[Primer] Elves!

Thank you both for your replies!
Mulliganing is one thing I have to work on with my play.

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Originally Posted by danyul

Edit - Also, I'm pretty sure BUG Delver sides out Hymn in favor of Thoughtseize postboard, so you probably didn't need to be that afraid of their discard. I would be more afraid of the Golgari Charms and Disfigures.

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Well, after I drew my first card I got hymn to tourach-ed.
As if it wasn't already bad enough :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Valarne

Elves: 2 Golgari Charm, 2 Cage, Thief, 2 Flusterstorm, Plague – 4 Daze, 3 Decay, Hymn.

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Originally Posted by akatsuki

Also, because a friend asked, here is my SB guide for the top decks right now, using the SCG winning list. These plans aren't set in stone and suit my own playstyle. I probably don't even follow these exactly, but I think they will still be helpful.

Elves: unfavored game 1, favored games 2 and 3
-1 Bayou, -4 Daze, -4 Hymn, -2 Liliana
+1 Grafdigger’s, +3 Disfigure, +3 Golgari Charm, +3 Spell Pierce, +1 Submerge
Game 1, rely on fliers, game 2 you'll have enough removal that Craterhoof will be difficult, so just try to beat NO for Proggy. I personally don't like Liliana, but I might be wrong about her.

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Originally Posted by nickmooretol

I also have rough sideboarding plans based on reading this thread and Bob's article on CFB. My initial instinct is that my numbers may be slightly off on what categories of cards I have in my sideboard and that I should probably be bringing in Thoughtseize in more matchups:

Elves:
-4 Daze -4 Hymn to Tourach -2 Tarmogoyf -1 Bayou
+3 Golgari Charm +3 Disfigure +2 Thoughtseize +1 Vendilion Clique +2 Grafdigger's Cage
I'm going to try Thoughtseize over Spell Pierce and adjust if need be.

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Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90

@nickmooretol: How has two Grafdigger's Cage in the board worked out for you?

As for sbing, against Elves I would not bother siding in thoughtseize with your current board plan since: 1. Since you're siding out all your hymns. Not to say that is bad (it's probably for the best), but you need the discard in the early game for it to be good. With only two thoughtseizes to side in and no hymns to complement them you're probably not going to see discard spell as often as you would like for the early game and draw it when it won't matter. 2. If you wanted to try them out the hard part is what else you would side out? You could side out the last two Goyfs, but then you might go too low on threats. Plus Goyf is alright as a threat if you can keep control of the board and deny them their tricksy dudes (Quirion Ranger and Symbiote).

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Originally Posted by Dragonslayer_90

I'm also planning to go to Indy for the Legacy Open this weekend. I'm playing a stock list with Lili and Sylvan in the flex slots. Here's my board currently:

SB: 3 Golgari Charm
SB: 3 Disfigure
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Creeping Tar Pit
SB: 1 Liliana of the Veil
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Vendilion Clique

My SB's also pretty similar to everyone else's really. The Engineered Plague is mostly a nod to Elves, the only tier deck match-up I'm genuinely terrified to play against. Maybe I shouldn't have plague in the board just for that match-up but I feel like I need some extra push against that deck. Let me know what you guys think on my board.

Since Elves is the match-up I've been trying to test against recently here's the board plan I've come up with:

On the play: -1 Bayou -2 Goyf -1 Lili -4 Hymn -1 Daze +3 Disfigure +3 Golgari Charm +1 Engineered plague +1 Grafdigger's Cage +1 Vendilion Clique

On the draw: Same plan except I swap out the rest of my Dazes for Spell Pierces. My friend that I've been testing with recently thinks I should keep Dazes in on the play since it has more targets than Spell Pierce. This could be wrong but I haven't done enough testing to know if it's worth keeping any amount of Dazes in when I'm on the play.

General Observations on the Elves Matchup after some Testing:

-G1 is so bad unless I get lucky or they get unlucky and stumble.

- Postboard is more even but can still be tough. I feel like I NEED to tempo them out because they can out grind you and/or even just aggro you out if they can't combo you out. In general, I'm hoping to dodge this match-up when I play at Indy this weekend. But I know there's a decent chance of me facing it so I've been testing this matchup in particular as much I could recently. Let me know if you guys have anything to say in response to what I've posted.

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Sorry to launch a quote wall attack at you. I've just been trolling the BUG Delver forum for awhile so I know it's standard procedure for them to bring out 4 Hymns. So assuming I know my opponent to be a guy who reads up on forums and tries to follow common sideboarding guides, I would assume he would be Hymn-free postboard. The fact that your opponent still had Hymns in should have come as a bit of a surprise.

Anyways, your hands were stinky. Just keep at it and don't let a loss to random chance sour your mood too much. If you made a legitimate misplay, then you should be upset. But losses to variance should be shrugged off as quickly as possible.

I find it hilarious they side out hymns against us...it's usually the one card I'm scared of.

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Originally Posted by danyul

Sorry to launch a quote wall attack at you. I've just been trolling the BUG Delver forum for awhile so I know it's standard procedure for them to bring out 4 Hymns. So assuming I know my opponent to be a guy who reads up on forums and tries to follow common sideboarding guides, I would assume he would be Hymn-free postboard. The fact that your opponent still had Hymns in should have come as a bit of a surprise.

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I agree, Golgari Charms would have been much worse but he kept Hymns in G2, so I also expected them G3. It could have been that he didn't even have Golgari Charms in his deck since I'm the only elves-deck in my meta and TNN is still fairly new here, although I did see some of them.
Just to explain why I expected Hymns G3.

