[Deck] Elves Combo

Well, let's not misinterpret my point. The thing is, there was many posts where it was alleging that this version is better than that and stuff. That's what I'm talking about. I never said that my build is the best or something, nothing like that, I just said that it suits my playstyle the most. Let's quit "my build is better than others" attitude and actually talk about the actual strategy.

And obviously post your decklist, it's not only for me, it's for everyone who's interested on building an elf deck.

Anyway, is there something that actually can stop stuff like Perish and Firespout?

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Well, let's not misinterpret my point. The thing is, there was many posts where it was alleging that this version is better than that and stuff. That's what I'm talking about. I never said that my build is the best or something, nothing like that, I just said that it suits my playstyle the most. Let's quit "my build is better than others" attitude and actually talk about the actual strategy.

And obviously post your decklist, it's not only for me, it's for everyone who's interested on building an elf deck.

Anyway, is there something that actually can stop stuff like Perish and Firespout?

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Well, Warcaller...
or, if you have Birchlore Rangers, that super-Holy Day from M10... Or Mirror Entity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Well, let's not misinterpret my point. The thing is, there was many posts where it was alleging that this version is better than that and stuff. That's what I'm talking about. I never said that my build is the best or something, nothing like that, I just said that it suits my playstyle the most. Let's quit "my build is better than others" attitude and actually talk about the actual strategy.

And obviously post your decklist, it's not only for me, it's for everyone who's interested on building an elf deck.

Anyway, is there something that actually can stop stuff like Perish and Firespout?

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I am using the tech card, Fecundity. You drop your elves and fecundity, they firespout/perish, you draw a billion cards and combo off. Seems good to me.

Otherwise, no I don't feel like there is a real way without splashing.

My maindeck changes are:
-1 Jorga, Warcaller
-1 Emrakul (As much as I love this guy)
+1 Grapeshot
+1 Eternal Witness

Went back to the grapeshot kill because my meta is full of aggro. So grapeshotting their team away is good.

Also. my sideboard is...

4 Faerie Macabre
1 Relic of Prog
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Fecundity
1 Mirror Entity
1 Umezewa's Jitte
1 Krosan Grip
1 Chord of Calling


You might be asking why the 1-ofs, well they are the aggro plan. Against aggro, I board out all 4 Leyline of Lifeforce, and bring in 1 K-grip, 1 Jitte, 1 Chord, 1 Entity. The I run the Entity plan alongside with grapeshot, because entity makes it so your creatures don't die to their burn and they can block. Chord is there to help find Entity, or another combo piece. Jitte is Jitte. K-Grip stops opposing Jitte's. Also stops Vials.

The plan works, if you can get Entity into play, you just beat aggro. Make sure you keep mana open on their turn, unless your going ftw. That is one thing I have noticed. Also, it is hard for zoo and gobbos to beat this sideboard.

Reanimator is extremely hard to beat. We almost always lose game 1. Game 2, we have to catch them with Faerie, or run Relic out there. They bring in 3 E-Truths and 3 K-Grip. Its rough.

Combo is another bad match. If its adnas, then we can get them to low enough life by going aggro...or even just beat them. Unless they can win on turn 1 or 2. Game 2 and 3, we bring in the traps and hope. It is hard.

Burn is unwinnable. Bring in Fecundity, and you have to sandbag your combo until you can win. But then again, you lose to bolt. Its our worst matchup by far. They bring in Clasm.

Enchantress...well they drop confinement, we tutor up our Zealot g1 and beat them. G2, they lose their confinement to K-Grip. Confinement is really the only enchantmenet we care about. Runed Halo on Grapeshot seems bad, but again Zealot takes care of it. They can't really stop us comboing. Seems like almost a goldfish.

So...we can beat combo , although its rough. We cant really beat Reanimator g1, but we can the other two games. And we lose to burn.

My version beats CB+Top and aggro decks. Its fair against everything else. Cept burn and Reanimator, which we beat reanimator g2 and 3. They can't deal with Macabre. =P

Thats my analysis. I have the 5k on Sunday here in Washington. I will be running this. So I will post my match ups, etc. when I can.

Thanks!
~magicplaya10

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Augustas

Anyway, is there something that actually can stop stuff like Perish and Firespout?

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Play into them, which means packing more lands and playing extra card advantage engines to recuperate from the losses faster. Assuming that they're smart enough to use their spot removal and counters for the combo enablers, any version of the deck relies on actively overextending the board in order to out pressure on the controling deck. Playing fewer threats because they might sweep the board usually just helps your opponent stabilize.

