[Deck]BUx Reanimator

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Originally Posted by kingsey

Hey guys,

I've been playing tin fins reanimator for awhile now, and after a few bad runs I'm thinking of switching to regular reanimator. Questions

1. What do you think makes normal reanimator more consistent then tin fins? Or do you think they are the same?

2. Against the tier decks now do you just get grizzelbees everytime or what matches still warrant Iyona? Death and Taxes?

3. I've been reading about the red splash. I like the idea of running basics. Lots of tempo in my area. How great is it?

Thanks for your time :smile:

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1.) Due to our narrowed focus, we always have hands that either have the combo + protection, cantrips to find the combo + protection or combo + cantrips to find protection. Because Tin Fins has a 4th element to it, Storm (and it's required mana spells like Dark Ritual + Chrome Mox), we avoid hands like Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, land, Children of Korlis, Thoughtseize, blank, blank. In Reanimator, you often are a single piece away from comboing out whereas with Tin Fins, you may find yourself 2+ pieces away.

2.) I still pretty much go for Grizz everytime. One activation, even if he gets StPed or bounced, is often enough to put me so far ahead, they can't come back.

3.) I'm still on the standard UB version.

Congratz Jamie! I can see why you did play reanimator after your BOM result.

PS: great pairings you had there, you probably would have crushed with ANT too

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

Congratulations on the finish. Regarding your list: What conditions warrant bringing in the Dark Rituals? As well at the Chancellor. Having only a single Massacre and EE, relying on card filter to find them, how successful were you?

Thanks.

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I've seen Dark Rituals in some sideboards too and was considering it instead of City of Traitors. I believe it's there for the non-countermagic decks where you can just board for more speed (although I'm not certain that's necessary?). It seems like it could be helpful vs the tempo decks too to power through their taxing countermagic.

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Originally Posted by kingsey

Hey guys,

I've been playing tin fins reanimator for awhile now, and after a few bad runs I'm thinking of switching to regular reanimator. Questions

1. What do you think makes normal reanimator more consistent then tin fins? Or do you think they are the same?

2. Against the tier decks now do you just get grizzelbees everytime or what matches still warrant Iyona? Death and Taxes?

3. I've been reading about the red splash. I like the idea of running basics. Lots of tempo in my area. How great is it?

Thanks for your time :smile:

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1) Arsenal gives a good answer to this. Also, in general, the faster a combo deck is, it is usually less consistent or less protected. A large part of Reanimator's power over most other combo decks is its ability to protect itself as well through free counterspells + discard vs most other combo decks usually only have one of the two available to it.

2. Griselbrand should be your general go-to guy unless you have a particular situation you need your other toolbox guys for. Iona is pretty much there for the combo matchups - she's actually surprisingly bad vs Death & Taxes due to their ability to still function under Aether Vial and the multiple Karakas they play. Elesh Norn is usually better because even if they Karakas or Plow her, you're going to wipe their board (barring a Batterskull or SoFI equipped guy). Ideally, you want something that can't be Karakas'd against them anyways.

3. Still playing around with the red splash and enjoying it. You can still run basics, just trimming down to 1 Island, 1 Swamp instead of the normal 1/2 split.

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Originally Posted by JamieW89

Won the Dutch legacy nationals (89 people?) yesterday with Reanimator. Much of it can be attributed to my pairings though, Affinity, Goblins and triple Elves is somewhat unusual. I had not touched the deck before, and I'm sure my play was sloppy, but the deck certainly does some broken things.

My pairings:
Affinity 2-1 (lost a game to tezz ultimate which was fast enough because of a spell pierce)
Goblins 2-0
Death Blade 1-2 (seems like a fairly weak MU, this match did feel winnable though)
Elves 2-1 (lost a game to DRS)
Elves 2-1 (lost a game because of him playing ooze after I needled DRS, turned out he tapped non-elves for Heritage Druid though)
Elves 2-0
UWR ID
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UWR 2-1 (lost g1, might have won if I had delayed all plays by a turn)
R Painter 2-0
Finals opponent had dropped (we split prices), would have been BUG or TES

My list:
4 Griselbrand
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Tidespout Tyrant

4 Force of Will
3 Thoughtseize
2 Daze

4 Brainstorm
4 Careful Study
3 Ponder

4 Entomb
4 Reanimate
3 Exhume
1 Animate Dead
2 Show and Tell

3 Lotus Petal
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
4 Underground Sea
2 Island
2 Swamp

Sideboard
2 City of Traitors
2 Show and Tell
1 Ashen Rider
1 Blazing Archon
3 Pithing Needle
2 Echoing Truth
2 Flusterstorm
2 Duress

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Congrats on your finish!

