.
Printable View
.
I agree of upping the Vial count to 4. I mean, the deck has so many tricks like vialing in Talon or Muscles for surprises and being able to leave countermagic open is great (if you still play counterspell). Plus after stuff like EE it allows you to rebound faster by digging with draw spells and vialing some stuff in. From my limited testing it has been great.
Agreed. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
I think with vial you want some counterspells. With mana open, you need to find some use for it.
I do think something stronger than Daze may be in order, I know Daze is the big tempo counter to suppliment force of will, but I must admit that I'm not fond of it past turn 2. Granted you may not always have the mana up for CSpell, but it's a better answer past the first few turns than Daze. Even Mana Leak is a better answer than Daze,....so Instead of just saying so maybe I'll go do some testing.
Edit: I run 4 Vial, btw. Usually being able to stop drawing the second with Portent or Brainstorm and then shuffle it away is sufficient, I've thought of going to 3 to prevent the double draws, but I usually like having it on turn 1 more than I fear the double Vial draw.
What about Winter Orb instead of Armageddon?
.
WOrb would be nice with Daze for two reasons. By bouncing lands you effectively untap two per turn. By crippling their mana, Daze's 1 mana stays effective into the late game as long as WOrb survives. Only "problem" with WOrb is you can't slip it into play with Aether Vial. :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
After 200 some-odd posts, you guys are agreeing on Aether Vial? wtf?
Anyway,
So now your Pithing Needles are weakened since vial is one of your primary targets. Goblins is still a good matchup though, right. OK, np. But I think you could stand to cut it entirely now. With Vial, Wasteland becomes much less of a hassle, and that is certainly another big target. Yeah, I think Stifle is your boy now. It still hits pernicious Deed, and doesn't hose your EE when you need it in a pinch and are facing them.
Also, if you are going to have mana open more often, Counterspell may be an option again.
We actually conceded Aether Vial a while back, then Volt took it back out again. It's sort of a love/hate relationship. I will tell you, though, that when we originally ran 4 in the old list, it really sucked hard. That might be because we had less creatures in the old list than we do in the newer lists. Either way, it's preforming wonderfully recently, and that's all the convincing I needed. Still not sure about bumping them up to 4 though. Double Vial draws just suck in Slivers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Talon Sliver is back in the main as a 2-of in the latest list. I can guarantee you our Gobs matchup hasn't softened a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
A lot of the same reasoning has been running through my mind lately. I usually end up siding out Vials for Needles against Gobbos, because they don't have a lot of countermagic (outside of the occasional REB or something out of the board), so it's not as much of an issue. Either way though, Storm is on the rise, and Stifle is actually relevant against Storm, whereas Needle is not. Also, I like Stifle better against Deed, because when you Stifle a Deed they've already sacced it, whereas if you Needle a Deed it's only a matter of time before they just answer it and wipe your board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Also, I really miss Stifling a first turn Fetch. It's just so good. It's seriously like sex on the first date.
Eh, maybe. I don't really know what to cut, though. Possibly Dazes, but I actually really like Daze in the early game. I could see them becoming Counterspells, though. Another possibility is maindeck Spell Snares. That card is just so sexy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
Darn it Pinder, now I've got to work my Stifles back into the deck - thanks a lot :tongue:Quote:
Also, I really miss Stifling a first turn Fetch. It's just so good. It's seriously like sex on the first date.
Take it easy,
Jared
I dunno if this has been talked about much yet...But has countertop been tried at all in slivers? Seeing as how slivers has sort of a thresh type of cantrip base and all. For thresh it seems to work wonders. Maybe keep like two tops main and put a 3rd top SB and SB threeCounterbalance?
Sorry if this has been talked about already I havent been lurking the forums for some time now.
I've been testing the last Volt's list incluiding Aether Vial and Talon Sliver. Aether Vial has proven to be useful, but I'm wondering wich number of slivers you have to run to make it worthy.
I mean, Talon Sliver sounds good to me, but I'm thinking that putting Counterspell and Vial together is pretty sexy, while Talon can be left in the sideboard if necessary. I sometimes felt that Volt's list needed some more control elements. Spell Snare is, in my opinion, better in those list not running Vial.
Anyway, I'm curious about what to side out to bring Spell Snare in.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt
I will test this:
-2 Talon sliver
-1 Daze
+3 Counterspells
I'll keep the Talon Slivers in the SB.
By the way, 3 Aether Vial is the right choice.
Meh, Talon sliver seems good MB.
The card(as I've seen from personal experience) is amazing. It helps deal with thresh's critters(maybe not goyf) by stack blocking and surviving.
It gives an even greater edge vs gobbos(I hope this deck dies soon). It seems like that Talon sliver gives an edge in so many matchups. Can anyone give a negative to it?
Actually, with Goyf around, Talon Sliver seems so much better. Chump blocking Goyfs without losing any of your Slivers is great. The only negative against it would have to be its near un-usefulness against combo, since it's a 2cc 1/1 creature that doesn't add a significant clock by itself, and can't be pitched to FoW as a consolation.
I would say metagame would be the decision maker between having more counter magic vs talon sliver. Talon sliver is clearly going to be the right choice if you have a lot of aggro. If your facing a lot of combo in your area then I would suggest running the counterspells. My overall feel for the legacy environment has been that its heavy on aggro and aggro-control so that would make me say that if your unsure stick with talon. The only comment that I will add to that is that CRET Belcher is becoming more popular and it's deadly. Therefore, if a shift occurs towards that, more countermagic might be a better idea.
I dont know if this has been brought up as a SB card but, have any of you thought of using chalice in the Sb? I think that setting it at 0 would stop cret belcher for a short while and it also helps against EPIC storm. On that topic stifle does the job just as well though. So are people MB stifle or is it still a SB choice?
Well, I'm finally putting together the stuff to play this deck, and I just figured I should bring something up.
Standstill has been brought up here and there as a card for CounterSliver, but I never really saw a solid rebuttal as to why it should not be used. It seems like amazing draw, and it can help a lot in control matchups, which seem to be the problem for this deck. I'm going to start my list running Standstills over Portents, since it gives a ton of draw, takes advantage of the low landbase (if you don't have many lands, you'll draw more gas with generic card draw), and could allow us to survive mass removal, either by having the counters to stop it or by allowing us to keep Slivers in hand without slowing down much. Since we're running Aether Vial, we don't even have to slow down much in dropping threats.
Any thoughts?
trust me it doesn't work out that great... control decks will either be happy that you just did that or simply won't care...
If you are going to go that route (with slower power draw that is), you might wanna run ancestral visions (although I would usually not promote that card, cuz I think it is terrible).
When do you propose to play Standstill?