantments. We have Echoing and Pithing for them.

2- I play 1 missdirection MD, another SB. So I can rely on both of them +Fow, defending me from each situation :).

To the new build on SCGopen: with all my respects, I lost hope with this tournaments, except for great players like Gerry T. and company. I don't think that "old" version of reanimator is better than ours, and with that build I agree with the S&T maindeck and Personal tutors to search (wich I think is a bad idea, but...). As a note, a collegue of mine played last sunday my list of reanimator (same as #2 but with missdirection MD instead of 3rd animate dead) in a 60 person tournament winning merciless 2-0 nearly every round.

But BTW, please Garobidou do maths :D.

EDIT: in another forum they had posted the top8 (thanks to DuKe from there, http://www.elsantuario.es/foro/index...c,10873.0.html)

Omar Rohner - Reanimator

4 Jin-Gitaxis, Core Augur
3 Hapless Researcher
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Blazing Archon
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Daze
1 Misdirection
4 Careful Study
2 Brainstorm
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead
4 Entomb
2 Swamp
2 Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Polluted Delta
3 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Flooded Strand

SB:
2 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
1 Platinum Emperion
2 Echoing Truth
2 Dispel
2 Misdirection
1 Show And Tell
1 Elesh Norn, Great Cenobite
1 Coffin Purge
1 Terastodon

He played Dispel instead of Flusterstorm because he didn't have.

I've not yet done a good result with this list, maybe due to the fact there are so many GW in my place either so many guys that just in tournament show me karakas from the hand once I've already reanimate the fatty, anyhow this is the list I'm playing...

3 Jin-Gitaxias, the Core Argur
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Platinum Emperion --> if your plan is to reanimate as first Jin-Gitaxias this is the best 2nd target
1 Inkwell Leviathan
2 Hapless Research
4 Entomb
4 Exhume
4 Reanimate
2 Animate Dead
4 Force of Will
4 Daze --> 1 Misdirection could be fine as 5th FOW or MM
4 Mental Misstep
4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
9 Fetch
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

1 Blazing Archon
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Terastodon --> I'm going to cut it out, never side in, to be replace with 3rd Seize or 2nd Rod
3 Spell Pierce --> It seems to be better than Dispel especially if you are on the play vs grav hate
2 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
2 Thoughtseize --> how can you win vs black based with a side in of extirpate?
1 Coffin Purge
2 Echoing Truth
1 Hurkyll's Recall --> It's like the 3rd Echoing for artifact based

@Comeback
1) Platinum Emperion at being the best 2nd target
I disagree. Platinum is only great when you reanimated once (e.g Jin), it was dealt by opponent, and your 2nd reanimate effect is a reanimate. Or against fast aggro/burn to stabilize. Platinum is great in a last chance scenario where you need time to find a more appropriate fatty.
If Jin is on the battlefield you should be in a winning position and only need to protect him, which means having reanimate effects (if your opponent removals aren't remove from the game effects) or counterspells (which interacts very poorly with Platinum). In that case a Iona/Sphinx is always better.
Don't get me wrong it's one of my 2 contenders for creature slot #8 (with the 2nd Sphinx).

2) Terastodon
I would cut it as it is a good answer to many annoying things (e.g Jace, resolved equipments, karakas) while being a good fatty. Moreover the denial strategy it can assume can be game over.

3) Spell pierce
Discard is way better at doing what you're suggesting : it deals with hate when we're on the play, it can also deal with Extirpate. It's a nice tempo tool too when you discard the equipment they've been searching with mystic.

4) Extirpate
Yes this is a very painful hate card. This is why I run 2 or 3 Show and Tell in my SB with some discard (as discard is good with SnT and good on its own at dealing with hate).

@Alsan
I like Omar's list, especially the creatures setup. I'm running the exact same and I've been very happy with that.
(sidenote : what a nice pimp deck you have :p)

@Comeback: facing an extirpate is relative easy. We have lots of ways to put a creature into graveyard, so with one in grave, we cast Exhume, he extirpate the creature, and with entomb or hapless we put another. In my case, with 2 misdirections, I can redirect to another creature my reanimation spell. It's tricky, but we can. And knowing he has an extirpate is easy: if he doesn't cast any graveyard hate and he never taps, he has it. If he doesn't cast any GH but he taps, he could have Faerie macabre instead- Or simply nothing.

