[Deck] 12 Post

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I went X-1 this week at weekly legacy with nearly exactly my post GPT list. the deck was:
// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage

I wanted to test World Breaker vs Reclamation Sage. I'm still not sold on one over the other, so I might just stick with a 1-1 spread in my 2-of creature artifact/enchantment destruction slot.

This sideboard is one of my favorites yet. It is really 3, 5-ofs with enough overlap and splash to work in most matchups. I might go to 2 grip 2 world breakers if I enjoy it enough, but I wouldn't go below 3 total grip+etb destruction abilities (reclamation sage/bane of progress).


My Loss was to 3 games vs Grixis that were extremely close, despite a mull to 5 on me game 1, on him game 2. Both losses came down to him using every card in his hand to just barely edge out a win as I was stabilizing, with extremely minimal fixing. Despite the loss, I feel very confident in this matchup. (I faced it twice last weekend and 2-0'd it both times) Even after our games he was boggled at how outlandishly perfect his draws were.

As it is, this deck is both very tight, but allows for incredibly bad draws to still work your way. This is probably my favorite version of the deck to date. If you're looking for a solid state of the deck to bring to a GP, this is it.

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How is your infect match-up? are the two Ensnaring bridges enough?

@mechtactical
ensnaring bridge is normally to slow and they win through bridges..
Also the infect match up is bad for U/G Post..Even if bouth player are at the same level.
His List will lose to unconstancy...
You want always 4 crop rotation against Infect and other match ups right now.
More needles are always very important.
If you have problems with infect you should play dismember in the sideboard and more warping wails.

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Originally Posted by Pdingo

@mechtactical
ensnaring bridge is normally to slow and they win through bridges..
Also the infect match up is bad for U/G Post..Even if bouth player are at the same level.
His List will lose to unconstancy...
You want always 4 crop rotation against Infect and other match ups right now.
More needles are always very important.
If you have problems with infect you should play dismember in the sideboard and more warping wails.

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hi, i guess in mono g warping wail could by fine and necessary this time but against infect is so bad in any build tested little this card where i meet on my weekly local 2-3 infect players in average and ussually that card is better just for bugs. for me best option could be moment's peace(infect,eldrazis) maze is good just with candles and for ug additional submerge seems to me great and was and for reliquary knight is great too ..

Warping wail is pretty ok..if they counter then ok happens.. if they us theyre pumpspells it's als so fine.
Some times a token can be good also..
But yeh i prefer dismember..
Moments peace is ok..but each of those card have the same problem..it can be countered..that's why i prefer a 1 mana spell like dismember or also submerge if you play blue.. and dont forget crop rotatio .

Another update on my journey into Legacy, now framed by this very small local metagame of 8-10 players:

(1) Mono green Titan Post (me)
(2) Storm (currently building Miracles)
(3) Lands
(4) Lands
(5) UB Reanimator (with LED and Burning Wish)
(6) Sneak and Show
(7) Abzan Nic Fit
(8) Mono black reanimator (not a regular player at this shop)
(9) RUG Delver
(10) ?

This week I'm going to try a white splash in the sideboard; I've swapped out two of my Forests for two Savannah. The list I'm going to try is:

4 Primeval Titan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya

1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pithing Needle
4 Crop Rotation
2 Expedition Map
4 Warping Wail
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Relic of Progenitus


4 Cloudpost

4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva

1 Thespian's Stage

4 Forest
2 Savannah
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Maze of Ith
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas

SIDEBOARD:

2 Krosan Grip
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Rest In Peace
1 Trinisphere
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Rule of Law
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Moment's Peace
1 Elephant Grass

I'm going to play in the SCG Worcester event July 9-10 and my list will have to change a little in order to face a more traditionally diverse metagame. These changes would probably include swapping Tabernacle to the main and Glacial Chasm to the side, and replacing the two Relic of Progenitus with a third Expedition Map and a third Vesuva.

Feedback is always very welcome. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

How is your infect match-up? are the two Ensnaring bridges enough?

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Bridge isn't there for infect. I wouldn't side it out, but I would strongly consider it. Not only are all their creatures 1/1's, but they can still kill you with noble hierarch under it.

