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I do miss playing with KOTR. He was such a boss 5 years ago. That does open up the option for a mini-land toolbox with Pendelhaven and Horizon Canopy with Bojuka Bog in the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Also, looks like I dodged the Burn matchup for the semifinals so I'm playing Miracles again. :D
I always had mixed results with Bojuka Bog. Sometimes it was good; but it's probably better just having real gravehate that has crossover. Bog served me better against Delve decks, Lands, Jund, and opposing KotR decks; but didn't feel very good (REALLY slow) against Dredge or Reanimator other than accidentally having it naturally and making them restart; but even then.. I'm not so sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
I like the card in theory, but it's a lot better in Crop Rotation decks since it's instant speed T1, instead of in KotR decks where it's instant speed T3/T4.
Hey guys, I was just wondering if anyone here has tested Karlov of the Ghost Council in a gBW DGA shell yet? The incidental DRS and Jitte activations could potentially make it bonkers...
Something I was brainstorming, but haven't tested yet (61 cards still, manabase may be wonky):
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Karlov of the Ghost Council
3 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
Thoughts?
There is definately synergy, but what are you gaining? The cost is good at two mana but if you're activating jitte, solas, or slamming with bskull you're already doing well. I always pictured dga as an equipment deck that uses dorks that provide advantage, ie it doesn't need a goyf to work it has equips to put soul tokens, bob, mystic over the top as threats.
I think testing is great but I'm a bit skeptical. Without evasion or trample this guy will be big but potentially dissapointing. Let us know how it works. I've toyed with the idea of other synergistic adds like Athreos, vizkopa guildmage, high priest of penance, orzhov charm. They all seem to be worse than tidehollow sculler (disruption on legs, another equip target) or something at a higher mana cost (elspeth, sorin of some flavor, hero of bladehold.)
I think you'll need more synergies than that or you'll be playing less optimally. Additionally, what makes him better here than just goyf? You already have access to 12 sources of green including basic forest? Is he better than KotR here? A worriesome point is Karlov promotes suboptimal plays that could result in you skewing your lines for bad things, as in, gain life from DRS to pump 2, they then remove Karlov and never take the extra 2 that DRS could've done. Same with Jitte counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by Offensive_username
Either way, I highlighted what I thought you could trim (even though I think 61 in non blue decks is fine):
-4 Equips is never kosher
-4 of the same Dual is rarely Kosher (I'd rather have a 3/1 with a fetch.) Drawing 3 of the same land sucks
-4 Hymns is a bit OTT because discard (especially Hymn) quickly hits diminishing returns.
-A lot of people run fine on 21 lands. IMO, I've hit a rocky road recently where my 21 lands has started to bite me; though I'm adding more cheap library manipulation to fix it. (Trying Mirri's Guile over Library since I have a lot of 2-drops.) At 61 cards, I could add "half a land" by trimming the 61st card; which is to say; I use it as a way of dividing between my desired land counts
-I think Karlov is best next to Scooze, and probably best as a 2-of
I think the way I'd do that list would be:
-16-
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
2 Karlov of the Ghost Council <-
2 Scavenging Ooze <-
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach <-
3 Vindicate
3 Lingering Souls
1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
<-
-22-
3 Scrubland <-
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs <-
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
Lost to Miracles in the Source tourney; had mana/tempo problems games 2 and 3 and he hit Entreat every game. Vent did some work with a SOFI game 1 though, which was pretty awesome. Not bad for throwing a pile together the night before.
I would expect your list to be favored outside of lucky mid-game entreats. lol@activate + equip; but dealing 6 a turn is no joke. What does your side look like? (basically make sure you have access to Choke, a Pithing Needle effect (probably actual needle), some number of Decay and/or Engineered Explosives, and I like bringing in Bridge against them (Prowess limited to instant speed castings or they can't attack if you're hellbent, and Angels are big.)Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
If doing that you/I should be fine with our batch of recurring evasive beaters to deal with the Jace problem and them with DRS to end it. Keep a good number of enchants post board so you can overload their removal so it hopefully runs dry and you keep Choke/Library/ or blossom on.
Personally, I'd run green for the DRS ability and abrupt decay. I think Scooze gets borderline cute in the maindeck. I could see him as an inclusion for the 75. Otherwise, you're better off going Maverick with Karlov in the mix.Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
Thinking about lifegain, is Vampire Nighthawk still playable? I would rather be on BW with some ability to gain life than spread myself too far for conditional lifegain a la Scooze. I love that little 1G-engine-that-could, but he seems inappropriate here.