@Garobidou: Yeah, me too, now I'm testing 1 Stormtide leviathan instead of the 2nd Sphinx, and I have opposed thoughts. Stormtide is an improved Inkwell, when you have nothing better to reanimate (and you're not playing against merfolks) is not that bad, works great shutting down progenitus, and is a 3turn beater (and I have jap foil xD, wich 2nd Sphinx is not). At the time I wanted to reanimate Inkwell I always wanted the 2nd sphinx, but now when I reanimate Stormtide I don't miss Sphinx.

Yesterday I was testing vs Goblins, he started, I didn't have Mental, he made the usual alpha strike (mountain lackey, siege gang + piledriver) but had +1 piledriver in hand, but I had in hand Careful + Stormtide and I won. He never had 8 goblins to his gelmpalm or 4 lands before my Echoing truth, and lasted 3 turns. With siege-gang I probably lost to Piledrivers. Is worth to test.

(and yeah, you like it? It's been hard to get all pieces... u_U. Now I'm following the last verdant and the Blazing archon, and I have incoming the 3 Flustertorm JAP)

@ Alsan

I have also been considering a maindeck Stormtide Leviathan. Actually in my 1 Brainstorm build that I have been testing, I have been running 2 Iona. I am not sure that she is optimal. I think that possibly the second Iona in the main should become a Elesh or a Stormtide. They both add more utility and flexibility to the deck. But I have not come to a solid conclusion as of yet.

As for the pimpness of you deck, I was very impressed to see the scans you uploaded in the "Pimp My Deck Forum." I am not too big on foreign languages as where I play most people are just confused by them. I do however prefer Black Boarded and Foils. I am still looking for Foil Polluted Deltas, Mental Misseps, Dazes, and Entombs. So basically about a third to a half of my build is foiled. I am still trying to get the rest of the way there, but it will probably take some time.

In my bit of testing, I have come to the conclusion that three sideboard Show and Tells are not optimal with a sixteen-land build; three Pithing Needle, two Show and Tell is a much more comfortable number. Misdirection also seems favorable over Flusterstorm or another one-mana counterspell since it is difficult to leave one mana up in key spots with only sixteen lands, although I haven't come to a conclusion on that issue.

I have switched decklists thanks to Garibodou's large-scale probability tables. Here is the decklist with the highest average percentage of reanimating something on turn three that also includes four Brainstorms:

4 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
1 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Swamp

1 Hapless Researcher
3 Jin-Gitaxias
2 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Inkwell Leviathan
1 Blazing Archon

4 Careful Study
4 Reanimate
4 Exhume
2 Animate Dead

4 Brainstorm
4 Entomb
4 Force of Will
4 Mental Misstep
3 Daze

SB:
3 Thoughtseize
3 Pithing Needle
2 Null Rod
2 Show and Tell
2 Echoing Truth
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Terastodon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

The eighteen lands should make casting Show and Tell a lot easier postboard; they also just straight-up swap for Animate Dead now, which is cool. I'm trying out Thoughtseize right now in my ever-changing sideboard disruption/permission slot; it should also benefit from the eighteen lands. I chose a second Sphinx over Stormtide Leviathan or another large one because Sphinx is quite possibly the greatest in-combat creature of all time and will get the job done rather handily against GW decks, Zoo (provided you have Misstep backup for PTE), Merfolk, Gobbos, etc.; lifelink is also very relevant if you want to be casting Reanimate over and over. A maindeck Stormtide Leviathan isn't out of the question, though. A fourth Jin doesn't sound bad either.

@ Forum

I am still working on playing decent sized quantities of sample hands of Garobidou variants 2 and 3. I have not been able to make quite as much progress as I would like to be making. My work load out here at the lab has kicked into high gear this week. I am not only working on my research but I am grading labs and papers from summer undergrad students. I will hopefully have some more data to share by the end of the weekend, if I can crawl out from under this mountain of lab reports to grade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KevinTrudeau

In my bit of testing, I have come to the conclusion that three sideboard Show and Tells are not optimal with a sixteen-land build; three Pithing Needle, two Show and Tell is a much more comfortable number. Misdirection also seems favorable over Flusterstorm or another one-mana counterspell since it is difficult to leave one mana up in key spots with only sixteen lands, although I haven't come to a conclusion on that issue. I have switched decklists thanks to Garibodou's large-scale probability tables.