The Infect matchup is generally pretty horrid. Fast combo with high consistency. Luckily, Infect preys off of unhealthy metas, which we are not in atm. Eldrazi Aggro is monsterously destroying them with Chalice/TKS/Revoker/Warping Wail and most builds moving towards Endbringer. Grixis control and delver builds both smash Infect.

If you are worried more about infect than storm/reanimator then go down to 3 surgicals and add 2 submerge/dismember/moment's peace.

I have found that pithing needle/chasm/warping wail/EE are enough to give you a chance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

Well Mr. Leshrac82 glad you joined in. I can confirmed he has beaten me with this deck several times (I'm not counting and hopefully he's not either :laugh:). Though we have to do a rematch soon, I'm playing a different list now...

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I don't really count, but i guess after yesterday it's one more in my favor. :wink:


About World Breaker: I tried that card in my build for a while, because the "return to hand"-clause seemed like a sweet bonus with Gitrog, Titania and Crucible. But overall i wasn't convinced it's good enough. The Enchantments i care about are mostly Blood Moon or Back to Basics, and World Breaker is a rather expensive answer to that. I was also hoping the Reach would help as a blocker against some flyers, but again, it's not fast enough to really matter against Delver. And when i had the Mana to search it up with Eye i usually also had the Mana to search up and cast Ulamog, and that's just a straight upgrade.

I'm still very happy with my deck, made some slight changes to the Maindeck (+1 Deathrite, +1 Veteran Explorer, +1 Forest, +1 Tabernacle, -1 Oracle, -1 Crucible, -1 Savannah, -1 Sea Gate Wreackage) and the Sideboard is changing all the time.

The biggest problem are still the Delver Decks. Against Combo i often get destroyed in game 1, but Postboard i have a solid plan and feel favored against pretty much everything - and if i would know what my opponent was on i could have a much better game 1 too. Most Blood Moon Decks are beatable, just Mono-Red-SneakAttack isn't really, but i can live with that. Right now i'm debating between different options for 2 Sideboard slots against Delver:
1. Chalice of the Void. I tried that for a while, it has won me a game or two and was also nice against some combo decks. But against combo it was also sometimes really awkward with Crop Rotations stuck in my hand. And in the meta right now every combo deck is prepared for that, and they always board in their answers, because these are also answers to other more expected hate cards i could play. Finally, against Delver it has to come down early to really win the game. So, i'm not convinced any more.
2. Elephant Grass. I tried that before, it has won me some games too. But it doesn't really stop their attacks for good and also hinders my development. And it was a very awkward card against Eldrazi - if it comes down it's solid, but it feels very wrong to board in 1-mana-spells against the Chalice Deck.
3. Ensnaring Bridge. I haven't tried that card at all, but i see it in a lot of maindecks in this thread. How good is it against Delver? How good is it against other Decks? And has it ever been a problem to close out a game because Bridge was in play and prevented our own attacks?
4. Are there any other good options i'm missing? (2x Engineered Explosives are already in the board and come in against any Delver Deck. 1x Engineered Plague comes in against Pyromancer versions, and it's pretty good against them. I'm also thinking about using my black splash for Toxic Deluge.)

You miss drop of honey;))
Strong card against delver decks.

I've been playtesting Ehhh GW 12post list and I've had great results thus far. The consistence of being basically 1 color is astounding. Right now the only deck that seems like an uphill battle is Eldrazi. At one point there was a list with 2x Moat. In a paper form, that seems almost impossible to acquire. I'm contemplating adding 2x Ghostly Prison in the SB to help slow down the Eldrazi deck. Is that card good enough? I'm shying away from Elephant grass because they play chalice and it's CMC = 1.

*Facepalm* Update: I think Ensnaring Bridge > Ghostly Prison, easier to cast and also gives additional games against lands.

My other issue is freeing up two slots from Ehhh's list. Right now I'm leaning towards cutting the dawnstrider and possibly A. the ethersworn cannonist or B. squeezing the bojuka bog main (somehow) to free up the slot. For these GW builds, how often is ethersworn canonist relavant? I knows a house against multiple spell combo, but seems like the narrowest card in the deck. But you still have to draw it, resolve it and it has to live.

