Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
@Ricardio, cheers. I actually started playing legacy in Japan. I had access to 2 to 3 legacy events a week, and now I've moved back to England, and well shit, the pond is pretty dry where I am.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
That manabase has allowed me to hardcast Elesh Norn & bigger on a regular basis. Getting lands with Veteran Explorer has never since the inception of this list and manabase (several years ago) been a problem. And if you have all your basics out, that means you're @7 mana. Do you really care that much about your Explorer trigger at that point..? I don't think so.
.... Lots of Text.
I think you misunderstood me and then went a bit over the top (like your fetch lands ;)
You were talking about cutting a forest for a utility land (you forgot or?), I was merely saying that IF I were you, I'd cut a fetchland for the utility land instead of the 3rd forest. Precisely for the reason you mentioned, that having 7 basics seems to be a magic number.
I then mentioned that tbh it's my preference to not cut any of the lands and instead add the utility land and cut a card because lands are good for you.
I'm going to ignore the part were you teach me how fetch lands work, thanks though, had no idea.
Regarding your paragraph on mulligan statistics, you kind of proved my point. It does make a difference. I can't be bothered to pull up Karsten's article, but I'm pretty sure your arguement can be made the other way as well. Look at all those numbers again with one less land, you'll find that the percentage differences are just as minimal. Probably (lol) about a 0.06% and 3% difference respectively, which in your opinion is too small to care about, so cut a land, go down to 20. You can't tell me you actually notice that small of a percentage difference? Since you can't possibly notice that difference you can do the maths again and realise it's another small percentage gap to 19 land, that's too small a gap for Echeon, better cut a land again... When will this insanity end?!
It's alright if you think 21 land is the sweet spot, just don't tell me my sweet spot is mathematically irrelevant when it's not. That's being silly.
You're the one asking about adding a utility land anyways, sure cut the forest.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jain_Mor
I think you misunderstood me and then went a bit over the top (like your fetch lands ;)
You were talking about cutting a forest for a utility land (you forgot or?), I was merely saying that IF I were you, I'd cut a fetchland for the utility land instead of the 3rd forest. Precisely for the reason you mentioned, that having 7 basics seems to be a magic number.
...
Probably (lol) about a 0.06% and 3% difference respectively, which in your opinion is too small to care about, so cut a land, go down to 20. You can't tell me you actually notice that small of a percentage difference? Since you can't possibly notice that difference you can do the maths again and realise it's another small percentage gap to 19 land, that's too small a gap for Echeon, better cut a land again... When will this insanity end?!
It's alright if you think 21 land is the sweet spot, just don't tell me my sweet spot is mathematically irrelevant when it's not. That's being silly.
That comment mostly displays your inability to understand what's said. Hence your trying to pull it out of context, but that's fine. The post was mostly there to display that a 21 land manabase can be just as sweet a spot as a 22 land manabase. It just demands some sacrifices (hence the absurd amount of fetchlands).
But yeah, let's agree we misunderstood. Moving on.
Looking at what we wish to cast we could argue that with Dragonlord Dromoka as the top of our manacurve having only 6 basic lands would suffice, so 7 basics isn't necessarily the magic number. Ofcourse that changes when running a 6-drop that can be Dazed, and that's where 7 basics does become the magic number.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
That comment mostly displays your inability to understand what's said... Moving on.
Haha.. Yea, best we do. Though you're right, you're not a total arsehole :)
I find that in my experience 6 basics isn't enough when you you're fetching basics against a wasteland deck and then want to fetch more off your vet triggers is all, plus you sometimes want to GSun for 6 off of all basics too
But when I'm running a Stoneforge build with shamans and topping out at Sigarda, then I play 6 basics and more fetchlands because you need white mana by turn 2 sometimes.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jain_Mor
Haha.. Yea, best we do. Though you're right, you're not a total arsehole :)
Meh, just a medium sized one. I lol'd :laugh:.
I find GSZ'ing for X = 6 a scary thing to do. It just screams "Counter me!". I try to circumvent that by GSZ'ing for X = 3, finding a Fierce Empath and tutoring up Dromoka to hardcast it the following turn. Good luck countering that bastard.
Oh, wait, you're playing Cabal Therapy too..? Well... Crap.
Kidding aside, the Empath angle is one a lot of opponents don't expect. But with that line you really do have to be careful when facing discard (I learned that the hard way).
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Til a flipped delver has cmc 0
And i was wondering why everybody was going like "Oh, delver must be suuuuuch a great matchup for you..."
Question: Meren is weak to drs (and graveyard hate in general) bc it's targeted, right?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dadadot
Question: Meren is weak to drs (and graveyard hate in general) bc it's targeted, right?