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I had come to that conclusion a while back. Three SnT does seem to be maybe too much for the board. I had been playing 18 land, at the time. I would get awkward and rough hands, if I would sub them all in. I would suggest running 2 in the board at this time.

Another point would be in my testing I have really liked going back to 18 lands (I had been trying out 16 and 17 land builds). I have been running the variant 1 mostly. At 18 lands I am mulliganing less due to low land openers.

On the topic of mulliganing, I have had fewer poor mulligan decisions, due to my running of fewer Brainstorms. I am really liking variant 1 as it has a lowered probability of drawing into more draw spells... you get stuff you need when you careful study or use your one brainstorm. It is great to nearly always draw into business cards. Brainstorm really just slows the speed of this deck down, while improving mid to late game. I am loving running only one. Brainstorm may be one of the best cards in the game, but I am really thinking that it does not have to belong to this deck (at least as a 4-of).

@ Forum

Okay below you will find the results for my testing of Garobidou's Variant Number Two in 50 games as shuffled by MWS. The columns from left to right are game number, turn the first fatty hit play/how the fatty got in the bin, what back up was in hand (i.e. extra reanimation spells or counter magic), and the last column would be possible targets for reanimation for the next turn. I apologize that it came out so messy, but I just copy and pasted it from Excel (mine is neat in Excel, so I am not really going to fuss with it here). Please note that these are all games that this deck was on the play. I will breakdown the numbers we care about below. I also took the liberty of abbreviating many of the cards based on their titles. If there are any questions please ask.

Variant Two on the Play
Game Turn Reanimated Quality Counter/Extra Reanimation Back Up Subsequent Reanimate
1 2 Jin/HR FoW/Animate Dead Sphinx and Archon
2 2 Iona/CS MM/Daze None
3 3 Jin/MD Daze Any Creature
4 2 Jin/E MM/Daze Iona/Sphinx
5 2 Jin/E MM Inkwell/Iona
6 3 Jin/CS FoW/FoW Any Creature
7 7 Jin/E Daze/MM/FoW/FoW Any Creature
8 3 Jin/E FoW/MM None (drew into a BS)
9 5 Jin/E MM/Daze Any Creature
10 2 Jin/E Daze Any Creature
11 2 Jin/E MM None
12 2 Jin/E FoW Archon
13 3 Jin/MD Reanimate/Exhume/Animate Dead Inkwell
14 2 Iona/CS Daze None
15 2 Sphinx/CS Exhume None
16 2 Jin/CS Exhume/Animate Dead Inkwell
17 2 Jin/E Reanimate Sphinx
18 2 Jin/CS MM/Daze None
19 2 Jin/E MM Any Creature
20 3 Jin/E FoW/Animate Dead Archon
21 5 Jin/E Daze/FoW Any Creature
22 2 Jin/E Daze/MM None
23 2 Jin/E MM Iona/Sphinx
24 3 Jin/E MM/Reanimate Any Creature
25 3 Jin/E MM/FoW None
26 2 Jin/E Daze/FoW Any Creature
27 2 Jin/E Animate Dead/Animate Dead/Exhume Sphinx
28 2 Jin/E MM Any Creature
29 2 Jin/E Reanimate/Animate Dead Sphinx
30 2 Sphinx/HR Exhume/MM/FoW None
31 2 Jin/CS MM/Daze/Animate Dead Any Creature
32 3 Jin/E Reanimate/MM/FoW Any Creature
33 2 Jin/HR None Any Creature
34 2 Jin/E Daze None
35 2 Jin/CS Daze/MM/FoW Archon
36 2 Jin/E Animate Dead Any Creature
37 2 Jin/E Exhume/Daze/FoW Any Creature
38 2 Jin/E MM/MM/FoW Any Creature
39 5 Jin/E Daze/FoW/Reanimate/Animate Dead Any Creature
40 2 Jin/E FoW/FoW/Reanimate Inkwell
41 3 Sphinx/CS MM/Reanimate/Exhume Iona and Archon
42 4 Jin/CS FoW Archon
43 5 Archon/MD Daze/MM/FoW/FoW Any Creature
44 2 Jin/E None None
45 2 Jin/E FoW Iona
46 3 Jin/E Exhume/Exhume Any Creature
47 3 Jin/CS Exhume/Exhume/Animate Dead/Animate Dead Any Creature
48 3 Jin/CS MM/MM/Reanimate Archon
49 3 Jin/E Reanimate/FoW None
50 3 Sphinx/HR FoW/Daze Archon

