[Deck] The Rock - Adapted to Legacy

I can get through doing 20ish test runs in a couple hours. With 3 or 4 people, each of you should take a deck you know how to play and run tests yourselves based on the builds that you find on this site. I started a blue splash AS deck and have been doing tests that way, and I'm the only one doing them. Of course, this takes the ability to play a hand without bias knowing your opponents hand, but it's not impossible either. While people may not entirely believe your results because you obviously know how to pilot the rock better than the other deck, at least it's a start that gives you an idea on how you're doing.

The hardest deck is obviously solidarity, as playing that without practice... well, it's just not easy. I'd suggest saving it for last. On top of this, these results are better than random MWS ones that may not be using optimal builds (or at least the "accepted" builds).

I guess if you know that Solidarity is going to show up you could just load your board with Tsunamis and back it up with discard to get through their weak countermagic until you 'Geddon their board. That should hopefully buy you enough time to win the game through beatdown. BUT: I have yet to run into a Solidarity deck in my metagame. Period. I can't afford to design my deck to beat stuff that just isn't going to be there. As I said a few posts ago some of the people in my metagame find Goblin Charbelcher and other assorted... weirdness to be cool. I metagame against them and smash face.

@ Matchup percentages: All I know is this: I dont' test with incompetents. There's absolutely no point to doing that. I fear UGW Thresh much more than UGR because the white version plays Mystic Enforcer. That is a bad time for this deck if it resolves.

Majestyk: try a mesmeric fiend in the sb as a living wish fetch. I like it because it increases the amount of MD combo disruption, and it has served me well.

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Originally Posted by Majestyk1136

I guess if you know that Solidarity is going to show up you could just load your board with Tsunamis and back it up with discard to get through their weak countermagic until you 'Geddon their board. That should hopefully buy you enough time to win the game through beatdown. BUT: I have yet to run into a Solidarity deck in my metagame. Period. I can't afford to design my deck to beat stuff that just isn't going to be there. As I said a few posts ago some of the people in my metagame find Goblin Charbelcher and other assorted... weirdness to be cool. I metagame against them and smash face.

@ Matchup percentages: All I know is this: I dont' test with incompetents. There's absolutely no point to doing that. I fear UGW Thresh much more than UGR because the white version plays Mystic Enforcer. That is a bad time for this deck if it resolves.

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That's all I do. I know certain people are going to play certain decks, so I just adjust my MD/SB accordingly and then play. There's one guy in my area with Solidarity and says he doesn't like playing it that much. There's no Deadguy anymore, no Thresh really, and no Goblins. There's a U/W Landstill deck that's been making a comeback recently, me and another guy with Rifter, and another dude who plays an Enchantress deck with Trolls and pump spells like Rancor/Armadillo Cloak/Ancestral Mask. Aggro is kinda of creeping out the door in favor of Control decks that are more than capable of handling them.

I also don't test with idiots either. All my test partners have been competent players in their own right.

I just have to say that I find it a bit amusing that to my suggestion of testing by playing both decks yourself, your response is "I don't test against idiots." I know what you meant, but it was just amusing. I was by no means suggesting you test against idiots, just that there's no actual test results on this page, at all...

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Originally Posted by tivadar

I just have to say that I find it a bit amusing that to my suggestion of testing by playing both decks yourself, your response is "I don't test against idiots." I know what you meant, but it was just amusing. I was by no means suggesting you test against idiots, just that there's no actual test results on this page, at all...

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I know what you meant, and I'm sorry if it came off as irratable or rude, totally not my intention ;) That's how I test sometimes. I'll open the deck I'm working on in MWS and then set up another deck on my desk and play that way. It is hard though with decisions with the likes of Therapy (usually I just go by that sense I Duressed them, I would have known what was in their hand).

Then again, sometimes I've been known to make play mistakes against myself...really helps your morale.

