The Cure (Kavu Predator / False Cure)

"Something I'm testing now is to crack a fetch to see which cards have most of the copies on the bottom of the deck (or all copies on top), because after shuffling is really unlikely they will remain at that position, and on average might do Spoils less risky."-Dr Jones

Just so we get our subject strait. I know that I am looking at this comment when making my responses.

Perhaps I misunderstood something when boxibrown said the following.

"Dr. Jones isn't talking about stacking your deck he is simply saying that you need to choose a card with spoils of the vault that has two main characteristics. 1) the card should complete your combo with the cards in your hand. 2) the card should be one you haven't seen in the game yet there for has a high probability of being flipped for a low life loss from Spoils of the vault. I can assure you that Dr. Jones was in no way advocating cheating or stacking your deck in any fashion "-boxibrown

I interpretted that Boxibrown was defending the position stated by Dr Jones above. It is my opinion that boxibrown is either misrepresenting Dr Jones as his "Interpretation" does not seem consistent with what Dr Jones is saying, or that he does not understand probability as he is supporting an opinion which illustrates a lack of understanding when it comes to probability.

My apologies if you are misrepresenting the statements made by Dr Jones instead of misunderstanding how probability works.

I don't see this as a form of cheating unless the person in question is specifically shuffling in an attempt to stack your deck.

If you crack a fetch before a spoils and see 3 false curse on the bottom and you shuffle your library, there's a possibility they'll still be on the bottom or far enough out of reach that you'll kill yourself. There's also a possibility that you can shuffle and randomize your deck and have false cure be the first ard you flip. Conversely, It doesn't bother me if they look first because he has an equal chance of screwing himself and shuffling his cures that were near the top to the bottom of his library and kill himself on the spoils. Another reason his looking wouldn't bother me is that in a serious setting i'm not a slouch, i'm going to shuffle my opponents deck before i hand it back. If they can stack their deck in a way that they can predict my shuffling and rig their deck the way they want, hey good for them, they should be making money sharking poker games and not playing magic. Bottom line is, as long as the person is sufficiently shuffling and randomizing their deck, there is no harm (or gain, really) in them looking to see where the cards are in their deck before shuffling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrJones

This is my current test list. Only goldfishing so far, but looks promising:

4 [U] Bayou
1 [TSP] Forest (1)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs

4 [AL] Elvish Spirit Guide
4 [OD] Wild Mongrel
4 [PLC] Kavu Predator
4 [NE] Skyshroud Cutter
2 [VI] Quirion Ranger
3 [RAV] Dark Confidant

4 [TE] Lotus Petal
4 [ON] False Cure
3 [U] Berserk
4 [MM] Invigorate
4 [NE] Reverent Silence
3 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [MR] Spoils of the Vault
2 [TO] Strength of Lunacy

Strength of Lunacy offers protection against swords and fills the 2 missing slots for pump spells that made the deck 0.7 turns faster back when I played Might of Old Krosa. Spoils of the Vault looks like a cheaper Plunge into Darkness that works well with my stompy approach. Having only 3 berserks and 3 chalice make them a bit risky tutor targets, but I'll keep those numbers for now. The "advantage" of Spoils of the Vault is that it can be played while manascrewed to find the missing land (and I seem to take between 0 and 7 points of damage on average if I name a card that still has 4 copies left in the library).

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Here what i think:
I don't like spoils, especialy with chalice. When i goldfished your version it normaly got me a land for some lifes, Overgrown Tomb would do this to.
What is the advantage of Strenght of Lunacy compared to Vines of Wastwood? Vines of Wastwood can be played with every manasource in your deck, not strenght. And it needs the Wild Mongrel.
What is exactly the reaseon for Quirion Ranger?
Is Wild Mongrel really such a good card?

