Wouldn't that make your Goyf be an itty-bitty?Quote:
Originally Posted by electrolyze
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Wouldn't that make your Goyf be an itty-bitty?Quote:
Originally Posted by electrolyze
Probably not since he just played 2 Thoughtseizes. Proactive disruption allows you to fill your opponent's yard for your Tarmogoyf while fueling Stalker with your own yard. Its almost as beautiful as Eva Green herself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
So, he'd be a 2/3 (2 card-types in opponent's yard)? That sounds itty-bitty to me.
Your opponent still has to play spells to get back in the game. I'm not sure how bad it is to have at least 7 power on the board with your opponent not having done anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
The Goyf is very strong in that Game, even if he is only 2/3 he makes the difference between a four turn clock and a three turn clock. That's the major importance on that I suppose...
why are you mumbling about a t2 2/3 goyf while there is a insane big stalker on the field. and when your oponent has gone rid of the stalker(what is very difficult because i seize 2x the removal) the goyf suddenly became big:laugh:
i just played the tourney with this but didnt do so good:frown: dont because of the deck but the mu's and my mana screw but here's a list from the mu's:
game 1
i played against some weird deck with salvagers with blue for counter.
i godd*mn lost this mu because of game 1 mana screw and game 2 everything was going smooth but after i dropped a hippie and discarded many stuff as usual i dindnt topdecked any other creature:mad: so he beated me with a factorie and a trinket mage.
normally this mu is great for me but with this bad luck probably not:p
game 2
br goblins
i easily won because of insane creatures with jitte and a plague.
game 3
enchantress
i won because of game 1 i destroyed al his lands with hymn and sinkhole and game 2 i get a t1 stalker and a t3 seal on elephant grass.
game 4
faerie stompy
i won because i getted game 1 2 stalkers and the next game luck with t1 hymn, hippie and he mulled to 6.
to this moment everything was going good and i only had to win next game so i could get into t8 because i could id game 6 for enough points.
game 5
4cthresh( uwgb )
this mu is not so good and he had increadibly lucky hands.
i get game 1 a t1 hippie wich isnt getting countered and he kicks for about 3 turns till he get an stp. i thought i was save now but he only discarded bunch of crap and getted al his gooses and confidant on the table.
game 2 i was very devastating but i stp'd al my threats and gets 3 gooses and 2 confidants.
i really hate this mu now.
game 6
i had to play a friend that traveled with me to the tourney, he played ichorid
this mu is almost an autoloss for me because when i getted leyline he could easily bounce it or ray of revelation it.
so i went 3-3 but i discovered eva green is increadibly strong and this is really my favorite deck now.
the only thing i'm gonna change is the sb because i dont like many thing from it,
-4 choke
+4 explosives
i really disliked choke, i didnt do anything good in the thresh mu because when i played it, he already had his threaths. and there i not much landstil in my meta so i changed it to explosives because there so much better against thresh and many other mu's like meathooks, aggro decks and some random stuff. my meta is full of this things.
-4 leyline
+4 extirpate
in the mu's leyline was good extirpate is almost even good, like ichorid can win easily with a leyline in the game, just bounce it. and the only mu its better then extirpate is aggroloam, wich is not so bad at all i think.
extirpate is so much better against threshold and many control decks because it simply cuts the deck from a keycard. against thresh nothing is as powerfull as waste on trop then extirpate it. in my meta this card does many things more then leyline.
over all i had a great day and i really, really like eva green.
ps, im sorry if my english is not that good because im not so good at typing in english.
i like smother in the main board, i run two of them. i found that it kill almost everything in legacy.
Actually, I like Smother because Onslaught uncommons are largely accessible. For only :1::b:, I get to destroy a creature of my choice at Instant-speed, as long as it has a converted mana cost of 3 or less. Plus, the creature can't be regenerated.Quote:
Originally Posted by hebrewhammer
Personally, I have to agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Isamaru
Sorry, nitewolf, I was afraid you wouldn't get a chance to respond before someone else did... so I had to speak on your behalf to voice this key argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by nitewolf9
I think nitewolf9's argumentation style is now a meme.
