No, it doesn't work on any legend, or else it could bounce itself as well. It only bounces legendary creatures. I checked a while back... it'd be too good any other way.
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No, it doesn't work on any legend, or else it could bounce itself as well. It only bounces legendary creatures. I checked a while back... it'd be too good any other way.
Ok i am wrong, so disregard what i said about landstill and stax.
I think it is fabulous that you all have made these good changes. I just wish I had owned Cataclysm earlier. It's pretty effective. On that note, I don't know one way or the other about Leyline, but I think that the deck should have a really good enchantment just to try to maximize Cataclysm.
Also, I essentially stole the direction of Phaerlim's list and tweaked it to my liking. I have a bunch of ideas on fetchlands.
I have removed all of my fetchlands. I highly recommend that to all of you if you have gone without the Top. It is monowhite, after all. I took all the Grunts out of the main, as they are too unstable without fetchies. And Cataclysm doesn't want you thinning out the deck of lands. Finally, with Tarmogoyf so popular, I don't want to put anything in my graveyard if I don't have to. So the deck now has almost no graveyard dependence at all.
We have to get Petri to update the main page.
Umm the reliance on the graveyard makes the deck stronger. Sensei's top is great all the time, I always have mana to use it because of vials. Jotun grunt is a great card so why would you want to get rid of it. It hates on tarmogoyf hard so you can safely use fetches which are great for shuffling with tops and thinning your deck. Also not running fetches wont realy hurt decks that utilize tarmogoyf because they always play fetches of their own.
Next week I have a tournament coming up and I am thinking to bring the following list:
4 Serra Avenger
4 Silver Knight
4 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
4 Stonecloaker
2 True Believer
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Mangara of Corondor
4 Aether Vial
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Cataclysm
9 Plains
4 Karakas
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Rishadan Port
Side
4 Abolish
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Jotun Grunt
3 Tivadar of Thorn
Is it a decent list? The meta consists of quite a few goblins, a.f.a.i.k. almost no combo, a bit of ********, and a bit of angel stax, and of course the random factors.
Suggestions are welcome! I will write a detailed report afterwards.
Techno, I don't expect you to be familiar with me or the history of this deck, but I designed it with exactly those functions in mind. Somewhere in these pages, I am sure that I have said those same words you just did. So I agree with you.
But based one the success Phaelerim has been having, I went along with it and used his top-less framework. So IFF you aren't using the top, etc, etc.
Oh, and don't forget that in a pinch, you can have Stonecloakers bouncing themsleves to thin out graveyards, so every fetchland counts.
I think that running a full set of Cataclysms is almost necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by smoky squirrel
I would do
-1 Stonecloaker/Sotpc
+1 Cataclysm
and
-1 flagstones of trokair
+1 plains
I hope you do well, can't wait till the report.
Is Sacred Ground a SB slot wroth? It is an enchatnment, so it is good with Cataclysm!
It could be a problem when the goblin player waste your only after a Cataclym land and had also a vial out...
This deck top 4'd in Minnesota this weekend as well. It may have even won, I don't know.
I am altering the first post now to reflect all the new info.
Congrats on the top 4 Phaerim, I have one question, why do you run the singleton island? Wastelands presence in the metagame has dropped and you only run 7 blue spells. The island i think would hurt you some of the time because mangara and serra avenger both have WW in their cost.
Also did you consider running leyline, if you did what made you decide not to run it.
He can't play Serra Avenger 2nd turn, and any configuration of land will allow him to play Mangara 3rd turn. An Island will only hurt him when he wants to play Silver Knight, or if he gets stuck on 2 land.Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
...and even with the one island, that is still three less than the usual 4 Ports or Wastelands people use anyway.
There's a guy in my store who plays Ports AND Wastelands.
Phaerimm, did you play w/out Mangara? The deck in the Kadi thread doesn't have it on the list.
