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My friend was trying it actually when he borrowed my deck. Said it was pretty good actually. If you really need a land, it can return fetches, and it makes Opt way better during the combo turn because you can cycle into something that you need. I think he played it as a 2'of.
Vacrix, what does your list look like? As far as Opt is concerned, isn't Visions of Beyond just plain better?
If you go for a green splash to run Hunting Pack, Tangle/Moment's Peace and Noxious revival, you plan on stalling the game (= netting you turns) to a point where you are favourable to go for the combo.
Early turn business cards can be cut for the green cards.
Noxious Revival is a bad card. is card disadvantage and requires you to cantrip/draw the actual revived card. And yes, Snapcaster Mage is disadvantage as well, but doesn't need an other spell to get you the card, plus it synergizes with your bounce spells during combo!
My advice is not to play it.
This is true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
This is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
If you recap any cantrip, you're left with the same amount of cards. If you recap Untap effects, you're left with more mana. How is it card disadvantage?
Unrelated note: Bought 2 Snapcasters! Yey! 1 (or 2) more to go.
Hi Scatman,
Grats on the Snapcasters! Hope they will serve you well.
On their own Mages are not giving you any card advantage. The actual snapped card will give it to you. But choose wisely, as you are saying yourself; Brainstorm/Opt/Impulse will not result into advantage.
My most flashbacked cards are; Meditate, Impulse, Snap and Reset. But as flexible as Solidarity is, every situation has it's solution.
// Lands
2 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
12 [P3] Island (1)
// Creatures
3 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
// Spells
4 [FE] High Tide (1)
4 [LG] Reset
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [VI] Impulse
1 [JU] Flash of Insight
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
2 [US] Turnabout
1 [SC] Brain Freeze
4 [TE] Meditate
4 [IN] Opt
2 [GP] Repeal
2 [UL] Snap
2 [JGC] Cunning Wish
1 [MR] Thirst for Knowledge
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Turnabout
SB: 1 [SC] Brain Freeze
SB: 3 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 [UL] Rebuild
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [MBS] Blue Sun's Zenith
SB: 1 [VI] Three Wishes
SB: 2 [PLC] Piracy Charm
MD -1 Three Wishes +1 Thirst for Knowledge (better pre-combo)
SB -1 Piracy Charm +1 Brain Freeze (safety if you tend to fizzle or after extractions)
I prefer Opt over VoB. Early game it's known that Opt is favourable due to it's dig.
Later on, VoB is clearly better but by that time, the fizzle rate is already that low so VoB turns into a win-more card. Many games I've found myself getting Opt during combo and I didn't need it to be a VoB.
It's nice to showboat an Ancestral Recall but I personally prefer to secure my position early game.
Just got back from being out of town. Man, lots to talk about here!
Pretty much my biggest question is, if you're using something like Thoughtscour to clear the deck after a Brainstorm or fill the 'yard for Visions of Beyond, what situations is Brain Freeze not just infinitely better? Or, rather, why would you want to have a dead card like Thoughtscour in your deck when you could just have a Brain Freeze and kill them? I'd rather play 4 Brain Freeze before a single Thoughtscour.
The only reason why I've been an advocate for Visions of Beyond is because I did extensive testing with it. There are, absolutely, a non-zero number of games that you will win over a given period of time with Ancestral Recall that you could not win with Opt. The deck does, in fact, fizzle. Quite often. It's part of the risk of running a deck with 22+ dead draws in a combo that relies entirely on drawing cards. In testing, it was almost 3:1 for games that I would have lost if I had Opt, rather than Visions of Beyond. That's not small peanuts.
As for the Brainfreeze them for ~5, Recall yourself, continue to go off, it happens very, very frequently. In a deck with tons of Snapcaster Mages and Visions of Beyond and Meditate, it's not unreasonable (and in fact, somewhat in your favor) to draw something off of those three cards that will let you win right on the spot. If the original Brain Freeze were for, say, 6 copies, then drawing just a single Snap will give you enough storm to win. It's a strong play when facing a wall of countermagic, or against decks that look to disrupt you with discard. Pure card advantage will win you those matchups.
It's also, more importantly, a way to turn the otherwise dead cards in your hand (Brain Freeze, Opt) into live draws that continue the combo. In theory, it's similar to the role that Thirst for Knowledge would provide, except that running more combo pieces gives you a more consistent deck in the long run, and running those actual pieces over fixers like TfK gives you fewer chances to mistakes in your strategic arc. There will absolutely be some games that you lose because you have too many Brain Freezes and not enough other stuff, but my gut tells me that you're going to lose more games off of a dead Thirst for Knowledge or Thoughtscour that would be wins if those cards were just a Brain Freeze.
All that said, I'm not opposed to looking at the number of Brain Freeze maindeck. The biggest reason to run multiples was against heavy counterspells or Counterbalance strategies, which are all things that can be helped to some extent just by running Snapcaster Mage. Now, if you try to go for the double freeze and they have counterspells for the Snapcaster Mage, that kind of sucks, but these also aren't decks that are seeing heavy play right now. Thirst for Knowledge could be a bit more versatile.
