[Deck] Turbo Depths

Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Spooky-

The only reasons that we have kept map so far are two-fold. First, It is a colorless land search, which means it helps us against blood moon and Back to basics, both of which are very common in our meta. Second, we played the brainstorm version for a bit and ended up not liking it. Part of the reason we didn't like it was that every time we had brainstorm, we just wished it was another land search. We decided that the pure redundancy is better than not having what we needed for the time being. We are still open to trying other things, but our thought process is simple, whatever we put in the deck in place of map has to be better than something that straight up search for whatever combo piece we need.

Sheizo was fine. I used it maybe once during my GPT and I'm not sure how many times y brother used it, I'll have to ask him. We use both Sheizo and step, with the idea that usually they serve different purposes. A 4th urborg might be good, I guess we have not tested it, but I would worry about having extras clog my hand due to legendary rules.

It was my understanding for a while that Death and Taxes was our worst possible match up. It's not too common in my area, and I don't believe very common overall compared to delver variants and the like. Because of this, I've decided to just strengthen my match ups against other decks and accept a loss to it. In order for me to be able to do anything against them I would have to spend way too many sideboard slots that could be going towards other more common match ups. Things like Dread of Night are great in the D&T match up, but not anywhere else.

Junk actually seems kind of a rough match up to me. They have discard to slow you down, and wasteland plus swords to stop the combo. They attack us from three different angles, and it seems like if they have an opener with wasteland, you really have to start worrying about the clock they are going to put on you. This is just my experience, though. I'd have to ask my brother how he felt during the matches, since I was not present for all of them.



My match ups during the GPT that I played in were as follows...
Eldrazi- 2-1
Infect- 2-1
Enchantress- 2-1
Burn- 2-1
U/R Delver- Intentional Loss to get us both into top 8 (won the fun games though)
Eldrazi- 2-1
Burn in the finals 2-0

As mentioned above, I've basically handed the death and taxes match up to the gravedigger. Just like how other deck need to accept that they will never win against storm and just move on, I don't know if we will ever have a good match up against death and taxes without decimating our sideboards for it. I do plan on testing the match up extensively either way, but as of now I'm just accepting it as a loss and moving to improve my chances against other decks.

Against delver and infect I have yet to lose in a competitive environment, but I can see how we would. I saw my brother lose to RUG delver at a local last week, and it actually looked rough. Delvers can block, they have you on a clock at all times, they run wasteland and stifle, and their counter magic prevents you from being fast. The match up does look frustrating.

You are correct with eldrazi, you really just need to race them, and hope to god that if they have wasteland they kept a slow hand for it, or you have the needle to answer it.

I've never had a problem with jund lands, but It might be because i'm too fast for them? Admittedly, I've only played the match up a couple times, but I don't think it's that big of an issue for us. I just had to know how to win Thespians Stage games with them for the most part.

Miracles is all about them running out of steam. You will make 2-3 marits that die, and you need to be able to keep going. Sometimes they keep an iffy hand that you can just play through with one NOTW, but that's not common. Just jam the combo and force them to have it, and then rebuild with the time they give you. Your board is where the match up swings to your favor. Pithing Needle, Decay, and Chalice make things much easier.

Into the North has been amazing. I would not play a 4th, as it can only grab one part of the combo, but the fact that it puts that part into play is just nuts. It has won me many games based on the speed alone, and its awesome when players neglect to counter it because they forget that Dark Depths is a snow land. It happens. Overall, though, the card is just great for the speed it gives us. It won me my eldrazi games for sure. Also, it's not like we are substituting any other tutors for it. We play the full rotations, scryings, and a couple maps all alongside it.

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Vs eldrazi, enchantress, burn, infect.. side in and side out?Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by caprino

Vs eldrazi, enchantress, burn, infect.. side in and side out?Thanks

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Don't know how other people feel about these board plans, but this is my current set up.

eldrazi
-1 Sejiri Step
-1 Sylvan Library
-2 Expedition Map
-1 Not of This World
-2 Duress
-----------------------------------
+3 Pithing Needle
+3 Abrupt Decay
+1 Maze of Ith

enchantress
-1 Sejiri Step
-2 Expedition Map
-4 Elvis spirit Guide
----------------------------------
+4 Chalice of the Void
+3 Abrupt Decay


burn
-4 Not of This World
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Sejiri Step
---------------------------------
+4 Chalice of the Void
+1 Maze of Ith
+1 Abrupt Decay / Surgical Extraction

infect
-2 Expedition Map
-1 Sylvan Library
-1 Sylvan Scrying
-2 Not of This World
-1 Elvish Spirit Guide
-------------------------------
+3 Abrupt Decay
+3 Pithing Needle
+1 Maze of Ith

Hi guys, a Modern player here. I really like Traverse the Ulvenwald and wonder if it could see play in here, thanks to fetches, Exploration Maps, Thoughtseize, Crop Rotation, etc. It tutors either Vampire Hexmage, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage/Vesuva, etc. with delirium for G. Has anyone even given it consideration? Why would it be bad?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drinkard

Hi guys, a Modern player here. I really like Traverse the Ulvenwald and wonder if it could see play in here, thanks to fetches, Exploration Maps, Thoughtseize, Crop Rotation, etc. It tutors either Vampire Hexmage, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage/Vesuva, etc. with delirium for G. Has anyone even given it consideration? Why would it be bad?

