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Congratulations! I have been wondering if a rework of the Miracles shell with Standstill over Counterbalance could be a winning idea with the proliferation of Abrupt Decay. You played against at least 4 decay decks, it looks like (not sure about Grixis/Maverick). Very cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by B88
Hey guys, little update list here for UWr Landstill
GP winner Claudio Bonanni won Italian Legacy Championship again this time with a swet Standstill deck.
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com/take-your-time/
Hope you all like it!
Sib
Hi,
I tried the Bonanni's list with little changes for my LGS. Here it is:
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
3 Island
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Standstill
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Wear // Tear
SB: 1 Kozilek's Return
SB: 2 Counterbalance
Generally I think that the move from Counterbalance to Standstill is a worth trying. Abrupt Decay is due to Sultai popularity one of the key cards these days. But there are some issues that must be solved and I am working on them:
1) Colorless lands and manlands sometimes can be tricky, so I decided to get rid of Faerie Conclave and put it antoher Fetchland. I am not sure if 3 Mishra's Factory are enough, but I try it.
2) Missing Counterbalance is sometimes very paining, especially in mirror with Miracles. I am looking for cards that could improve this matchup, which seems on paper better than it is in real.
3) In traditional Miracles, players are adapting to the "Sultai Shift" with adding Predicts and cutting one Counterbalance. Therefore, we must find a consistent concept of this deck, which can be a powerful alternative for the classic Miracles.
I hope this thread will help us to adapt this deck for current metagame.
How about this beast?
Deck: Legacy Esper Replenishstill.dec
Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard
Spells:37
4 Brainstorm
2 Dead Weight
4 Myth Realized
1 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterbalance
4 Standstill
2 Engineered Plague
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Replenish
4 Force of Will
Lands:23
2 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
3 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
2 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Counterbalance
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Aura of Silence
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oppression
1 The Abyss
Created with Decked Builder
http://www.deckedbuilder.com/
Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk
I've been playing around with UWbg LandStill, inspired by landstillmaniac:
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Mishra's Factor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
1 Life from the Loam
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Wasteland
2 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Containment Priest
1 Golgari Charm
I Top 8'd a GPT for Vegas the other week with a similar list, losing to Miracles in the quarter finals.
Since Miracles has gone, I feel there is less of a need for Abrupt Decay and more for cheap removal, so I've replaced the Decays with Fatal Pushes. Also, I feel that Elves and TNN decks will become more prominent, so I put in a Golgari Charm, which has the added bonus of being live against Sneak and Show. Finally, I feel weak to Eldrazi, so I added an extra Dismember.
What are people's thoughts on removing Decay? It's great that it's uncounterable, but the two mana, plus the Green mana, makes it less attractive now that CB has gone.
Further, what are people's thoughts between Crucible of the Worlds and Life from the Loam? I like both but particularly like that Loam is immune to Decay, which inevitably hits Crucible immediately.
Edit: If you've never tried Gideon, Ally of Zendikar in Landstill, you haven't lived. I never thought I'd say another White planeswalker is better than Elspeth, but I think Gideon is.
Played around with the numbers a bit, to try and strengthen the Eldrazi and Elves matchups.
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Mishra's Factor
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce
2 Counterspell
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
1 Life from the Loam
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
1 Marsh Flats
2 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Wasteland
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Dismember
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Containment Priest
1 Golgari Charm
Leaving the Abrupt Decay main gives you three outs to Chalice on 1 (EE, Deed, and Decay) and four postboard (extra decay) plus the Dismembers to diversify your removal around it. I hope that improves the Eldrazi matchup. Golgari Charm gets the nod against Elves while having utility against Sneak and Show/Omnishow and TNN decks. I can't really touch the Surgicals, Flusters, and Cliques because the deck is glacially slow and therefore weak against combo, but I cut the Pithing Needle which was primarily for Sensei's Divining Top and therefore no longer as useful.
Now I just have to work on actually being able to play Magic.
The Golgari Charm has already paid off, destroying a Sneak Attack where my opponent was tapped out. An Abrupt Decay would have been useless there. I feel it's a good addition and it's staying for the time being.
After Miracles ban, there's an empty slot for draw-go deck. I developed the follow list. Standstill has the potential to replace the card selection of sensei's top with card advantage, and also from turning a small advantage into a bigger one.