Another Weekly Legacy event, another undefeated run with u/g post. Here's my list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage

Same list as the last event I X-1'd, this one going 4-0. Matchups were a bit one sided. Eldrazi Aggro (2-0), Storm (2-1), Eldrazi Aggro (2-0), Eldrazi Aggro (2-1)

Eldrazi Aggro everywhere in the CT/RI meta. Its cray. But this build has some strong answers to it. Ensnaring Bridge was always deciding of the match, or taken with Thoughtknot Seer. The sideboard of 3 5-ofs was extremely strong again. I might swap the 4th surgical for a 2nd Faerie Macabre, for both duress proof and less cabal therapy death.

I haven't gone so long without changing the deck majorly in a long time. 1-2 cards tweaked here and there. This build is incredibly strong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Another Weekly Legacy event, another undefeated run with u/g post. Here's my list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage

Same list as the last event I X-1'd, this one going 4-0. Matchups were a bit one sided. Eldrazi Aggro (2-0), Storm (2-1), Eldrazi Aggro (2-0), Eldrazi Aggro (2-1)

Eldrazi Aggro everywhere in the CT/RI meta. Its cray. But this build has some strong answers to it. Ensnaring Bridge was always deciding of the match, or taken with Thoughtknot Seer. The sideboard of 3 5-ofs was extremely strong again. I might swap the 4th surgical for a 2nd Faerie Macabre, for both duress proof and less cabal therapy death.

I haven't gone so long without changing the deck majorly in a long time. 1-2 cards tweaked here and there. This build is incredibly strong.

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This build looks like gas! Almost considering swapping to it from my UGw build...but with Columbus in just over a week and me having played this UGw build for months I think I'm going to hang on to what I'm used to for the GP and try it out afterwards.

Question for the forum:
Why do many players not utilize Thought-Knot Seer? He seems great in both mono G and UG builds. 1) He is a pretty decent threat alone. 2) Can really put a strain on an individuals hand. 3) He is a cheap and powerful eldrazi.

I am not the best at this deck but still love to tinker around with a few cards and TKS is pretty potent as of lately. He has slowed the game up for a few turns until I can get my post engines going. I would love some feedback on why not to include him in the mainboard. Thank you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brendelton

Question for the forum:
Why do many players not utilize Thought-Knot Seer?

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A big Legacy player friend of mine (who is not on a Post deck) asked me the same thing. My only reply was, "I don't know... but I've never seen it in any of the lists."

I'd be curious what people think about this card, too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brendelton

Question for the forum:
Why do many players not utilize Thought-Knot Seer? He seems great in both mono G and UG builds. 1) He is a pretty decent threat alone. 2) Can really put a strain on an individuals hand. 3) He is a cheap and powerful eldrazi.

I am not the best at this deck but still love to tinker around with a few cards and TKS is pretty potent as of lately. He has slowed the game up for a few turns until I can get my post engines going. I would love some feedback on why not to include him in the mainboard. Thank you.

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Thought-Knot Seer is just slow for our deck if you don't using lands like mud he is slow in any aggro matchup and combo .. goyf is ussualy bigger too and during third or fourth turn you are waiting with other things like crop,map activation etc.. could be better against control but not sure .. Cau

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

A big Legacy player friend of mine (who is not on a Post deck) asked me the same thing. My only reply was, "I don't know... but I've never seen it in any of the lists."

I'd be curious what people think about this card, too.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brendelton

Question for the forum:
Why do many players not utilize Thought-Knot Seer? He seems great in both mono G and UG builds. 1) He is a pretty decent threat alone. 2) Can really put a strain on an individuals hand. 3) He is a cheap and powerful eldrazi.

I am not the best at this deck but still love to tinker around with a few cards and TKS is pretty potent as of lately. He has slowed the game up for a few turns until I can get my post engines going. I would love some feedback on why not to include him in the mainboard. Thank you.

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If you looked back 3-4 pages, there were a few weeks where I maindeck'd TKS in both a mono G and U/g build. TKS is a great finisher in this deck, but that is all tks does, Finish. TKS is a good alternate to Primeval titan vs opposing Show and Tells, but is too late vs Reanimator, storm, infect, elves (ie everything else).

Vs Eldrazi Aggro, sure he is large, but they can make a 5/5 Endless One far faster than you can cast your 4/4, which on turn 4, at best matches their turn 2 TKS. Against most decks they are a liability, allowing you to deal with their hand, and then explode into 2+ cards by drawing, eot removing, drawing, and now they're on 3 cards to your 1. TKS can't attack into goyf or Gurmag Angler.