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The main idea behind this deck is to make a 20/20 as soon as possible, like, turns 1-3. I'm not sure it's even possible for us to have 4 types of card in our graveyards that early in the game. Its much better for us to just use a 2 mana search instead.

I'm trying out Thomas Hepp's BUG Depths list after playing RG Lands for most of a year at FNM Legacy at my LGS. The meta is Miracles and combo (Storm and Reanimator) so I figured a turbo depths build might do better.

I went 2-2 (beat Miracles, lost to OmniTell, beat a BW creature brew, lost to Dark Lands) and never felt out of any game, no matter how dire it seemed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hi everybody,
first i want to thank you apple713, adrieng and all of you for pushing this amazing deck!

I want to talk to you about a few things of your deck,
because I think we don´t touch it´s true potential so far.

I try to write down some of the key thinks we must discuss.

• Blue for Brainstorm // Or not

I myself don´t have any big success with the BS Version,
to be honest I stop testing after some matches because it was disappointing,
but we all know about the POWER of BS.
Especially because we run 8 Legendary Lands and some situational cards.

• Mox Diamond // Deathright Shaman // 0 Tempo cards

I start playing 0 Mox & 0 DRs in a 0 Fetchland Manabase.
Then i add the Fetchbase with Moxes and 1-3 Life from the Loam MB, with great results.
Yeahh I myself saw DRS as a bad joke. But after I start testing over 50 sample Hands,
I must agree that DRS is most of the times better.
Big advantages for Mox are T1 Sylvian Library or T1 Life from the Loam.
After this dream T1 Shaman is strict stronger!

• Fetchland Manabase vs the Rainbow base

I find with Sylvian Library we want the shuffel ability.
Also vs Blood Moon and in the long Miracle Matchups
the shuffel and deck thinning is really nice.

• Chalice of the Void // pro&contra

Some of you really like this card. I personally don´t like the idear of have 0 chance of playing my Needls/Discard/Maps.
Is Chalice really worth it?!

• Green Sun Zenith // does this card work

I start testing a bit with it in a list with DRS
Only other targets are Dryad Arbor and Sylvan Safekeeper
The Safekeeper really is an MVP card, but we must see GSZ
more as an 1-3 off to support like some Infect lists. We are not a GSZ Deck!

Posible other targets:
Knight of the Reliquary
The Gitrog Monster
Primeval Titan
Titania, Protector of Argoth

• Anti Combo Cards

What do you run and what is the best mix.
I run so far 5-6 Discard, 4 Crop/Bog MB, 3-4 DRS
& SB 2-3 Sphere, 1 Teeg (in the GSZ test)

and some mass removel but that i don´t count



I know most of this topics work not seperatet from the others,
but i want to list all of them. To make it cleare i come from an DDFT background
and see Depths as a deck with can make an t2-t4 token and win fast.
But has the ability to play the long game and grind out the save win.



That are my big topics when i test, overall i am really happy with my results so far.
I play the deck now over some month after Nougaro destroyed me with it online.
I only have Problems with GU 12-post with looks unwinnabel and combo is a 50%/50% matchup
depends on my version and the kind of combo deck.

But as i said in the topic i think we still don´t play the best version of the deck.

I am testing an eldrazi version of depth which solves miracle+combo+deathAnd Taxes matchups.

The ramp plan works wonder against deathTaxes/miracle and combo is answered by warpingWail/chalice/thought knot.
Warping Wail is the colorless reb.



4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dark Depths
3 Eye of Ugin

3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thought-Knot Seer

4 Thran Dynamo
4 Grim Monolith

3 Warping Wail
3 All Is Dust

3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Expedition Map

SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Wastes
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

I am testing an eldrazi version of depth which solves miracle+combo+deathAnd Taxes matchups.

The ramp plan works wonder against deathTaxes/miracle and combo is answered by warpingWail/chalice/thought knot.
Warping Wail is the colorless reb.