So what I found in my testing.
Turn Reanimated: Number of Games
2:30
3:14
4: 1
5: 4
7: 1

These results come out pretty close to what Garobidou calculated. My testing shows a 60% chance to get a dude by turn 2 and an extra 28% chance to get a guy by turn 3. This is exactly the same as what I found in my 50 hands of Variant 1 on the play. There are a couple things to note: First this build, as per my statistics has a faster average turn for reanimation. This build (Variant 2) is running an average of 2.66 as opposed to the 2.72 that I have calculated for the Variant 1 on the play. I would attribute this to the fact that on poor/mulliganed hands in which you do not have a turn 2-3 dude, Brainstorm becomes far more valuable, as it can fix up you crappy hand. Seeing as this build runs 2 Brainstorm instead of the 1 run in Variant 1 this makes perfect sense. The next point would be in a few games drawing a Brainstorm could have been a faster creature or a piece of counter magic which would have made for a better game. Both Variants posted 11 of the 50 hands which did not post a next turn creature. Variant 1 posted 12 games where the second reanimated creature could be the pilot's choice. Variant 2 posted 20 games with this same statistic.

Short and sweet, it looks like Variant 2 might be a bit better when on the play. This would seem to be due to the extra Brainstorms which make mulliganed hands better. It could also be better post boarding as you would be able to dig for your sideboard hate. I still aim to test out Variant 2 on the draw in addition to Variant 3 both on the play and draw. These tests should be able to give us some decent ideas about how these nearly identical decks function ever so differently.

Hi guys,

Last wednesday I went to the local club to another small legacy tournament. I kept notes this time, and I registered all my hands, mullingans and sideboarding.

Deck list
Garib's #2 with Jin x3, Iona, Stormtide, Inkwell, Archon and Sphynx

Sideboard
1 Flusterstorm (wanted to test them, but only one arrived in time)
2 Duress
1 Needle (still have only one, will add the 2nd, removing echoing truth)
3 Echoing Truth
2 Null Rod
2 Show and Tell
1 Iona
1 Terastodon
1 Elesh Norn
1 Platinum Angel


R1 - Mirror - 2-0

G1 - Draw
Hand 7: Hapless, Entomb, Exhume, USea, Careful, FoW, Jin
He plays island+ponder, and i put him on a combo deck. I go careful into Jin. Next turn he brainstorms and plays another island. On my turn I exhume Jin with FoW protection and it enters. Then when my oppo discards his hand I see 2 reanimates and 2 entombs... oppss.. Lucky me he didn't draw the black source :p

G2 - Draw
Hand 7: Entomb, Reanimate, Animate Dead, Fetch, USea, Island, FoW
I entomb for Jin at his eot, and on my turn I reanimate it, drew some counterspells and it was gg.

Sideboarding
Out: Exhume x4, Careful, Hapless x2, Stormtide, Archon, Sphynx
In: Iona, Platinum, Flusterstorm, Duress x2, Echoing Truth x3, Show and Tell x2


R2- Burn - 2-1

G1 - Draw
Hand 7: Brainstorm, Mental Misstep, Reanimate, Fetch x2, USea x2
Hand 6: Reanimate, Animate Dead, Fetch x2, Entomb, Mental Misstep
He plays mountain rift bolt. I play fetch and pass. He plays goblin guide and serves for two. At his eot I entomb for Iona. On mY turn I animate dead her and it's gg.