On turn 3-5 you are busy staving off death by spinning your wheels and preparing for your penultimate reversal. Tapping out and doing scarce little, often makes things much harder for you.

Thanks a lot for those reply's. Very constructive and made a ton of sense. Thanks again.

Sorry for another question, but how is platinum angel for 12post? I am going to Columbus in a week and am just trying to fine tune my build.

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Originally Posted by Brendelton

Sorry for another question, but how is platinum angel for 12post? I am going to Columbus in a week and am just trying to fine tune my build.

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I think most users play platinum emperion. The reason for that is he is harder to remove through damage and they have to kill him before they can kill you (aside from infect). With angel they can set you up for death, then remove it. The difference seems relevant to me, but perhaps others can weigh in.

I'm on the fence about ensnaring bridge...seems like in a few matchups it's amazing if it's drawn (like Eldrazi), but in the other 80% of matches it's totally useless. Can we make it something else? How do people feel about oblivion stone? 2-3 Moment's peace? spellskite? What other colorless/green interaction do we have that's cheap in order to not get killed turns 1-4?

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Originally Posted by THATONE

I'm on the fence about ensnaring bridge...seems like in a few matchups it's amazing if it's drawn (like Eldrazi), but in the other 80% of matches it's totally useless. Can we make it something else? How do people feel about oblivion stone? 2-3 Moment's peace? spellskite? What other colorless/green interaction do we have that's cheap in order to not get killed turns 1-4?

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Moment's Peace and Elephant Grass are likely your best options.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by THATONE

I'm on the fence about ensnaring bridge...seems like in a few matchups it's amazing if it's drawn (like Eldrazi), but in the other 80% of matches it's totally useless. Can we make it something else? How do people feel about oblivion stone? 2-3 Moment's peace? spellskite? What other colorless/green interaction do we have that's cheap in order to not get killed turns 1-4?

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As I mentioned in my details about the build. Ensnaring Bridge is for the U/G build, because with brainstorm and trinket mage, you can filter cards out of your hand.

In the last two weeks I have played against burn, miracles, reanimator, death and taxes, eldrazi aggro, Sneaky Show, Omni to name a few, and bridge have saved me when no other card would.

The real answer to your question isn't "Moment's peace, Elephant grass, spellskite" it is that you either need to come to terms with the fact that the C/g build has glaring matchup weaknesses that previously were abused by their being no real aggro in the format and very few combo (only omni because it was dominating all other combo), Or you can move to U/g, which can much more easily support ensnaring bridge @ 0 cards in hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

The real answer to your question isn't "Moment's peace, Elephant grass, spellskite" it is that you either need to come to terms with the fact that the C/g build has glaring matchup weaknesses that previously were abused by their being no real aggro in the format and very few combo (only omni because it was dominating all other combo), Or you can move to U/g, which can much more easily support ensnaring bridge @ 0 cards in hand.

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I wanted to add on to this really quickly. The other thing is that different builds accomplish the same goals with different cards. My colorless list can support Ensnaring Bridge relatively easily because it tends to get rid of cards quickly. I also run Silent Arbiter as another way to hold off idiots. If you're running C/g, Maze of Ith and Candelabra of Tawnos can accomplish more or less the same thing by holding off multiple creatures at the same time. Because I play almost exclusively at sorcery speed, my answers are preemptive: Thought-Knot Seer and sphere effects for combo, Karn Liberated for spot removal, for instance.

Part of your build choice should be the general meta where you are and part of it should be what your strengths are as a player. That's one of the great things about the deck: put in the mana engine and then customize it to your liking. I like Sensei's Divining Top; BoozeCube doesn't. Some U/G builds always have Trinket Mage; others don't. And so on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

I wanted to add on to this really quickly. The other thing is that different builds accomplish the same goals with different cards. My colorless list can support Ensnaring Bridge relatively easily because it tends to get rid of cards quickly. I also run Silent Arbiter as another way to hold off idiots. If you're running C/g, Maze of Ith and Candelabra of Tawnos can accomplish more or less the same thing by holding off multiple creatures at the same time. Because I play almost exclusively at sorcery speed, my answers are preemptive: Thought-Knot Seer and sphere effects for combo, Karn Liberated for spot removal, for instance.

