[Deck] Death and Taxes

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Originally Posted by nudon

Can anyone provide a link to the replay of Thomas's win against SnT where he beat attacks from both Griselbrand and Emrakul? If no video, maybe a transcript of what happened?

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to make it short:

Board state: many lands and sneak attack vs thalia with jitte and mangara.

Griselbrand attacks via sneak attack, draws another griselbrand that gets mangara'ed (can't remember why he did not use mangara on Sneak attack at that point, probably because snt player was going to draw 7 cards anyway and may be able to play show and tell to put another fatty in play).
SnT player draws intuition, plays it, thomas answered with aven mindsencor and chooses to give him another intuition (useless with mindsencor in play) and starts beating with thalia equipped with jitte.
Snt player finally find emrakul, attacks with it. Thomas blocks it with mindsencor but looses many permanents. Thalia is still there with jitte and 2 lands.
As Mindsencor is not there anymore, snt player casts the intuition that Thomas gave him earlier, and uses sneak attack to put it in play and attack thomas. Thanks to jitte counters, thomas stay barely alive and has no permanents in play. He had kept a land in hand and has a creature in hand.
SnT players doesn't draw emrakul or griselbrand and thomas manages to find respectively:

colorless land.
Phyrexian revoker --> FoW
WHite land
THalia --> FoW
Aether vial --> FoW
Stoneforge mystic --> finally hits the table, does not search for anything, plays batterskull he had in hand and wins the next turn :p

Epic Game :p

I think D&T used to be a fringe deck, but it has recently hit a critical mass of good weenie cards.


StoneForge Mystic
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Mirran Crusader
Phyrexian Revoker


From casual play, I can confirm the fact that Mirran Crusader is batshit good with equipment.

The real test for this deck will be in the months to come to see f it can handle the meta shifting towards it. Course, this shouldn't be a problem for a attack that can survive a Griselbrand and to Emrakul attacks. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I think D&T used to be a fringe deck, but it has recently hit a critical mass of good weenie cards.


StoneForge Mystic
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Mirran Crusader
Phyrexian Revoker


From casual play, I can confirm the fact that Mirran Crusader is batshit good with equipment.

The real test for this deck will be in the months to come to see f it can handle the meta shifting towards it. Course, this shouldn't be a problem for a attack that can survive a Griselbrand and to Emrakul attacks. :laugh:

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The main reason it is where it is today is probably Thalia. She gives us a solution against combo decks and she's also a great beater with Jitte against creature decks.
I don't think the meta will shift towards D&T. it's a pretty hard deck to play, there are many interactions that make decision making difficult. Also, lots of people will not buy in 4 karakas just to test a deck.
And the lack of brainstorm :) lots of people don't like decks that do not have Blue and / or CA...

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Originally Posted by Tylert

And the lack of brainstorm :) lots of people don't like decks that do not have Blue and / or CA...

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I am one of those people. If it doesn't have some number of Brainstorms, I don't want to play it.

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Originally Posted by DragoFireheart

I am one of those people. If it doesn't have some number of Brainstorms, I don't want to play it.

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It's funny, because I'm the opposite. If it doesn't have Brainstorm, I'm interested.

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Originally Posted by Tylert

to make it short:

Board state: many lands and sneak attack vs thalia with jitte and mangara.

Griselbrand attacks via sneak attack, draws another griselbrand that gets mangara'ed (can't remember why he did not use mangara on Sneak attack at that point, probably because snt player was going to draw 7 cards anyway and may be able to play show and tell to put another fatty in play).
SnT player draws intuition, plays it, thomas answered with aven mindsencor and chooses to give him another intuition (useless with mindsencor in play) and starts beating with thalia equipped with jitte.
Snt player finally find emrakul, attacks with it. Thomas blocks it with mindsencor but looses many permanents. Thalia is still there with jitte and 2 lands.
As Mindsencor is not there anymore, snt player casts the intuition that Thomas gave him earlier, and uses sneak attack to put it in play and attack thomas. Thanks to jitte counters, thomas stay barely alive and has no permanents in play. He had kept a land in hand and has a creature in hand.
SnT players doesn't draw emrakul or griselbrand and thomas manages to find respectively:

colorless land.
Phyrexian revoker --> FoW
WHite land
THalia --> FoW
Aether vial --> FoW
Stoneforge mystic --> finally hits the table, does not search for anything, plays batterskull he had in hand and wins the next turn :p

Epic Game :p

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Thanks Tylert for the recap! Wish I could have watched it since the match sounds pretty awesome. :) I've been thinking of proxying DnT and this only gives me more reason to haha.

http://www.twitch.tv/magicprotour/b/390844105 (go to 1:34:10)

This is so much more exciting than any topdecked Lightning Helix og Cruel Ultimatums. :tongue:

Tbh i never understood why DnT 'disappeared' from the meta. It used to be a great deck with many answers, and Thomas and Michael just proved it (again)

Don't forget, Death & Taxes also won an SCG not too long ago, just back in September only about 8 months ago via a Ben Nash. ^.^

To anyone, who doesn't want to play decks without blue, i'll say this:

Try - for a month or so - NOT playing decks with blue.. It's a sure route for you, to become a better magic player..
Back in the day, when i started to play magic, i startede out playing mono-red burn.. I eventually got a hold of blue cards, since i always used to lose to these blueplaying decks.. i could play brainstorms yes, but how does one play a "good" brainstorm? ;) I didn't know, so i sold all of the blue cards, relying on Imperial Painter and Death and taxes.. Although d'nt is so incredibly hard to play and painter to, it tought me, NOT to be afraid of going to topdeck mode or not knowing what's on top.. ;)

So, long story short..... STOP PLAYING BLUE!!! It's good for your health ;)

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Originally Posted by feline

Don't forget, Death & Taxes also won an SCG not too long ago, just back in September only about 8 months ago via a Ben Nash. ^.^

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Yes, and Thomas also Top 8 or top 4 the only SCG open he went to. i don't understand why people keep saying that it won the GP because of the european meta. It just lacks more players overall. And skilled pilots maybe too.