You can't compare Thought Scour to Brain Freeze.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor
But to answer your question; Thought Scour replenishes itsself. Still, it's a shit card.
I don't see a reason to run more Brain Freeze when you're facing UW/Esper Blade?Quote:
All that said, I'm not opposed to looking at the number of Brain Freeze maindeck. The biggest reason to run multiples was against heavy counterspells or Counterbalance strategies,...
Countertop is dead, at least in my meta.
People are replacing (or at least talking about replacing) the extra Brain Freeze with a Thought Scour or Thirst for Knowledge. That's the only reason why I'm comparing the two. My point remains; it doesn't make sense to me to replace a kill condition with a card that finds the kill condition, particularly when the kill condition isn't completely dead pre-combo (like a Tendrils of Agony is in more traditional storm combo). Brain Freeze will almost always turn on Visions of Beyond, whereas Thought Scour and Thirst for Knowledge only push the deck in that direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spigore
I recognize that the idea is not to rely on making Visions of Beyond into Ancestral Recall, but just to slowly fill your yard and use it to increase consistency in the late game. In this deck though, I've found that card's strength is not sitting in the graveyard waiting to be flashed back, simply because 95% of the time you're going to have a Meditate in the graveyard which will allow you to dig deeper. And this is with me playing a version that only has 3 Meditate main. Mana is almost never an issue at that point in the game, so I'd rather pay the extra mana to draw the extra card. Maybe that's not the correct play, though; I haven't sat down and thought it through too much yet.
Where Visions of Beyond has shone for me has been in the hands where you're holding Brain Freeze and Visions and maybe even a Brainstorm. Brain Freeze turns all of those moderate setup cards into incredible powerhouse draw spells, greatly increasing mid-combo consistency. Playing something like Thirst for Knowledge can help do that, too, but it's not as powerful as Brain Freeze and you can't use it as a kill condition. You're paying more for less of an effect, and you can't use it to beat your opponent.
And I realize I didn't say anything about Piracy Charm vs. Bounce. I don't dislike Piracy Charm. I think it's a really nice answer to some of the creatures that we have to answer. The sideboard is just super tight, so I prefer bounce to Piracy Charm since there are very few games where you can't just bounce the offender then go off in response to them replaying it. That often has the added bonus of having them use up a good number of their lands, which will make it more difficult for them to disrupt us. Now, in a build that's less focused on the SB wish plan (like yours, Seraphus), then you could have a little more SB room, but I'm not sure I'd even go to Piracy Charm before something like Hydroblast or Rebuild.
I do need to make a little room for the 4th Snap, so I'm going to test -1 Brain Freeze to see how often I want the extra Brain Freeze when it's not there.
This is almost exactly the list Markus Tumpach, a fellow Dortmund-area player , top8ed a huge tournament in Frankfurt with (http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/29374)Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue
Thoughts on this?
@HokusSchmokus:
It seems that there should be some difficulty on reaching landdrops without Impulse.
And is weird that the SB has 0 Ravenous Trap or Surgical, since they run 4 Cunning Wish.
What it seems though, is that it is a bit faster then normal lists, but should have at least 1 MD Brain Freeze.
Maybe will test it once reach 4 Snapcasters =]
Also, wouldn't Cackling Counterpart be better as another Snap, Commandeer as Misdirection, and anything be Wipe Away, so it can deal with MoM+Canonist?
In testing, reaching Landdrops was almost never an issue.I want to fit in some number of VoB, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Leylines in the board are obv. sub-par but a clear meta choice. And worked out against dredge in the top 8. I personally would run 3 Traps instead.
Also, I'm not quite fond of the Intuitions.
I have dropped the intuitions and three wishes for impulse (among other small tweaks, like second snap main over e truth, although I'll probably switch back. and the 4th mediatate to board for a flusterstorm). Sideboard is strange to me, but it worked so...Quote:
Originally Posted by HokusSchmokus
Impulse is just amazing at finding land pre-combo. I'm in love with thoughtscour + Brainstorm mid combo, although I'm considering replacing a number of them (but not all) for opt, as missing land drops is by far the largest reason for any of my losses past turn 3.
Intuition seemed subpar in my testing. Cute tricks with Snapcaster? Sure, but I'd rather just resolve meditate.
Also, I'm considering moving on high tide into the SB for more consistent turn 4's, for those who remember that. It is probably not necessary in this slower meta
Hi HokusSchmokus,
I'd swap the Leylines to Ravenous Trap. Obvious reasons. :smile:
I don't understand why people play Flusterstorm in Solidarity.. Its mediocre. Flusterstorm is good against us but when we play it, they can just tap a few islands for double mana and pay the 6-8 to throw us off. Mindbreak Trap is far better. Also, Pact of Negation is fantastic with Snapcaster. Against slower control, I usually try to get a hand with Snapcaster, Pact of Negation and Mindbreak Trap. If the Pact and Trap fail, you have Snapcaster into Pact for the 2nd time. Post-board I usually board in 3 Trap 2 Pact, keep one trap in the board for Cunning Wish. Also, many a time I've made a false attempt to go off in response to a Jace or something, High Tide, (counterspell), respond with Meditate, (counterspell), respond with Remand on Meditate (Force), Mindbreak Trap removing 3 countermagic and a Jace/Counterbalance/etc. You only lose High Tide/Meditate as you get to keep one with Remand, that or you just hold onto a Snapcaster and cast one of those from the graveyard. Flusterstorm can't counter Jace/Counterbalance. It comes up... often. I've played the matchup quite a lot.