dj jones allready posted the reasons for all your answers in some prevoius posts

quirion ranger is for manafixing, and can provide you with a 2 turn-kill (getting BB with just one land for cure without ranger is impossible, and i end up having just one land quite a few times,......IMO it could be replaced with more lands since the 2nd turn kill with ranger happens extremely rarely)

wild mongrel, i did not want to use him first, until dr jones brought strength of lunacy for discussion, and now i absolutely love him, the can provide you with a 2nd turn kill as well, thought you would at least need a berserk and some pump spells for it, and he can take care of a early goyf without dying (another option here would be only putrid leech, which comes zo my mind, since i tried this one before)

strenght of lunacy vs. vines of vastewood: vines are stronger in a more explosive version of the deck, but are countered by chalice and are weaker in defense, since you lose your pumpspell to save your creature from being removed or killed
strenght of lunacy solves part of both problems, it can hinder the opponent to remove the enchanted creature or even save it with madness but manly from the most common removal swords to plowshares and path to exile if playing against zoo, otherwise strenght of lunacy is just a smaller permanent pumpspell that does not get countered by chalice

to spoils i have to say that nether i do like them, i am playing plunge into darkness in their place mainly because it does not get countered by chalice and because i do not have to name the cardi choose, i do not even need to show it, and with an avarage of 7 life i allmost allways find one of the possible kills, but depeding on my lifecount i can use more life as well

the only thing in my list that differs from the one above is that i am using ritual of consumtion instead of berserks, well because i do not own berseks jet, but even thought i have to say that rie is quite usefull on its own because you do not even need to attack to kill

hopefully i described everything you wanted to know, and hopefully i delivered dr. jones thoughts correctly^^ otherwise please correct what i have just written

Quirion Ranger is like a llanowar elf that has haste and untaps to give mana rather than the other way around. Allows you to play with less lands and more threats, untaps your beaters to stop the opponent from attacking you and protects against wasteland and other random cards in the meta such as Stasis or Innocent Blood. It's the best accelerator you can play in the deck.

On another news, Scars of Mirrodin will come with a card that looks awesome in this deck, and some others that could be useful, the candidates are:

Tainted Strike B

Instant
Target creature gets +1/+0 and gains infect until end of turn.
"Welcome to perfection"
-Sheoldred, Whispering One.

Example 2nd turn kills enabled by the black berserk:
1. 1st turn: quirion 2nd turn: invigorate, invigorate, tainted strike.
2. 1st turn: Wild mongrel 2nd turn: invigorate, discard hand, tainted strike.
3. 1st turn: Kavu Predator 2nd turn: invigorate, tainted strike.
4. 1st turn: Wild mongrel 2nd turn: land/ESG/petal, tainted strike, berserk (discard rest of hand).

Pros: costs 1, instant, useful on chump blockers, works nicely with mongrel and predator, invigorate and other lifegaining spells have no drawback.
Cons: not useful with false cure, cost 1 (bad with chalice), doesn't give trample, if it doesn't kill in one swoop, you need to draw another one.

Infiltration Lens 1

Artifact - Equipment
Whenever equipped creature becomes blocked by a creature, you may draw two cards.

Equip 1

A fixed skullclamp that makes useful the horrible creatures the deck is forced to pack. Its best friend is of course Wild Mongrel, and partial unblockability is always desirable in a deck with Berserk.

Pros: costs 1, reusable card draw, cheap to equip, stabilizes the deck, good sinergy with mongrel.
Cons: costs 1, doesn't help any of the routes of victory.

Livewire Lash 2

Artifact - Equipment
Equipped creature gets +2/+0 and gains "Whenever this creature becomes a target of a spell, this creature deals 2 damage to target creature or player."

Equip 2

This card seems as brutal as jitte. Note that if I cast invigorate or berserk on the equipped creature I get to trigger its ability, too!

Ratchet Bomb 2

Artifact

T: Put a charge counter on Ratchet Bomb.

T, Sacrifice Ratchet Bomb: Destroy each nonland permanent with converted mana cost equal to the number of charge counters on Ratchet Bomb.

This card gets rid of chalice of the void when no longer needed, offers protection against certain cards such as counterbalance or dreadnought, also breaks zoo, goblins and merfolks, and it's cost effective in a deck with very few lands.

Plague Stinger 1B

Creature - Insect Horror
Flying

Infect
It leaves its victims one sting closer to phyresis.
Illus. Ryan Pancoast #75/249 1/1

This one is worth testing, but I'm not sure how awesome it could be compared with the other ideas.

i love the idea of the black berserk, specially since it does not care how many lifepoints the opponent has, the other options are not that obvious choices for this deck, they are awesome cards but not directly made for this deck in my opinion

but i love the idea of lifewire lash together with shuko maybe as an alternativ kill, but it is just an idea and not more

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AggroSteve

but i love the idea of lifewire lash together with shuko maybe as an alternativ kill, but it is just an idea and not more

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Hehe, you've made the same mistake like me. My first thoght when I saw Lifewire Lash was: "Wow, a really cool 2-card combo with Nomads en-Kor!" But sadly Lifewire Lash only triggers with spells and not with abilities ...

