[Deck] Aggro Loam

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Originally Posted by Dissection

Is this the best option? Kind of awkward with Chalice.

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While I don't necessarily agree with the strategic choice, the interaction with Chalice is less of an issue than it seems. Not only are the odds in your favor, but resolving one usually negates the necessity of the other.

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Originally Posted by Pilhas

I find a bit strange since we usually have a good MU against delver.
Since maCHOOga said that the most problematic cards in the MU were the difficult-to-deal creatures I would expect a card targeted to them like Deluge/Pulse/Edict/Cut

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Agreed. But, to be fair, those difficult-to-deal with creatures are becoming increasingly difficult to deal with as they hide behind more and more Young Pyromancers. I can kill the Pyromancers. I can kill the Deathrites. I can kill the True-Name and everything else. But Young Pyromancer getting in the way is a pain in the balls. The number of catch-alls I've started running to compensate for this surprises me, and I'm actually looking to add another Toxic Deluge on top of it all. I doubt it'll happen, but for reference, here's my current sideboard.

1*Containment Priest
2*Ethersworn Canonist
1*Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3*Leyline of the Void
1*Thoughtseize
1*Toxic Deluge
1*Boil (currently testing)
2*Golgari Charm
1*Maelstrom Pulse
1*Slaughter Games
1*Wear//Tear

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

1*Containment Priest
2*Ethersworn Canonist
1*Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3*Leyline of the Void
1*Thoughtseize
1*Toxic Deluge
1*Boil (currently testing)
2*Golgari Charm
1*Maelstrom Pulse
1*Slaughter Games
1*Wear//Tear

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Now I am curious, how is the Boil working out?
Do you miss the thoughtseize?
toxic deluge + pulse is a really interesting thing that I am always stopping myself from trying
Wear//Tear vs Sage? I actually prefer Wear and Tear but would opt for Disenchant since mana might be an issue
3 Leylines + Priest? Too much hate no?


My sb for comparison:
1x Choke
1x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Golgari Charm
2x Leyline of the Void
1x Reclamation Sage (Trying disenchant)
1x Slaughter Games
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge (Miss my Pulse)

It also makes me very sad that the deck is not showing any good results in the US. Because this is what it needs to get the spotlight it deserves.
I am thinking about going to GP Seattle, but not without some other crazy people who are willing to make the trip (and finding a cheap flight).
But I am definitely going to the MKM series in Prague and hope to meet some of you guys there.

Primer: I am sorry but I do not have the time right now to write a primer due to some non-Magic-related stuff I have to do.

My biggest concern is people maindecking Kolaghans Command in Grixis. Seriously? This is just a nightmare for the deck, killing either Mox or Chalice, while dealing with Dark Confidant or recurring their threat...

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Originally Posted by Pilhas

Do you miss the thoughtseize?

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I put Thoughtseize in there. If you're wondering why I don't run two, I never have. It was schniggaz who bumped it up to two. Never personally been fond of multiples.

Boil has so far been MIA throughout every game I've played. I bought a copy from Card Titan at Eternal Weekend and I did six rounds at the trial, nine rounds at the main event, did a few more games not at the event, and then jammed some boredom-games on Cockatrice with Boil. Aaand I still haven't drawn it. Seriously. In not a single post-board game have I actually drawn the damn card even though it gets boarded in over fifty percent of the time. I'll let you know how it turns out when I do finally get to draw it.

I love Wear//Tear and I've never had an issue with the mana cost or getting through Chalice with a solo-Tear. As far as Reclamation Sage, I've always felt myself needing the instant speed and potential two-for-one swing more often than another Green Sun's Zenith target. I'd like to put both, but, if I can only have one, Wear//Tear gets first pick.

Containment Priest is a relic from when Elves and Sneak&Show weren't in the popularity dregs and were actually a relevant threat in the meta. It can and probably will eventually get replaced. Maybe even by Toxic Deluge. But another Deluge is honestly a bit further down on the priority list than other pieces, so we'll see.

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Originally Posted by Pilhas

I feel that our deck have a lot of complicated intricacies that most don't understand while playing. I saw a lot of people(myself included) lose with the deck by fetching the wrong land t1 and only having impact t4, but enough to lose the game. The mulligan decisions are really complicated. When to dredge/when to dredge with sylvan lib/when to pay life with sylvan lib. When to fetch lands with knight. when to go for waste lock. When to grove the fires back.
All these decisions are really complicated and are usually multiple of them at the same time.
You talk about having high finishes in GP Lille but the 3 people that did don't have much visibility due to being in Europe. The only person that I ever saw having multiple high finishes in high profile tournaments is Niklas, who created the deck.

