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You didn't build anything,
this version is old and has some issues mainly the death and taxes/maverick/miracle machups + as usual combo macthups, the side is garbage.
That's why you should play list with sylvan library+reb+toxic deluge.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=13347&iddeck=98039
Do you wanna give me a deck list? :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
I posted my list the page before post (226) before, give it a try.
I'd rather not splash red, so Guttural Response is better for my build. It gets Force of Will, which is the main thing we want to counter anyways.
I also like Sensei's Divining Top better than Sylvan Library. They're both bad in multiples, though.
//Artifact (13)
2 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle
3 Sensei's Divining Top
//Creature (7)
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage
//Instant (6)
4 Crop Rotation
2 Guttural Response
//Sorcery (10)
3 Into the North
1 Rite of Consumption
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Toxic Deluge
//Tribal Instant (3)
3 Not of This World
//Land (21)
4 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Thespian's Stage
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
guttural response is no way the power of reb or pyroblast countering things like show and tell/snapcaster/jace or killing delvers is what makes it playable.
I don't play maindeck reb only for fow obviously.
Copperline gorge (3-4 dollar) and mana confluence (8 dollar) are not expensive cards if it is because of budget reasons ; and don't play these tops and put sylvan library
You want to name top vs miracle and +20 life (swords) + sylvan library is a combo.
.
As for shizo death's storehouse I think there is no reason to play it, if you want evasion you just tutor for sejiri steppe ; though there might be some situtations (vs death and taxes where you could need it but that doesn't happen anymore with toxic deluge).
Also you need a playset of Urborg tomb.
You can also play City of Brass, which is a bit cheaper than Mana Confluence (and almost the same except for some technicalities), and Gemstone Mine (which has been mentioned before and is also cheap)Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
How did Innocent Blood worked for you, Adrieng?
adrieng, I'd really prefer a B/G only version. The Maelstrom Oulses are for Jaces and Counterbalances. Please help me improve upon it! :smile:
//Artifact (10)
2 Expedition Map
4 Lotus Petal
4 Pithing Needle
//Creature (7)
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage
//Enchantment (2)
2 Sylvan Library
//Instant (4)
4 Crop Rotation
//Sorcery (43)
34 Into the North
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Rite of Consumption
4 Sylvan Scrying
2 Toxic Deluge
//Tribal Instant (3)
3 Not of This World
//Land (21)
4 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
2 Snow-Covered Forest
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
I have just tested them on cocka ~15 2/3 match so I don't have a lot of testing with them but they have been ok ; didn't played against any sneak show ; they have killed some goyfs/TNN/shaman/delver/thalia etc ... Though bad against young pyromancer.Quote:
How did Innocent Blood worked for you, Adrieng?
Might go to a tornament this week end.
Playing 3cc spells without having acces to enough lands is bad, either plays more lands to avoid having spending spirit/petal to cast your pulse or don't play pulse/deluge. I'ld add at least 3 mora lands instead of guide and a fourth not of this world cause you don't have access to red to protect it for backup. Also play 4 map.Quote:
PhyrexianPossum
Yeah city of brass is cheaper than mana confluence but mana confluence is way better with urborg, tomb which is quite frequent to not lose some life's point tapping for black and also against rishadan port.Quote:
You can also play City of Brass, which is a bit cheaper than Mana Confluence
Hence the minor technicalities, but if you spell them out they become huge :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
Back from some tornament went to a disappointing 3-3 starting 3-0 ; beating 2-0 BWUdelver, 2-1 jundDepths, 2-0 patriot then losing 1-2 to omnishow then 1-2 to stoneblade (in game 3 had an active library with 35+life which get disenchanted eventually an other token get sworded and jace fatteselealed me) and 1-2 to omnishow.
What I know is that the innocent blood were terrible all day, I want my fourth library MVP card. Then what can I say I lost to omni-show maybe I have to rethink the side.
For sure I want the grudge the ratchet bomb and the bojuka bog, then some cards against combo. Don't know which ones are good enough for omni show/ant/reanimator/elf.
I think 'ill be playing the third toxic deluge main for sideboard space issues and a fourth reb maindeck.
Something like -3 innocent blood +1 library +1 reb + 1 toxic deluge and for the side -2 spirit -1 toxic deluge -2 cage -2 rest in peace +X cards ?
discard maybe ?
If combo is big in your area, pack discard main AND in your SB, but it will be a hard MU either way. It also won't work against Omnitell: we are way too slow. This is my favorite Protection package:Quote:
Originally Posted by adrieng
4 Thoughtseize
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Pithing Needle
+ some Extirpate a/o Duress in the SB
Right now I'm playing NotW over Seize. Currently I am trying my old favorite deck again, so I'm not really playtesting this deck right now.
JUnk depths inspired by Mr. Jeff Hoogland.
Creatures:13
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Dark confidant
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
Spells:22
4 Sword to plowshares
3 Exploration
2 Crop Rotation
2 life from the loam
3 Entomb
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Sylvan Library
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Ravens Crime
Lands:25
3 Verdant Catacomb
2 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Karakas
2 Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon canopy
2 Dark Depths
2 Thespian stage
1 Dryad arbor
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Swamp
Thoughts other than wastelands? Sideboard is also in the air either reanimation package(like Todd Anderson's Jund depths) or something cliche lol.
The name says it all: it's Junk oriented :smile: There is a MAJOR difference:
Lists here are more all-in, i.e. there is only one way to win and preferably as fast as possible.