So I'm on the draw, game 1, vs Esper Stoneblade and I see this hand:

Force of Will, Brainstorm, Careful Study, Daze, Entomb, Reanimate, Lotus Petal.

I end up keeping and get punished when I don't draw a land and my Brainstorm finds none, but I'm curious how many others would've kept it?

I understand it was greedy but it was hard to pass up the stone cold nuts if I draw a land...

I would have not keep that hand because I hate hands that rely on brainstorm to do something.
If you had ponder instead maybe I would have kept, and if you had a creature in hand I surely had: my reasoning is that in that case you'd play study, bin the creature and see 2 more cards (3 considering the draw for the turn) and don't brain-lock yourself if you don't find a land, and in the process you are also halfway in the combo.

In the end this deck requires guts to play, but the reward is high.

Sent from my mobile, forgive me for grammar errors.

I would have kept it, considering real bad luck if I don't hit a land in 3 cards seen. But we play like 13-15 lands, which is low count and the chances are not perfect

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HTC EVO 3D GSM
JB4.3.1 | 27 October 2013
Johnny 798 RAM | Deadline
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Yeah, I know it was greedy. I was just curious how many people would've kept it.

The match didn't matter since I was already a lock for T4 even with a loss, so I figured #YOLO :)

Another question given the resurgence of the Stoneblade decks - other than Griselbrand, are there any other fatties we can think of that are very strong against them?

Traditionally, I think we use Inkwell Leviathan against blue control, but against the Stoneforge Mystics, I don't like how Batterskull can race it.

I actually like Sphinx of the Steel Wind in theory because their only outs are StP or Jace, but I was wondering if anyone had come any silver bullet creatures against them?

If your concern is batterskull alone I think empyreal archangel may be of help, but still I think that leviathan is better.

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

If your concern is batterskull alone I think empyreal archangel may be of help, but still I think that leviathan is better.

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I wish Archangel was just a little bit better or had Vigilance. My problem with it has always been that it's actually pretty bad in a lot of racing situations because oftentimes your opponent can just kill it on the counterattack.

I was actually looking at Stormtide Leviathan to steal some tech from Vintage. Akroma, Angel of Fury looks promising against the Uw/X decks, especially if you're on the red splash. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

I wish Archangel was just a little bit better or had Vigilance. My problem with it has always been that it's actually pretty bad in a lot of racing situations because oftentimes your opponent can just kill it on the counterattack.

I was actually looking at Stormtide Leviathan to steal some tech from Vintage. Akroma, Angel of Fury looks promising against the Uw/X decks, especially if you're on the red splash. Thoughts?

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If we're still on the "against Esperblade" conversation, I found that the Griselbrand/Iona is usually just the best thing you can do. Sometimes Elesh Norn still does work as a plague wind they need a removal spell for, and I had pretty excellent results with Grave Titan in the matchup, as it dodges Lilliana and still leaves 4+ power behind if he goes farming. Stormtide is an option I wouldn't go with for two reasons:

1) It dies to literally every removal spell Esper has, and is generally vulnerable (though less so recently as the current Blade flavor is UWR, and they only have swords).
2) Blazing Archon does this thing's job while also being super relevant against Sneak and Show.

Inkwell was okay, but felt kind of underwhelming really. Akroma is a thing in the UWR meta, I suppose, but without lifelink it might actually be possible for them to race her more often than I'm comfortable with. She's basically a more vulnerable Inkwell that doesn't pitch to force and can actually be removed (double bolt), so in that regard I'd say run Inkwell if considering Akroma, Angel of Fury.

