Lemnear, great goldfish scenarios. I'll have to get more solo practice in.
I used to goldfish assuming a T2 hatebear or assume I'd be at 16 life by T3.
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Lemnear, great goldfish scenarios. I'll have to get more solo practice in.
I used to goldfish assuming a T2 hatebear or assume I'd be at 16 life by T3.
@ lem.
How would you board vs patriot then?
Considering you took the OP list, your boarding is ok. I just wanted to intervene with the idea of "opponent might board in REB's -> automatically board out Ponders" which I had the impression was the messageQuote:
Originally Posted by Togores
At the start i boardef out 2 cabal rit and mox. Then g3 having seen both reb. I thought was better to side 2 ponders. And will stick with the ponder plan.
Noticed that the 2 example-scenarios I wrote down within a Minute are poorly worded. Sorry guys. I hope you get the idea non the less :)
Hi guys, long time lurker, first time poster.
I've played this deck for a couple of years, and have top 8'd nearly every tournament I've played with it. I'm still on the 4/3 therapy/silence split since combo is fairly rampant in my local meta, and silence has been a great tool to get me over the top. It's the kind of meta where in a 40 man event belcher/oops decks somehow manage to durdle their way into the 4-0 bracket. I'm keen to incorporate the cabal rituals (which is something I've been thinking about doing recently anyway, to help chaining and ritualing out of thalias) but need to cut one more card to squeeze in the second ritual. I'm playing Bryant's last stock revision. What are your thoughts? A chrome mox? A ponder?
Massacre isn't a card I've been keen on recently because D&T is so plains light. What are people's thoughts on toxic deluge or even nausea? I ended up discarding the idea of virtue's ruin because I want to hit revokers, and pyroclasm hasn't been amazing because people tend to keep their moms in against me. The revoker/thalia combination seems more problematic than decks playing meddling mages and canonists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by satyr
It's the revision before the current OP list that still had 3 silences and 4 therapies. I'm trying to make a build with 3 silences and 4 therapies work, but after moving an infernal tutor to the board, I need to cut a card for a second cabal ritual, and I'm having difficulty choosing what I cut.
I don't think aegis is a problem that needs removal. We have warrens. I've never had problems with decks running meddling mages or non death and taxes builds running ethersworn canonists. Both decks are usually light on hard counters or any other form of disruption, and on the draw a silence walk on their turn 2 gives you 2 turns to assemble something that can win. They usually don't play more than 2 canonists, and you can play around meddling mage if you board well. If I'm worried about delver beats I have grapeshot. What I have difficulty dealing with are D&T draws of revoker and thalia on the draw game 2 if I mull to sub-optimal hand. While I appreciate that toxic deluge is terrible to cast, nausea is looking attractive because pyroclasm is not necessarily a guaranteed wipe.
Hello
went to a small tournament this week end
succeed to make a draw against MUD !
no special stuff here just presure him with goblins the first game and take time to loose after 40 minutes lol ^^ (block all his creture with my goblin one by one he finish at 35 life :p)
and early goblin turn 1 make the second game quicker and win for me
and he couldnt win in aditional turn and me netiher because of chalice at 1
second match win against junk
nothing special early token game 1 for the win (he put shaman + jitte for the next turn but i kill his shaman with grapeshoot to attack again with goblins)
try to do the same the second game but took pernicious dead and canonist + dark confidant I had a burning wish in hand with enough mana open to get massacre but completly forgot that i've add this card in the side the same morning.
3rd game ad nauseam turn 1 for the game
third match shardless
2 times turn 1 goblin with finger cross to not getting golgari but it was ok
4th match rug Delver
succed to get enough mana to pass daze and pierce for 14 token turn 5 with no pressure
second game wass impossible got turbo mana + tutor i check his hand with 3 fow 1 pierce 1 daze 1 and stifle i couldn't win this one
3rd turn 2 for natural tendril without nothing special in his hand just duress daze turn before
5th match angain bug
turn one 14 token was enough
second game was just funny i've made the best missplay ever for the first time i ve try to not probe and instead i brainstorm
for info my hand was (land petal ponder empty brainstorm probe land) my brainstorm show me led led land I was so exited to make token shoot again
i just put back card for brainstorm (normally empty in the 2) and lotus led led crack lotus for ponder crack led and led to play empty from my top deck but ah ah in my exitment just forgot to put back empty who was in my hand ^^ and put back 2 land instead ... no hand loose
last was one turn 1 empty make the game
Really love this deck :)
have a nice week
Quote:
Originally Posted by satyr
Edit: fantastic Jay! GZ
Hello, everybody,
I´ve been lurking around for quite some time and played the deck for about a year and a half. I had been thinking about moving for ant, but didn't want to buy my polluted deltas. but now i got them, i still play tes 'cause it's faster =)
loved the change off to silence, although i love the card =/, cause now it's equiped w/ a better manabase (cya, city of brass =X). also, the cabal rituals really made the cross between tes and ant i longed for.