I take it you guys will run 4x Ohran Viper as soon as you can get your hands on it.

That along with Wall of Blossoms and a couple of Dark Confidants or something and the rock could be a massive card advantage machine.

And let's not forget Birds of Paradise.

With UG creatures getting better and better, I don't know if Deed is still worth running in The Rock. Especially considering that a card like Jitte would serve a very similar function.

You have this green ophid, Dark Confidant, Hypnotic Spectar and many other insane creatures (Birds of Paradise, Withered Wretch etc.) all of which die to Deed.

Soon Rock will have to pass on 3 extraordinary card advantage creatures in Confidant, Viper and Hippe, just for the sake of one card advantage card (Deed). Is that trade off worth it, esp considering what Jitte could offer.

For a long time, a Rock deck without Spiritmonger was unimaginable, perhaps its Deeds turn to fade away as well turning Rock into something of a UG Aggro deck.

Sort of a hybrid of Zilla Stompy and Pikula Black. You get the disruption of Pikula (for combo) with the fat of Zilla.

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Originally Posted by SuckerPunch

I take it you guys will run 4x Ohran Viper as soon as you can get your hands on it.

That along with Wall of Blossoms and a couple of Dark Confidants or something and the rock could be a massive card advantage machine.

And let's not forget Birds of Paradise.

With UG creatures getting better and better, I don't know if Deed is still worth running in The Rock. Especially considering that a card like Jitte would serve a very similar function.

You have this green ophid, Dark Confidant, Hypnotic Spectar and many other insane creatures (Birds of Paradise, Withered Wretch etc.) all of which die to Deed.

Soon Rock will have to pass on 3 extraordinary card advantage creatures in Confidant, Viper and Hippe, just for the sake of one card advantage card (Deed). Is that trade off worth it, esp considering what Jitte could offer.

For a long time, a Rock deck without Spiritmonger was unimaginable, perhaps its Deeds turn to fade away as well turning Rock into something of a UG Aggro deck.

Sort of a hybrid of Zilla Stompy and Pikula Black. You get the disruption of Pikula (for combo) with the fat of Zilla.

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LAM played a deck with Confidant, Specter, and other fast mana and equipment together in an Extended aggro Rock. I can't say that I'd rather drop Deed to play any of those cards mentioned. The Greenphidian may be something I'd test, but the idea of dropping a component that let's me x/1 my opponent for creatures, enchantments, and artifacts for easily dealt with creatures doesn't thrill me. Deed is card advantage in spades.

All those cards you mentioned are dandy in a deck built for them (aggro Rock), but nothing I think The Rock needs to be revamped to include.

Edit: Also, what UG creatures are getting 'more awesome' that can't be handled with Deed, or any other piece of removal it runs for that matter?

There is absolutely zero justification for playing NOT playing Deed just so you can play Ohran Viper. Remember that this is a creature-based format. A 1/3 is pathetic in the grand scheme of things because he dies to EVERYTHING. So what if he may on occasion hit and kill one of Threshold's men. That's assuming that he hasn't been drilled by a Swords, Bolt or some other nasty piece of removal.

For card advantage we get to play with something infinitely more awesome: Eternal Witness. Regrowth With Legs has saved me far more frequently than just a random pluck from the top of my deck. This deck already plays something like 7 MD creatures that Cantrip. Ohran Viper would be extra baggage that is unnecessary. The current configuration of creatures deals with U/G thresh like a red-haired Stepchild.

EDIT: I got Mod Edited!!!

How can you assemble an enchantment with a creature??? Pernicious Deed simply isn't Orhpan Viper and Viper isn't Deed. They don't have the same ability. Period. Cardadvantage: Wall of Blossoms, Witness, Living Wish, Sakura-Tribe Elder (filtering your deck is cardadvantage too), ...