Compare it to Ichorid slowrolling its way through gravehate game two or three; you don't do silly things like trying to prevent Tormod's Crypt or whatever, you just put enough pressure on them to force a reaction but not enough to endanger the card advantage engine and proceed to win by atrition.

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Play into them, which means packing more lands and playing extra card advantage engines to recuperate from the losses faster. Assuming that they're smart enough to use their spot removal and counters for the combo enablers, any version of the deck relies on actively overextending the board in order to out pressure on the controling deck. Playing fewer threats because they might sweep the board usually just helps your opponent stabilize.

Compare it to Ichorid slowrolling its way through gravehate game two or three; you don't do silly things like trying to prevent Tormod's Crypt or whatever, you just put enough pressure on them to force a reaction but not enough to endanger the card advantage engine and proceed to win by atrition.

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Like I said, run Fecundity in the board. When you resolve it, it will make them think twice about sweeping your board. Again, I will tell you how it is during the 5k.

Ok, I'll post my list :)! I'll give some explainations on some of the card choices. And by the way: Could the people who took the deck to some tournaments write a small report or something so we can all learn from your experiences? :D!

Maindeck: 60
// Lands
15 Snow-Covered Forest
// Spells
4 Glimpse of Nature
3 Summoner's Pact
3 Chord of Calling
// Creatures
1 Mirror Entity
1 Vexing Shusher (This is a meta-dependent slot, I used to run Magus of the moon here, but Im testing shusher and uptill now he has been pretty good. Still looking for some nice alternatives tho.)
1 Regal Force
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Quirrion Ranger
4 Wirewood Hivemaster
4 Llanowar Elves
1 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary

Sideboard: 15
4 Choke (these have been very good so far, obvious against which deck you use them.)
4 Faerie Macabre/Tormod's Crypt/Relic of Progenitus (Currently I use the fearies, because they are just better against Reanimator, which is one of our biggest enemy's. Ichorid is still ok, since you can use it to take the dredges early, and then just go off. Against Lands I havent tested it yet, but I figgure that along with Magus it's hard but doable.
3 Umezewa's Jitte (obviously against aggro and such.)
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Magus of the Moon (sometimes maindeck.)
1 Elvish Champion (obv.)
1 Imperious Perfect (obv.)

I might go -1 shusher main, +1 magus and then play 1 Burrenton-Forge tender in the SB for the zoo and goblins MU. BFT carrying Jitte is gg in those games.

Tell me what you think guys :)!

~Maarten

ok guys, I went a disappointing 3-5 at SCG 5k in seattle. Althought I do have some funny highlights, the deck I realized is very dependant on drawing Glimpse. Otherwise you become a bad aggro deck...Which i have won off of before. In fact, Glimpse is almost in there as counter-bait (JK)

Here are my match ups...

Round 1- Enchantress

G1- He gets his engine going and I don't draw glimpse. Confinement prevents me from attacking and I die to angels.

If you draw glimpse in this match, you win.

G2- I drew glimpse, and killed him through Runed Halo on Grapeshot and Confinement. Zealot + Witness is a bitch for them to deal with.
G3- Turn 2 win.

Round 2- Zaiem Beg with Zoo.
Now this normally an easy match, but I drew terrible and he had good draws.
G1- He mulls to 6, and gets triple Goyf to my elves. I rip glimpse and were off to g2.
G2- He gets turn 1 Loam Lion, TUrn 2 Jitte, Turn 2 Equip and my board dies. No Glimpse =(
G3- He gets turn 1 Grim Lavamancer, and turn 2 Cannonist. I am at tard speed, I eventually zealot the cannonist, but its too late and Lavamancer + Jitte eat my elves. If I were to draw glimpse at any point of that game, I would have won because I had Zealot in hand on turn 2.

Round 3- Counterbalance + Stifle Naught
G1- I keep a no land hand with ESG and Leyline. I proceed to wreck him on turn 4, eventhough he played 3 Standstills. Counterbalance doesn't do anything for him. And triple Elvish Archdruid eats him with my hoard of uncounterable elves. Who needs lands?
G2- Turn 2 Counterbalance + Top, no leyline from me. He turn 3 CB with top in play. I drew 9 of my 11 mana sources this game. Nice. Draw.
G3- Turn 1 Top, Turn 2 Stifle Naught, Turn 3 Standstill.....yup.