UWR Landstill
// 60 Main deck
// 1 Artifact
1 Engineered Explosives
// 4 Creature
4 Snapcaster Mage
// 6 Enchantment
4 Standstill
1 Blood Moon
1 Humility
// 16 Instant
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Counterspell
// 22 Land
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
3 Polluted Delta
// 3 Planeswalker
1 Elspeth, Knight Errant (Or Ajani Vengeant; or Gideon, Ally of Zendikar; or Chandra, Torch of Defiance).
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// 8 Sorcery
3 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgment
4 Ponder
// 15 Sideboard
SB: 3 Meddling Mage
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 1 Ethersworn canonist
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Kozilek's Return
Main deck choices:
- Blood moon is for the surprise factor, and to brake the inevitability of Eye of ugin or Lands.
- Packed lot of removals. The historical problem of this deck was with quick threats, but we may let some threats land the battlefield.
- Still in doubt about the second lightning bolt: maybe should play 3 counterspell or 4 supreme verdicts?
Sideboard:
- Meddling mage over vendilion clique against combo decks: vendilion works very well with counterbalance, but now meddling mage is a better option against combo.
- Playing 3 Pyro... Maybe 4? 2 wear / tear?
Some options:
- Ensnaring Bridge (weak against decay and flicker)
- Decree of justice (slow)
- Elpeth, Knight-errant
- Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
- Chandra, Torch of Defiance
- Ajani Vengeant (slow)
- 2/1 sfm + 1 batterskull + 0/1 umezawa's jitte (weak against decay).
- Pithing needle (wasteland, thespian stage, vial?)
Myth Realized deserves an honorable mention in a shell with Humility, as does Stoneforge Mystic + equipment. Also, Lingering Souls could be good in an Esper version.
I'm curious if something like this could be viable going forward:
U/W Landstill
Lands (24)
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
4 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
Creatures (0)
Spells (36)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Standstill
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Path to Exile
2 Supreme Verdict
2 Humility
2 Engineered Explosives
Maybe butcher the mana a bit for a red splash for Red Blasts in the board, maybe a black splash for Zealous Persecution or Toxic Deluge.
I can see Storm being a bad matchup, so there would definitely need to be ample hate in the board. Humility would be getting cut (along with all of the other removal), so hatebears are probably the direction to go. Vendilion Clique, Canonist/Priest, Prelate, Meddling/Snapcaster Magi, etc.
Aggro and aggro/control matchups should be decent, or maybe not and this pile is simply too weak and slow to compete in Modern Legacy. Just curious how others feel about this sort of archetype now that Miracles is gone.
EDIT: Forgot to include the Standstills. Fixed.
EDIT2: It would need to splash a third color for Engineered Explosives. Also, maybe the list should run some number of Council's Judgment main, possibly instead of Path to Exile. Also, I'm dying to toss some Vedalken Shackles in the sideboard.
We can build a myriade of decks with landstill. In legacy, people used to play the Suffocate role, like UR Landstill with 4 wastelands, 4 stifles and plenty of soft counters: i like this version, but this (in my vision) is not hard control.
On the other hand, UW(x) versions have better tools to play the hard control role - and i really think that landstill may take the former miracles place as the best hard control of legacy (so good as). That said, i don't think we need to play wastelands anymore or even 5 manlands: you need this when we are trying to pressure opponent's life total while disrupting his/her manabase.
Well.. I don't believe that any splash will help us more than the red splash, for the same reasons that miracles players used to stick on this version (and not esper or anything else): REB is way too strong on legacy, not to mention all the other strong cards that come along with reb, like blood moon (and the protection against this card) or wear/tear.
Also, Humility is in a very good place right now, with plenty of decks depending of creatures to win.
All that said, in my opinion, i think the UW version is just a worse version of the UWR and i think that the list i posted above is where we may continue developing this wonderful archetype.
About your list, i would add 4 snapcasters (we dont care if they die; we have to be happy everytime someone bolts, plows or decays him). I would add at least one councils judgement and one back to basics (if UWR, blood moon is better - on future, maybe only at sideboard). I would play 3 supreme verdicts.
And like you, i'm also in doubt about elspeth or gideon... About Sideboard, i would use meddling mage instead of vendilion clique, because the first may protect us with hardlock.. I'm using 3 meddling mages and 1 ethersworn canonist. Maybe we could try sanctum prelate, but i really think a well played meddling mage is just better.