G2 - Draw
Hand 7: Reanimate x2, Exhume, Fetch x2, USea, Mental Misstep
Hand 6: Flusterstorm, FoW, Iona x2, Jin, USea
Hand 5: USea x2, Fetch x2, Exhume
I had a brain freeze and decided to keep the 5 hander. And lost miserably.

G3 - Play
Hand 7: Show and Tell, FoW, Careful, Animate Dead, Platinum Angel, USea, Fetch
I go careful into platinum. Animate dead it, and I was able to keep him alive all to the end by countering the crucial spells and needling his barbarian rings. I finished at -3 life but won. Without Iona the matchup is much tougher.

Sideboarding
Out: Jin x2, Stormtide, Inkwell, Daze x3, Animate Dead
In: Platinum, Iona, Elesh Norn, Terastodon, Needle, Flusterstorm, Show and Tell x2


R3- Merfolks - 0-2

G1 - Play
Hand 7: USea, Fetch x2, Exhume, Exhume, Sphynx, Brainstorm
This would be a very good hand to keep if on the draw, but I decided to keep it anyway because of brainstorm.

G2 - Play
Hand 7: Fetch x2, Island, Careful, Entomb, Reanimate, Brainstorm

The two games were essentially the same, by him countering all my discard outlets, and leaving me with the reanimation spells in hand and no creatures in gy.

Sideboarding
Out: Inkwell, Stormtide, Daze
In: Elesh Norn, Needle, Flusterstorm


I probably screwd up sideboarding, which leads me to launch sideboarding discussion. For what I've seen from the posted lists I can identify a converging trend on sideboard architecture, which I also share. I think we can define the following architecture as a standard sb architecture:

SB Architecture
3 disruption
2 needle
2 null rod
2 echoing truth
2 show and tell
3 creaures
1 flex slot

3 disruption is standard, with people choosing between duress, thoughtseize, dispel, spell pierce, misdirection and flusterstorm. The 2/2/2/2 package of needle, null rod, echoing truth and s&tell is also common. And usually at least 3 creatures are also present. These are 14 cards wich make a pretty standard sideboard. The 15th card is where I see more variation in terms of 4th disruption, 3rd needle, 3rd s&t, 4th creature. This probably should be the flex slot that adjusts your sb to your local metagame. But for the sb discussion I think we should settle the 15th sideboard card to help building a sideboarding strategy guide. In this case we should think about a sb for a big tournament field where you need to be the most flexible. My opinion goes towards the 4th creature or the 3rd needle. What do you guys think?

@ Forum

Okay for the regulars reading this forum, you know the drill with my sample hand results. Sure they are messy but you can glean all of the necessary information regarding the playing of this deck and its consistency based on the notation below. If there are any questions please do not hesitate to ask.