I discovered that Tainted Strike can be used on an opponent's creature to "prevent" its combat damage for one turn. Cool! So far I like it a lot.

sorry but i do not understand how this should work, can you explain this to me?

It's easy. Let's say the opponent doesn't try to win with poison. Then, as long as you don't cast Tainted Strike on a creature that can go bigger than 8 power, you "prevent" its damage by turning its damage into poison counters that don't lower your life total. That play might buy you a turn to live!

oh, now i understand, if thats the case i do not like tainted strike anymore, since it would be our only way to deal damage as poison counters, so it is not that good as i expected, but i do like the infiltration lense, since it can give us the option to go to midgame, and actually it spells something like this "do not block and die now, if you block you will die anyway because i will combo with the two extra cards"

well its a bit exaggerated but i could see the lense to be the best choice of all the cards you have listed, but it is a bit slow because it does not pump our beaters, and for it to go online it will take a whole turn to make it spell what i have written above, but anyway i want a playset of lense, even if it would not fit the deck^^

I'm currently playing the following list:

4 bayou
4 verdant catacombs
2 Windswept heath
1 Forest
1 Swamp

4 Lotus petal
4 elvish spirit guide

4 kavu predator
4 dark confidant
4 putrid leech
2 Quirion ranger

4 false cure
4 reverent silence
4 skyshroud cutter
4 invigorate
3 berserk

3 chalice of the void
4 vines of wastwood

Why no Wild mongrel + strenght of lunacy?
Because these are cards, that need other specific cards and i wanted to minimize the number of this type of cards. The Leech is always 4/4, doesnt matter what you have in hand. And Vines don't need a mongrel to protect creatures from swords.
Why no Spoils of the Vault?
Because i killed myself several times with it! This card is random.

If you have something to say about the maindeck, say it, but i'm more searching about good sideboardcards.
What do you guys play against zoo and blue (aggro)-control(in all variation, countertop, NO-bant, supreme blue...)
How do you bring it in, what do you board out?

have anyone been testing infect creatures? Phyxerian Crusader is almost too good not to try out... it would need a slower version of the deck with more lands, but srly he dodges allmost every spot removal played in legacy, and he has a built in berserk. What about the white crusader ppl have been talking about a white version with swords... he should be pretty decent in that deck also.

has anyone considered using swords to plowshares or oust with the whole kavu/false cure set up?

i really dont see this deck running 3 collors, with so few lands, there would be a big risk of manascrewing.. there already is actually...
But i once tried playing a GW version with swords, it was pretty good but again i think it was because of the meta that was mostly zoo and goblins.

problem with swords is, swords make your aggromatchup better, but this is not the matchup you need to improve. Chalice(wich you cant play with swords) improve the combomatchup and isnt bad neiterh against aggro->mutch better
3 Colors are not a real problem.
This deck is not an infectdeck, infectcreatures+false cure are a stupid combo. You can play them, but the play infectstompy and not this deck.

A False Cure deck got 4th place on a recent legacy tournament. Here's the decklist:

//NAME: False Stompin
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Kavu Predator
4 Dark Confidant
3 Skyshroud Cutter
2 Tarmogoyf
3 Birds of Paradise
3 Reverent Silence
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Invigorate
4 False Cure
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Mental Misstep
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Nature's Claim
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 4 Duress
SB: 1 Loaming Shaman
SB: 2 Perish
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed

It was designed by a friend of mine that likes to play a slower version with more mana sources, but I agree with most choices in his list and I myself play with Mental Misstep and Green Sun Zenith. Green Sun Zenith doubles as mana acceleration and as a tutor for Kavu/Tarmogoyf, and Mental Misstep is a free timewalk, and the fact that this deck is unaffected by it makes it a strong choice for the current meta.

That looks like a real solid list, I thought that Tainted Strike is one of the faster kills, any reason why he didnt run it? How does your list differ? Is yours more steamline combo and faster games?

4 nonforest lands? rly?

intresting list, i would like to know if someone would have a tournament report

i am very curios which decks he had to face, and how he beat them