About the impressions of my list, i'm realizing that Eldrazi is one of the toughest matchups.
I think both red and black offer good options. It really depends on the perceived meta.
Black offers Creeping Tar Pit and Fatal Push for the maindeck with various useful sideboard options like Engineered Plague. Lingering Souls is also decent, and plays extremely well with Humility.
Red is likely better, but I wouldn't dismiss the black splash so easily.
I like the idea of trying Nahiri + fatty, but that doesn't play nicely with Humility.
Also, I didn't put any Snapcasters in the list because of the anti-synergy with Humility. Snapcaster is a very strong card, no doubt, but I'm not sure that it's something that the deck needs. I could very well be wrong, I dunno.
I don't think I can afford to play Back to Basics with manlands. Wasteland seems much better suited. I'm fine with running 2 Wastelands instead of 2 other business spells because I want to be able to deal with utility lands, and making consistent land drops under Standstill is important.
EDIT: I could also see cutting 2 removal spells and the two white Planeswalkers for 4 Myth Realized. That could help the Storm matchup by giving this deck a clock. The Planeswalkers could go into the sideboard and come in for thr grindier matchups.
Maybe like...
-1 Elspeth
-1 Gideon
-2 Path to Exile
-1 EE
+4 Myth Realized
+1 Council's Judgment
I dunno...
Myth realized dies to decay, fatal push, swords AND wear/tear, disenchant, K grip, reclamation sage... This version already have good matchup against Ant (manlands, meddling mages, 4 snapcasters, 3 flusters, 2 surgicals, ethersworn...). Snap + fluster on grave is what we want.
We dont need to be so linear (with humility, no snapcaster; with manlands, no b2b). Per example, you play humility only after grind opponent resources with snapcaster; on ANT matchup, you need snapcaster, but side out humility; you play b2b only if it will win the match (against eldrazi, lands, some sort of delvers, nobleblade...). Also, i think that one nonblue planeswalker is good, to avoid REB.
Agree with what has been said.
UWR feels superior to UW.
Here's what i'm currently testing.
Main
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Standstill
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Keranos, God of Storms
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Wasteland
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
Sideboard
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Containment Priest
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
3 Flusterstorm
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
2 Pyroclasm
Comments
1) 4 bolts seem necessary, given the numerous Deathrites around, and our high reliance on Snapcaster mage for card quality.
2) Having that many 1 mana removal makes Standstill a more reliable turn 2 play. - however, Standstill is too clunky as a 4 of.
3) Clique only feels good against Storm / Combo & other hard control decks (which aren't going to be common moving forward), so let them in the side.
4) Deck is very slow. Controlling board isnt overly difficult, but closing out games are.
5) i really want to squeeze in a blood moon somewhere in the 15, but not sure if its necessary
6) Initally tested the deck with Mishra's factory, but dropped them. Fatal push and wastelands makes them really poor.
Matchups - compared to miracles (n=30)
1) Burn is a horrible matchup.
2) Eldrazi is still bad.
3) Infect is much easier.
4) Delver matchup feels 50-50. The bolts helps significantly. Wastelands give random wins. BUG feels easier than Grixis. Pyroclasm off the board makes alot of difference.
5) True Name Nemesis is an absolute pain, and is a must counter
6) Storm is not a horrible matchup. 4 bolts and snapcaster mage significantly weakens their Ad Nauseum. they have to respect bolt, SCM, bolt.
7) For some reason, have not come across Sneak Show.
LS necro FTW! :laugh:
I think we should carefully brainstorm about the changes the international meta will undergo with Miracles being "banned", before pumping out lists that seem nice in a vacuum.
Some essential questions:
* What archetypes will benefit from Miracles absence, meaning whom will we face more than before? And what does that mean for our card choices?
* What will change about the tier 1 MDs?
* What topics need to be evaluated for the intermediate phase, while the dust is still settling?
* How can we benefit from the current chaos?
* How will the general meta develop in the long run?
Some assumptions:
* With Terminus gone, Aggro will certainly see a revival, making 4 MD sweepers mandatory.
* All decks will up their anti-Aggro slots, which is good for us!