4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Maze of Ith
3 Dark Depths
3 Eye of Ugin

3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Thought-Knot Seer

4 Thran Dynamo
4 Grim Monolith

3 Warping Wail
3 All Is Dust

3 Vampire Hexmage
4 Expedition Map

SB: 1 Warping Wail
SB: 3 Spatial Contortion
SB: 1 Dark Depths
SB: 3 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Wastes
SB: 1 Vampire Hexmage
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth

---

You explain the choices you made in side.thanks

there is mostly two plan for side ;
either you want to go off with dark depth as soon as possible mostly against fast tempo(grixis delver/rug delver/URdelver)/infect/elf decks/combodecks where you should keep only one ulamaog and cut into thran dynamo
for spatail contorsion/WW so -3/4 thran dynamo -2 ulamog +3 spatial contorsion +1 WW + needle versus wasteland.deck/infect + cage -maze versus elf.

versus death and taxes you want to go to late game and kill with ulamog -4 cotv -2 map +3 contorsion +1 ww +2 needle

ant : +1 ww +1 vampire +1 depth +1 bog +3 cage -3 maze -2 all is dust -2 dynamo - 1 ulamog

versus miracle +3 needle +1 butcher +1 vampire - 3 ww -2 maze

versus eldrazi the 2 plan are possible stall with maze+kill ulamog or fast kill with depth -4 cotv +3 needle +1 vampire -3 all is dust +3 spatial contorsion -2 ww +1 depth +1 waste

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

there is mostly two plan for side ;
either you want to go off with dark depth as soon as possible mostly against fast tempo(grixis delver/rug delver/URdelver)/infect/elf decks/combodecks where you should keep only one ulamaog and cut into thran dynamo
for spatail contorsion/WW so -3/4 thran dynamo -2 ulamog +3 spatial contorsion +1 WW + needle versus wasteland.deck/infect + cage -maze versus elf.

versus death and taxes you want to go to late game and kill with ulamog -4 cotv -2 map +3 contorsion +1 ww +2 needle

ant : +1 ww +1 vampire +1 depth +1 bog +3 cage -3 maze -2 all is dust -2 dynamo - 1 ulamog

versus miracle +3 needle +1 butcher +1 vampire - 3 ww -2 maze

versus eldrazi the 2 plan are possible stall with maze+kill ulamog or fast kill with depth -4 cotv +3 needle +1 vampire -3 all is dust +3 spatial contorsion -2 ww +1 depth +1 waste

---

you are better off with this list or that of big Eldrazi?
versus death and taxes because -4 cotv?

Yeah I prefer the darkDepth version of bigEldrazi because most of the fast aggrodecks are better matchups.
I cut chalice versus deathandtaxes because they only have vial and sword @1 mother is just a vanilla 1/1 ; vial is casted turn 1 so i prefer needle to answer it.
And sword is not really a problem cause the plan is go for ulamog/destroy their board with all is dust and +10 life +20 life gives you lot of time.
I prefer answering their creatures either with maze and needle on vial/wasteland or with the colorless removals.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

Yeah I prefer the darkDepth version of bigEldrazi because most of the fast aggrodecks are better matchups.
I cut chalice versus deathandtaxes because they only have vial and sword @1 mother is just a vanilla 1/1 ; vial is casted turn 1 so i prefer needle to answer it.
And sword is not really a problem cause the plan is go for ulamog/destroy their board with all is dust and +10 life +20 life gives you lot of time.
I prefer answering their creatures either with maze and needle on vial/wasteland or with the colorless removals.

---

I'll try to test your list and let you know how it goes tests.
I summarize me that I did not clear side out and side in against Delver bug, bug shardelles, elf, burn, dredge, rug, Grixis Delver,infect. thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drinkard

Hi guys, a Modern player here. I really like Traverse the Ulvenwald and wonder if it could see play in here, thanks to fetches, Exploration Maps, Thoughtseize, Crop Rotation, etc. It tutors either Vampire Hexmage, Dark Depths, Thespian's Stage/Vesuva, etc. with delirium for G. Has anyone even given it consideration? Why would it be bad?

---

really you'd only have instant, sorcery, land in graveyard. I don't like exploration map and so getting that 4th type into grave would b a problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arcanis001

Hi everybody,
first i want to thank you apple713, adrieng and all of you for pushing this amazing deck!

I want to talk to you about a few things of your deck,
because I think we don´t touch it´s true potential so far.

I try to write down some of the key thinks we must discuss.

• Blue for Brainstorm // Or not

I myself don´t have any big success with the BS Version,
to be honest I stop testing after some matches because it was disappointing,
but we all know about the POWER of BS.
Especially because we run 8 Legendary Lands and some situational cards.

