The current state of Magic

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Originally Posted by jmlima

LOLLLLLLLLLLLL. Oh, what a comedy show they are.

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Jesus, it's almost worth making a Tumblr account over this. Has nobody ever considered that they might have a better product if they just allocated the same amount (or more) resources to testing/balancing as they do to design?

Feels like competitive video games are a lot more careful about balance testing, and they have a much easier time rolling back if something isn't right. You can't really 'patch' a card once it's been printed. Functional errata are miserable, and bans are not only a giant admission of failure, they also piss off all the players that invested real time and money in a card/deck.

1.) Splinter Twin deemed too good for Modern.

2.) Test for Standard to safeguard Modern.

3.) Make Sahelli Copy Cat in Standard.

Doesn't take a Doomsday pilot to see how backwards this is.

Probably would take a doomsday pilot 15 minutes to come to the conclusion, though.

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Originally Posted by iatee

Probably would take a doomsday pilot 15 minutes to come to the conclusion, though.

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Yeah, because they need to stack 1), 2) and 3) into the right order /s

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Originally Posted by T-101

Modern legal supplementary sets has been the obvious choice since Modern's inception... but they just don't do it. It would make so much sense: get cards into Modern, cards that would benefit the format, without upsetting Standard.

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The problem is that if they make new non-Standard sets specifically for Modern, then if cards in it break the format, they can't rely on their usual "we develop for Standard" excuse. It also leads to additional confusion as to what's legal in it and what's not because there's more sets to keep track of.

Better would be to just have all cards printed in the new face be Modern legal (perhaps with an exception for judge promos). Then starting it with 8th Edition would actually help with easier recognition of what's legal (whereas by now the face doesn't help out AT ALL when determining legality), and you'd also get all the good answer cards into the format.

Obviously, this would require some extra bannings (luckily, Mox Diamond--the only Reserved List card ever printed in the new face--can be justified on power level), but it would solve a lot of the problems. Though it'd also send the format into complete chaos due to obsoleting a lot of decks...

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

Better would be to just have all cards printed in the new face be Modern legal (perhaps with an exception for judge promos). Then starting it with 8th Edition would actually help with easier recognition of what's legal (whereas by now the face doesn't help out AT ALL when determining legality), and you'd also get all the good answer cards into the format.

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It's been a staple that you can use old cards in tournaments as long as the newer version is also legal.

Just imagine how pissed people would be if they suddenly couldn't use their Onslaught fetches anymore due to a dumb policy change.

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Originally Posted by Barook

It's been a staple that you can use old cards in tournaments as long as the newer version is also legal.

Just imagine how pissed people would be if they suddenly couldn't use their Onslaught fetches anymore due to a dumb policy change.

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Lord Seth is suggesting all cards printed in the newer frames should be Modern legal. Nowhere has he suggested that only those cards should be legal.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

(luckily, Mox Diamond--the only Reserved List card ever printed in the new face--can be justified on power level), but it would solve a lot of the problems. Though it'd also send the format into complete chaos due to obsoleting a lot of decks...

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Phyrexian Negator.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

The problem is that if they make new non-Standard sets specifically for Modern, then if cards in it break the format, they can't rely on their usual "we develop for Standard" excuse. It also leads to additional confusion as to what's legal in it and what's not because there's more sets to keep track of.

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I understand the value of simplicity. That argument held a lot more water when they actively pushed Modern as one of their flagship formats.

But more recently, they've been pushing Modern away. It's not on the Pro Tour, GP Trials are no longer a thing, and they are launching all these promotions for Standard (but not a single one for Modern). Now if they don't want Modern to be a flagship anymore, for whatever reason, that's fine. The players will keep it alive if they want to.

But they maintain these "keep it simple and approachable" guidelines, while at the same time pushing the format away. If it's not their shiny new baby anymore, there's less reason to make sacrifices solely for simplicity's sake. Currently, when you see an old border card, and you're curious about it's legality, you just look it up, and find out it' usually in 8th or 9th. If Force got reprinted in MM4, or a supplemental "From the Vault: Make Modern Great Again", and someone rocks their Alliances Force, it wouldn't be a whole lot different. "Oh is that old card legal? I'll be damned, it WAS reprinted in [name of Modern reprint set]."

I feel like if people are into Modern these days, they are keenly aware of the legality rules. The Modern players could probably handle a supplemental set (or a Modern Masters set that introduced otherwise illegal cards). Maybe they test the waters with some "safer" cards, like Force of Will, and some of the Onslaught tribal guys. When that turns out to be fine, they could tinker around with some more powerful, but not necessarily broken stuff, like Hymn to Tourach, Predict, or Tendrils of Agony.

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Originally Posted by Barook

It's been a staple that you can use old cards in tournaments as long as the newer version is also legal.

