Alright, I'll let it go :smile:, although I still feel like Bloodmoon and Solemnity are ruleswise treated differently here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
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Alright, I'll let it go :smile:, although I still feel like Bloodmoon and Solemnity are ruleswise treated differently here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
They are, because they are different types of abilities. While they look similar as written on a card, they are not in game rules fashion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
So, where Blood Moon is a type changing ability, this means it does not modify how something enters play, or more succinctly, it doesn't change how things would modify themselves entering play, it just changes things while they are in play. At the point of which Blood Moon removes the ability, it has already "done it's job."
Solemnity is a static ability, that changes the rules of the game, so if you'd put counters on something, you just can't.
While these things are confusing in plain English, they have concrete, non-interpretive meaning in game terms.
Think about it this way: you can stop the EFFECT of entering the battlefield with counters, but (generally) not the CAUSE, i.e. the card text.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingo
A card cannot have counters on it while it's in your hand. At some point, those counters have to be "put" or "placed" on it. How the card is going to enter the battlefield is determined as it's going from the stack to the field, basically.
That happens at the same time as it enters the battlefield, but it still has to happen. So, you have a CAUSE - the card has text telling you to put it onto the battlefield with counters - and an EFFECT - the counters getting placed or put on the card.
Other cards can mess with the EFFECT by prohibiting it or changing it. That's how Melira and Vizier work.
However, what about cards like Blood Moon? They don't address the EFFECT. They address the CAUSE, namely, the text on the card. But, by the time they affect the card text, the permanent is already entering the battlefield and experiencing the EFFECT of having counters on it.
This is NOT the way Rules talk about this issue, I do not think, but this is an intuitive way to understand why they work the way they do.
I'd be interested if we see a new WG Not-Stacks Stompy deck.
Solemnity
Elightened Tutor
Crop Rotation
Halls of Mist (lol)
Glacial Chasm
Knight of the Reliquary
Tornado
Ritual of Subdual
Energy Storm
Force Bubble
Elephant Grass
Crucible
Poryphory Nodes for good measure since Drop of Honey is priced out the whazzo.
New Mirror
Obviously a lot of it falls apart without the key card, but so does Enchantress. I think cards either in the board or tune the deck to what actually is useful.
And Tornado becomes 2G: Vindicate, which seems pretty cool.
Jace, Struggling Street PerformerQuote:
Originally Posted by Cire
Gideon, Financial Planner
Chandra, Pitmaster (assuming she smoulders)
Nissa, Mediocre Gardener
Liliana, Tattoo Artist
Man, I really like that. How about:Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore
4x Solemnity
4x Starfield of Nyx
4x Elephant Grass
1x Energy Storm
1x Tornado
3x Sylvan Library
2x Mirri's Guile
3x Crucible of Worlds
4x Enlightened Tutor
4x Crop Rotation
4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Orim's Chant
2x Realms Uncharted
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Dark Depths
2x Thespian's Stage
1x Glacial Chasm
1x Halls of Mist
2x Flagstones of Trokair
1x Forest
1x Plains
3x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
1x Riftstone Portal
(I just threw in the Chant and Uncharted because I had no idea what to put there.) Obviously, as currently built, it dies in a fire to fast combo since it's combo/prison, but maybe with a mix of GSZ, the new dude Crucible/Dryad Arbor/KotR and some hatebears that becomes a solvable problem? GSZ means you can Teeg game 1, and Tutor means you can throw in a few other pieces of combo hate MD at little cost. (hello singleton 3sphere?)
Maybe you could combine Solemnity with some cards with Vanishing? Lost Auramancers, and.. oh snap Reality Acid. I think Chronozoa might just draw the game if you cast it with Solemnity out, since it's an eternal loop of token creation.
Wouldn't this work better running a dual-engine with Replenish, so you could hard-lock (more or less) with Decree of Silence + Solemnity?Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
Since Solemnity is weak to Abrupt Decay, it's only a hardlock against certain decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss
Yeah my first brainstorm tried to include an enlightened tutor package, a GSZ package, a solemnity/glacial/DD/crop rotation, wasteland/cruclibe/new green crucible, accelaration . . . and yeah it's hard to fit everything in. :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
It shouldn't. It says "When the last counter is removed, sacrifice it". There are no counters to be removed, so you won't have to sacrifice it. You'll need an outlet to keep sacrificing Chronozoas so you'll end up with an infinite number of Chronozoas. No draw there, just a very likely victory.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
The new spoiled manland is pretty interesting, as it double as a sort of grave-hate. If the activation cost was :1: i would've tried it for sure. At :2: it seems a bit steep.
https://i.redd.it/dzf61h0avw4z.jpg
It's 2, exile a land from target graveyard: 3/4 until EOT
EDIT: nvm it's your graveyard, that's way worse.
unless you win on the spot replenish is not a good deck. AND even then its questionable, since its expensive, and requires cards in grave.Quote:
Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss
https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-conte...9-09-07-57.png
Seems like a possible player in Modern, but I don't think it's good enough for Legacy. Definitely a powerful card, though.
The vanishing cards can't trigger themselves, but they would activate once they died normally.
A graveyard deck based on enchantments wouldn't be terrible. The big grave hate now is DRS and surgical, not debilitating stuff like RIP.
Also, I don't think Crucible would be completely necessary. Just a nice combo with Dark Depths, and if you have Exploration/Wasteland then it helps on that angle too. Part of Crucible's charm in these decks is the combo with Smokestacks, which won't work here.
Something like Wheel of Sun and Moon could work to counteract Gurmag, Snapcaster, Storm as well as give you an out to recycle your combo pieces eventually. Plus act as the mana advancement for Serra's Sanctum or Nykthos.
OMG. Totally forgot about Sanctum and Nykthos. Yeah, those should totally be in there.
Driven to Despair in like, an Azban token deck deck is insane. Honestly if you just connect with 2 creatures it's still probably worth it. 3-4 and it's pretty much a win on the spot.
(Driven) 1G
Your dudes get trample and curiosity
(Despair) 1B
Your dudes get bad hypnotic specter and menace
It smacks of 'loose more' in the sense that it only helps you when you're already on the board. That said, it doesn't cost that much to cast and allows go-wide aggro decks to close the door pretty hard. I think you're looking more at stuff like affinity, elves or dredge than something like a grindy abzan value plan.Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
I see it as more of an Anthem/Equipment type thing. If you're already full of tokens, this makes them close out the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by rufus
http://i.imgur.com/pPkAN5t.png
I mean I know skullclamp can be broken much easier than with this . . . . but I really want to use skullclamp with this :tongue:
Right, the question is how often does Abzan tokens lose where it 'got full of tokens', but then failed to close out the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by morgan_coke
honestly, it doesn't take much to make the card usable. If you hit with the same guy twice (maybe a 1/1 flyer) it'll pay off as a 2-for-1 (or if you cast both halves the same turn and hit once.) Putting that next to Blossom or Lingering Souls could easily turn the card into a 4-for-1.
I think it's worth noting that it's combo disruption (discard) and resistant to discard so it has potential to be quite usable. It's not amazing disruption, but I know there have been many times where I'm swinging with 3 guys for like.. 3-4 damage in DGA or something and this card giving you something relevant to do seems ok.
Lastly, it combines really well with Collective Brutality since a T1 DRS, T2 Brutality + Mom pitching this, T3 swing for 2 discard two isn't bad. Not amazing, but in the same way Brutality is OK for fair games and ok for combo games, this card sits in between as a possibly relevant card.
My guess is probably not, but it's a pretty huge effect.
EDIT: It could be good in BUG Faeries,