Part of your build choice should be the general meta where you are and part of it should be what your strengths are as a player. That's one of the great things about the deck: put in the mana engine and then customize it to your liking. I like Sensei's Divining Top; BoozeCube doesn't. Some U/G builds always have Trinket Mage; others don't. And so on.

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I'm thinking to build a colorless list. What do you think of your list regarding the current metagame?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by benjiman13

I'm thinking to build a colorless list. What do you think of your list regarding the current metagame?

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I like it enough to develop it, obviously. It's sort of the love child of classic 12-Post and Eldrazi. It has pretty solid matchups against all of the Decks to Beat on here, and has at least a fighting chance against most of the rest if your topdecks are decent. Sphere effects can slow anyone down, Needles and Revokers can cut off random pieces of combo, Silent Arbiter stops swarms, Thought-Knot Seer can also catch random pieces of combo, and at higher CMCs you have board wipes, planeswalkers and really big guns. There's even graveyard hate in the main. I'm still developing the sideboard, but in its current form there tends to be multiple pieces you can bring in at a time to reinforce your various matchups.

Having said that, the deck is very much a slave to its topdecks. If you draw poorly, you will lose. If you have to mulligan a lot and you're not King Mise of Topdeckistan, you will lose. Decks that can kill you on the first turn almost always will.

But I like it. I've had success with it. I'll keep playing it until it stops being fun and/or I stop having success.

4 Primeval Titan
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion

3 Crop Rotation
4 Pithing Needle
2 Expedition Map
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Show and Tell
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Trinket Mage
1 Candelabra of Tawnos
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Moment's Peace

4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
2 Vesuva
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Polluted Delta
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Bojuka Bog
3 Tropical Island
1 Karakas

Sideboard:
3 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Flusterstorm
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Reclamation Sage
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Swan Song
2 Moment's Peace
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Here's what I've been running online. Very similar to RL's list...I'm liking the ensnaring bridges, although I'm not a fan of warping wail. It has 3 modes...but they're just so narrow. I have a full set of pithing needles (not just good against wasteland!) and a single moment's peace to help out against creature combat. Yeah it folds to storm game 1...but what else is new. Has a much better game against mid-range decks than I thought it would. The variety of must answers pieces is just too solid..ensnaring bridge, show and tell, late game inevitability, it's all here!

Also has surprising game vs elves. Ensnaring bridge for their beat combo, pithing needle for their shaman, multiple moment's peaces to lock them out of the beats, show and telling a titan, explosives for 1 or 2, and an ugin! Lot's of incidental hate!

Running 5 fetches/3 trops because I like the option of shuffling after a top/brainstorm.

SB is built for storm and more creature hate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pdingo

Warping wail is pretty ok..if they counter then ok happens.. if they us theyre pumpspells it's als so fine.
Some times a token can be good also..
But yeh i prefer dismember..
Moments peace is ok..but each of those card have the same problem..it can be countered..that's why i prefer a 1 mana spell like dismember or also submerge if you play blue.. and dont forget crop rotatio .

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Don't forget about Warping Wail's token mode vs Infect. A good Infect player will often cast kicked Vines precombat to get around Maze. If they're using Glistener Elf (or Viridian Corrupter postboard), you can make a surprise chump blocker here. (And they can't Berserk in response because of Vines!) It's saved my life several times.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

Don't forget about Warping Wail's token mode vs Infect. A good Infect player will often cast kicked Vines precombat to get around Maze. If they're using Glistener Elf (or Viridian Corrupter postboard), you can make a surprise chump blocker here. (And they can't Berserk in response because of Vines!) It's saved my life several times.

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Vines still lets them target their own creature, but if you use Wail to exile the creature in response to Vines then Berserk will not save it as its toughness will still be 1.

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Vines still lets them target their own creature, but if you use Wail to exile the creature in response to Vines then Berserk will not save it as its toughness will still be 1.

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This is correct. Vines is like super-hexproof: if for some reason someone cast it on your creature, you can't target that creature, but they still can. You'll have to Wail in response to Vines, or else they will probably just run you over.

Won a monthly this weekend with a slightly modified Gw 12post deck from Ehhh's list.