• Mox Diamond // Deathright Shaman // 0 Tempo cards

I start playing 0 Mox & 0 DRs in a 0 Fetchland Manabase.
Then i add the Fetchbase with Moxes and 1-3 Life from the Loam MB, with great results.
Yeahh I myself saw DRS as a bad joke. But after I start testing over 50 sample Hands,
I must agree that DRS is most of the times better.
Big advantages for Mox are T1 Sylvian Library or T1 Life from the Loam.
After this dream T1 Shaman is strict stronger!

• Fetchland Manabase vs the Rainbow base

I find with Sylvian Library we want the shuffel ability.
Also vs Blood Moon and in the long Miracle Matchups
the shuffel and deck thinning is really nice.

• Chalice of the Void // pro&contra

Some of you really like this card. I personally don´t like the idear of have 0 chance of playing my Needls/Discard/Maps.
Is Chalice really worth it?!

• Green Sun Zenith // does this card work

I start testing a bit with it in a list with DRS
Only other targets are Dryad Arbor and Sylvan Safekeeper
The Safekeeper really is an MVP card, but we must see GSZ
more as an 1-3 off to support like some Infect lists. We are not a GSZ Deck!

Posible other targets:
Knight of the Reliquary
The Gitrog Monster
Primeval Titan
Titania, Protector of Argoth

• Anti Combo Cards

What do you run and what is the best mix.
I run so far 5-6 Discard, 4 Crop/Bog MB, 3-4 DRS
& SB 2-3 Sphere, 1 Teeg (in the GSZ test)

and some mass removel but that i don´t count



I know most of this topics work not seperatet from the others,
but i want to list all of them. To make it cleare i come from an DDFT background
and see Depths as a deck with can make an t2-t4 token and win fast.
But has the ability to play the long game and grind out the save win.



That are my big topics when i test, overall i am really happy with my results so far.
I play the deck now over some month after Nougaro destroyed me with it online.
I only have Problems with GU 12-post with looks unwinnabel and combo is a 50%/50% matchup
depends on my version and the kind of combo deck.

But as i said in the topic i think we still don´t play the best version of the deck.

---

mox diamond vs drs - DRS gets killed easier, and isn't always available to produce mana. He is a good alternative to mox in my opinion. He's harder to play under blood moon and has summoning sickness.

manabase - i've mentioned that the main reason for a rainbowmana base was to avoid submerge which is less of a problem now days. So i'd recommend fetch lands which lead to a more stable manabase. If you are playing 4+ colors though, you'll need a rainbow manabase.

GSZ - playing GSZ leads to more of a maverick type list because you are required to include more creatures than the deck really needs. I've played versions with more creatures and alternate game plans such as ramping into titan and having eldrazi as a backup plan but since i started running chalice main deck, I have fewer issues.

If you want a breakdown of cards / card types to be included for the skeleton of a deck look in the primer. The information you want is under "Main Deck Construction Guideline"

Hey Sourcers,

I have a Mono-Black DD build that I brewed up and I'm looking for inputs. BL: I know these build isn't as ideal as the BG decks but due to budget reasons (no Bayous or VCs) thus I running this list. Note I typically play Merfolk (fully built), Burn (fully built), or Goblins (minus the land package). This is my first attempt at a combo deck. Here goes...

Suicide Depths

4x ThoughtSeize
2x IoK
2x Duress
4x Hymn
4x Gitaxian Probe (I like the cantrip capability and the information)

4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Hypnotic Specter

4x Mox Diamond (yep, just picked these up...flipped an old EDH deck for them)
3x Expedition Map
1x Lotus Petal

4x DD
4x Thespian's Stage
2x Waste Land
15x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Yixlid Jailer
2x Funeral Charm
1x IoK
2x Warping Wail
2x Relic of P
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Dismember
1x Hypnotic Specter
1x Aether Snap

The Side board isn't tuned by any stretch. But as you can see the deck runs a heavy discard package and leans on DC for the draw engine. Naturally, the consistancy isn't there with only the Exp Maps to fetch the pieces. Can any of you guys offer any cards that I should look at outside the mana package to splash G and go all in on the combo?

Finally, I have a pair of Jitte's I thought about jamming in the deck for fun😎

Thx in advance!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sigmanugary

Hey Sourcers,

I have a Mono-Black DD build that I brewed up and I'm looking for inputs. BL: I know these build isn't as ideal as the BG decks but due to budget reasons (no Bayous or VCs) thus I running this list. Note I typically play Merfolk (fully built), Burn (fully built), or Goblins (minus the land package). This is my first attempt at a combo deck. Here goes...