No Choke, that's one I forgot to include. He hit the Entreat every game, which was super annoying. I had Revoker (Needle probably better), 4 Decay main, no EE or Bridge. I honestly didn't think of EE against Entreat until now (also great vs. Mentor, but neither of the lists I played against had him).Quote:
Originally Posted by tescrin
The finals ended up being Miracles (dsck, who knocked me out) vs. Mentor Miracles. Grabbing Top 4 for a deck I cobbled together the night before the event is something I'm completely satisfied with. I started picking up some pieces in trades and will work towards building this long-term.
If you're considering running Nighthawk, why not run Drana and pump all yo' dudes. Amiright?
-Matt
So.. sort of. EE is OK but you have leave up mana all the time. It's an out, but most of the time they instant-speed their angels EoT and you just die. I've played with EE a lot over time, even maindecking them instead of Plow in a weird build that was aiming to avoid 2-drop permanents so I could maximize EE against the opponent. (Souls, Knight, DRS, Bob, something as threats)Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
EE is mostly there as Decay #5 in that MU (you can pay the colors to 2 colors, then use the rest of your mana to overload the CMC, making it difficult for Balance to find a card. Same goes for GSZ.) The fact it works against both is neat, but try not to predict what's going on, as they'll play around it while you tax yourself for 2 every turn.
EDIT: @Matt
I don't think Drana or Karlos Mencia are good enough.
VNH has lifelink. Unless I read the card wrong, Drana does not. She's crazy attractive for token strategies though (Lingering/Blossom/Sorin lists). She's also a legend, which would complicate on the Karlov-abusing ideaQuote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Just FYI, I just noticed that we missed the 10th anniversary of this thread/deck by a few days. The thread started on 11/15/2005, and the GP where Pikula got second was two days earlier.
Kind of interesting to think about some tech from the old days, like Cursed Scroll or Gerrard's Verdict. I've played Cursed Scroll, it can be good sometimes, but I think Top is just better as a way of turning on the top of your library.
I miss Gerrard's Verdict. So outclassed anymore. No other card like Cursed Scroll though.
Cursed scroll seems quite usable; it's just that it basically takes a creature slot and often you have to wait until T4 to do anything with it. I loved it in the Pox shell, but until we start running Small Pox, it's a bit difficult to take the patience to work it in.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
That said, it may be fun to brew a tiny bit with DGA + Smallpox (using Souls, Bitterblossom, and/or Bloodghast to support it next to Liliana.) It feels pretty good when you miss your T1 play, they do something like "USea Delver go" or "Plains Mom, go" and you wipe them while dumping a Ghast/Souls in the grave.
Ah Christmas Land, why do I envy you so?
A BW Pox build with Flagstones and Urborgs is probably a lot of fun. I enjoyed it with myth realized in modern
As I recall, there was a build like this a year or two ago that had a reasonable sized Top 8; whenever it was that TNN was the hot new thing and everyone was trying to run 3-drops that were "invulnerable", other capitalized on it between Jund Depths and random pox/etc.. brews.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Played at scg jersey. 0-3 drop. Ugh. Managed to cash at every scg event until now. Lost to miracles, loam and elves. Played a few win a box tournaments, splitting one of them to somewhat salvage the day.
Got to test out Gideon vs miracles at a win a box. It's awesome. Making it 3 abrupt decay in board now.
Hey guys. It seems Painfully Truth is good in three color decks, so can we play it as well?
Right now I don't know what to cut for one Painfull. I don't want my curve to be higher but ZP seems to be the card to cut, if the meat is not pyromancer and elves.
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtseize
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Council's Judgment
1 Hero of Bladehold
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 3 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Kor Firewalker
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
I'd rather have nights whisper personally and I never even came close to playing that.
I played 2 Painful Truths in a goofy list (on previous page) that took 3rd place in the most recent Source Cockatrice tourney. It was awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
Cutting ZP is obviously a meta choice. I'd still leave a copy or two in the board though.
ZP is so good in some matchup, other matchup maybe use to finish the match.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrsthethird
In the meta I am in there is not so many elves or pyro so maybe worth a shot.
I'm hoping to give Legacy another go sometime soon. Here's my list at the moment
4 Deathrite Shama
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sylvan Library
4 Wasteland
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
SB:
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Manriki Gusari
3 Gaddock Teeg
3 Extirpate
1 Karakas
2 Zealous Persecution
3 Choke
1 [open slot]
I've historically had a really hard time with Shardless BUG. I'd like to devote my last SB slot to beating it. I'm considering Lingering Souls, Painful Truths, and Nahiri.
Also, I have a hard time judging how to sideboard against them in general: I know to sideboard in Choke, Sword, and whatever is in my last slot, but I'm not sure what to cut post-board. Anyone have input for that last slot and for sideboarding strategies?