Round 1 - Lost to Burn in three games. Kept a mediocre 6 on the draw and was punished.
Round 2 - Win against Shardless BUG
Round 3 - Win against UWR Stoneblade including a victory at 1 life.
Round 4 - Win against Sharldess BUG. I did lose a game where I drew Eye of Ugin too early and was forced to discard it to Liliana.
Round 5 - ID with Burn
Top 8 - Destroyed Miracles
Top 4 - Destroyed Miracles again.
Final - Win over Lands.

Completely blanked on how dumb thespian stage is against an opposing dark depths in the finals.

I'm still trying to assess the eldrazi threat. I know it's real, just not many people around are playing it. I'm trying out ensaring bridge / ghostly prison as a two of sideboard to help that matchup out. I'm still not sure that I can empty my hand fast enough to turn on ensnaring bridge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I'm still trying to assess the eldrazi threat. I know it's real, just not many people around are playing it. I'm trying out ensaring bridge / ghostly prison as a two of sideboard to help that matchup out. I'm still not sure that I can empty my hand fast enough to turn on ensnaring bridge.

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If you're worried about Chalice on 1 stopping something like Elephant Grass, you can also try Sphere effects. They rely on quickly vomiting out a hand, and Spheres put a pretty good stop to that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

Won a monthly this weekend with a slightly modified Gw 12post deck from Ehhh's list.

Round 1 - Lost to Burn in three games. Kept a mediocre 6 on the draw and was punished.
Round 2 - Win against Shardless BUG
Round 3 - Win against UWR Stoneblade including a victory at 1 life.
Round 4 - Win against Sharldess BUG. I did lose a game where I drew Eye of Ugin too early and was forced to discard it to Liliana.
Round 5 - ID with Burn
Top 8 - Destroyed Miracles
Top 4 - Destroyed Miracles again.
Final - Win over Lands.

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Some of these might be irrelevant depending on your modifications, but I have some questions:
1) How often does GSZ just sit in your hand? Do you almost immediately cast it for whatever you can get or wait to get to 7 mana?
2) No needles? I imagine the Lands matchup would be incredibly difficult without them.
3) I'm generally curious in how your games vs. Shardless went, as these have been rather difficult for me. Did Thought-Knot play any role?
4) Does CoP:R show up often enough to be relevant against Burn? Two copies seems like too few to me.
5) How did Dawnstrider perform?
6) Why Rest in Peace over Surgical Extraction?

Just a little update on my list:

2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Wasteland
1 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Veteran Explorer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

3 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard:
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Warping Wail
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Krosan Grip
1 Crop Rotation
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Engineered Plague
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Toxic Deluge

Changes to the maindeck:
+1 Deathrite (for acceleration, better manafixing and additional graveyard hate)
+1 Veteran Explorer (helps a lot against aggressive decks, it's either moat or additional ramp. against some other decks it's bad, but overall i think it deserves the spot)
+1 Forest (with Explorer i really want 3 basics in the deck)
+1 Tabernacle (it helps against delver, it's always nice to have against empty the warrens, and it can be randomly very good when you are behind against a lot of decks)

-1 Oracle (had to cut something, still 2 more in the deck)
-1 Crucible (get's a little worse with less oracles, so for now 2 have to be enough)
-1 Savannah (had 2, the Forest takes that spot, didn't really need it)
-1 Sea Gate Wreckage (i really liked that land and wish i could keep it, but overall i think every other utility land is more important, and i can't cut any more colored sources or posts)

The board changed a lot, mostly inspired by other decks in this thread. I tested different cards, right now i'm happy with it.
My winrate is slightly down to just ~2/3 of my matches. That's imo because the xmage meta changed a lot, i was facing a lot more perceived bad matchups - instead of Lands or Death&Taxes now i'm mostly playing against different Delver or Combo Decks. I still think my deck got better, because my bad matchups feel better than before.

Just going by the "Decks to Beat" in this forum, the deck feels very well positioned. Out of the Top 10 Decks just UR-Delver is really bad, BUG Delver and Grixis Delver are slightly unfavorable, everything else is slightly favorable (Storm, Shardless, Eldrazi) or very favorable (Miracles, Death&Taxes, Elves, Sneak&Show) just going by my results (i don't know enough about most of these decks to tell if my opponents just played bad, but i haven't seen many game-changing missplays, and i made a few of these myself). And further down the list in the Top 20 Decks just RUG Delver and Aggro Loam seem slightly unfavorable.