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Originally Posted by Tylert

Yes, and Thomas also Top 8 or top 4 the only SCG open he went to. i don't understand why people keep saying that it won the GP because of the european meta. It just lacks more players overall. And skilled pilots maybe too.

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As far as i've been told, the european meta, generally has more combo than the american one..
With that in mind, i'm curious of the lack of Mono-W control in america? :P

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Originally Posted by phoenix4

As far as i've been told, the european meta, generally has more combo than the american one..
With that in mind, i'm curious of the lack of Mono-W control in america? :P

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No one plays the deck. It's a hard to pilot deck, because you need to know what's the goal of your opponent to play your pro-active cards (Ports / Phyrexian revoker / Etc).
I wish some scg grinder starts playing the deck so we can see what does it do in the hands of a high caliber player.

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Originally Posted by Tylert

No one plays the deck. It's a hard to pilot deck, because you need to know what's the goal of your opponent to play your pro-active cards (Ports / Phyrexian revoker / Etc).
I wish some scg grinder starts playing the deck so we can see what does it do in the hands of a high caliber player.

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Well, then you're in for a treat, this summer :)

Team rocket is coming stateside ;)

Hi all,
i would like to post a new death and taxes deck style with welder and this new enchantment. Tell me what u think about it.

http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=973387

ACTUALLY i was thinking at the great sinergy that GOBLIN WELDER + Sundering Titan + Legion's Initiative
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1366043832

second turn of welder taps / titan comes in from cemetery in exchange of an artifact land or whatever / Legion activated / Titan and welder goes out / Titan adn welder goes in with haste (untapped?)/ Titan attacks / Second phase welder activate ability / Titan goes in the cemetery =

7 damage (if not blocked) + 4 times titan effect (shall i say that is a completly wrap up on all lands?) . Playing trokair land gives u and advance of course.

Y'all will be in for a treat in december, since SCG Open comes to San Fran, and my worst tournament with the deck I came in 9th ^_^ !

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tylert

to make it short:

Board state: many lands and sneak attack vs thalia with jitte and mangara.

Griselbrand attacks via sneak attack, draws another griselbrand that gets mangara'ed (can't remember why he did not use mangara on Sneak attack at that point, probably because snt player was going to draw 7 cards anyway and may be able to play show and tell to put another fatty in play).
SnT player draws intuition, plays it, thomas answered with aven mindsencor and chooses to give him another intuition (useless with mindsencor in play) and starts beating with thalia equipped with jitte.
Snt player finally find emrakul, attacks with it. Thomas blocks it with mindsencor but looses many permanents. Thalia is still there with jitte and 2 lands.
As Mindsencor is not there anymore, snt player casts the intuition that Thomas gave him earlier, and uses sneak attack to put it in play and attack thomas. Thanks to jitte counters, thomas stay barely alive and has no permanents in play. He had kept a land in hand and has a creature in hand.
SnT players doesn't draw emrakul or griselbrand and thomas manages to find respectively:

colorless land.
Phyrexian revoker --> FoW
WHite land
THalia --> FoW
Aether vial --> FoW
Stoneforge mystic --> finally hits the table, does not search for anything, plays batterskull he had in hand and wins the next turn :p

Epic Game :p

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This makes it sound like D&T won on some play skill and a healthy helping of luck. Yes, Thalia is great but she doesn't take this matchup from nearly unwinnable to dependably winnable. I still don't understand D&T is thriving vs all these combo decks. Does anyone have an explanation besides just pointing to the Strasbourg results?

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Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

This makes it sound like D&T won on some play skill and a healthy helping of luck. Yes, Thalia is great but she doesn't take this matchup from nearly unwinnable to dependably winnable. I still don't understand D&T is thriving vs all these combo decks. Does anyone have an explanation besides just pointing to the Strasbourg results?

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Apart from being decent against combo you can't underestimate the surprise factor. Since no one tested against it I'm sure a lot of players made mistakes against the deck just on account of not knowing what creatures D&T run precisely and/or how they interact.

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Originally Posted by Mirrislegend

This makes it sound like D&T won on some play skill and a healthy helping of luck. Yes, Thalia is great but she doesn't take this matchup from nearly unwinnable to dependably winnable. I still don't understand D&T is thriving vs all these combo decks. Does anyone have an explanation besides just pointing to the Strasbourg results?

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If you are referring go S&T, then the answer is 3-4x maindeck Karakas (4x in mosts lists up until the latest tweaks), 2-3 maindeck Mangara, and 4 maindeck Phyrexian Revokers to go along with Thalias, Ports and Wasteland. Then you bring in O-ring from the side. The S&T match-up is one of D&T's best. Storm is not as good, but then again 4x maindeck Thalia and 4 Revokers to go along with the Canonists from the sideboard means that if you get to turn 2 (a huge if) you'll almost surely be able to land a hoser. And you have mothers to protect them.

Seeing that Enevoldsen has trimmed the Mangara/Karakas combo by cutting 1 Karakas and 1 Mangara, I would like to ask you experienced DnT players:

1) Is this something you recommend as well?

2) In which matchups is the Mangara/Karakas combo best?


Thanks!
Hans

Don't forget that Flikkerwisp also combos with Mangara.