Souls and Mirran Crusader is really goog against Shardless BUG. Mirran is unblockable against BUG. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
First; this is more of a Junk list (Goyfs) so you may get more help there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
I'll point out that with 8 Discard and only 1 library management bit, you have reasonable early game disruption but are really reliant on Confidant to fix your draws for you (IME, unlikely against most decks.) I think the BSK looks bad here and the lack of a SoFaI, SoFaF, and SoLaS is weird and probably bad. (I think if going this still, I'd drop the BB cards and move to Dark Maverick (Bob + KotR + stuff.))
These things explain your issues with Shardless. They have long game, and your early game doesn't mess with them a ton. SoFaI, for example, is unblockable except for DRS/Goyf and provides repeatable removal and blocks Jace's bounce.
Siege Rhino is great in long games against blue decks with Jace. If there's a lot of BUG in your meta, you could even consider Obstinate Baloth to combat their discard. Bitterblossom is great and demands an answer. If they're Decaying it, that's one less answer for your big threats and equipment. Lingering Souls too. You don't even care much if Hymn eats it.
Karakas is odd without KOTR. It's a nice card, but without tutoring for it it's hardly going to be worth praying to draw it. What is Teeg for? You have strong early disruption against combo, so I don't feel that's necessary. Cutting those gives you more room for BUG
SOLS and SOFI are much better in this shell than Batterskull. The reason why BS is so good is that he provides a body. You have plenty (especially if you go for Lingering Souls or BB).
Has anyone here tested out Death's Shadow? Any feedback on it's performance?
Yeah. I probably have a Deaths Shadow Ale list in this thread somewhere. It's super fun. I'd play a Varolz or two. I got to 1 shot someone after scavenging Deaths Shadow on Varolz then suit him up with a SOFAI and 19 my opponent. His regeneration ability is fun with expendable souls tokens and his scavenge ability is good to pump up the souls tokens as well. Also you get dismember and snuff out as solid cheap removal
List I found:
4 Deathrite
4 Deaths Shadow
3 Stoneforge
4 Bob
2 Revoker
1 Varolz
2 STP
2 Dismember
2 Orzhov Charm
4 Thoughtseize
3 Liliana
1 SoFaI
1 Jitte
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Vindicate
2 Lingering Souls
4 Scrubland
1 Godless Shrine
1 Bayou
1 Overgrown Tomb
9 Fetches
3 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Plains
Orzhov Charm is cool too return dead deaths shadows and double as removal that makes you lose life
I never thought a mana base like this would ever make sense in Legacy, but goddamn it, it works!Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Hi,
What about this new card :
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/...0598774304.png
It seems pretty good :
- it's cheap
- sac-engine
- make you gain life
- got Deathtouch and nice body : 2/3 Deathtouch for CCM 2
- the second ability may be irrelevant but can be nice when we're in the late game
Nope ?
Pilgrim is a decent card. But I really don't see where it fits in or better yet what do you cut? The whole spoiler came out and while I do see a few potential cards for Legacy, none for this deck.
Played at FNM today. 4-0 to win a Foil Daze. The only deck I really play blue is EDH. It's a foil EDH deck (well, I try to foil it out) but I only really play multiplayer so daze......not so good there.
Beat 4 color Delver, Shardless, Miracles and blue/white/red Delver blade. Lingering Souls and Sword of Fire and Ice were the MVP's today. Cast Shriekmaw twice. Once to evoke to kill a Delver. The other hardcast for 5 to kill a Tarmogoyf. Oh and if someone wants to see the decklist..... it's on Starcitygames and on tcdecks.net. I'm always tweaking sideboards but maindeck is the same.
Nice! Souls and SoFaI were almost always the best cards in the deck in any fair matchup.
Long time Deadguy, first time poster on TheSource.
I've never settled on a list but my best/largest finish was 32nd place @SCGOpenKnoxville2014 with the Following:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
1 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
2 Bayou
1 Polluted Delta
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Humility
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 1 Crucible of Worlds
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
SB: 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
I'm going to a small local tournament (Tampa FL, 2Hrs, ~20 People) tomorrow and have resolved to play two main-deck Dark Ritual for experiment/fun. I remember didn't people think T1 Liliana might be a thing for a bit after her printing? I know Chrome Mox and Mox Diamond are more in favor as well as having some recent results.
I've got a working list with the Rituals and some other stuff added/cut and shifted around between the Sideboard etc. Comments/advice about this plan as well as rehashing of the initial T1 Ritual -> Liliana discussion (or directions to find it) are appreciated.
Congrats! We may have seen each other. That was the event I got T8 with Deadguy.
I like the idea of rituals. I'm definitely interested in how they work. Being able to cast and equip a sword a turn before your opponent is ready is interesting to me with it. T1 Liliana can certainly win games. I'm not sold on how much better it would be than chrome mox but it's worth testing
Give it a shot with Dark Ritual. If it works, great. If not then at least we'll know for sure. I would suggest updating your list to find a way to put in Abrupt Decay somewhere in 75 as Miracles is an annoying deck to deal with.