A few adjustments I made to my deck:
Alluren isn't a very good matchup. Duress, Cabal Therapy, Haunting Echoes and Cranial Extraction improve it, but sometimes it's not enough. Someone I know told me to side in Engineered Plague, naming 'beast'. That, of course, is gg for Rock. I've also added Urborg Shambler (or if you want it: Stronghold Taskmaster) as a wishtarget. The Shambler even improves the Pikulamatchup, removing Nantuko Shade and Dark Confidant and making Hypnotic Specter smaller.

Why not play the Viper and Deed together?... I'll be using this decklist when CS comes out...

4 Bayou
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Swamp
7 Forest
2 Volrath's Stronghold

4 Birds of Paradise
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Troll Ascetic
4 Eternal Witness
4 Ohran Viper
2 Ravenous Baloth

4 Duress
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Putrefy
4 Pernicious Deed

SB
1 Ravenous Baloth
4 Withered Wretch
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Haunting Echoes
4 Engineered Plague

In the build I posted a couple of pages back, I switched Hyppies for the Vipers... I wanted more creature kill and draw in the deck, and the Viper fit the bill... :D

The 3 drop slot is still loaded though... 20 cards... I'm not running into any problems with that, but I might in the future... Any suggestions on what to do about that?...

Decks with Chalice of the Void can be a problem. Chalice with 3 counters on it = gg, unless you have a good sideboard.

...yeah.... but who would actually do that? That statement really has no relevance at all, because it would never happen

Yeah, I haven't hit too many people wanting to set a Chalice at 3. I did it once on MWS just because I was bored and thought it would be funny. But that problem should never show itself all that much.

My very first build of the Rock contained a ton of 3cc creatures and spells. After some playtesting I realized that that spot was way too overloaded and that I needed to flesh the other cc's out. So now I have 14 3cc stuff and the deck now runs smoother. It was originally like 4 Deeds, 4 Witness, 4 Trolls, 4 Putrefy's, 4 Yavimaya Elder, etc. So you have to watch that, otherwise you'll never get the spells down that you need.

I've been testing a white splash lately:

Here is my current list:
land: 24
1 plains
2 swamp
3 forest
1 scrubland
4 bayou
4 savahanna
2 treetop Village
1 volrath's stronghold
3 windswepth heath
3 wooded foothills

2 swords to plowshare
2 putrefy
4 P. deeds
1 haunting echos
3 unearth
2 duress
4 cabal therapy
4 sakura tribe elder
4 wall of blossoms
4 eternal witness
3 troll ascetic
4 loxodon heirarchs
61 cards - can't figure out what to cut

I think most of the deck is self explanatory. I splashed white for hierarch as it is pretty much superior to R. baltoth other than the mana requirements.

First about my metagame:
It is actually usually Vintage not legacy, almost no one plays more than one or two restricted cards except a guy with power 9 that plays a combo deck that really isn't that good based on Earthcraft, infinite mana, and decking.
I think there will be a new person with a good GWr astral slide deck. I do tend to face much randomness and occasionally some combo deck that I’ve never seen. There is also one pretty good reanimator deck that is runs some things that are hard to kill. Sometimes a decent goblins deck.
No one really thinks about attacking my manabase (yet) once that starts I’ll have to run more basic lands.
After all that here is my sideboard was:
4 withered wretch
1 duress
2 null rod - all I have
2 putrefy
2 swords
2 pithing needle - all I have
1 demonic tutor*
1 vamp tutor*
* Obviously not legal in legacy.
I'll be playing Friday I'll probably be taking out P. needles and adding an extra haunting echoes and some stabilizers.
I played the slide deck the other day and it seems like I really need the graveyard removal or we will end up with a draw due to time limits. I might switch out the putrefies for mortifies.

Any suggestions
Thoughts on the white splash, suggestions problems.
I've tried the wish board before. I find it slow and don't really care for it.

Why only two maindeck swords to plowshares?
Isn't vindicate better than putrefy if you're playing white?
Why only 2 Duress?
If you're playing Volrath's Stronghold, why only one. The chances of drawing them are rather small.