Variant Two on the Draw
Game Turn Reanimated Quality Counter/Extra Reanimation Back Up Subsequent Reanimate
1 3 Jin/E Reanimate/MM Any Creature
2 2 Jin/HR None Any Creature
3 2 Jin/CS Daze Any Creature
4 2 Jin/CS Exhume Any Creature
5 3 Jin/MD FoW Any Creature
6 2 Jin/CS Daze Any Creature
7 3 Jin/E FoW Iona
8 2 Jin/E None Archon
9 2 Jin/E MM Any Creature
10 2 Jin/E FoW Sphinx/Archon
11 6 Jin/E Daze/MM/FoW Any Creature
12 2 Inkwell/MD Daze/MM/Reanimate/Reanimate/Exhume Iona
13 2 Jin/E MM/Reanimate/Reanimate/Animate None
14 3 Jin/HR FoW Any Creature
15 3 Jin/E Daze/FoW Sphinx
16 3 Jin/E MM/FoW None
17 2 Iona/CS Reanimate/Reanimate/FoW/FoW Jin-Gitaxias
18 2 Jin/CS Daze/MM/FoW None
19 2 Jin/CS Reanimate/MM/Daze Any Creature
20 2 Jin/E FoW/FoW Inkwell
21 2 Jin/E FoW/FoW/FoW Sphinx/Archon
22 5 Jin/E MM/MM/FoW/FoW None
23 4 Jin/E Daze/MM/FoW/FoW Any Creature
24 2 Jin/E MM/FoW Archon
25 2 Jin/CS Daze/MM/MM None
26 2 Jin/CS MM/Daze Any Creature
27 6 Jin/E Daze/MM/FoW Archon/Inkwell
28 3 Jin/CS Daze/MM/MM/FoW Any Creature
29 2 Jin/HR Reanimate Any Creature
30 2 Jin/E Daze/MM/FoW Sphinx
31 2 Jin/E Reanimate/Daze/FoW Iona/Inkwell
32 2 Jin/E Daze Any Creature
33 2 Iona/CS Daze/FoW/Exhume None
34 2 Jin/E MM/FoW/Reanimate/Animate Dead Any Creature
35 5 Jin/E FoW Sphinx
36 2 Archon/CS MM/MM/FoW/FoW None
37 2 Jin/E MM/Reanimate/Exhume Inkwell
38 2 Sphinx/CS MM None
39 4 Jin/E MM/FoW/FoW None
40 2 Sphinx/HR Daze/Animate Dead None
41 3 Jin/MD Exhume/Exhume/Animate Dead None
42 2 Jin/MD FoW/Exhume Any Creature
43 2 Jin/CS Reanimate Sphinx
44 2 Jin/E Daze/Daze/Exhume Inkwell
45 2 Jin/E FoW Iona
46 3 Jin/MD Daze/Daze/MM/Animate Dead Any Creature
47 3 Jin/E FoW/Reanimate Iona
48 2 Jin/HR Animate Dead Any Creature
49 2 Jin/CS FoW/Reanimate/Animate Dead Any Creature
50 2 Jin/CS MM/Reanimate None

Turn Reanimated: Number of Games
2:34
3:10
4:2
5:2
6:2

I have to again commend Garobidou on his calculations. A bit to my surprise, my results confirm the statistics posted earlier in this forum. My testing shows a 68% chance to get a dude by turn 2 and an extra 20% chance to get a guy by turn 3.

There are some very noteworthy items to see in these numbers. First this build, as per my statistics has a faster average turn for reanimation. This build (Variant 2) is running an average reanimated dude by turn 2.56 as opposed to the 2.46 that I have calculated for the Variant 1 on the draw. Overall, I summed the average turns of reanimation (for both on the play and on the draw). It would seem that for Variant 1 the average turn is 2.59 while summed Variant 2 posts 2.61. These numbers basically show that the builds are nearly identical. Maybe you would not a statistical difference in 2 out of 100 games. That being said, Variant 1 appears faster from my stats, while Variant 2 would allow for better digging for sideboard cards. So those two games could be won or lost either on speed of the deck or the ability to find you hate cards. With that in mind, I think it is pretty clear this choice should be made on personal preference.

I will most likely begin my testing of Variant 3 soon and will hopefully have some data very soon.

Hi. I don't have forces and underground seas so i try something different. I like more control oriented way. Won small local tournament (13 participants) with list below.

Main deck
----------
4 x Verdant Catacombs
3 x Polluted Delta
2 x Misty Rainforest
2 x Watery Grave
1 x Darkslick Shores
1 x Dryad Arbor
3 x Swamp
2 x Island

1 x Iona, Shiel of Emeria
1 x Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 x Inkwell Leviathan
1 x Blazing Archon
1 x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur

4 x Entomb
4 x Exhume
4 x Reanimate
2 x Animate Dead
4 x Mental Misstep
4 x Cabal Therapy
3 x Daze
4 x Brainstorm
3 x Careful Study
3 x Gitaxian Probe
2 x Lim-Duls Vault

Sideboard
----------
4 x Pithing Needle
3 x Spell Pierce
3 x Echoing Truth
1 x Terastodon
1 x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 x Iona, Shiled of Emeria
1 x Platinum Emperion
1 x Stormtide Leviathan

Short tournament overview: (dont remember much)
Round 1 - Mono U Merfolks
G1: t2 archon/iona
G2: t2/t3 elesh
Result: 2:0
Total: 1:0

Round 2 - UB control with Winter Orbs
G1: He have Diabolic Edict for my Inkwell (I don't have fetch for Arbor) and race me with some 1/1 merfolks.
G2: He have Boomerang for my createre, i land Iona after.
G3: Iona
R: 2:1
T: 2:0