Game 2 I can see that Grunt can be pretty damaging, although they should fairly easily be able to play through it. Game 3, Samurai makes Bridge from Below inactive, but what's to stop them from Dread Returning a Golgari-Grave Troll and beating with that a lot? I'm curious as to how these games ended.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaerimmArchlord
I'm not seeing why this is so good for you. You've got Jotun Grunt, who on turn 3 can shuffle a couple dredgers or bridges in, and can hit another 4 of them on turn 4. After board you've got SotPC, who shuts down Bridge. Ichorid should be able to play through Grunt, especially if they lead with Putrid Imp or LED --> Deep Analysis. SotPC is more crippling, requiring them to win with Grave-Troll, but that's only post board. I don't see why this is such a good matchup for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaerimmArchlord
But still unfavorable. Your new list runs stifle and mage but thats about all you have and most combo decks can pilot around this or combo before you get the chance to use these.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhaerimmArchlord
I agrre that ichorid isnt a buy. Some of the new lists can go off turn 1 and 2. A single jotun grunt or samurai wont stop them if they combo off early. Its still favorable but its no way a by.
Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
I 100% agree with this statement. I mean sure being on the play makes the odds better, but you still only have access to Stifle and Meddling Mage. I'm not sure whether you're talking about slow combo ie. Solidarity, or fast combo, i.e Belcher, Si, TES etc. It seems however, that Meddling Mage will often times be too slow, even on the play sometimes. Belcher can generally either kill you between turns 1-2, or make an assload of Goblins on turn 1, which makes EE you're only out. I'm not trying to hate on your combo match-up, but I really don't think it's that great.
I kind of meant both. With fast combo they can simply race your hate. With solidarity mage is more effective but they can force it. Also if your trying to stifle their brain freeze chances are they have already drawn into enough cards for double or single force backup.
In my list i run chalice and orims chant. Against fast combo chalice has the power to shut down 12 cards in their deck, not just 4. Plus its harder to race since it comes down turn 1 for free. Also orim's chant is great against belcher and TES (and in some cases solidarity) because if you time it for a big acceleration or tutor they will have lost all those spells and have taken mana burn. This allows you time to stabilize with a number of cards in your deck.
Phealerimm, in my early builds, I used Minami, School at Water's Edge to mimic the Ranger effect. It was really good at digging me out of holes at the last minute, but today I would not use more than one of those types of untap cards. Q. Ranger is ultimately a weak card in a deck that is not predominently green.
Congratulations on your strong finish.
@Phaerim: If you are going to be running black then I would think confidant would be a great idea. I might test the black splash if i have time because its realy good with sensei's top and i own a playset of scrublands.
Edit: Black also gives us e plauge and dystopia for thresh.
I assume you speak of perish and not dystopia, cause running dystopia in a deck full of white permanent isn't good.Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
As far as i can see, a black spalsh would be here for duress, confidant and plague (and maybe cabal therapy). Maybe others spot removal spell like edict ?
Holo.
I don't think I would bother with Plague, as this deck has a spiffy Goblins matchup largely due to the Tivadar/Karakas/Vial/Silver Knight/Jitte assortment.
In fact, if you are splashing, you had better know what for. The question really should be "does this splash increase the combo matchup?" because that is really what you are shooting against. Another one to consider is "is this better than the Blue splash in this role?".
So I think that only blue and black are really splash options since white has better anti-combo than either green or red.
Also, in case you did not notice, one of the lists in the opening posts has Mana Tithe in the main, and Sphere of Resistence in the side. Is this going to cut it for a mono-white build? I think I like Mana Tithe in the main, but not in the sb. I would use Orim's Chant if I were to leave it in there. But Mana Tithe in the main is an interesting idea. Is Sphere of Resistence any good at stopping storm combo? It seems like it should be, but is it really? This leads me to my real question.
How good is Meddling Mage against today's combo decks? If there is not a clear card to name, it just seems subpar. In what ways, for example, is it better than True Believer? Stifle is good, but I don't think I would splash just for that.
I like black, because Confidant wins games. And I think Duress is the best 1-mana option for anti-combo. If you have blue, the best anti-combo cards need heavy blue.