I'm personally happy with running 4 Deathrites and 2 Chrome Moxes as my acceleration.
Just got back from a 24 man tournament. Went 4 wins and a draw in swiss. I was top seed in the top 8 and Won twice and split finals and gave my opponent the win since winner gets entry into the main event where I'm at....and it's not Legacy so I didn't care.
Faced 3 Sneak Show opponents in the swiss and an infect player (ID vs Miracles in last round of swiss). Yeah, a weird meta. At one point vs Sneak Show I had Gaddock Teeg, Containment Priest, Sword of Fire and Ice on Priest and a Karakas in play. :D I also got to Shriekmaw an Emrakul off of a Show and Tell. Haven't done that in a while. He later asks how many Shriekmaws I run, he doesn't feel quite as bad when he finds out I run 2.
Hi guys!
I came top4 in 37 man tourment. Here is the list:
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19317&iddeck=146884
I won agisnt Mircals, Infect, Aggro Loam, Food Chain before top 8.
Draw to Shardless BUG and lost to Infect.
Won first to merfolk with 4 Truename and 4 Voids.
Lost to the same infect player in semifinals, he won the whole tourment.
Ran the following:
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Bitterblossom
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Dark Ritual
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
2 Bayou
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bloodstained Mire
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
SB: 2 Tidehollow Sculler
SB: 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
SB: 1 Sword of Fire and Ice
SB: 1 CoP Red
Dark Ritual was bad for me. The "make dark ritual do something" minigame felt like a 2nd opponent.
Hit T1 DR + Liliana twice in 4 rounds (13 players). Once vs Lands and once vs Storm. Liliana was not great vs Lands but I could have done better with it. Against storm I decided to Enlightened Tutor into T2 Ethersworn instead, accidentally shutting off the DR.
Lost to Shardless - Butchered SDT game one. 0-2
Lost to Storm - Ethersworn canonist got abrupt decayed. 0-2
Beat Lands - Bitterblosson MVP 2-1
Lost to Food Chain - STP not so great vs Misthollow Griffin. 1-2
Was a good time. I'm going to fit 3 Scullers and the Bitterblossom into the main. Dark Ritual certainly would become better with practice and sample size but no thanks.
You realize you only have 2 pieces of Equipment with 4 SFM maindeck, right? In a non-Brainstorm shell, I'd shove the SoFI in the main, and consider cutting the Batterskull, but that's preference. I'd also consider Cabal Therapy in the deck, considering you make literally infinite tokens. Perhaps 3/3/3 Thoughtseize/Therapy/Hymn split? Your 2-slot is a tad heavy. I suggest:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauzich
4 SFM
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Dark Confidant
1 Drana
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Bitterblossom
3 Lingering Souls
3 Equipment
4 STP
1 Zealous Persecution
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
21 Lands
2 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Rest in Peace
1 Equipment (Feast and Famine?)
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I like the the list you are suggesting with minor exceptions. Iīd like to know your stance on those:
- Abrupt decay feels pretty mandatory maindeck in the current meta. And even if you donīt encounter a deck, that makes abrupt decay a necessitiy, there arenīt many decks against which it is entirely useless either. So why only have them in the sb?
- Bittblossom feels slow. While Iīd name that card my one favorite magic card if I were asked, I just found it to produce pressure a turn too late to be viable. What match ups or situations do you have in mind to pack two of those maindeck?
- Isnīt 2 tops and a library overkill?
- Isnīt 9 discards overkill, especially since we probably can make good use of therapyīs flashback and especially since you cut one of the Confidants?
- How many green sources do you play, seeing that you use library and decay?
- and out of personal interest, since I havenīt had time to play a lot lately: How is Drana holding up?
Looks similar to my recent build.
I didn't like Drana. She's cute with all the tokens but it felt win-more.
Bitterblossom was amazing. Never felt too slow for me; part of it is acknowledging that the deck can play a grindy role and the enchantment makes that very easy. It's a strong turn 2 play that frequently doesn't have a maindeck answer other than Decay. Matchups: Miracles, Lands, Jund, Shardless, anything that we can take our time against (or that will take a while to kill us)
In light of BB and Bob, I'd caution against Thoughtseize. IOK fills a similar role without costing us two life. (I ran Painful Truths too, so that definitely adds more self-pain). Therapy is the nuts though; you get so much edge from that card with format knowledge and reading opponents. The token abuse is just gravy.
I ran Decay and Library as my green cards as well. I was able to manage with 1 Bayou and 1 Savannah and possibly a basic Forest for insurance, but that may have not been necessary. DRS helps us with those too.