The Junk Depths list has the resilience of traditional Junk-lists, and being able to 'combo out' with a Marit Lage as a alternative wincon. Of course, you can also argue that the creature beatdown is a alternative wincon. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would like to think lists here are more 'combo-like'. To me it feels like Junk Depths has no place in this threat. It is a good list though and I will test it myself in the near future, just because I like winning with Marit Lage :cool:
@Chatto:
Thank you for pointing me away from this thread. But i just feel as if this is was the best place to post it since i can't find a midrang-ish thread anywhere really.
I think that is because there is not really a thread for Junk Depths, at least not that I know about. Perhaps post in the Rock-thread? It could be they see it as a 'win more', I'm not sure. Or start your own thread :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by penmanship
hmm. maybe i shall haha, as thats the only option that i really have left lol.
Went 5-3-1 at scg. Top 64
Most of the matches were against bug witch is an auto win and 1 was jund and its the same.
Lost to
esper - this match is in my favor but i drew poorly
Dredge - this in my opinion is favorable but couldnt mulligan into a crop rotation or bog or a fast hand so i wiffed this.
Miracles - this match isnt favorable
Drew against
mono black- he had very amazing top decks which kept him in the game and if we had more time i would have been able to win g3. 2x pithing needles against me games 2 and 3.
My list is a few pages back. I play 2 into the north because 3 is too many. I cut the list to 2x entomb and 2x loam. These almost always were boarded out due to the grave hate coming in. 4 gemstones and 4 mana confluence and 4 moxes are my colores sources. 1 riftstone portal for against blood moon.
The deck averages t3 token with it happening often on t2 and with poor draws t4. There was 1 game i lost hecause i couldnt find depths. Dredged 3/4ths of the deck and never saw 1. So id say my build is very consistent.
The current bad matchups are
Painter stone
12 post
Miracles
Death n taxes
I cannot seem to find a common weakness here to expose but im thinking that the best answer may be to sideboard into a diff win con. Ive considered grindstone painter since it can be played through blood moon effects and can be recurred with academy ruins. Helm / rip might work better since 2-3 of yye above decks bring in rip which can help you.
Edit
After reading the matchup analysis found here I am thinking of finding a way to fit 1-2 maze of ith or a glacial chasm into the deck because sometimes you only lose to 1-2 threats that are undealt with.
My version seems like a stronger version because it can race and win vs many of the poor combo matches traditional lands faces. Additionally my version is not as weak to rip / grave removal.
It seems like the above mentioned matchups are just goung to be bad unless we can di something drastic with the sideboard.
2 into the north
2 entomb
2 life from the loam
4 gamble
4 crop rotation
2 mirri's guile
4 mox diamond
4 exploration
4 vampire hexmage
4 dark depths
4 thespian's stage
4 rishadan port
4 wasteland
4 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 gemstone mine
4 mana confluence
1 bojuka bog
1 karakas
1 sejiri steppe
1 riftstone portal
I'ld like to play death and taxes Toxic deluge+maze ftw/miracle all day they are good matchup with my current list.Quote:
The current bad matchups are
Painter stone
12 post
Miracles
Death n taxes
I mean in testing death and taxes is quite easy after side game one is a 50-50 but you are hugely favored after side with ancient grudge+ toxic deluge. Same thing for miracle I mean game one you have 4 sylvan library+ 4reb+4 vampire+4 needle to answer jace/top.
After side you bring 3 ancient grudge+4 ratchet bomb and you should be hugely favored, grudge on top resp to fetch obviously or EOT on top to avoid a terminus on the token.
Painter stone is hard game one but a bye after side.
12 Post is quite hard I agree, but winnable though.
Very bad matchups are omni show and ANT.
I have been testing a 6 one cc discard + one main and think it is a reasonnable choice.
Which combo did you face ? cause a turn three token is too slow to race omni-show/ant and (elves sometimes it'is ok).
My version does also allows turn two-three token.
Congrats!Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Your list has some elements I really wanted to incorporate, but didn't know how... It is a list I'm jealous of (in a good way though) and will test to a certain degree for myself. But, 32 land! And still pulling off a t2-3 token? Impressive. I was thinking about a one-of of both Glacial Chasm and Maze of Ith, but never thought about Port. Didn't it feel slow? Why did you choose Mirri's Guile instead of Sylvan Library? Because of cc-reasons? I like how you dropped almost all protection, but would myself go for less land and some sort of protection (probably Decay and Seize)Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
What is your SB looking like?
Regarding your bad MU's: I never had problems with Painter Stone, but that is because I maindecked Abrupt Decay. 12Post isn't that common in my meta (just one, but I have dodged that one for some time now) The other mentioned MU's are indeed hard
Again, congrats!
For those who like to see a blue based DD/ Stage-combo deck in action:
http://www.twitch.tv/scglive/b/554026374?t=14h39m25s
It starts at 14:54:50. It's a little bit slower than most decks here if you ask me, and I wouldn't call it Turbo Depths, but it's nice to see it in action.
Someone I know built it first and piloted it to a 16th place at the GP Paris this year. While I still want to have a BG-based deck he always tries to make me go Blue-based... Ow, the deck is called Farmville actually :smile:
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...-Or-Combo.html It is weird to hear them comment never heard about the deck, but then again: you don't this deck often (except here in the Netherlands)
http://archive.wizards.com/magic/mag...gppar14/day2#1