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^^This pretty much sums things up about why you don't see more aggro loam. It's harder to pilot (and arguably build) than the top tier decks like Delver, Miracles, DRS+SFM.dec, etc. Lots of singleton options in the 75 for aggro loam make huge differences for an event.

@RG Lands: For SCG, I think RG is more appealing because it can more or less "combo" to insta-win. A sudden 20/20 probably appeals to a broader base of players than a sophisticated 4C grindy-and-has-intricate-interactions deck.

@iamajellydonut: Wear/Tear is interesting. Apparently if there's an expendable artifact on the table besides chalice, you can combine the cost for both sides (cc is then = 3), so it can slip past chalice @ 1. I don't like the Boil idea. I think it's a bigger gamble in the risk-return department than Choke.

@Meta: Based on what is winning/trending, I think the deck needs more Deluge in the SB. I'm a HUGE fan of the card in general. It just stomps so much ass while indiscriminately killing everything on the table. Popular creatures that are are problematic to kill include Pyro, Angler, TNN, and Tasigur. I guess you could count the new Jace in the discussion, but he dies quickly to decay and/or becomes weak with Pfires online. If Mongoose comes back into the mainstream, only something like decay takes him out.

@jelly did not see the Thoughtseize in there.
I recommend dropping the 3rd leyline over priest. Really like how it performed!
Think I am gonna give disenchant a shot before wear and tear.
When you have some results from Boil feel free to tell us then.

Never saw Kolaghans Command but seems harsh!

@schniggaz Not that I am thinking or anything but how much is the trip to seattle from germany?
Here in Portugal is averaging 700€

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Originally Posted by Dissection

Is this the best option? Kind of awkward with Chalice.

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That was really all I had on hand at the time. :-) I like the idea of another sac outlet. I'm not a fan of toxic deluge against angler because that's 5 life that you probably don't have to spare when it comes down.

Also, the other deck I've been having a lot of issues with is Miracles. Usually I get them to 2-6 life before they lock me out of the game. Usually because they eat up the clock spinning their stupid tops.

I also want to start playing Boil as well. Choke is good, but a lot of decks bring in enchantment removal. I like a more permanent solution. Also miracles usually only have Jace/Venser in it's 4 slot.

As for the lack of this deck in the US. I know a lot of people acknowledge it as one of the better/best fair deck in the current metagame it just hasn't caught on. Lands has been putting up good numbers so people gravitate towards it. That's good for us because it's an EZ matchup IMHO unless you get turn 1/2'ed.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

That was really all I had on hand at the time. :-) I like the idea of another sac outlet. I'm not a fan of toxic deluge against angler because that's 5 life that you probably don't have to spare when it comes down.

Also, the other deck I've been having a lot of issues with is Miracles. Usually I get them to 2-6 life before they lock me out of the game. Usually because they eat up the clock spinning their stupid tops.

I also want to start playing Boil as well. Choke is good, but a lot of decks bring in enchantment removal. I like a more permanent solution. Also miracles usually only have Jace/Venser in it's 4 slot.

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Just curious... I know you were one of the primary 12post players on the east coast... have you abandoned that deck completely in favor of Aggro Loam?

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Originally Posted by MGB

Just curious... I know you were one of the primary 12post players on the east coast... have you abandoned that deck completely in favor of Aggro Loam?

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12post is my A deck. 12 post is a 5/95% matchup against the current builds of Omnitell. Just plain miserable.
I'm trying to make Aggro loam my B deck.

Ironically the decks are very similar in play style.

BTW we talked about kolaghan's command vs us but as anyone tried running it?
Just poped into my mind being such a versatile card.

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Originally Posted by Pilhas

BTW we talked about kolaghan's command vs us but as anyone tried running it?
Just poped into my mind being such a versatile card.

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I died to it last night while playing this archetype...Does that count?

I golgari charmed away a True Name Nemesis, two turns later a Kologhan's command was cast with modes A. Destroy my Chalice and B. return True Name from GY to hand. It was brutal.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I died to it last night while playing this archetype...Does that count?

I golgari charmed away a True Name Nemesis, two turns later a Kologhan's command was cast with modes A. Destroy my Chalice and B. return True Name from GY to hand. It was brutal.

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That's absolutely disgusting. Is this card becoming popular to run? Recursion like that is such a bitch.

Maybe it's just a crutch, but I really want a second Deluge in the sideboard. I'll be taking the Choke out of the above list - it's the slot I'm least attached to.

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Originally Posted by bakofried

Maybe it's just a crutch, but I really want a second Deluge in the sideboard. I'll be taking the Choke out of the above list - it's the slot I'm least attached to.