* With CB gone, formerly frustrated, semi-talented Combo pilots will dust off their pet decks. Not sure what that means for us though (MD Clique?)
* Decks that preyed on Miracles will go down in numbers, or at least remodel their MDs.
* tbc
Have to run, but will be back soon! Let's collect assumptions and discuss away!
What am I missing? Are you really suggesting playing standstill just to take a breath, hope that your opponents breaks it and doesn't play manland himself?Quote:
Originally Posted by KZhang
As for fatal push making Mishras look bad, when I played landeed back in the 2011, I usually started attacking in late game, either when I had a standstill in play and could afford losing a couple mana, or the opponent was hellbent...
Landstill without mishras is like miracles without top. In some matchups we do not really want landstill, like lands or even d&t, but mishra's...
Save the Proletarian army (assembly-workers =P)!
That is so untrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanogs
Most decks in legacy need to take initiative to win. Take Delver for example. If you bolted his delver on turn 1, and landed a Standstill on turn 2. Do you really think we need manlands to pressure them to break it?
If we needed pressure, can we not EOT snapcaster, STP his only creature and then cast Standstill? Not once in the 30 or so games i've played have i needed to break it myself.
Unless you are playing LftL, manlands are very bad in the current meta. Crucible is very unreliable due to Abrupt Decay.
Well, sorry for being direct but you may create another topic to talk about lonely standstill.dec, but here is landstill and we must assume that the deck contains manlands :)
Even if mishra's gets wastelanded, they protect our manabase to keep controlling. When they are not, they provide cheap pressure.
I also think that crucible is not so good right now (maybe i would play him on the mana denial plan, with 4 stifles and 4 wastelands).
I have been testing and playing Landstill even in the years when Miracles was the clearly superior choice of blue control because I used to be so fond of the card Standstill and because I usually don't follow whatever the current mainstream (Miracles) is, but in a realistic assessement one would have to concede that with the powerlevel this format has reached, one simply cannot afford to play cards like Standstill that represent no answer to opponent's threats or do not alter the game state significantally otherwise especially since the range of strategies you have to be able to deal with is so wide. On top of that, manlands more than often seemed more of a disadvantage to me because mana stability is so crucical for cost-intensive decks like this one. I'm sincerely convinced that straight U/W Control with Jace and Fact or Fiction (!) as sources of CA is superior to any approaches with Standstill in todays enviroment. You guys should search this forum for the respective thread of the user 'Iron_Buddha' who came with some highly potent concepts almost 4 years ago.
I'm not too familiar with today's legacy though and I certainly don't want to discourage you guys from developing this deck, Standstill after all can still be effective at times.
Since the conceptional brainstorm I suggested does not seem to be of interest, here's a straight UW list featuring Delver. I'm sure he was discussed before. Here's what I like about him:
* makes turn 2 Standstill more reliable, since you can drop it on top of basically any turn one and most turn two creatures our opponents may cast.
* introduces an additional angle of attack that makes it tricky for opponents to interact/SB
* helps close games - especially relevant against Combo
* is on-color, pitchable to FoW
* can easily be deployed between Standstills, and thus helps "getting rid of" excess cards we otherwise might have to discard (a scenario happening far too often)
4 Delver
4 SCM
2 Clique
4 Standstill
4 BS
4 STP
4 SV
4 FoW
3 Snare
3 CS
2 Jace
(38)
8 Fetch
4 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Factory
(22)
SB:
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
3 Terminus
3 Flusterstorm
2 Canonist
2 BeB
I don't get what the point of your list is to be honest. How reliable is Delver with only 22 cards that trigger it? How does it contribute in any way to the control plan of the deck? You suggested that if introduces a different angle of attack, helps to close games and to improve combo MUs but that is already accomplished with Clique and Snapcaster in a much for adequate way because they actually fit into the decks plan. How is it in any way reconcilable with Supreme Verdict?
I'm aware that we shouldn't think to conservatively with this deck and not only stick to what Landstill lists used to look like in 2006 or whatever. Im also aware that it's sometimes pretty hiliarous and also strong to simply mix different deck strategies and plans (like you did imo) because people seem to be incapable to cope with such unexpected situations but a Landstill list with Delver doesn't convince me honestly. How did it turn out for you?