Just imagine how pissed people would be if they suddenly couldn't use their Onslaught fetches anymore due to a dumb policy change.

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Huh? I don't know how you somehow got the idea that only the versions in the new face would be legal. I was suggesting that all cards printed in the new face at any point, with a possible exception for judge promos, would be legal. So for example, you could play Counterspell in Modern because it was printed in the new face, but it wouldn't have to be a new face Counterspell.

On the other hand...

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Phyrexian Negator.

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Huh, forgot about that one. I thought it was just Mox Diamond that caused the uproar. That does pose a problem, though I'm not sure if Phyrexian Negator would even be good in the format.

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Originally Posted by Lord Seth

Huh? I don't know how you somehow got the idea that only the versions in the new face would be legal. I was suggesting that all cards printed in the new face at any point, with a possible exception for judge promos, would be legal. So for example, you could play Counterspell in Modern because it was printed in the new face, but it wouldn't have to be a new face Counterspell.

On the other hand...

Huh, forgot about that one. I thought it was just Mox Diamond that caused the uproar. That does pose a problem, though I'm not sure if Phyrexian Negator would even be good in the format.

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Negator would almost certainly be unplayable. No Dark Ritual, and the format is infested with Lightning Bolt.

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Originally Posted by T-101

Negator would almost certainly be unplayable. No Dark Ritual, and the format is infested with Lightning Bolt.

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Dark Ritual would be legal, though, as it's been printed in the new card face, unless Wizards of the Coast decided to ban it (not unlikely).

That said, there are better things to Dark Ritual out anyway, and the 1- and 2-drops in the format will be big enough to cause considerable pain for the Phyrexian Negator's caster. So while it is a little problematic to have a Reserved List card legal, it's a card that would be very unlikely to see any play.

Watching the current MTGO Championship, I have to wonder if Standard implodes rather sooner than later. Considering the entire metagame is Twin combo, Mardu Vehicles and BG Aggro in roughly equal parts (according to tournament data) basically demands another round of bans next Monday, further shaking the format.

I also don't think that their overzealous focus on Standard is going to sell more packs. The overexposure to the format only gets people bored with it faster, not to mention it increases the speed the format is solved.

We're living in rather interesting (or boring, if you play Standard) times.

Seems like the best strategy for selling packs is to reprint non-rotating staples. Fetches/Thoughtseize were the most opened packs in recent memory right?

I have a hunch we'll prolly see bans in modern as well (if there are bans in standard, or bans at all), basically every requested reprint for the past 3 years (damnation, snap, lily, enemy fetches, cavern) plus Goyf and other reprints, it's pretty much easier to name staples they didn't reprint (Karn and Grove come to mind as the two big ones). If there was a ban tomorrow, there is a set ready to pump a bunch of fetches and staples into the market in case of a banning to replace whatever it is that is to be banned.

Likely just the paranoid conspiracy theorist in me tho, in fact, I am 90% sure that's the case.

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Originally Posted by Barook

Watching the current MTGO Championship, I have to wonder if Standard implodes rather sooner than later. Considering the entire metagame is Twin combo, Mardu Vehicles and BG Aggro in roughly equal parts (according to tournament data) basically demands another round of bans next Monday, further shaking the format.

I also don't think that their overzealous focus on Standard is going to sell more packs. The overexposure to the format only gets people bored with it faster, not to mention it increases the speed the format is solved.

We're living in rather interesting (or boring, if you play Standard) times.

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Looks like its time for WotC to do some firing.

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Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds

I have a hunch we'll prolly see bans in modern as well (if there are bans in standard, or bans at all), basically every requested reprint for the past 3 years (damnation, snap, lily, enemy fetches, cavern) plus Goyf and other reprints, it's pretty much easier to name staples they didn't reprint (Karn and Grove come to mind as the two big ones). If there was a ban tomorrow, there is a set ready to pump a bunch of fetches and staples into the market in case of a banning to replace whatever it is that is to be banned.

Likely just the paranoid conspiracy theorist in me tho, in fact, I am 90% sure that's the case.

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The change of the B&R schedule was merely a knee-jerk reaction to player attendance dropping like flies. It would be a mere coincidence if anything gets banned in Modern next week.

If WotC will ban some stuff AGAIN, the game is going full YuGiOh with the cycle of "print format warping stuff to sell packs, let the cards wreck the format for 8 weeks, ban the cards and promote the next format warping cards they'll print in the upcoming set"

I don't understand people playing standard. That is all. :)

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Originally Posted by s&s

I don't understand people playing standard. That is all. :)

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I'd rather play Commander at FNM, if I'm honest. That's why I have four decks complete, another three building, and I need to buy around $500 in cards for the seventh.

Or I can just buy Burn for Legacy. :)