Round 4- Counterbalance
G1- Leyline + Elves = Dead opponent.
G2- I combo. It was funny. He didn't have counterspells. he discarded FoW's because I had Leyline in play. And then I cast Glimpse...


Round 5- Gobbos
This is an easy match.
G1- Glimpse + Dudes...he dies
G2- He got me with cycled Incinerator + Pyrokinesis
G3- i beat him with glimpse. He did Pyro my guys away once.


Round 6- New Horizons
G1- He beats me down with Terravore, I had the Leyline in hand, but he gets me with huge trampling monsters. Engineered Explosive wiped over half my board. It wasn't good.
G2- Fecundity is boss here. I make an awesome play...I have Fecundity in play...resolve glimpse, and play elf, elf ,elf...drawing 2 lands and fecundity. I play fecundity and attack for lethal unless he blocks. he blocks, I draw like 6 cards and proceed to combo with the glimpse I cast earlier.
G3- I decide that I can out aggro him this game, because I have a decent hand with leyline of lifeforce and dudes. No glimpse. He gets goyf down, and then another, and then knight. it looks grim. I dont draw glimpse or fecundity. He has 0 cards in hand. I attack, he blocks, hes at lethal next turn so he can't attack. he draws, casts ponder, into ponder, into brainstorm, into Engineered Explosive for 1. Pop it and attacks. I draw and say go. He Attacks, I block and lose some dudes...he plays Terravore. What a match breaker. =( I can't block a huge trampler and his other big guys and die.

Round 7- G/w/b Life combo (WTF)
This is the worst match in the history of man-kind. He apperently was 3-0 and lost to Cedric Phillips with Belcher, another belcher player, and High Tide Combo.

G1- He gains 3.5 Billion life on turn 2. I lose.
G2- He gainst 3.5 billion life on turn 3. I can infinitely grapeshot him because I boarded in Mirror Entity. He vials in Doran the Explorer, and makes his guy have a huge ass by targetting it a billion times again. Gives his guy Pro Green with Mom, and I die.

Finally last round is AdNas....

Yup. I lost this one.
G1- TUrn 1 Adnas AFTER he duresses me...wow this deck is NUTZ
G2- Turn 2 AdNas. Never stood a chance.

The deck is very fun to play. I wold probably play it again, it has a great control match up and a good aggro match. I lost to bad draws (9 lands straight!!! WTF!) and my opponent having good hands to my sub-par hands.

Thats one thing I notice with this deck, it has a lot of sub-par hands when you dont draw glimpse. Symbiote + Visionary is awesome though. I would run a 3rd Visionary if I could.

I Also picked up my 4th LED and 4 Chrome Mox and petals and stuff....so I might be wielding a combo deck next time...but this is still one of my favorite decks ever. I will continue to test and play it.

And Now...

Props-
SCG for putting on an awesome event
Evan Erwin for filming me...haha it was funny when he saw my deck in action
SCG for having the awesome playmat that I had Evan Erwin and LSV sign
Elves...for being rediculously fun.

Slops-
Lands. They need to be cut. lol
Lavamancer and Jitte
Nobody knowing how the combo works. I mean come on guys! Glimpse + Guys = Win!


Thanks for Reading guys!

It's been a while since I've tooled up my elf list but this is what I've been running for months:

Summon Elves
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Heritage Druid
4x Birchlore Rangers
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Viridian Zealot
3x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Llanowar Elves

Other Creatures
4x Elvish Spirit Guide (ironic huh?)
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Eternal Witness
1x Regal Force

Tutor
3x Weird Harvest
4x Summoner's Pact

Enchantments
Concordant Crossroads

Combo
1x Grapeshot
4x Glimpse of Nature

Lands
14 Forests
1x Gaea's Cradle

Have any suggestions on some changes to be made?

A couple of questions...
1) 15 Lands - right amount to have?
2) Would you suggest using Elvish Archdruid, leyline of the force, or Joraga Warcaller?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by P-AiR

It's been a while since I've tooled up my elf list but this is what I've been running for months:

Summon Elves
4x Nettle Sentinel
4x Heritage Druid
4x Birchlore Rangers
4x Elvish Visionary
2x Viridian Zealot
3x Fyndhorn Elves
1x Llanowar Elves

Other Creatures
4x Elvish Spirit Guide (ironic huh?)
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Eternal Witness
1x Regal Force

Tutor
3x Weird Harvest
4x Summoner's Pact

Enchantments
Concordant Crossroads

Combo
1x Grapeshot
4x Glimpse of Nature

Lands
14 Forests
1x Gaea's Cradle

Have any suggestions on some changes to be made?