I want to try some old school fun:
3 Jace, TMS
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Snapcaster Mage
7
4 STP
3 Supreme Verdict
2 Decree of Justice
9
4 Humility
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
22
3 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland
22
//BOARD//
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Flusterstorm
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Disenchant
2 Exalted Angel (since I want to)
That's an awful list to be honest. It's way too packed in the high CC area while you only run 22 lands and merely 4 Stops to survive the early game. It needs way more early removal and most importantly has to be thinned out in the high cc area.
Of course it's awful, that's why I posted it. I said I wanted to try some old school Landstill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa
Yes but even the oldschool lists had a better balance of high and low CC or early and lategame cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
Hey all,
I'm a legacy noob, so bear with me. I decided I want to get into Legacy, and I wanted to play with these Jaces I already have as well as the new Gideon, so here I am. If y'all could offer any constructive criticism on my list, I'd appreciate it.
//Artifacts
2 Engineered Explosives
//Enchantments
4 Standstill
2 Humility
//Planeswalker
2 Gideon of the Trials
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
//Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
//Sorceries
3 Ponder
2 Supreme Verdict
// Lands
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mess
3 Island
2 Plains
Sideboard still in progress. Currently looking at some number of the following Rest in Peace, Containment Priest, Hallowed Moonlight, Disenchant, Sunlance, Gut Shot, Crucible of Worlds, Dust Bowl, Elspeth. Flusterstorm too, but I don't own any.
Any SB recommendations would be great. Am I crazy with the third wasteland? Is Gideon of the Trials fine? I know he dies to Abrupt Decay, but how big of a deal is that?
Thanks!
After 121 matches playing (+- 100 on cockatrice and the rest IRL) i'm currently with these statistics:
Matches: 121
Wins: 75 (62%)
Loss: 45 (37%)
Draw: 1 (1%)
Total Games: 297
Wins: 170 (57%)
Loss: 127 (43%)
I'm playing currently with the following list:
/// MD - 60:
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Standstill
1 Humility
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council's Judgment
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Terminus
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Arid Mesa
3 Polluted Delta
/// SB:
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 1 Grim Lavamancer
SB: 1 Wear // Tear
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 From the Ashes
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge ***
Major changes:
- Terminus over Supreme Verdict: Delver turned out to be a harder game than expected, especially Grixis-Stifle versions, when get 1wwu is VERY hard. More, with terminus we can clean the board and play standstill in the same turn.
- 2 TNNs in: TNN help us against delver, eldrazi and is the best way to win G1 against any punishing fire deck. More, we can change sides a little bit, playing with pressure when needed. This guy is fucking crazy in this control shell.
- One more bolt, one less sweeper: with 2 TNNs, think that we may play with only 2 terminus alongside 3 lightning bolts and 4 swords to plowshares. This factorial division is working great.
- Blood moon out and one less planeswalker: although blood moon's individual card power and the advantages of a nonblue planes, opting now for 2 TNN.
Side:
- Vendilion Cliques in; Meddling Mages out: when developing the first version, i thought that with the lack of counterbalance lock we would need some hard answer against ANT, Sneak and show etc. I actually found that our matchup against combo is already very good, and the versatility of Vendilion Clique gives us more edge on other matches, like death and taxes (where we need to side out standstill).
- From the Ashes over Blood Moon: Just played the last 15 matches with this card and i'm really liking.
- Grim lavamancer: Changed because pyroclasm or kozilek's return would kill our creatures too. And i'm really liking, specially against delver (hard matchup), infect and d&t.
- One flex slot: currently i'm playing ensnaring bridge (eldrazi and sneak and show), but this is a flex slot: pithing needle (d&t, shaman, sneak and show), ethersworn canonist (burn, elves, ant, high tide, food chain), sudden demise (elves, delver, d&t) or submerge (marit lage, infect, delver). Maybe Rest for the weary or Timely reinforcements (burn, ur delver). At the moment: Blessed Alliance (burn, eldrazi, sneak and show, tnn, reanimate).
Still trying to find some place to faerie conclave, but don't know which land take out: 1) i don't want to play under 3 islands and 2 plains; 2): i don't know if 7 fetches will impair the stability; and 3) i don't know if 3 mishra's-1 faerie is better, and i was trying to play with 5 manlands.
Great matchups:
- ANY midrange;
- Combos;
- Czech pile (i'm 8-1).