Suicide Depths

4x ThoughtSeize
2x IoK
2x Duress
4x Hymn
4x Gitaxian Probe (I like the cantrip capability and the information)

4x Dark Confidant
4x Vampire Hexmage
3x Hypnotic Specter

4x Mox Diamond (yep, just picked these up...flipped an old EDH deck for them)
3x Expedition Map
1x Lotus Petal

4x DD
4x Thespian's Stage
2x Waste Land
15x Swamp

Sideboard
2x Yixlid Jailer
2x Funeral Charm
1x IoK
2x Warping Wail
2x Relic of P
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Dismember
1x Hypnotic Specter
1x Aether Snap

The Side board isn't tuned by any stretch. But as you can see the deck runs a heavy discard package and leans on DC for the draw engine. Naturally, the consistancy isn't there with only the Exp Maps to fetch the pieces. Can any of you guys offer any cards that I should look at outside the mana package to splash G and go all in on the combo?

Finally, I have a pair of Jitte's I thought about jamming in the deck for fun😎

Thx in advance!

---

I'd lose the Hypnotic Specter, since there is no real reason to have them. Instead, play Grim Discovery. It can grab your combo pieces back from the graveyard for a second go, should you be disrupted. I would also like to stress the importance of Urborg, as it allows for turn 2 combos with a dark depths and a hexmage. I would play at least 3.

Beseech the Queen, Dark Ritual, Top, and even black removal like smother should be considered as well.

Yea, I assume that the hippies should probably go. I will certainly pick up some Grim Discoverys and give them a test. Beseech the Queen and Top also deserve a look. I'm sold on Urborg now and will pick up three certainly.

I know I didn't cover my meta and unfortunately I haven't played in a serious Legacy event since this past winter. But I expect to run into a typical mix of tier 1&2 decks at my next event ( I play in Europe (NL) and the scene is pretty solid).

Just made top 16 at a 1k today. 55 players and I got 14th place. I misplayed hard against merfolk which cost me my round one, and I also ended up facing death and taxes, which is just impossible to win... On the bright side, I won against belcher, which I have no business winning against. Chalice at 0 gets there! I used the same list as I posted before, for those curious.

Played the following list to a top2 split 21 player went 3-1-1 then top8 to the final.
I lost to turbo BR reanimator (turn one blood moon unexpected @g2 while I had turn two vampre+surgical back up)
then I beat death and taxes 2-1 thanks to not of this world, storm 2-0, miracle 2-0, then grixis in the quarter 2-0 then grixis with stifle in the semi 2-0.

I have cut into sylvan library because the decks are right now faster and faster and the plan against miracle is either surgical either chalice of the void.
I didn't test surgical before and it is really a good card agaisnt miracle.
I like probe+cabal+duress+BoP because you can see what is going on before comboing, the deck needs a plan against fast combo decks and I have decided to cut the pyroblast with treasurce cruise and DTT banned.
I think the ability with duress to take out a fow is better than kozilek you really need that crop to be successfully casted.


4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Mana Confluence
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe


4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Expedition Map

4 Pithing Needle

3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Abrupt Decay

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Not of This World
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
1 Marit Lage
1 Elemental

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

Played the following list to a top2 split 21 player went 3-1-1 then top8 to the final.
I lost to turbo BR reanimator (turn one blood moon unexpected @g2 while I had turn two vampre+surgical back up)
then I beat death and taxes 2-1 thanks to not of this world, storm 2-0, miracle 2-0, then grixis in the quarter 2-0 then grixis with stifle in the semi 2-0.

I have cut into sylvan library because the decks are right now faster and faster and the plan against miracle is either surgical either chalice of the void.
I didn't test surgical before and it is really a good card agaisnt miracle.
I like probe+cabal+duress+BoP because you can see what is going on before comboing, the deck needs a plan against fast combo decks and I have decided to cut the pyroblast with treasurce cruise and DTT banned.
I think the ability with duress to take out a fow is better than kozilek you really need that crop to be successfully casted.


4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Mana Confluence
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe


4 Sylvan Scrying
4 Crop Rotation
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Expedition Map

4 Pithing Needle

3 Gitaxian Probe
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Duress

2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Birds of Paradise
2 Abrupt Decay

SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Maze of Ith
SB: 2 Chalice of the Void
SB: 4 Not of This World
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
1 Marit Lage
1 Elemental

---

interesting list, explain to me the choice of two birds of paradise

It is mainly cabal therapy food and acceleration into turn 3 token.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by adrieng

It is mainly cabal therapy food and acceleration into turn 3 token.

---

Ok, Vs death and taxes and miracle side in and side out card?

miracle :
-4 crop -2 duress -2 cabal - 2map -1 scrying
+2 krip +2 chalice+3 surgical +3 not of this world +1 maze

death and taxes :
-4 duress -2 map -1 probe -1 scrying -1 crop
+2 kgrip +2 pyro +4 not of this world +1 maze

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by adrieng

miracle :
-4 crop -2 duress -2 cabal - 2map -1 scrying
+2 krip +2 chalice+3 surgical +3 not of this world +1 maze

death and taxes :
-4 duress -2 map -1 probe -1 scrying -1 crop
+2 kgrip +2 pyro +4 not of this world +1 maze

---

today 3 1
win vs miracle 2 0
win vs elf 2 1
lose vs ant 0 2
win vs bug 2 0

one question: why main deck no bayou?

adrieng:How are the tests with the list?