A couple of questions...
1) 15 Lands - right amount to have?
2) Would you suggest using Elvish Archdruid, leyline of the force, or Joraga Warcaller?

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1) yea. Only thing I would do if I ran Cradle is play a singleton Crop Rotation.
2) I wouldnt, but some others in this thread will ;) so let them explain it to you!

@P-air: Your Llanowar count should be at 6 atleast.
I don`t like Cradle in Elves, becasue as our only land it`s a mulligan, can be wasted and doesn`t combo with Quririon.
Imo your Tutor count is too high

Gaea's Cradle is the best card in the deck by far. It massively speeds the deck up and lets you do silly things like cast your Natural Order targets. Yeah, sometimes it makes you mulligan. But it's INSANELY GOOD with Joraga Warcaller. It makes your non-combo hands significantly better.

I'm pretty sure Emrakul is overkill. It's not usually been a problem to keep track of which creatures are summoning sick, untap them with Quirion Ranger/Wirewood Symbiote, then play a giant Warcaller.

I think you guys made a mistake cutting Natural Order. It's the best answer to Counterbalance and similar effects. Leyline of the Lifeforce is cool, but in game 1, a lot of decks are completely cold to Natural Order. It means you have 8 I win cards: 4 Glimpse, 4 Natural Order.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

1) yea. Only thing I would do if I ran Cradle is play a singleton Crop Rotation.

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Don't. Unless you run cradle it in multiples it's strictly worse than additional cradle copies, and even then getting around the legend rule for a quick mana boost is not worth it.

As I expected, mixed reviews on the cradle! I guess with a full set of Elvish Spirit guides, I have come to need to mulligan less.

I have noticed that I've been holding on a few too many weird harvests in my hand, I'll probably scale it down to 2 and replace them with Llanowars thank you.

Is Weird Harvest really going to be better for you than Natural Order? You can always get Regal Force, which seems so much better than casting Harvest.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anusien

Gaea's Cradle is the best card in the deck by far. It massively speeds the deck up and lets you do silly things like cast your Natural Order targets. Yeah, sometimes it makes you mulligan. But it's INSANELY GOOD with Joraga Warcaller. It makes your non-combo hands significantly better.

I'm pretty sure Emrakul is overkill. It's not usually been a problem to keep track of which creatures are summoning sick, untap them with Quirion Ranger/Wirewood Symbiote, then play a giant Warcaller.

I think you guys made a mistake cutting Natural Order. It's the best answer to Counterbalance and similar effects. Leyline of the Lifeforce is cool, but in game 1, a lot of decks are completely cold to Natural Order. It means you have 8 I win cards: 4 Glimpse, 4 Natural Order.

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@Emrakul: You should really view him as Grapeshot but in colour. Grapeshot is probably the better wincon while comboing, but Emrakul is castable and tutorable (and shuffles himself back in Library). He`s just worse vs Humiltiy and then Grape wouldn`t have done anything aswell and of course Blaing Archon. I hope i haven`t forgotten anything else.

@ Order: This may be right, but vs decks with Massremoval it isn`t soo easy to get 4Mana+Creature ( I mean in the first 4 rounds!). I loved the Oops i win factor aswell, but the fact that it falls to Perish aswell isn`t so appealing to me.

Perhaps it really depends on the meta, if we play NO or not.

I understand how Grapeshot works. However, I didn't run Grapeshot. And yes, Emrakul is technically tutorable, although most people don't have a way to tutor it up. However, I'm sure Mirror Entity is better than Grapeshot, and Joraga Warcaller is better than Mirror Entity. And he's also really awkward if you're counting on drawing it mid-combo and it's the last card...

Natural Order is a better card against decks with removal, not worse. Because if they can kill your guys, you're never going to combo. But getting up to 4 mana + a guy isn't very hard. Sure, it loses to Perish too, but you're going to scoop to Perish no matter what, so it's irrelevant what you play then.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anusien

I understand how Grapeshot works. However, I didn't run Grapeshot. And yes, Emrakul is technically tutorable, although most people don't have a way to tutor it up. However, I'm sure Mirror Entity is better than Grapeshot, and Joraga Warcaller is better than Mirror Entity. And he's also really awkward if you're counting on drawing it mid-combo and it's the last card...

Natural Order is a better card against decks with removal, not worse. Because if they can kill your guys, you're never going to combo. But getting up to 4 mana + a guy isn't very hard. Sure, it loses to Perish too, but you're going to scoop to Perish no matter what, so it's irrelevant what you play then.