Hard matchups:
- Grixis Delver (maybe with the currently list this will change)
- Eldrazi
When side out Standstill:
- D&T;
- Goblins;
- Lands (all 4 standstills out);
- BG Depths (all 4 standstills out);
- Infect;
- Delver, when on draw.
http://i.imgur.com/SBZpxXU.jpg
Join the still! Take your time. Pass.
Great analysis so far! Could you elaborate on the rationale behind siding out all 4 Standstills against the Lands/BG Depths. Aren't they still live against the Lands player trying to cast Loam/Punishing Fire, etc? Against the other decks that you're not siding out all the Standstills, how many are you taking out and what's the reasoning behind it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanogs
BG Depths and, specially, Lands may just draw thespian + dark depths and we will be obligated to break the still :s. Lands is even worse, because plays wasteland and rishadan port (tap manland). We take care of punishing fire and loam with Vendilion and Surgical (=Quote:
Originally Posted by koten
- For the same reason we side out against infect (inkmoth and pendelhaven).
- For the same reason we side out some number against d&t and goblins (port + wasteland).
Against Delver, on draw, is just because we need, first, to survive and just then we may think about card advantage.
So... Against D&T, Goblins and Delver, there are just some better cards on sideboard, ex.:
D&T:
- Out: -2 counterspell, -3/4 standstill
- In: +1 wear/ tear, +2 vendilion clique, +1 grim lavamancer, +1 containment priest and +0/1 flex slot (pithing needle, izzet staticaster, another lavamancer etc). Currently, i take out 3 standstills.
Grixis Delver (with Stifle), on Draw:
- Out: -2 Counterspell, -4 standstill, -2 Jace, TMS, -2 fow
- In: +3 Flusterstorm, +2 Pyroblast, +1 REB, +1 Grim lavamancer, +2 vendilion clique, +1 from the ashes
You're not finding Humility awkward while running TNN and no token producing planeswalker?
Humility is the best card against sneak and show, death and Taxes, Aluren, food chain, Maverick, Goblins, lands, 4c loam, merfolk.
Well, we play with Brainstorm, so you may shuffle away humility when you don't want it. It's a "nombo" with tnn, but the deal is: I lose TNN, but I win the game (damn, just lost The Game).
With TNN I already reduced to only 2 sweepers, so I don't think we need to do further adjustments.
More, humility is still great without Elspeth, because it is already strong with manlands. Humility is great even with Snapcaster.
No argument that Humility is a great card, just that it may be awkward at times with the TNN/Snapcaster game. But I guess if they spend resources to beat the TNN/Snapcaster game, you just slam Humility.
^This!Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosque
Miracles is starting to make a splash again. Do you think Landstill is still the better control deck when compared to the current iterations of Miracles?
Yes, i do!
How badly do you think you need Volc #3? Maybe shave one for the conclave?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefanogs
Ho guys.
After sdt ban i've decidet to try Uwr landstill and, so far, i've had a lot of fun playing it.
The problem here is that i'am having an hard time here: the deck it's far from "easy", expecially for a former Miracles player who's not use to use resource properly...
My list it's something near to what i reded in this primer, but i wuoud love to hear some thougts from an experience player
http://zelgadis.altervista.org/_alte...standstill.JPG
I've used some old ideas in this post; i realyzed that it's probably outdated but i tryed anyways.
So far i've loved the Tutor, but i'am open minded.
It's pretty far out from what is normally posted here, but I think I'm going to try something like this out this weekend at my monthly
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Birds of Paradise
3 Renegade Rallier
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Shardless Agent
2 Vendillion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 STP
2 JTMS
3 Force of Will
3 Standstill
2 Trop
2 Savannah
1 Tundra
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Island
8 Fetch
3 Waste
3 Factory
Haven't decided on the SB yet, but we'll see. I mostly want to live the dream and Rally back a dead standstill or shardless into it. I need to figure out the last few slots. Might be pridemages, might be terrible urza's baubles, I don't know yet. Any suggestions?
Cut the dorks and play 4 mox diamonds and a couple more manlands for t1 Standstill? Maybe Faerie Conclave/reach guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I'm obsessed with doing that at some point. Also finding space for a crop rotation package and/or Teferi's Response for when they stp your factory. And Loam or Crucible.