Compared to other 12-Post Decks i think my main advantage is that i can play like a midrange deck. In some matchups i can actually board out my Eldrazi and just ignore the ramp plan. In many traditionally bad matchups for 12-Post that seems to be helping a lot. And even if i don't board the Eldrazi out, i won games against most decks without going the traditional route. There should be a cost to that, but so far i haven't really found it (maybe the mirror, but i'm about 50/50 there too).

I hope at some point other players give it a try, maybe after the GP.

And again. Weekly Legacy event, another undefeated run 4-0 against Miracles, 4cDelver, DnT, BuG Delver. Same list. This list is potent. If you are going to the GP, run this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Another Weekly Legacy event, another undefeated run with u/g post. Here's my list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 1 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage

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Quoted for emphasis and reminder that this list hasn't changed at all.

Been lurking on this page for a bit and testing some of the ideas from this page. I tried out the colorless build and top 4'd the Tampa IQ however I feel there is some more tuning needed on it still so I am taking Rock's UG list to Columbus. I will let you guys know how it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

Won a monthly this weekend with a slightly modified Gw 12post deck from Ehhh's list.

Round 1 - Lost to Burn in three games. Kept a mediocre 6 on the draw and was punished.
Round 2 - Win against Shardless BUG
Round 3 - Win against UWR Stoneblade including a victory at 1 life.
Round 4 - Win against Sharldess BUG. I did lose a game where I drew Eye of Ugin too early and was forced to discard it to Liliana.
Round 5 - ID with Burn
Top 8 - Destroyed Miracles
Top 4 - Destroyed Miracles again.
Final - Win over Lands.

Completely blanked on how dumb thespian stage is against an opposing dark depths in the finals.

I'm still trying to assess the eldrazi threat. I know it's real, just not many people around are playing it. I'm trying out ensaring bridge / ghostly prison as a two of sideboard to help that matchup out. I'm still not sure that I can empty my hand fast enough to turn on ensnaring bridge.

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What do you need Bridge / Ghostly Prison for? I use to play Moat when I had Dark Depths combo it was great.. but then you'd need Basic Plains to fetch

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I've been playtesting Ehhh GW 12post list and I've had great results thus far. The consistence of being basically 1 color is astounding. Right now the only deck that seems like an uphill battle is Eldrazi. At one point there was a list with 2x Moat. In a paper form, that seems almost impossible to acquire. I'm contemplating adding 2x Ghostly Prison in the SB to help slow down the Eldrazi deck. Is that card good enough? I'm shying away from Elephant grass because they play chalice and it's CMC = 1.

*Facepalm* Update: I think Ensnaring Bridge > Ghostly Prison, easier to cast and also gives additional games against lands.

My other issue is freeing up two slots from Ehhh's list. Right now I'm leaning towards cutting the dawnstrider and possibly A. the ethersworn cannonist or B. squeezing the bojuka bog main (somehow) to free up the slot. For these GW builds, how often is ethersworn canonist relavant? I knows a house against multiple spell combo, but seems like the narrowest card in the deck. But you still have to draw it, resolve it and it has to live.

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Yeah if you're struggling vs Eldrazi, Veteran is clearly your first plan (1 or 2 Mana Moat) [They have to Warping Wail it to have a chance of an early kill] - if you resolve Moat the game almost ends on the spot because it will buy you so much time to establish whatever plan you want, maybe buys you 4-5 turns depending on their start. (Borrow the Moats if you can, you don't have to buy them for the GP). If you do go with this plan I'd Suggest Dark Depths. I mean Tabernacle is great vs them also it slows down their ability to play creatures and support the upkeep. Dawnstrider is amazing vs Infect (Piracy Charm is their only out - IF they play it) otherwise it is GG. Also great vs any swarm deck like Elves, Goblins, Merfolk. (Abrupt Decay in elves matchup is usually sided out or highly reduced). I've played Moment's Peace vs Eldrazi and it is just ok... saving a few turns doesn't really do the job. Drop of Honey might be ok? I haven't really tried it vs them (Chalice = X might be a problem) I've won alot of games by Glacial Chasm into Copying w/ Thespian's Stage for extra turns.. that play is so sweet to do vs aggro. Msg me your list and what you're thinking about changing. I haven't been testing this new version yet but I have alot of insight of what was working.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by k_omega

Some of these might be irrelevant depending on your modifications, but I have some questions:
1) How often does GSZ just sit in your hand? Do you almost immediately cast it for whatever you can get or wait to get to 7 mana?
2) No needles? I imagine the Lands matchup would be incredibly difficult without them.
3) I'm generally curious in how your games vs. Shardless went, as these have been rather difficult for me. Did Thought-Knot play any role?
4) Does CoP:R show up often enough to be relevant against Burn? Two copies seems like too few to me.
5) How did Dawnstrider perform?
6) Why Rest in Peace over Surgical Extraction?