Your deck gives a an impression of some cards that you simply took together in a few seconds, withouth paying attention about what they do. I'd try to change something it. Reread those 4 questions I stated.

We got promoted.

@ Arcanix: Without a way to reliably tutor for it why bother with the singleton Echoes? Seems awesome, but reaaaaaallly random. The Unearths and Duresses need to be flipped in number, as Duress is almost always a 1-for-1 with the added benefit of setting up devastating Therapies. Ditto for Hierarchs and Trolls. Turn 2 Troll against a lot of decks looks like a "GG" or it's at least going a long ways in that direction. Get those Treetop Villages out of there. What is this? Landstill? NO. NO. NO. No De-evolution of the deck plz.

As far as the Wishes go, it's only "slow" until you're facing down a threat or problem you're not equipped to deal with in the maindeck. Living Wish is basically a Demonic Tutor that answers the vast majority of the "Questions" that you may have to "Answer" from a random metagame.

The Rock (made by Alexander Van Ransbeeck)
Maindeck:
4x Bayou
2x Wooded Foothills
2x Bloodstained Mire
9x Forest
5x Swamp
22 lands

4x Birds of Paradise
4x Sakura-Tribe Elder
4x Wall of Blossoms
3x Eternal Witness
2x Troll Ascetic
3x Ravenous Baloth
18 creatures

3x Duress
3x Cabal Therapy
3x Living Wish
3x Putrefy
2x Haunting Echoes
4x Pernicious Deed
18 spells

Sideboard:
1x Dust Bowl
1x Withered Wretch
1x Viridian Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Bone Shredder
1x Troll Ascetic
1x Ravenous Baloth
1x Urborg Shambler
1x Genesis
3x Engineered Plague
3x Cranial Extraction

Motivations and card choices:
· Bloodstained Mire and Wooded Foothills: I made a split in the fetchlands, which enabled me to search both swamps and forests, or Bayou if necessary. They also filter your deck.
· Birds of Paradise and Sakura-Tribe Elder: Birds produces mana, Sakura filters your deck and is a good chumpblocker.
· Wall of Blossoms: Good blocker, card advantage.
· Eternal Witness: Regrowth with a pair of feet on it. Lets you take a card from the grave.
· Troll Ascetic: The Hardest-To-Kill-Creature-Ever. Most of the time, when this creature hits the table, it’s good game for you against a lot of decks.
· Ravenous Baloth: a 4/4 body for four mana, and it can gain you some precious life.
· Duress and Cabal Therapy: Disruption, I don’t think I need to say more about it.
· Living Wish: Because of the lack of good tutors in the legacyformat, I prefer using Living Wish.
· Putrefy: Kills the big guys, and the small guys as well. It helps you to get rid of those pesky artifacts like pithing needle.
· Haunting Echoes: Mostly ment to use against Threshold, it’s a house against combo and control as well. Untill now, the card has been awesome.
· Pernicious Deed: It was my first love, and it still is. BOOM! It wrecks weeniestrategies, but of course, it’s useless against a lot of combodecks.
· Dust Bowl: Clears the table of manlands and other nonbasic scum.
· Withered Wretch: Good against threshold, but also against some combodecks like Iggy-Pop, Reanimator, ...
· Viridian Shaman: It’s Oxidize with legs.
· Bone Shredder: People like to call it ‘The Flying Vag*na’. It destroys one of those creatures that bothers you.
· Urborg Shambler: Som people in my area play Alluren, and this card shuts it down. It’s also a good card against deck like Pikuka, because it kills Nantuko Shade and Dark Confidant.
· Genesis: This card is, in my opinion, better than Volrath’s Stronghold. Stronghold lets you lose a draw. Also, Genesis sometimes is a good wishtarget against Pikuka.