anyways, last week i scored my second t4 playing the deck, after playing UWR delver for a while, to "learn to play fair".
reporting:
mono black control 2x1
sneak and show 2x1
merfolk 2x1
BUG delver ID (it was a friend of mine, and we thought we could make it through the T8. big mistake =X)
jund 2x1
lost to burn on t4 1x2 (pyrostatic pillar game 1 was really hurtful =/)
anyways, loving the deck the way it is, just hope to get to play silence again anytime soon, though I dont really miss the "painland"
i would like to thanks every1 here for the comments and idea exchanges, and bryant cook for writing such great articles and primer.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...6133786280.png
Will we see this in TES, or any storm deck in general?
Copying a spell does not retrigger storm, so what is so important that you want to spend 2 mana and a card to copy it?Quote:
Will we see this in TES, or any storm deck in general?
Fork and Twincast are available since ages and never saw play in storm because of their cost. What use did you have in mind for this one?Quote:
Originally Posted by paeng4983
Last night I tried out Lemnear's Pyromancer variant, here are my first impressions:
I like the manabase: all the fetches and such are very consistent, I never felt color-screwed w/o Gemstone Mine because 3 colors is pretty easy to manage.
The Pyromancer plan is pretty narrow: I don't see it being useful in anything other than a few delver matches and miracles. historically, this sorta parallels the past where siding multiple EtW was a thing, so I'm not too surprised overall.
Last night I actually did get to play against Miracles, against Joe Lossett, and I lost 1-2. game 1 I just won turn 1, game 2 I used some discard only to get caught by Counterbalance with FoW backup on my Pyroblast. I tried to land a Pyromancer, but he had Wear/Tear on top and a SDT to keep it there. Game 3 I had to mull to 5 (though that may have been a mistake, i'm not sure) and was taken apart by Counter-Top, never even saw Pyromancer.
I don't actually think Pyroblast is that good against Miracles, they can just hold up a counterspell on your turns, and then play Counterbalance later when they actually have the mana to defend it. Pyroblast really only seems good in conjunction with a lot of discard, which both the stock build and the build I'm testing have cut down on slightly. Though, I've also lost quite a few games waiting on Abrupt Decays that never showed up while Clique beat me to death, so I'm not sure if the reactive answers are good at all, it might be good to swap 1-2 of the Pyroblasts for Duress or something. Especially since discard is more proactive to synergize with Pyromancers. Generally, Joe Lossett's build is quite tough, given some of his tech choices and high level of experience.
I'll be trying again with this build, Wednesday night, maybe tonight
If they have Top, Counterbalance, Force and a blue card to pitch, you will probably just lose anyway. Try not to let that distract you from what are good cards and what aren't. I mean, if you had Decay instead of the Blast, you would have destroyed Counterbalance, but lost to the counterspells taking care of your combo turn.
Decay is the better card to get rid of Counterbalance and hate bears, but Pyroblast is easier on the mana base, and it can help counter Force of Will and its brothers. So the Blast is more versatile and easier to cast. The current lists by Bryant and Lemnear have very limited access, or none at all, to mana of any colour. This improves our average game, because we get to run more fetch, which dramatically improves our cantrips. The downside is that we don't/hardly get to play cards like Decay with the current setup. If the meta shifts back to Canadian Thresh as the dominant Delver deck, we will have to use Silence again, which will force us into Rainbow lands again, allowing us to use Decay again as well, moving back to something similar to the original list. It's a meta thing, but right now Blasts should be a tad better than Decays.
I do agree some configurations or hands from miracles are pretty unbeatable, my main gripe about Pyroblast compared to discard or Abrupt Decays is that sitting there with a red up for Pyroblast means I can't be aggressively trying to discard cards, resolve wishes, play Pyromancers, etc. Discard is the aggressive play, and Decay can go ahead and remove the Counterbalance after the fact. With Tropical Island, and the longer average game against Miracles, I think it's pretty feasible to have a green mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asthereal
I do concede that in the games I lost to Miracles, their setup was above average, or my opener was pretty bad (it's hard to hit a critical mass of business when you have to mull to 5 :P), so I'll test a bit more before trying different configurations.