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I kinda do too, it's worked really nicely for me in my short time playing this deck.

What do you guys do against Omni? Only played it a few times, so maybe it's just lack of experience but I find they're too fast. Obviously chalice for 1 helps slow em down but sometimes they still just go off. Do you put anything in the board specifically for Omni? Anyone try an Ashen Rider or something similar? Slaughter games (so far) has been too slow, but in theory hitting that while naming S&T is the game. Still can't bank on having it on my hand, with a mox (so I can race) and being on the play, in order to cast it first though. Gonna try a few different things but thought I'd ask in the meantime :)

What land is the best replacement for Karakas? I know it's really good but I don't want to buy one for a while. Just a regular plains or other untily land?

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Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk

I kinda do too, it's worked really nicely for me in my short time playing this deck.

What do you guys do against Omni? Only played it a few times, so maybe it's just lack of experience but I find they're too fast. Obviously chalice for 1 helps slow em down but sometimes they still just go off. Do you put anything in the board specifically for Omni? Anyone try an Ashen Rider or something similar? Slaughter games (so far) has been too slow, but in theory hitting that while naming S&T is the game. Still can't bank on having it on my hand, with a mox (so I can race) and being on the play, in order to cast it first though. Gonna try a few different things but thought I'd ask in the meantime :)

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It is a bad matchup, there is almost no way to win first game. After sideboard I bring ~10 cards, you have many stuff to cut, so even suboptimal stuff in the sb can be nice.

I bring Choke, 2 Ethersworn Canonist,2 Golgari Charm, Reclamation Sage, Slaughter Games,2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben,2 Thoughtseize, Pulse.
Actually it is 12 cards :) but most of them are there for other matchups. Just happen to do something instead of a Loam.

The plan is put pressure and follow with a Games/canonist on S&T. Sage is sometimes not enough, I am toying with disenchant and other cards. but canonist on S&T and follow that up with a golgari charm or something like that.... Usually it is game

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Originally Posted by Ganfar

What land is the best replacement for Karakas? I know it's really good but I don't want to buy one for a while. Just a regular plains or other untily land?

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Basically anything will do so long as it doesn't enter the battlefield tapped. While it is nice to have the extra white mana, you are mostly using it for the utility. So you can easily just swap it for a stronger color base or whatever other utility land you feel necessary. Bear in mind though that Karakas is great. If you like the deck, the sooner you can get a hold of a copy the better.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Basically anything will do so long as it doesn't enter the battlefield tapped. While it is nice to have the extra white mana, you are mostly using it for the utility. So you can easily just swap it for a stronger color base or whatever other utility land you feel necessary. Bear in mind though that Karakas is great. If you like the deck, the sooner you can get a hold of a copy the better.

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No substitute for Karakas but you can run a Canopy. The thing is Untapped and Colored Mana.

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Originally Posted by RhoxWarMonk

What do you guys do against Omni? Only played it a few times, so maybe it's just lack of experience but I find they're too fast. Obviously chalice for 1 helps slow em down but sometimes they still just go off. Do you put anything in the board specifically for Omni? Anyone try an Ashen Rider or something similar? Slaughter games (so far) has been too slow, but in theory hitting that while naming S&T is the game. Still can't bank on having it on my hand, with a mox (so I can race) and being on the play, in order to cast it first though. Gonna try a few different things but thought I'd ask in the meantime :)

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I played a lot of sideboarded playtest games against Omni. Here are my findings:
- The chances of winning game 1 is around 10%.
- I felt like I won around 30-40% of games after sideboard.

The only way to beat them is to basically one-two-three drop them. You need to mulligan more aggressively than normal. Ideally you want to lead off with diamond into thalia/Bob/canonist/chalice OR turn 1 thoughtsieze. With a curving out into Knight. Most games they will be at 6 to 1 life before they combo.

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Originally Posted by iamajellydonut

Basically anything will do so long as it doesn't enter the battlefield tapped. While it is nice to have the extra white mana, you are mostly using it for the utility. So you can easily just swap it for a stronger color base or whatever other utility land you feel necessary. Bear in mind though that Karakas is great. If you like the deck, the sooner you can get a hold of a copy the better.

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I know that Karakas is great and need to get it in the future(Kill a 20/20 with a land is good). If the white mana don't matter maybe Volrath's Stronghold is a good replanesment.

@Pilhas Canpy is good to.

I don't how good it is to have Thoughtsize in sideborad then you run a void in the deck. You often want both in the same match up and you really don't cast a void on 1 and draw a Thoughtsize afterwards. Is not Hymn better?