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I can explain alot of this too
1. GSZ early is for Veteran, Mid is for Oracle and Lastly Prime Time, the Idea is like playing 7 Prime Times - in This Deck it is like Winning the game if you resolve a Prime Time.
2. Needle is an amazing versatile card, especially when you're expecting wasteland decks - they can obviously disrupt playing land. I noticed I would side out / trim from my builds. I think Pithing Needle is necessary vs Sneak and Show but I haven't played vs that deck much, I have lost to Shardless too often and I wanted to make that matchup much better, more than 50% wasn't cutting it, Needle is a card that always got abrupt decayed. I don't feel it is necessary anymore - Understand the build of this 12 Post, it has 4 Crop rotation vs Wasteland but it also has Basic Lands, you don't necessarily need Cloudpost for the early turns, and that is the main target for wasteland. (also the main reason we play Needle is for wasteland) otherwise it hits random activated permanents that aren't super relevant aside from Sneak Attack and maybe Belcher
3. I'm also curious about how Shardless went, That is the main reason for my tweaks to the deck was to Beat Shardless ..
4. So COP red is in the sideboard because it is tough to beat PoP (Price of Progress) the early game has alot of basics so they don't fire off PoP but with addition of Leyline it buys you time / builds a fortress of hate cards that inevitably provide a cushion to win the game. OBviously Glimmerpost is great when you have these enchantments in play. you can play more CoP Reds, but I found 2 was where I wanted to be, it is only vs Price of Progress decks. (Tough Card to beat for our Deck). Usual Suspects are Burn and Delver Red
5. Dawnstrider is in there vs Elves and Mainly Infect (they have no out to it if you untap) [Also GSZ Target] it is like playing 4 copies
6. RiP is easy to cast in this deck and it is slow down Goyfs and DeathRite Shaman, Surgical can get thought seized or discarded later in the game, where as playing permanents force the issue for an opponent to find an answer to. I much perfer playing Permanents as hate then reacting, So vs Storm when I played UG 12 Post being reactive with Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Trap .. i would just lose my hand from all the discard and still lose... if I play 3-4 different hate cards .. it is much more difficult for them to find all their sideboard bounce / creature removal spell, etc...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

And again. Weekly Legacy event, another undefeated run 4-0 against Miracles, 4cDelver, DnT, BuG Delver. Same list. This list is potent. If you are going to the GP, run this.



Quoted for emphasis and reminder that this list hasn't changed at all.

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This is very tempting to swap to...except I'm not sure I can snag the bridges or 3rd Flusterstorm in time at this point. Plus I've got experience with my white splash. But as soon as I get back I'm swapping to this.

I've been testing Depths in C/g Post for over a month now, and I'm still very unsure about whether I actually like it. Perhaps I'm using it suboptimally, perhaps overcautiously. I never go for the combo in matchups where the opponent has StP or Karakas. I never go for it when Stage is my 3rd Post (or where Eye is online if I find it).

My question for other people who use Depths: how aggressively do you go for the combo, and in what situations/matchups?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

I've been testing Depths in C/g Post for over a month now, and I'm still very unsure about whether I actually like it. Perhaps I'm using it suboptimally, perhaps overcautiously. I never go for the combo in matchups where the opponent has StP or Karakas. I never go for it when Stage is my 3rd Post (or where Eye is online if I find it).

My question for other people who use Depths: how aggressively do you go for the combo, and in what situations/matchups?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I have the same issue in the C/g build. I am never sure when to aggressively search up depths/stage. Every once in a while I will cast titan and search up both lands, which sometimes keeps people for destroying mr. prime time. Still a great question that I am on the fence about, and would love to here some experienced players thoughts.