On a side note, does Smother + Snuff Out seem like too much creature removal for the MD?
What would you cut?
The only option seems to be Seal of Primordium.
At that point, I would rather just splash for Vindicate or run Pernicous Deed. Both cards deal with both creatures and artifacts/enchantments, and Vindicate has the added bonus of supplementing Wasteland and Sinkhole to mana screw your opponent.
Has anyone tried Deed?
The problem with it is that it's slower than dry wall (it eats up two turns).
But on the other hand, it's the exact opposite of a win more card.
It takes you from an unwinnable situation and gives you a nice reset switch to try all over again.
Seriously though, if you want more removal spells, I would take a look at the white splash...
http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showt...?t=9068&page=3
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4/3 Vindicate
2/3 Snuff Out
2 Swords to Plowshares
3 Nantuko Shade
4 Tombstalker
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Hypnotic Spectar
Has anyone here bothered to try that build out?
Maybehaps. It depends on the Metagame. Sometimes Seal is a important card, pre-emptively stopping threats before they happen, and creating a tempo swing. Vindicate is slower and generally tempo loss.
Snuff out is unbelievably good. The only other removal I would run is Shriekmaw since it also doubles as an evasive threat. Not to mention being really hard to counter with counterbalance.
I don't think you're using the term tempo correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by raharu
If anything Vindicate is the card that best allows for tempo swings.
It nukes your opponents last remaining land and makes it so that all the cards in their hand are dead. At the very least, it sets them behind by several turns. That the definition of gaining tempo.
Compare that to Seal.
You spend a whole turn to cast Seal out of worry that they will resolve a Counterbalance next turn.
So your opponent, seeing that you have the Seal, opts to use their turn to cast other cards instead.
In many cases, they didn't even have the Counterbalance in the first place.
So it's you who end up wasting a turn only to have no effect on the game or their play, and thus lost tempo.
Vindicate is fairly hard to counter with Counterbalance as well, as the decks that run Counterbalance run three 3cc cards total in the whole deck, if any at all.
Shriekmaw is way too mana intensive for this deck imho.
If it wasn't for Vindicate being bad, and in the wrong colors, I would agree with you.
Yeah, Vindicate is horrible. :laugh:
I have no idea why people keep losing to such a crappy card.
Destroy anything, be it Goyfs, Shackles, Counterbalances, Lands (in a deck with 8 land destruction spells to supplement it), hell even Planeswalkers.
God I wish Wizards would stop printing such crap rares.
Or they will wait to have UUU open for CounterBalance+Stifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
But with Eva Green packing LD+Discard, and 4 Choke in SB, it's hard for Thresh//TEC to achieve this.
Vindicate ?! Sure this card rocks, but most CounterTop-based decks are prepared for it with 3+ 3cc MD slots just in case (Predator, Shackles, Threads...).
Truly, Eva Green was the best SuiBuild around. Full sets of Shades'n Goyfs'n Stalkers ?! Woohoo !!
They're not "cool things", just the best mana-efficient threats around there...
...well, before Countryside Crusher and aggroLoam arised.
Nowadays, it's hard to match their average threat density//quality (5/5 Flying for 2-3 mana is great, 7/7 trample Lhurgoyfs or 9/9 pumping Giants are huge troubles -even if I agree Delving all your lands help shrinking Terravore and you still have SB Leylines).
Depending of your Meta, 4 removal spells may be not enought removal imho. Smother is great, but lack the tempo boost of SnuffOut and interfere with your gameplan.
If GoyfSligh and AggroLoam are rampants in your meta, dropping the seals or SB materials to find rooms for smothers is an idea. Swithching Eva Green for another deck could be a better one, though...
Good points. Fortunately though, aggroloam needs a decent bit of mana to get going.
That's what I love about Vindicate+Sinkhole+Wasteland, the fact that you can mana screw them long enough to win with your large beaters. And should that plan fail, Vindicate can still take out Crusher and save your butt (along with your 2 Swords and 3 Snuff Out). Seal isn't anywhere near as versatile or useful in that matchup.