If your metagame consists of:
· A lot of affinity or staX, you should consider replacing Engineered Plague with Oxidize or Naturalize.
· A lot of Threshold, try replacing Putrefy with Diabolic Edict, but then you need to replace someting in your sideboard with Naturalize or Oxidize to get rid of Pithing Needle.
· A graveyard-heavy field, you could replace Duress with Withered Wretch.
· A lot of aggrodecks, you should consider playing Smother or Darkblast over Putrefy.
· A lot of combodecks, add an extra Duress, Cabal Therapy and Cranial Extraction. You might even want to consider Viridian Zealot.
· Lots of decks packed with enchantments or decks like Rifter, consider adding Naturalize and an extra Cranial Extraction.
· A lot of controldecks, you could replace Urborg Shambler with Boseiju, Who Shelters All. You might even consider Living Death.
· Goblins, goblins and goblins, replace one Forest with one Mountain and Urborg Shambler with Goblin Pyromancer. It’s a one-sided Wrath of God. I’ve won a lot of matches against Goblins because of the Pyromancer. You could also add an extra Engineered Plague.
· A lot of decks like Pikula or decks full of landdestruction, try Life From the Loam. Because of the dredging, you might even want to play Genesis maindeck.

I don’t have any testresults on paper, but here are some notes I took about how to play against the 6 decks to beat + a few other decks from my metagame:
· Solidarity: Game 1, you only have Duress and Cabal Therapy to count on in the early game. Most of the times, they will be able to counter someting, but at least you disrupted them a bit and they will go off later then normal. This way, you’ll have some more time to play your role of beatdownplayer. When you disrupted enough, IF you disrupted enough, Haunting Echoes can be played for the ultimate humiliation. You need to be lucky in this matchup.
Game 2 you side out Pernicious Deed and Putrefy and you bring in the Cranial Extractions and three random creatures. The matchup has become a bit better, but sometimes, they’re still faster. It’s important that when you know you’re playing against solidarity, you need to mulligan into at least 1 cheap disruptionspell and maybe an Eternal Witness. When you’re able to play Cranial Extraction, name High Tide first, since that’s the card they need to generate mana. When you’re able to play another one, name Cunning Wish, so they won’t be able to wish for High Tide. When your opponent didn’t scoop yet, and you’re able to play another (!) Cranial Extraction, simply name Brain Freeze.
· Rifter: This is a very good matchup, both in game 1 and after sideboarding. They don’t play any counterspells, so that saves you a lot of worries. Game 1 you simply play Duress and Cabal Therapy all the time. Try to make sure that Humility doesn’t hit the table and start attacking with all your creatures. When Humility hits the table, simply play your creatures like Wall of Blossoms, Birds of Paradise and Sakura-Tribe Elder and start attacking. Keep Troll Ascetic in your hand until Humility is destroyed! If you weren’t able do let your opponent discard his Humilities and when it has hit the table, your only way to get rid of it is Pernicious Deed. However, beware of Disenchant. If you aren’t able to let him discard his Disenchant, you need to wait with playing Pernicious Deed until you’re able to generate seven mana (three mana to play Deed, four mana to blow it up). It’s preferable that you also have a creature in your hand to play after you blew Pernicious Deed. The tokens made by Decree of Justice aren’t a problem either, because of Pernicious Deed. However, same as with Humility, keep one Pernicious Deed in your hand for in case they make a lot of tokens. The last card that actually can act as a problem (Lightning Rift isn’t a problem because of Ravenous Baloth and Pernicious Deed), is Eternal Dragon. However, you’re playing Putrefy to get rid of it when it gets problematic. Wishing for Withered Wretch isn’t a bad play either, espacially when Eternal Dragon is in the graveyard. Don’t forget Haunting echoes!!!
Game 2 you side out all Putrefies for Cranial Extraction and you might even consider siding out Wall of Blossoms for Engineered Plague to use against the decree tokens. This game, you start exactly the same way as during game 1: disrupting your opponent’s hand. Cranial Extraction makes this matchup even better. When you’re playing your first Extraction, name Humility (obviously), that way, the come-into-play-ability of Eternal Witness will work again and you can recur your Extractions. The second time, name Eternal Dragon, since it is a larger threat than Decree of Justice. The third time you’re playing Cranial Extraction, name Decree of Justice and swing with your creatures for the win.