As long as Miracles plays Brainstorm to hide their Counterbalance from your discard, run at least 3 of them to topdeck, run several Cliques or have access to Enlightend Tutor as an response to Thoughtseize, discarded alone doesn't get the job done properly. I don't see a problem on tanking with a Pyroblast until they drop CB or cast their Clique in your upkeep so you can blast it for a HUGE tempo swing and combo right after that.
So out of the pratice games ive been playing I included a Goblin war strike, and its really over performed. I always get hands where I only have a wish in my hand after I empty, and they die next turn
Usually I empty my hand as well as the warrens if going for Goblins. This deck has no space for cute and situational win-more cardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper
Idk, I feel like it gives you a better match up versus deck that can deal with empty, and I guess I can see it as a win-more but I have noticed that in a lot of games I have burning wish as the last card in my hand and sometimes I just kill them in 1 turn with 8 goblinsQuote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
If your EtW army doesn't get there, you can always use the Wish to get the Grapeshot to shoot at their last points of life.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper
Grapeshot has more purposes though, like killing Gaddock Teeg, Thalia and so on. Goblin War Stike really has only that one use.
I would play Chain Lightning over Goblin War Strike, atleast it can kill hate bears and can be sided in too. Although like everyone else I think Grapeshot is enough.
There's also the option to Burning Wish for Thoughtseize if they tutored up Batterskull or something else of the like.
In other news, I'll be in Providence this weekend and the invitational next weekend. Expect some showers.
Are you planning to write a report? It would be great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Let's see how I do first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niggurath
Let's hope well enough to warrant something entertaining gets written.
How the hell do you make 8 goblins turn 1 without LED?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper
BW or IT = 2 mana
Empty = 4 mana
Land drop gets you 1 mana. You need 5 more mana with 2 spells and have to R or RR (if BW is the tutor). I don't think 8 goblins are possible to produce without Simian Spirit guide
Volc, Rite, Rite, Petal/Probe/Led/Mox, natural EtW.
He may have just meant in any one turn, not specifically turn 1, but I could be reading it wrong.
p.c.
You ask the wrong question, Matt. The questions which needs to be asked for this scenario is how EtW is grabbed if there is still a Burning Wish left in his hand. That limits the scenarios to BW + EtW + at least 4 mana + at least 3 mana to follow up with War Strike and raises the question why the mana wasn't spend to make more goblins in the first place (precious wish for TS for example) or a second which includes 2 Wishes + 6 mana + at least 3 mana to follow up with War Strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
Both scenarios are not only unlikely, but also hint towards inefficient use of resources and cards and left me wondering why the otherwise leftover wish wasn't cast prior to the storm spell or used to fetch a Grapeshot/Thoughtseize to defend the goblins or to finish his opponent.
It just doesn't make sense in the slightest
It's usually when I open up with empty, its actual not too far fetched at all. Like a probe/petal/dark ritual/empty will do it, but ya if i ever tutor turn 1 its because im using LED.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tammit67
Were have an empty in our main deck lol, and I usually do look to protect the spell. But if I probe them, and they have no interaction (which happens), I'm not going to waste resources just to strip a card out of their hand, even if it is a difference of 4 goblins. I admit, the turn 1 goblin turn to wish for war strike is unlikely, but I have noticed that building up and creating your hand is for sure possible turn 3 to get goblins and kill them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
How often would War Strike help you win a game you would have lost? It feels like most of the time the card is useful, you have firm control of the board.
@Dr Brian Pepper
try also Reprocess for that purpose. http://gatherer.wizards.com/pages/Ca...tiverseid=5558
Joke.
@People in general and mainly Lemnear, Bryant, Togores, and F.Fortune and Bahamut:
I think I've finally found my stable side:
I think at least I prefer to play 3 A.Decay and not pyroblast.
I've seen so many Storm player loosing also to a Senseis plus Fluster on top so many times...
A.Decay provides protection for: C.B., Senseis, M.M. and Canonist.
I really find Vendilion not as important as those below.
I don't usually use Pyro as a card vs counters, absolutly I prefer discard for this role, so the unique role that accomplishes pyro is in tempo and to be proactive vs c.b. an vs Vencilion, threat that is not as powerfull vs us.
I've been testing several combinations vs miracles and winning goes through WinAsFast or LooseToCBUnLessDecay,
I am still debating about the way to side when you start and when you don't.