Cackling Counterpart is an interesting Wish target. If it includes the Snapcaster trigger, which I can imagine is the only reason why anyone would play it, then you can even flashback it later in the game for a Brainfreeze kill? Dope sauce.
I don't understand why Cracking Counterpart is played over Echoing Truth. The latter performs the same trick and often better, not to mention being more versatile (antihate).
Varcix: Flusterstorm is useful before combo, and more castable during midgame combo (less than 6 lands). I doubt your scenario would come up often up. On the other hand, Pact of Negation seems very solid for the counter war. I am curious how do you board for the blue control matchups. You mentioned Pact, Trap and Remand in the scenario, and do you also keep in FOW? Those are a lot of slots.
Perhaps card advantage when you only have 1 Snapcaster to work with. Echoing Truth is better in any case where you have more than one though.
I take out FoW because its card disadvantage, and lately I've been boarding out Remand too actually cause I recently acquired a few Snapcasters IRL. Against slower control where you are going to deal with like 4 to 5 counterspells.. I like to sculpt a hand something like:
2 High Tide
1 Reset
1 Meditate
1 Snapcaster
1 Pact of Negation
1 Mindbreak Trap
This is the exact hand I went off with earlier today through 4 countermagic successfully. I'll post my list/how I board later this week cause I'm still trying to adjust to only having 2 Snapcasters IRL. :/ I'm trying to eventually get to a point where I can play 4.
If they try to counter only your drawspells, 4 counters get you, don't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
They let Tide+Tide+Reset resolve, and counter Meditate (#1). Then you Pact, and they Counter Meditate again (#2). You let all resolve (or not, if you have something good on the Graveyard), and Snapcaster, and they counter (#3). Then you Trap, and they counter (#4). That's 4 counters and you're gone. Have you played differently thant this, or have they? (if you had some lands, you could hold on to the 2nd Tide+Reset, so they attempt to counter them when Meditate is on the stack, right?)
Also, it's hard to pull the Pact->Snapcaster->Pact trick, because good players will counter the Spell they were initially going to counter with their 2nd Counterspell, and Pact will still be on the stack, and therefore not a target for Snapcaster.
I still think it's a very solid card, and would very much like to see your list.
I've played against quite a few Jaces, and in my experience he's largely irrelevant. If they've got a clock and are using Jace properly (Brainstorming every turn) then it can be a headache, but the way matches tend to play out for me is that they windmill slam Jace with no pressure and expect it to win the game on it's own, which is like a 6 turn clock. But as such, I don't usually feel any pressure to counter Jace. When they don't know what's in your hand, which is most of the time, it's pretty difficult for them to fateseal properly, and it's pretty easy to sculpt your hand as they're fatesealing you, anyway. And that being said, if they get to a point where they are casting Jace, you can usually just win with Jace on the stack and most of their mana tapped down.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
As for Flusterstorm stopping counterspells, it's definitely true that Mindbreak Trap is always a hard counter, whereas Flusterstorm isn't. What sold me on it is all the numerous times when I'd start to go off and get stopped by two spells from my opponent, never casting a third. Or, conversely, I'd get them to three spells and then they'd have a counterspell for the Mindbreak Trap, too. Flusterstorm is very difficult to counter, and in the situations where they are casting multiple counterspells, they tap out pretty quickly, usually while trying to counter your initial High Tide. But the thing that put it over the top for me is that it can counter a Duress or Hymn to Tourach, which is something that Mindbreak Trap can never do. In a sideboard that's already crammed, I'd rather have a card that can do all of that fairly well than 3 that do one spectacularly and 3 that do the other equally well.
That said, Pact of Negation is definitely an all-star in terms of protecting the combo. No card does more for less. If you need something strictly to protect the combo and have the spare sideboard slots, then it's a good call.
Against blue control, I would like to have 4 Flusterstorm and 4 Pact of Negation, the problem is obviously sideboard space.
What is the opinion on our cantrips beside 4 Brainstorm, 1cc (Thoughtscour, Opt) or 2cc (Impulse, Peer Through Depth)? I am on the 2cc side as their effects are obviously better, hence almost strictly better during the combo turn. Before the combo, you have time to cast 2 2cc cantrips, or up to 6 1cc ones. However, how often does one need to chain so many cantrips? 2cc cantrips are more easily disrupted, but we are fine with absorbing a Counterspell by a cantrip, aren't we?
Don't do this. Go off with the Brainstorm trigger form Jace on the stack. Is way funnier when their own card kills them.Quote:
Originally Posted by benthetenor