I always liked an eva-greenish or a more rock like approach to this Deck and i was wondering if someone is playing or toying with something similar.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vampire Hexmage

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to tourach
3 Living Wish
1 Maelstrom Pulse


4 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Senseis Divining Top

2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dark Dephts
1 Thespians Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

Sideboard is under construction. Would look like

1 Vampire Hexmage
1 dark dephts
1 Thespians Stage
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Reklamation Sage
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Duress
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Surgical Extraction

Hi Guys/Girls

long time reader / first time poster, just wanted to ask if its ok when i post my twitch channel.
Im streaming my build of this deck atm and regulary.

Im looking foward to discus this deck with you.

https://www.twitch.tv/vanudo12

Build:http://deckstats.net/deck-10247427-2...2aac4cbb4.html

Have a good one! =)

Edit: also recording the stream for replays, if someone is interested and mist it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tapedecky

Hi Guys/Girls

long time reader / first time poster, just wanted to ask if its ok when i post my twitch channel.
Im streaming my build of this deck atm and regulary.

Im looking foward to discus this deck with you.

https://www.twitch.tv/vanudo12

Build:http://deckstats.net/deck-10247427-2...2aac4cbb4.html

Have a good one! =)

Edit: also recording the stream for replays, if someone is interested and mist it.

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I'd certainly watch to see how you are doing with your version. Looked into streaming myself a while ago, but its a royal pain without a second monitor (which I don't have atm). Replays would be sweet too!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dalton!

I always liked an eva-greenish or a more rock like approach to this Deck and i was wondering if someone is playing or toying with something similar.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Vampire Hexmage

4 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to tourach
3 Living Wish
1 Maelstrom Pulse


4 Abrupt Decay
2 Crop Rotation

3 Liliana of the Veil

2 Senseis Divining Top

2 Bayou
2 Swamp
1 Forest
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Dark Dephts
1 Thespians Stage
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Windswept Heath
4 Wasteland

Sideboard is under construction. Would look like

1 Vampire Hexmage
1 dark dephts
1 Thespians Stage
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Reklamation Sage
2 Golgari Charm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Duress
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Surgical Extraction

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I helped a friend build a similar list. I like having a Wasteland, Shriekmaw, and Melira in the board. Living Wish is your trump card, so make sure you use it to its full potential.

Would you mind posting this list here?

Maybe a Volrath Stronghold can be included to loop the shriekmaw.

If i could mange i would even play a small package of Natural Order and Progenitus for another angle of surprise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Negator77'

I'd certainly watch to see how you are doing with your version. Looked into streaming myself a while ago, but its a royal pain without a second monitor (which I don't have atm). Replays would be sweet too!

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Last stream sadly wasnt recorded

Will stream at 19:00 CEST

Made 14th at another 1k (60 people). Same list as before, but I had Bog in the main, along with a needle (instead of library). I had 2 losses in the day, and both of them were to Death and Taxes. We just can't beat the deck. 3 people were playing it at the tournament (I counted) and I faced two of them in a row. some pretty bad luck. :/

I really like replacing Library. I haven't missed it yet. Not sure if Needle as a one-of is the right choice though. I had tried massacre in the sideboard for Death and Taxes, but it doesn't matter. The match up is just unwinnable (for the most part) and I don't think it's worth it to even waste sideboard space. I think the right play is to just have a better board for other match ups and concede to D&T. This makes me sad, because the deck is on the rise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Spooky-

Made 14th at another 1k (60 people). Same list as before, but I had Bog in the main, along with a needle (instead of library). I had 2 losses in the day, and both of them were to Death and Taxes. We just can't beat the deck. 3 people were playing it at the tournament (I counted) and I faced two of them in a row. some pretty bad luck. :/

I really like replacing Library. I haven't missed it yet. Not sure if Needle as a one-of is the right choice though. I had tried massacre in the sideboard for Death and Taxes, but it doesn't matter. The match up is just unwinnable (for the most part) and I don't think it's worth it to even waste sideboard space. I think the right play is to just have a better board for other match ups and concede to D&T. This makes me sad, because the deck is on the rise.

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It's a tough match-up, but far from unwinnable. I'm 13-12 against it now after beating it in modo league play tonight. It takes a lot (I literally bring in 10 cards against it), but it can be done. If I figure out how to record replays, I'll post some matches against it. If the cards in the board didn't have so many applications in various other match-ups, it may not be worth it... but they do imo.