Another point: I was testing the 3Gemstone 5 Fetch Setting and tested it in a 50 torunament, I really idn't notice the difference, I'm not sure if to change to 4Gemstone, maybe I'll do so, the first 3 games were vs 3 Jund and in sme I drew several fetch which were usefull. won 6-0 vs all, lost vs a BlueInfect Deck... won 1st game but loose maybe due to that fetch and becyase I sided the Xantid, in here I would have preferred even more discard... and loose vs Togores paisano! in a shitty and awfull games, maybe should have mulliganed but I was in a hurry - needed to go and also f*** from before game... I think I'll go for 4 gemstone again - Bahamut - Lemnear would you play 3 gemstone 5 fetch in the Opening Post List?
playing storm with discard and next evenmore discard has been a great strategy vs SneakAttack and vs Reanimator sometimes I would have preferred discard instead the xantid, so I still keep the 2 pyro as they are great vs Patriot and RUG, so don't worry about omnishow with leylines which is the unique deck and even isn't played by here...
well I didn't notice it was Providence - Rhode Island! the city of the great H.P Lovecraft! good luck there and take carefull of the Shoggoths, I've read storys that there are still some by there stalking in the night... I'm getting better my english more and more! let us know next how did you do specially vs miracles if you find some, hope not!
Yeah and how you want to get hands on that EtW aside the natural draw or cantrips if you obviously have not infernal'd for it as you have the Wish still in hand? Why did you choose to cantrip into EtW rather than simply wishing for it in the first place if you have all the mana AND the Wish already around?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper
Btw. 4 goblins is one hell of a difference against blockers. Unless you are in game 1 against RUG Delver, I can't see goblins as a successful option in turn 3 and ongoing.
I feel both topics in this post, SB cards and manabase, are entwined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
First, I rode the 3 Decay like a bike with training wheels during last year and just failed to be able to cast them every fucking time I was paired against a deck with Chalice or Thorn as Wasteland completely ripped the iffy 4c manabase or they got stuck in my hand because I was unwilling to cripple my manabase by fetching a Tropical against Patriot and lack red mana afterwards (This was before we reemployed Pyroblast to do the dirty work and remove Meddling Mages). Here comes the problem: as Decay is in fact completely useless against UW Blade or Chalice.dec so you can only board them against Miracles. That's insanely limited to dedicate a full 3 slots AND putting a huge burden on your manabase (and the reason I'm desperately trying to sidestep CB and Chalice by options like YP).
What you are asking is to increase the count on Decays while reducing the number of rainbow lands. Mind, that without a Gemstone Mine you have to have 3 different inital mana sources in play to support all your spells. From my own devastating experiences, I'd rather increase the number of gold lands once more to support more SB decays than doing the exact opposite.
Now looks at Pyroblast and it's wide-spread application against anything ranging from Meddling Mages to Delver to CB to Clique to Shardless Agent to Show & Tell to understand why I'm fine to have that card in my sideboard even if it's not a strong training wheel option against Miracles like Decay would be and am even ok with altering my playstyle for that card. It's cheaper and on-color too, so I seeing Pyroblast as a weaker but more versatile option to battle the metagame.
Well on the draw against stoneforge usually, batter skull is hard to beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
[QUOTE=Lemnear;815971]Yeah and how you want to get hands on that EtW aside the natural draw or cantrips if you obviously have not infernal'd for it as you have the Wish still in hand? Why did you choose to cantrip into EtW rather than simply wishing for it in the first place if you have all the mana AND the Wish already around?
Btw. 4 goblins is one hell of a difference against blockers. Unless you are in game 1 against RUG Delver, I can't see goblins as a successful option in turn 3 and ongoing.
Most of the time the hand needs to be developed, and willing banking on wish and looking for more spells I get empty and can kill them in one turn with goblins, and goblins are very successful going into turn 3 because I also have war strike lol
Then why not run Shattering Spree? Lets you take out COTV as well and gets around counters quite well.
If you decide to sculpt your hand 3 turns while being on the draw against Batterskull and still decide to go for EtW, you may want to rethink your decision-tree and boarding plans. If you want to slow-roll that matchup you should side out an Infernal among a Ponder so you have lots of wish targets which are much better than EtW AFTER Batterskull hit the table. You have at least 10 virtual discard-spells in your deck, so I would ask myself first, why the Skull slipped through those and onto the field.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Brian Pepper
Why, if you obviously had all the mana, didn't you wish for Thoughtseize and discard the Batterskull before building up a goblin army (possbily in the same turn to boost your stormcount)?
@Dice
Mentioned Spree in regards to Pepper's Batterskull issue?