All this said, this assumes we can't Griselbrand for whatever reason, which is my go-to, followed by Iona on (usually white, black if I know their only out is Lilly). Elesh Norn can sometimes pick up the pieces in a drawn out game when they've burned their removal, as the wrath of their DRS/SFM/Geist/Truename/whatever they're running is a pretty solid way to tilt drawn out games back in our favor. Grave Titan, as a dude that's not immune but very resistant to Jace and STP, and IS fairly immune to Lilliana of the Veil, ranks around where Iona is, and I will often go for him over the nice angel lady if I'm playing blind. If I can't find and protect a Griselbrand for whatever reason, I don't mind finding and protecting him, since one attack and they're just incredibly far behind even if they manage to pull something. He whallops.


tl;dr - Silver bullet is Grislybacons.




In reference to the ballsy hand awhile above, I would've kept it. No risk, etc.

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Originally Posted by Worldslayer

If we're still on the "against Esperblade" conversation, I found that the Griselbrand/Iona is usually just the best thing you can do. Sometimes Elesh Norn still does work as a plague wind they need a removal spell for, and I had pretty excellent results with Grave Titan in the matchup, as it dodges Lilliana and still leaves 4+ power behind if he goes farming. Stormtide is an option I wouldn't go with for two reasons:

1) It dies to literally every removal spell Esper has, and is generally vulnerable (though less so recently as the current Blade flavor is UWR, and they only have swords).
2) Blazing Archon does this thing's job while also being super relevant against Sneak and Show.

Inkwell was okay, but felt kind of underwhelming really. Akroma is a thing in the UWR meta, I suppose, but without lifelink it might actually be possible for them to race her more often than I'm comfortable with. She's basically a more vulnerable Inkwell that doesn't pitch to force and can actually be removed (double bolt), so in that regard I'd say run Inkwell if considering Akroma, Angel of Fury.

All this said, this assumes we can't Griselbrand for whatever reason, which is my go-to, followed by Iona on (usually white, black if I know their only out is Lilly). Elesh Norn can sometimes pick up the pieces in a drawn out game when they've burned their removal, as the wrath of their DRS/SFM/Geist/Truename/whatever they're running is a pretty solid way to tilt drawn out games back in our favor. Grave Titan, as a dude that's not immune but very resistant to Jace and STP, and IS fairly immune to Lilliana of the Veil, ranks around where Iona is, and I will often go for him over the nice angel lady if I'm playing blind. If I can't find and protect a Griselbrand for whatever reason, I don't mind finding and protecting him, since one attack and they're just incredibly far behind even if they manage to pull something. He whallops.


tl;dr - Silver bullet is Grislybacons.




In reference to the ballsy hand awhile above, I would've kept it. No risk, etc.

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Thanks! I've been really happy with Grave Titan too. Ever since I cut Tidespout for him, I've never looked back.

You like Iona in the matchup? My problem (against Esper) is that even on White, they still have the potential to get rid of her through Liliana or Jace.

Griselbrand is still my go-to guy in the UW/x Stoneblade matchup right now too - I was just musing about if there was a better silver bullet guy out there that they simply can't beat.

I don't think there is such a silver bullet because esperblade can attack creatures by too many angles: stp, jace, liliana, race them with batterskull...

The best thing is to go for griselbrand, protect him and then reanimate another creature to seal the deal.

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Esper3k

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I would have kept the hand, but I would have been more inclined to lead off with a Careful Study over the Brainstorm, since the risk of blanking on a mana source and forced into two dead draws is a game over, and while the shallower draw is rough, being able to pitch the junk you draw and still have a live draw (that would have been a land from the Brainstorm anyways) is stronger in my opinion. Maybe not stronger, but safer.

Against Stoneblade decks, depending on my hand and where we are in the game, I go to Elesh Norn fairly often to blank their board save for Batterskull itself, which can now be beaten in a fight. Again, this is only if I think I can get it to stick and expect to fight on at least one removal attempt with cards in my hand. Or if I feel their hand is weak on spot removal (from a previous Thoughtseize). Otherwise it is Griselbrand to battle/fill my hand/set me to bring out something else -or- Inkwell Leviathan to just try and race. But not if they already have out a Batterskull. Can't race that.