· Pikula, a.k.a. B/W Disruption: Normally spoken, this should be a great matchup for you. However, it really depends on what they play on their first turn. A turn one Hypnotic Specter or Hymn to Tourach really is a pain in the ass. If you have Cabal Therapy in your hand, and you can start the game, naming Dark Ritual isn’t a bad play. When your opponent can start and he didn’t play a turn one Hyppie or Hymn, your best bet is naming Hymn to Tourach with Cabal Therapy. After that, you can name Hypnotic Specter. Sinkhole and Vindicate can be a problem when you don’t have enough land or manaproducers. Once you’ve played around those cards, Pernicious Deed sweeps the board, giving you a path to victory with your creatures. A quick Troll Ascetic can do a lot. They don’t like the creature, because it’s game-winning. If you want to get rid of Nantuko Shade and Dark Confidant, you can wish for Urborg Shambler.
Game 2, you don’t side anything out. The game goes the same way as during game 1.
· Goblins: Many people think this is an autowin. It isn’t! Sometimes, a goblinplayer is simply too fast for you. You can’t always keep up the speed at which they’re attacking you. However, if you can (not IF but if), you’re probably going to win. Your creatures are far better than theirs. Sakura-Tribe Elder is a good chumpblocker and gets you a land, Wall of Blossoms blocks Goblin Lackey, Troll Ascetic kills Goblin Piledriver, Ravenous Baloth is bigger than their goblins and can gain you some precious life. Pernicious Deed can be slow, but that really depends on the situation you’re in. Most of the times, it’s a nice sweeper against them.
Sometimes, the game depends on who wins the diceroll. If you win the diceroll, you’re lucky that you might have the chance of blocking a turn one Goblin Lackey. If you aren’t lucky and Lackey hits the table, you’ll have to race against a fast clock. Cabal Therapy can do wonders. If you can start and you don’t have a creature that can hit the table fast enough to block a potential Lackey, name Goblin Lackey with Therapy. Otherwise, name Goblin Warchief or Goblin Ringleader.
Game 2 you side out Duress for Engineered Plague. Your matchup becomes a lot better, knowing that you have some more removal for those goblins. However, you’re still playing against a fast deck and you still need to be able to draw the removal. I think this matchup is like 50/50.
· U/G/w Threshold: Threshold is a good matchup for you. I think the red version is generally better in a normal metagame, but weaker against the Rock. The white version is still a good matchup, but cards like Mystic Enforcer and Meddling Mage are a pain in the ass. However, you have several ways to get rid of them. First of all, you have disruption, which is better than their counterspells. Cabal Therapy is a way to get rid of Meddling Mage and Mystic Enforcer. Brainstorm could be a way to play around your handdisruption, but eventually, that doesn’t really matter. If Meddling Mage hits the table, you still have Putrefy to kill it. You can wish for Bone Shredder as well. Your only way to get rid of Mystic Enforcer (not counting Cabal Therapy), is Pernicious Deed. Make sure Pernicious Deed hits the table as soon as your opponent plays Mystic Enforcer, and blow it as soon as possible. The other creatures (Nimble Mongoose and Werebear) aren’t a very big problem. Wall of Blossoms is better than Nimble Mongoose, Ravenous Baloth is better than Werebear and you still have Putrefy to get rid of the teddybear.
If you want some other ways to stop your opponent from reaching threshold, you can wish for Withered Wretch. It’s only 2/2, so it’s vunerable, but it still puts a lot of pressure on your opponent.
The fanciest way to is to play Haunting Echoes. Don’t underestimate this card. It’s really awesome. You can disrupt your opponent until you can play Echoes, removing their counters and preferably some creatures too.
The last way to irritate your opponent, is wishing for Dust Bowl (preferably in the early game, when they don’t have any creatures yet) and destroying their lands. Oh, did I already said it rocks with Haunting Echoes? I’ve already won so many matches that way.
Game 2 you can side in Cranial Extraction. I’m still testing if it is fast enough to remove Meddling Mage and Mystic Enforcer. Meddling Mage would be the first target anyway.
I think there isn’t any thresholddeck that doesn’t side in Pithing Needle against the Rock, so be extra carefull. Some thresholddecks also side in Armageddon, which is a pain in the ass as well. Watch out for that, because it can really wreck you!
· U/G/r Threshold: This version of Threshold is way easier to beat than the white version. Nimble Mongoose and Werebear are easily dealt with, and Fledgling Dragon can be targetted with Putrefy. Their burnspells aren’t a big problem, because you have Ravenous Baloth to gain some life when needed. Against this version of Threshold, wishing for Dust Bowl is a good choice if you want to wreck their manabase. I wouldn’t wish for Withered Wretch unless it’s really necessary. Their burnspells can kill it easily, so you would have spoiled your Living Wish. The way to go against this version, is Haunting Echoes.
During the second game, you don’t sideboard. It isn’t necessary to use Cranial Extraction, since you can play around their spells easily.