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In what way is Warcaller better then Entity? Entity gives you an alternate way in going infinite. I play the Entity version of the deck, list a few posts up. Chord is probably one of the strongest tutors the deck can have, since it can get you any kind of sick creatures/sb options and its an instant. I play with and without NO, im not sure what I like better.

Banefire is a nice kill also, I run banefire as combo kill when I play the natural order version.

Mirror Entity is fine, but it's expensive and non-green so you don't want to play a lot.

Rather than just playing Mirror Entity and a bunch of Chords (like I used to), you can just play more Warcallers. You can cycle them when you're going off, or you can play them out to beat Plagues. The deck runs much smoother with Warcaller than Entity from my experience, since it's easier to find your win condition. The problem with Entity is that winning with Chord is expensive and actually casting Entity with white mana is nontrivial.

Try this decklist:

6 Forest
2 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendelhaven

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Joraga Warcaller
4 Elvish Visionary

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Natural Order

1 Regal Force
1 Progenitus
1 Harmonic Sliver

I'm dubious about a few cards like the white mana and the Harmonic Sliver, but the rest of the deck is so very sick.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anusien

Mirror Entity is fine, but it's expensive and non-green so you don't want to play a lot.

Rather than just playing Mirror Entity and a bunch of Chords (like I used to), you can just play more Warcallers. You can cycle them when you're going off, or you can play them out to beat Plagues. The deck runs much smoother with Warcaller than Entity from my experience, since it's easier to find your win condition. The problem with Entity is that winning with Chord is expensive and actually casting Entity with white mana is nontrivial.

Try this decklist:

6 Forest
2 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
4 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendelhaven

4 Birchlore Rangers
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Quirion Ranger
3 Joraga Warcaller
4 Elvish Visionary

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Natural Order

1 Regal Force
1 Progenitus
1 Harmonic Sliver

I'm dubious about a few cards like the white mana and the Harmonic Sliver, but the rest of the deck is so very sick.

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I like the list, but I dont like the splash for white for sliver... Just run viridian shaman instead, your manabase opens you up to much to stifle and wasteland imo. 4 Cradles also seems like overkill to me. The 1 pendelhaven is something I cut, but might put back in there, not sure yet. I guess I have to test this out.

I do like the fact that you can bounce you warcaller and replay it with a bigger kicker if you go off, I'm not sure about dropping wirewood hivemaster.. I like that card alot.

And chord is really an awesome card. It can fetch stuff like Magus of the moon etc.

I'll test your version, I think its a decision between what version of the deck has the best alternative next to the combo plan. Entity gives you an alternate way of going infinite, while warcaller might make your aggroplan stronger, and also raise you defense against cards like plague.

EDIT:
I dont like the fact you dropped Summoner's pact. I run pact and NO 3-3 in my NO build.
I have never had a problem with running 3 NO, 4 seems a bit like overkill to me.

Tell me what you think ;)

~Maarten

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 1maarten1

I like the list, but I dont like the splash for white for sliver... Just run viridian shaman instead, your manabase opens you up to much to stifle and wasteland imo. 4 Cradles also seems like overkill to me. The 1 pendelhaven is something I cut, but might put back in there, not sure yet. I guess I have to test this out.

I do like the fact that you can bounce you warcaller and replay it with a bigger kicker if you go off, I'm not sure about dropping wirewood hivemaster.. I like that card alot.

And chord is really an awesome card. It can fetch stuff like Magus of the moon etc.

I'll test your version, I think its a decision between what version of the deck has the best alternative next to the combo plan. Entity gives you an alternate way of going infinite, while warcaller might make your aggroplan stronger, and also raise you defense against cards like plague.

EDIT:
I dont like the fact you dropped Summoner's pact. I run pact and NO 3-3 in my NO build.
I have never had a problem with running 3 NO, 4 seems a bit like overkill to me.

Tell me what you think ;)

~Maarten

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4 Natural Order is fine. I had 3 and I always wanted more. You win if it resolves, and it's the best way to beat counters.

Viridian Shaman doesn't kill Counterbalance, which is relevant.

Chord fetching Magus of the Moon is cute, but I don't think I'd junk up my sideboard by running it even if I could.

I had Summoner's Pact for a while but it was never safe to cast it; they could always get you with removal.

If they wasteland my Savannahs, they aren't hitting my Gaea's Cradle, so I'm okay with that.

Pendelhaven is important to beat stuff like Goblin Sharpshooter. It costs you nothing so might as well.