Round 3 - U/W Stoneforge Mystic (extended version, hehe)
G1: He won some important counter war. Bounce my creature with Jace.
G2: He race reanimated Inkwell with equiped Mystic and Baterskull.
R: 0:2
T: 2:1

Round 4 - Mono U Merfolks
G1: Quick Archon/Iona.
G2: Elesh (he mull to 5)
R: 2:0
T: 3:1

Round 5 - Mono U Belcher (Mana Severance + Goblin Charbelcher combo)
G1: He have enough counters to back up his combo.
G2: He was after Mana Severance, but didnt draw Charbelcher next three turns so Iona race him.
G3: Pithing Needle to Charbelcher (second resolved).
R: 2:1
T: 4:1

Standings was good for me so i take first place.
Notes: In this build Jin dont fit so much. I never animated him at tourney. Elesh shined. Merfolk oponents dont expected him after g1 so they dont have right answer.

Hi guys,

@TheBloody

I know you don't have undergrounds and forces which makes the deck a lot weaker but using gitaxian probe and lim dul's vault WITH shock lands and only 2 animate deads is gonna kill you fast when you reanimate 66,7% of the time .what do you use dryad arbor for? Just for the occasional "sacrifice a creature spell ? Cause i see no green mana is needed in your deck at all.
If you are going for a slower version then wouldn't it be better to add some show and tells and ponders instead of lim dul's and/or reanimates main board?

@MirrorMask: Yeah, it killing me fast, but it isn't problem if u can stop opponent deck (iona,archon,sphinx), stabilize game and win. Dryad arbor is here for cabal therapy, green fetches find her. Lim-Duls Vault won me games, but as you stated it is slow so only 2 pieces are there. It shines when you discard opponents relevant spells with therapy and you don't have combo pieces. You can find both.
Show and tell force me to play more creatures which i dont have space for. But i didnt test it with ponders. I tested lim duls + ponders and it didnt work for me. Also to power up show and tell i have to have right creature in hand and if i will play ponders, i probably find entomb first.
Gitaxian probe work good with therapy and i often play it as "counter me" spell with no mana in play for 2 life if i have it in my opening hand. When they dont counter it, it support your therapy. If they do, they have one counter less which is good. Probe also dont destroy our discard EOT strategy if it isnt countered.

@TheBloody:

I would do the following to your mana base (assuming low or normal amounts of Stifle and Wasteland in your meta):

-2 Swamp
-1 Island
+3 Darkslick Shores

-1 Dryad Arbor (move to SB; very often useless G1 when drawn)
+1 Polluted Delta

(and later -1 Misty Rainforest/Watery Grave, +1 Underground Sea)


This will make you fetch for Watery Grave more often, but it reduces the chance of having 2x the same basic in opening hand without access to the other color. It's a trade-off.




In other news, including Jin as 3+ x with FoW, Daze, MM support typically makes the MD Probe + Therapy tech redundant because no matter what they have in their hand, Jin is going to discard it all in their cleanup step. But that really requires protecting Jin from StoP with FoW. But in your FoW-less list, I think your approach is better than running just plain Thoughtseize (2 life loss, grabs only 1 card instead of multiples, no cantrip effect).

You may also wish to take a look at 4eak's take on budget Reanimator, which is a different approach.

@Karhumies:
Thanks for advices. Good point with dryad arbor. But i dont like darkslick shores so much, because there is incooperation with daze. In my 1 x darslick shores build i was in situation where my hand contained shores as only blue mana source and daze.
On the other hand, im close to buy my first underground sea.

@ theBloody

I have to agree with all of the points made here. I recognize you are trying to build on a budget. I would suggest losing some basic lands in favor of Darkslick Shores or Watery Graves. If you can get your hands on some Show and Tells, I think that would help your list out a bit. SnT in place of Ponders and or Lim-Dul's Vaults seems good to me. You are correct that you would need to run a few more creatures in that case. I hope that helps.

@ Forum

You guys know the drill... here are the stats for 50 games of Garobidou's variant 3 on the play. Questions, ask em' if you got em'!