Imperial Taxes, now that is closer to unwinnable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Negator77'

It's a tough match-up, but far from unwinnable. I'm 13-12 against it now after beating it in modo league play tonight. It takes a lot (I literally bring in 10 cards against it), but it can be done. If I figure out how to record replays, I'll post some matches against it. If the cards in the board didn't have so many applications in various other match-ups, it may not be worth it... but they do imo.

Imperial Taxes, now that is closer to unwinnable.

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Well I'm curious now, mind providing your board and plan?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Spooky-

Well I'm curious now, mind providing your board and plan?

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We obviously run different versions of the deck, but my plan is to find a small window to sneak through... so max out on needles and add the extra Ghost Quarter for sure. The Decays and Grips come in for Aether Vail + Flickerwisp nonsense and equipment (them gaining life is basically game over if they are aware that 20+ life and a sandbagged Karakas in hand is close to game over). Pithing Needles can name Karakas, Wasteland, Aether Vial, Port, Mangara, SFM, Mom, etc. Ghost Quarter is there for extra LD and the option to needle wasteland without shutting off your own ability to destroy karakas. Some # of Extractions can also come in mainly for Swords and Wasteland, but also check to see if the coast is clear in a pinch.

Generally....I board out Brainstorms, Mox's, 1 Gemstone Mine, and a Map. The Brainstorms are weaker against the taxing effects, the Mox's aren't going to accelerate you into a quick win very often and stink vs Revokers, and Map is also soft to Revoker.

In case anyone is interested, I got a feature match at the most recent 1k I attended. You can find video footage of me playing the deck in the link, as well as footage of every other feature match in the tournament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD5h9gVqb_0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by -Spooky-

In case anyone is interested, I got a feature match at the most recent 1k I attended. You can find video footage of me playing the deck in the link, as well as footage of every other feature match in the tournament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD5h9gVqb_0

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It's always fun to watch coverage when it happens for Depths decks. I enjoyed the casual turn two bog from hand blowout!

Hello I recently saw this deck and decided to play a G/B version much like Spooky.
Unfortunately I did make a few budget calls like 3 IoKs over Thoughtseizes and Polluted delta over Verdant Catacombs. However after playing a load of games on MTGO league I've found this deck has a chance against everything. There has been no matchup I've felt is super unwinnable except for Death and Taxes which is luckily unpopular online.
Does anyone have any idea what to replace the two expedition maps with? They never feel useful and are always sideboarded out. Perhaps just put two mode sideboard cards maindeck?

The Deck:

Creatures-
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage

Other Spells
4 Lotus Petal
2 Expedition Map
3 Into the North
4 Crop Rotation
3 Not of This World
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Pithing Needle


Lands
4 Polluted Delta
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog

SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Maze of Ith

I also wrote down the my winrate (games) vs all the decks I've faced if anyone is interested in seeing that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sprayquaza

Hello I recently saw this deck and decided to play a G/B version much like Spooky.
Unfortunately I did make a few budget calls like 3 IoKs over Thoughtseizes and Polluted delta over Verdant Catacombs. However after playing a load of games on MTGO league I've found this deck has a chance against everything. There has been no matchup I've felt is super unwinnable except for Death and Taxes which is luckily unpopular online.
Does anyone have any idea what to replace the two expedition maps with? They never feel useful and are always sideboarded out. Perhaps just put two mode sideboard cards maindeck?

The Deck:

Creatures-
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Vampire Hexmage

Other Spells
4 Lotus Petal
2 Expedition Map
3 Into the North
4 Crop Rotation
3 Not of This World
4 Sylvan Scrying
1 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Pithing Needle


Lands
4 Polluted Delta
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
2 Bayou
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Bojuka Bog

SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 4 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 1 Maze of Ith

I also wrote down the my winrate (games) vs all the decks I've faced if anyone is interested in seeing that.

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The Maps are the worst tutors in both versions that I've seen you try. I run 10 tutors (albeit with some dig in brainstorms) and the list you are trying runs 13. It certainly can't hurt to try 11, squeeze either some Decays or Needles into the main, and see how it goes. If you try that, I'd definitely add a Karakas to the SB since that is always card #15 or 16 for me online and always in the SB in paper.

Always interested in more data. Feel free to post your rates and experiences with whatever versions you test.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sprayquaza

Does anyone have any idea what to replace the two expedition maps with? They never feel useful and are always sideboarded out. Perhaps just put two mode sideboard cards maindeck?
.

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I know that the primer can be intimidating but seriously... read it. I've reposted the most relevant part to your question, but it sounds like you could benefit from a read through.