The next two decks are decks that are played in my metagame, which consists of Threshold, Affinity and a few Allurendecks:
· Affinity: This has always been a good matchup for the Rock, but don’t underestimate it! Pernicious Deed wrecks the deck, but you need to be quick. Sometimes, it really depends on how fast you play Pernicious Deed. Whenever I’m playing against Affinity, I like to mulligan into at least one Pernicious Deed. An ideal hand against Affinity is two lands, one Birds of Paradise and one Pernicious Deed. The other three cards don’t really matter. Try playing Pernicious Deed and blow it as soon as possible. After that, start beating with your creatures for the win.
There are different versions of Affinity these days. Over here, people have cut Myr Enforcer (which is some sort of relief for me) for Dark Confidant to abuse it’s ability and gain some more cardadvantage. Also, most versions run Cabal Therapy, so watch out fot that!
People are still debating about the fact if Fling is better than Berserk. Well, to be honest, I think Fling is a bigger problem for the Rock. Why? Because sacrificing the creature is an additional cost, meaning it’s very hard to decide when you should respond on the sacrificing of their artifacts.
Sometimes, I’m able to wish for and use Dust Bowl. When you’re able to use it, it’s good game most of the times. However, I still prefer wishing for Viridian Shaman.
Game 2 I don’t sideboard, but they will. Watch out for Pithing Needle and even for Winter Orb. Some versions play that card, and when it hits the table, it’s hard to get rid of it. Still, this remains a very good matchup.
· Alluren: This is a very hard matchup, but certainly not unwinnable. Game 1 you have Duress and Cabal Therapy to disrupt your opponent’s hand and you have Haunting Echoes to finish the job. A second way to win, is by wishing for Urborg Shambler. That way, your opponent won’t be able to use the activated ability of Cavern Harpy. Only Man-o’-War can stop the creature. The third way to stop the combo from going, is by playing Pernicious Deed and blowing it in response of Cavern Harpy (meaning WHEN CARVERN HARPY IS STILL ON THE STACK). That way, you will get to destroy Alluren + a creature (most of the times, this will be Raven Familiar). This last method doesn’t work against a player who knows the rules about the stack, since he will try to avoid it for a while, but you can always try it.
Game 2 you side out 2x Pernicious Deed, all Putrefies and 1x Wall of Blossoms and you side in 3x Cranial Extraction and 3x Engineered Plague. You’re going to play the same way as during game 1: disruption. When you’re playing Cranial Extraction, name Alluren the first time. The second time, name the card that bothers you the most. It depends on which version your opponent is playing. There are two versions: the one with the infinite counterloop and the one with Living Wish that wins on Maggot Carrier.
When you’re playing Engineered Plague, name ‘beast’. They only have one way to stop the Plague: by countering it. Nobody will play Cabal Therapy on it, because of two reasons: either your opponent doesn’t know the rule about state based effects (rule 420) or he simply doesn’t expect it to be played against him. If Engineered Plague resolves, it’s good game for you.