Variant Three on the Play
Game Turn Reanimated Quality Counter/Extra Reanimation Back Up Subsequent Reanimate
1 4 Jin/MD Daze/MM None
2 4 Jin/HR Daze/Exhume/Reanimate Sphinx
3 2 Jin/E Animate Dead Archon
4 2 Jin/E MM/MM/FoW None
5 3 Jin/CS Daze/Animate Dead Any Creature
6 3 Jin/CS MM/Daze Iona/Archon
7 5 Jin/CS MM/Reanimate None
8 2 Jin/E Daze/Animate Dead Iona/Inkwell
9 2 Jin/E MM/FoW Any Creature
10 4 Jin/E Daze/MM/FoW Any Creature
11 2 Jin/E None Iona/Inkwell
12 2 Jin/CS Daze/FoW Any Creature
13 2 Jin/HR MM/Exhume Iona/Archon
14 2 Jin/HR Daze/Animate Dead/Exhume Any Creature
15 3 Inkwell/CS Daze/Exhume None
16 3 Jin/E Daze/FoW None
17 3 Jin/CS Daze/MM/MM/FoW Any Creature
18 2 Jin/E MM/MM/Daze Iona
19 2 Jin/HR Daze/FoW/Animate Dead Any Creature
20 3 Jin/E FoW/FoW/Animate Dead Any Creature
21 2 Jin/E FoW/Reanimate Iona
22 4 Jin/CS MM/MM Any Creature
23 2 Jin/E Daze/Exhume None
24 2 Iona/CS Daze/Animate Dead Inkwell
25 2 Jin/E Daze/Reanimate Any Creature
26 3 Iona/HR FoW None
27 4 Jin/HR MM/FoW/FoW/FoW Iona
28 2 Jin/E Reanimate Iona/Archon
29 2 Jin/HR FoW Sphinx/Inkwell
30 3 Jin/CS Daze Any Creature
31 7 Archon/HR MM/MM/FoW/FoW/Reanimate None
32 2 Jin/CS FoW Any Creature
33 2 Jin/E MM/Reanimate Sphinx
34 2 Jin/E MM/Exhume Archon
35 3 Jin/E MM/Daze Sphinx/Inkwell
36 2 Jin/E FoW/Animate Dead Iona/Archon
37 2 Jin/E MM/MM/FoW/Reanimate Archon
38 6 Jin/E MM/MM/Daze/Daze/FoW Sphinx
39 2 Jin/E None Any Creature
40 2 Jin/E Daze Archon
41 4 Archon/MD FoW/Reanimate/Reanimate/Reanimate Any Creature
42 11 Jin/E MM/MM/FoW/Fow None
43 3 Jin/E FoW/FoW Iona/Archon
44 2 Jin/E None Iona/Archon
45 3 Jin/CS Daze/MM Iona/Archon/Sphinx
46 2 Jin/E Daze Any Creature
47 2 Jin/CS MM/MM/Exhume/Exhume/Reanimate Sphinx
48 2 Jin/CS FoW/FoW/FoW Any Creature
49 2 Jin/E None Sphinx/Archon
50 2 Jin/HR Daze/FoW/Reanimate Any Creature

Here are the relevant stats condensed.
Turn Reanimated: Number of Games
2:29
3:11
4:6
5:1
6:1
7:1
11:1

These values give us an average turn reanimated of 2.88. This is significantly higher than the other builds I have tested so far (Variant 1:2.72 and Variant 2:2.66). I also feel that I mulliganed far more with this build. Mulligans were not a stat that I was keeping so this is just a qualitative observation. I was surprised how often I would mulligan away a poor hand with this build and get another poor hand. I will be working on comparing this build on the draw, next. Stay tuned for the results!

@ TheBloody:

My previous manabase suggestions do not affect your deck's effective Island count for Daze. Here's a re-cap:

-2 Swamp
-1 Dryad Arbor
+3 Darkslick Shores

= no change whatsoever

-1 basic Island
+1 Polluted Delta to fetch an Island whenever necessary

= no effective change in Island-count game play-wise for Daze. Well, unless you really want to play 2 Daze on the same turn without fetching for Watery Grave to play the second.