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Originally Posted by danyul

Anyways, your hands were stinky. Just keep at it and don't let a loss to random chance sour your mood too much. If you made a legitimate misplay, then you should be upset. But losses to variance should be shrugged off as quickly as possible.

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Yes I learned a lot and alltogether I was quite satisfied with the way I played.

Thanks for your advice!

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...0&d=1390194275

What about a one of Chromanticore? Maybe in the sideboard? It's like our version of Batterskull. I think it would be fun to test at least!

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Originally Posted by matty

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...0&d=1390194275

What about a one of Chromanticore? Maybe in the sideboard? It's like our version of Batterskull. I think it would be fun to test at least!

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Come on ... Why does every damn green, uncastable expensive, creature end up in this thread for Suggestion? It's one of the worst NO targets ever and not even close to real NO threats we used to run.

Can we ... please ... stop that?

What Lemnear really is trying to say is "No, it isn't big enough to replace Progenitus. Progenitus closes the game in 2 turns, this thing takes 5 turns to do so, dies too easily and can be blocked."

And then we say "Why, thank you Lemnear for that useful comment! Now we understand why running that new creature over Progenitus isn't such a good idea. We really learn a lot from those nice, friendly and constructive contributions you make!" and the discussion is over :smile:.

Was that so hard?

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Originally Posted by Echelon

What Lemnear really is trying to say is "No, it isn't big enough to replace Progenitus. Progenitus closes the game in 2 turns, this thing takes 5 turns to do so, dies too easily and can be blocked."

And then we say "Why, thank you Lemnear for that useful comment! Now we understand why running that new creature over Progenitus isn't such a good idea. We really learn a lot from those nice, friendly and constructive contributions you make!" and the discussion is over :smile:.

Was that so hard?

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I liked lemnears version better.
No need to be condescending, that can hurt peoples feelings.

@Lemnear
I've jammed 1 x Worldspine Wurm in my SB for ultimate Troll against S&T decks.

Bitches love the wurm

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Originally Posted by Kayradis

@Lemnear
I've jammed 1 x Worldspine Wurm in my SB for ultimate Troll against S&T decks.

Bitches love the wurm

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Like my Akroma in Miracles sideboard to troll Griselbrand :D

Ill think Ill alter my Griselbrands and put your name on it.

Got a certain badass conotation to it no?

7-2ed SCGvegas, 7-2ed SCGbaltimore with elves. (i had gone 8-2 in the std portion too, so i was exhausted as well ;___;)

lost to rug and reanimator once each in baltimore.

g3 vs reanimator, i thoughtseize him on t1, and his hand is 3 lands, brainstorm, fow, exhume (he's on the play, he chose to not to brainstorm in response to thoughtseize here), and his t1 was U Sea go. what do you take and why?

Later, in round 7, i lost a close one to Daryl Ayers playing RUG in 3 games. I don't recall any tough decisions there, but he had 2 fast flipped delvers for g3.

also i played a maindeck shaman and a 2/2 split on birchlore/heritage for baltimore.

I play a 3/3 split of Quirion/Birchlore.
It allows me to explosive t2

I think you take the brainstorm...because he has nothing to exhume and would need 2 cards to "go off". The other option would be FoW if you had a turn 2-3 kill in hand and just wanted to punish him for the loose play (not brainstorming seems very loose...)

I think taking the exhume is only valid if he has a way to dump spell + fattie already in hand-- otherwise, his reanimation effects are too redundant and that brainstorm will likely find him another.

btw sup Jarvis! This is James Hess, dunno if you remember me but I know we have a ton of mutual friends and go to many of the same events =)

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Originally Posted by Shagstaman

I think you take the brainstorm...because he has nothing to exhume and would need 2 cards to "go off". The other option would be FoW if you had a turn 2-3 kill in hand and just wanted to punish him for the loose play (not brainstorming seems very loose...)

I think taking the exhume is only valid if he has a way to dump spell + fattie already in hand-- otherwise, his reanimation effects are too redundant and that brainstorm will likely find him another.

btw sup Jarvis! This is James Hess, dunno if you remember me but I know we have a ton of mutual friends and go to many of the same events =)

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did i play against you last weekend? i can't really remember after 19 rounds, sorry :X

minireport:
r1 vs affinity, won 2-0
r2 vs reanimator, lost 1-2
r3 vs UR delver, won 2-0
r4 vs friend playing D&T, won 2-0
r5 vs dredge, won 2-1 (i won g1 after mulling to 5 on the draw, kept 2 lands, deathrite, quirion + something, i believe.) it was still relatively close but i managed to squeak it out by containing ichorids/narcs. g2, i got killed on t1 via t1 led, led, careful study, in response crack both LEDs floating RRRRRR and lootings off the dredges. g3, i had the t2 natural ooze and wrapped it up
r6 vs UWR delver, won 2-0
r7 vs RUG delver, lost to daryl ayers 1-2
r8 vs UWR delver, won 2-0 (this match g2, i therapied him to clear the way for a fast NO and hit on my blind therapy and then used a glimpse to bait out a force)
r9 vs UWr miracles, won 2-1

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Originally Posted by jarvisyu

did i play against you last weekend? i can't really remember after 19 rounds, sorry :X

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no it's been years since we actually played...I think we got paired up in a side event at a 5K like 3 years ago. I am friends with Darryl and recently stayed with the MD crew + Ali in Vegas.

*creeps back into the shadows*
muaha.

In the Reanimator scenario I would take the Entomb for sure. This makes him need to find 2 cards to go off, if you leave it and he finds Entomb, you'll be sorry. I could see an arguement for taking Brainstorm, but he didn't seem to care if you took it.

Definitely take Exhume. Taking anything else is a classic case of overthinking the situation.