Main Deck Construction Guideline

Ultimately, this is what the stock shell currently looks like:

The basic skeleton is below and should be followed closely to maintain consistency.

Combo - 12 (4 Dark Depths 4 Thespian's Stage 4 Vampire Hexmage)
Tutors - 8 - 12 (4 Crop Rotation 4 Expedition Map 4 Sylvan Scrying)
Additional Draw - 5
Protection - 13 (Pithing Needle, Inquisition of Kozilek, Duress, Pyroblast, Ancient Stirrings, Exploration, Mox Diamond, Life from the Loam, Karakas)
Color Producing Lands - 14 (4 of which are Urborg and can be cut if not running black)
Utility lands - 0-4 (Sejiri Steppe, Wasteland, Maze of Ith, Ghost Quarter, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale)

The numbers can be +/- 1 maybe 2 but remember that the greater the deviation, the less consistency you will have with the deck.

8 -12 tutors provide a very consistent basis for assembling the combo very quickly. Recent Versions have been only been using 8 4Crop Rotation 4 Expedition Map with no reported loss of consistency. So, if you need to make room for other cards you can cut the number to 8 but I would not go less than that.

5 additional draw spells aid in consistency. Sylvan library has been the typical choice because it allows you to recover quickly in the event of swords to plowshares. Sensei's Divining Top works as well since it is not dependent on green mana. Usually a split between the two is appropriate.


2. Tutors

Crop Rotation: This is single handedly the best tutor for the deck. For the cost of 1 green mana you instantly get the missing combo piece or defensive card you are lacking. The land come into play untapped so it is essentially free.

Expedition Map: Although it is slightly more costly than sylvan scrying it allows you to search with colorless mana which is especially important under blood moon effects.

Sylvan Scrying: 1 mana less than expedition map but requires green, which is not commonly an issue.

Sylvan Library: The best draw spell for green. This card helps significantly over other cards like Mirri’s Guile because it allows you to translate life into cards in the event that Marit Lage gets Swords to Plowshares


If you dont find a card you excpect to be under a certain section, do a ctrl + find for it, its more than likely under a different section. Into the north is an example.

Into the North: This is great because it puts any snow covered land directly into play. While it does get Dark Depths, it does not compare to the versatility of sylvan scrying.




SO after reading all of that, you should be able to deduce that into the north is the least versatile tutor in your deck and in my opinion, it should be cut first. Expedition map is next on the chopping block because it is the most costly. HOWEVER, map is really good under moon effects so, if you have trouble with moon effects this is a great card to include, otherwise, not so much. Looking at your list, i would probably substitute some of your inefficient tutors for sylvan library. Alot of times, what you need is on top of your deck, and because you are a turbo version, you can use the extra cards immediately. Things like lotus petal, spirit guides and not of this world are all playable the turn you get them and can help in multiples.

-3 into the north +3 sylvan library
OR -2 expedition map -1 into the north +3 sylvan library

if I recall correctly libraries are expensive online so you may want to think about them when you draw expedition map / into the north and see if they would have been beneficial.
If there is information missing in the primer or that you would like added let me know. PM or post here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

SO after reading all of that, you should be able to deduce that into the north is the least versatile tutor in your deck and in my opinion, it should be cut first. Expedition map is next on the chopping block because it is the most costly. HOWEVER, map is really good under moon effects so, if you have trouble with moon effects this is a great card to include, otherwise, not so much. Looking at your list, i would probably substitute some of your inefficient tutors for sylvan library. Alot of times, what you need is on top of your deck, and because you are a turbo version, you can use the extra cards immediately. Things like lotus petal, spirit guides and not of this world are all playable the turn you get them and can help in multiples.

-3 into the north +3 sylvan library
OR -2 expedition map -1 into the north +3 sylvan library

if I recall correctly libraries are expensive online so you may want to think about them when you draw expedition map / into the north and see if they would have been beneficial.
If there is information missing in the primer or that you would like added let me know. PM or post here.

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I think part of the issue here is that the version he/she is currently running is pretty different from the primer lists. The list is much more speed based and closer to an all in deck. Like you pointed out, there are literally zero draw spells in the deck plus only 3 answers (Decays) to an on board Blood Moon, all of which are in the sideboard. The traditional upside of Expedition Map in finding a basic land is a lot smaller when there are a grand total of 3 B/G answers to a resolved Blood Moon. In a version running sylvan, some grips, decays, etc, Map can obviously be better. In this version, I think it is actually straight up worse than Into the North. ITN does exactly what this version is trying to do, accelerates into the kill asap. The more you add draw, filtering, more answers at the expense of top speed (closer to the primer lists)... the better map gets imo.

Sylvan Library ranges from .40 to about 2-3 depending on the version nowadays.. Price shouldn't be an issue if anyone wants to try it out there.