That is very true, good sir.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hey everyone. Is Deathrite THAT much of a turnoff for Meren? Also, why does everyone run Carpet of Flowers? What makes it so good?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Read Carpet of Flowers, It gives mana in each Main Phase equal islands opponent control.
This mean that you can play it for 0 on draw, play it, then gain mana in second main phase, and more over it's scaling on each turn, bolt/removal proof mana boost.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
It's mostly a replacement for Veteran Explorers vs Miracles (or blue decks with basics and large spells), but comes in vs Delver decks too.
And no, DRS isn't a reason not to play Meren, we have a million ways to kill it. Something worth bearing in mind though, seeing as it's the best creature in the format.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Fatal
Read Carpet of Flowers, It gives mana in each Main Phase equal islands opponent control.
This mean that you can play it for 0 on draw, play it, then gain mana in second main phase, and more over it's scaling on each turn, bolt/removal proof mana boost.
Only once a turn, it should be?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dissection
It's mostly a replacement for Veteran Explorers vs Miracles (or blue decks with basics and large spells), but comes in vs Delver decks too.
And no, DRS isn't a reason not to play Meren, we have a million ways to kill it. Something worth bearing in mind though, seeing as it's the best creature in the format.
I like the idea with swapping explorers for carpets. I am doing an IQ this Friday to test for the Open.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
Only once a turn, it should be?
Correct, but it triggers in each main phase being only able to make mana once each turn.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
itrytostorm
I like the idea with swapping explorers for carpets. I am doing an IQ this Friday to test for the Open.
That's the plan. Ramping Miracles is very dangerous as they have a late game as good as, if not, better than ours depending on the build. If you don't get a Deed down asap G1 Entreat can finish it fast. And obviously Carpet is great vs Daze, Spell Pierce, Wasteland etc so you board it vs Delver.
Good luck at your IQ.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
I am planning on running http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/344617#online. Does anyone have experience with this version and have a quick sb guide? I didn't see anything in the primer.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Is it that bad to run an enlightened tutor board? It can get a lot of hate/utility such as carpet of flowers, ethersworn canonist, engineered plague, choke, even rest in peace (for those who run it).
I'd like to hear the opinion of the veterans (pun not intended) of this deck about this idea.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Has Noble Hierarch ever been tried in this deck? Seems like it could be useful to get another exalted trigger at 1 cmc and it still fills the role of a manadork. Perhaps as a sideboard option when you don't want Explorers?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
Has Noble Hierarch ever been tried in this deck? Seems like it could be useful to get another exalted trigger at 1 cmc and it still fills the role of a manadork. Perhaps as a sideboard option when you don't want Explorers?
The exalted isn't really worth anything, and Carpet of Flowers is just better if you're siding Explorers out. You only really want to side explorers out vs Miracles anyway, and you'd side out Hierarchs in that matchup too if they were in the deck.
If you want a mana dork play DRSs, I doubt you could ever want more than 4x DRS and 4x Explorer.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Hey! That's me! I am a nicelebrity.
Most of its obvious, at least to me. What would you specifically like to understand?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
Is it that bad to run an enlightened tutor board? It can get a lot of hate/utility such as carpet of flowers, ethersworn canonist, engineered plague, choke, even rest in peace (for those who run it).
I'd like to hear the opinion of the veterans (pun not intended) of this deck about this idea.
I don't run e tutor package because I see it as too cute. Oddly enough, rip would hurt us more than other decks excluding dredge and rug delver. Plague was always too narrow. My board and some mb decisions are based on the mtgo meta being super blue and delver infested. In a real life meta, 4 decay could be wrong but not on mtgo. In Soviet wotc, abrupt decay you.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rubblekill
Is it that bad to run an enlightened tutor board? It can get a lot of hate/utility such as carpet of flowers, ethersworn canonist, engineered plague, choke, even rest in peace (for those who run it).
I'd like to hear the opinion of the veterans (pun not intended) of this deck about this idea.
I believe Ralf had a theory about how running an E.Tutor package is worse then just running multiple copies of the same card instead. The idea of losing your one-off tutor target seems a bad idea. Id does add some flexibility, but just as with a Living Wish package, it comes with a price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ralf
Be cautious to miss the experience counter trigger G2 & G3 to get around Containment priest and Grafdigger's cage.
Unless i am wrong, but it is not a "may" trigger. So it might actually risk judge calls, warnings and even game losses? Since you are benefiting from purposefully missing triggers.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
Hey! That's me! I am a nicelebrity.
Most of its obvious, at least to me. What would you specifically like to understand?
It just seems that there are a lot I would want in certain matches and unsure of what to cut. Just since I have no experience with the deck, can you list maybe the in/out for tempo(delver), miracles, shardless, and combo? I don't have a lot of time to playtest with the holiday, so any info would help me going in.