Regarding Stormtide Leviathan I like it as a better Blazing Archon, a full two turn faster better, but they're both dead to removal and puts the game right back where it was before once they're gone. But it isn't quite a better Empyrial Archangel because that shroud is huge for the role you're trying to fill with it. Which isn't to counter a Batterskull. All three bodies have fallen out of favor because putting out mostly uninteractive walls doesn't get you much these days. Better plans are to overpower with 7+ power and card advantage rather than a grindy Empyrial Archangel v. Batterskull fight.

Stormtide however doesn't stop emrakul, which is the main reason for archon in this deck (obviously in the side).

I was hoping someone might have some hot tech against Esper, but it looks like old Grizzly is still the best one there (not like I'm actually sad to have to get Griselbrand).

Interesting lines on leading with the Careful Study over the Brainstorm. I can understand the play there - I was just leading with BS to maximize my chances of seeing a land, but it did end up Brainstorm locking me out of the game. I ended up scooping after the Brainstorm to try and hide what particular flavor of combo I was.

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

I don't think there is such a silver bullet because esperblade can attack creatures by too many angles: stp, jace, liliana, race them with batterskull...

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I just remembered this nice girl against Esper: Sigarda, Host of Herons.
Has Shroud, they can't force you to sac stuff, evasion & is a 5/5.

Moving on to other silver bullet fatties, has anyone found a better anti-combo guy other than Iona or Jin-Gitaxias? Again, Griselbrand is great (because he's always awesome!) here, but I was curious if anyone had success with other guys. Ruric Thar maybe?

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Originally Posted by Darklingske

I just remembered this nice girl against Esper: Sigarda, Host of Herons.
Has Shroud, they can't force you to sac stuff, evasion & is a 5/5.

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Man, if only she has Vigilance too...!

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Originally Posted by kingtk3

Stormtide however doesn't stop emrakul, which is the main reason for archon in this deck (obviously in the side).

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Blazing Archon isn't an answer to Emrakul. Blazing Archon stops Emrakul sure, but it doesn't beat it, it instead sets you into a dangerous stalemate. We don't have answer's to a resolved Emrakul besides Tidespout +spell. And if everyone has dropped Tidespout, then you have no answer. Best case, you draw the game, worst case, they negate the Archon for even a single turn and you're dead.

So I don't think that's why it was run in the deck. It was used as a Zoo (rest it's soul) answer or a Thresh answer, before GeeBees came and made us an aggressive attack-y deck. Before that it was just a medley of bodies to answer archetypes that attacked once your opponent was out of the game.

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Originally Posted by PirateKing

Blazing Archon isn't an answer to Emrakul. Blazing Archon stops Emrakul sure, but it doesn't beat it, it instead sets you into a dangerous stalemate. We don't have answer's to a resolved Emrakul besides Tidespout +spell. And if everyone has dropped Tidespout, then you have no answer. Best case, you draw the game, worst case, they negate the Archon for even a single turn and you're dead.

So I don't think that's why it was run in the deck. It was used as a Zoo (rest it's soul) answer or a Thresh answer, before GeeBees came and made us an aggressive attack-y deck. Before that it was just a medley of bodies to answer archetypes that attacked once your opponent was out of the game.

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I used to run Angel of Despair / Ashen Rider for the Sneaky Show matchups but eventually decided it just wasn't necessary. 1) It's unlikely we'll have it in hand if they Show & Tell it, 2) They'll usually board out Show & Tell since it's pretty risky against us.

So the only time it would be really useful is if they have Emrakul out on the field through Show & Tell and we can Entomb up an answer (or again we somehow have it in hand to drop off of Show & Tell).

For me, I think it's just better to fight them the way we fight other combo decks, which is countermagic + hand disruption + (usually) faster combo turn.

I haven't gotten to live the dream yet where I Thoughtseize one of their Griselbrands and then get to Reanimate it, but one can dream!

Against creature decks, I prefer Sphinx of the Steel Wind over Blazing Archon. Really, it ended up being because of D&T for me. My problem with Archon against D&T is that they actually have a good density of fliers (especially with more Serra Avengers being played) and can actually conceivably block & kill it when you attack. Against Sphinx, their only real answer to it is StP or chump blocking it (which we're ok with anyways). Likewise, against RUG, a flipped Delver + Lightning Bolt can kill an Archon, but they're pretty much totally boned against Sphinx.