Thanks for taking the time to read this. All comments or questions are welcome.
Alex

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Originally Posted by Majestyk1136

We got promoted.

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I know, it surprised me one morning when I was looking through the Open forum and saw The Rock in there. Still very cool.

How is the white splash treating everyone? I've noticed alot of people eschewing traditional G/B combinations for the splash, just to have StP and Hierarch (which I don't find to be all that more spectacular than Baloth, to be honest). Oh, and I guess Vindicate, but...I guess so, I don't know. Why would you need it? It pretty much hits exactly what Deeds hits, save for land, but I'd rather be pointing it at more important things.

I've been kinda tinkering around with my build recently, getting ready for Gencon. Today I came up with this on paper, though I have yet to test it at all:

4 Birds
4 Witness
3 WoB
3 Tribe Elder
4 Troll
3 Baloth

3 Duress
4 Therapy
4 Deed
2 Unearth
3 Smother
2 Putrefy

4 Bayou
5 Forests
4 Swamps
3 Foothills
2 Mires
2 Wasteland
1-2 Stronghold (I'm still debating this one)

I think that's everything I changed...-Looks at paper-...Yup..that's it. Kinda farting around with the SB still. Also, who all from this thread is going to Gencon and playing The Rock, I'd like to meet up with some of ya. PM and let me know.

Edit: Props to Alex for his huge detailed post. I was just about to get testing and post some results, and your post was very insightful.

@ Alex - Thanks for your response and some good questions. I don't get to playtest that much these days and the store that i used to play legacy at regular went out of business.

As for vindicate - likely better than putrefy, but I think i'd need to spread my self into white a bit more, which isn't that big of a deal. The biggest problem is that it is a sorcery.

As for Duress - Until my last revision I was at 3 duress and 3 Therapy, but when I added the Unearth's I added on more Therapy. My reasoning is that Saccing a creature would be less painful. There for the 2 for 1 possiblities would go up slightly.

One Volrath's strong hold is due to not wanting to may cards that don't produce colored mana.

2 swords - I didn't want to little maindeck artifact hate - mainly due to Needle.

Thanks for the long detailed post. It was nice to see decklist with good explainations and reasons for choices.

@ Majestyk1136
The single H. Echoes: one problem i have with the deck is trying to get it to 60 cards. There are so many good cards that fit. I often get ready to cut the Echoes then I draw it and it wins me a game. So I never manage to get it cut. This is my first decklist that doesn't contain V. tutor or D.tutor maindeck. (my metagame is actually Vintage, just with no good P9 decks). I would like to get two of them main.
I did go down one Tree top village, I was debating dropping them both. I will probably be changing some things up soon.
Like -2 TT Village. +1 forest, +1 V. Stonghold.

@ Anarky87
In some cases Heirarch isn't that much better than RBaloth, but I'm in a burn heavy meta game. Thus gaining the 4 life and leaving them a large creature for them to deal with is better than gaining 4 life and leaving them with just 4 more life to deal with.

Random thoughts:
Unearth - I really like it with very limited testing. It might be a win more card though. It has helped with with mana accelleration with elders. Recurring E. witnesses is great.

Anyone know off hand which day the Main Legacy event is at GenCon.

Is Vindicate being a sorcery a problem or is putrefy better as an instant

Arcanix