[Deck] Solidarity

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Don't do this. Go off with the Brainstorm trigger form Jace on the stack. Is way funnier when their own card kills them.

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LOL! I've actually pulled this one off once in my local shop. Had some spectators who pretty much went wild when they saw me do the play.

On Fluster/MTrap/Pact; they're all situational and pretty much depend on your MD which ones you would want in your SB. Benthetenor pretty much gave all reasons.

Fluster protects Hymn/Duress and is very good as a 2nd or 3rd counter in the counterwar and hits multiple targets.
Mindbreak Trap needs activation before it can be played.
Pact is a good counter but requires you to tap out on next turn (if there is any).

I prefer Flusterstorm in SB.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Don't do this. Go off with the Brainstorm trigger form Jace on the stack. Is way funnier when their own card kills them.

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Not just funnier, but much easier, too. And that is certainly a valid play. I'd just worry that they might fateseal something away instead that I need if the Jace does resolve. If I've got the ability to kill them in response to a Jace, I'd rather not leave anything to chance, though, admittedly, there's not much that they'll be able to do that will keep me from just killing them end of turn with the same lands tapped down.

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Originally Posted by tsabo_tavoc

Against blue control, I would like to have 4 Flusterstorm and 4 Pact of Negation, the problem is obviously sideboard space.

What is the opinion on our cantrips beside 4 Brainstorm, 1cc (Thoughtscour, Opt) or 2cc (Impulse, Peer Through Depth)? I am on the 2cc side as their effects are obviously better, hence almost strictly better during the combo turn. Before the combo, you have time to cast 2 2cc cantrips, or up to 6 1cc ones. However, how often does one need to chain so many cantrips? 2cc cantrips are more easily disrupted, but we are fine with absorbing a Counterspell by a cantrip, aren't we?

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draw effects cards (not indirect way loke wish or the mage): 20 to 23 - 1cc = 7-8 (they r weak mid combo but necessary during early game), 2cc = 4 to 6 (slightly stronger but nothing or almost nothing, gives u cardadvantaged meaning no power during combo), 3cc = (the raw power of draw, almost all of the 3cc is based on cardavantage FoI = 2 cards Meditate 4 cards etc) 5-6

Why this numbers? uff to long explanation and i dont have the patience to tell it all LOL but i have a statistical explanation, mechanical one and a list of results of the using of wrong and right numbers.

Yes u can waste a cantrip to a counterspell which a good player never going to trade off like that...

Yes cantrip is requiered but tricky to play with this is why it's easier to grab the Spiral deck the have a card that mechanicaly is equal to 3 cards in solidarity...

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

draw effects cards (not indirect way loke wish or the mage): 20 to 23 - 1cc = 7-8 (they r weak mid combo but necessary during early game), 2cc = 4 to 6 (slightly stronger but nothing or almost nothing, gives u cardadvantaged meaning no power during combo), 3cc = (the raw power of draw, almost all of the 3cc is based on cardavantage FoI = 2 cards Meditate 4 cards etc) 5-6

Why this numbers? uff to long explanation and i dont have the patience to tell it all LOL but i have a statistical explanation, mechanical one and a list of results of the using of wrong and right numbers.

Yes u can waste a cantrip to a counterspell which a good player never going to trade off like that...

Yes cantrip is requiered but tricky to play with this is why it's easier to grab the Spiral deck the have a card that mechanicaly is equal to 3 cards in solidarity...

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Wow. I really wish I could understand this language you're writing in.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

Wow. I really wish I could understand this language you're writing in.

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What's the language part of my post that you don't understand?

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Originally Posted by Seraphus

What's the language part of my post that you don't understand?

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I am pretty sure he gets the English parts; but not all of us use Internet Geek Speak with more acronyms and short forms of a word or sentence than actual English in it's context.

English is my second language and it took me a good 5 minutes to figure out all your short forms, etc. I agree with you that sometimes it might feel easier to just grab Spiral Tide over Solidarity; but the fact is that Spiral Tide does not work at instant speed and thus functions differently all around. Your math is also sound, although very hard to understand as it is so broken; you need to run that low end curve, hit the numbers right for CMC (Converted Mana Costs) vs draw effect, cantrips, combo assemblers, etc.

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Jace is not super fun to deal with as he usually comes alongside a control package; hopefully you grab game 1 outright and then just go for the 50/50 split on the next two. But mana is still a huge tool for you, so I would suggest to try to have as many lands onboard as possible and bring a couple Flusterstorm in from your SB for this match up. That way the more strom you get into the mix the easier it will be to actually control Jace and not even worry about him resolving. Yes it is funny to see him resove and the Brainstorm effect actually kill the use; but I am risk adverse, so I like to try to keep him out of the mix if possible.

I've been testing the business spell vs. 2nd Brain Freeze for a few weeks now, though my opportunities to test have been limited more than I would have expected, so this isn't going to be a statistically-significant post, more of a "feels like" post. I'm still working through it, though.

It seems to me that there are very few situations that you can't win when you're holding a Brain Freeze, as opposed to an additional business spell like Snap or Thirst for Knowledge. The one that's happened so far was from me keeping a bad hand and drawing really awkwardly, where having a 4th Snap helped me to continue to chain spells together to win big. What I have definitely found is that having 2 Brain Freeze main lets me win small a lot easier, in that I can double-freeze them more consistently, half-freeze them to turn on Visions of Beyond, or freeze myself to make Brainstorm into a business spell. I've also found that, by and large, I can win whether it's a Brain Freeze or a Snap in my hand, so I think it's largely a matter of preference. For me, I prefer the lines of play that come from holding Brain Freeze, since it feels safer a lot of the time. But again, both ways seem effective. Getting a Brain Freeze with only one in the deck (and one in the SB) is definitely not difficult to do when you need to, so I wouldn't play two just based on the fear that you'll never see it if there's only one.

Another thought I had. It's probably not better, but if you need a way to deal with an X/1, have you considered Gut Shot? About the only upside I can think of is that it's immune to REB, though the situations where that matters seem to be few and far between. Piracy Charm is more versatile, though that's not a spot in my SB that I want a versatile card in. What we need is a good, solid answer to every hatebear that matters. So, a tentative list:

Ethersworn Canonist
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Gaddock Teeg (though this guy doesn't really matter, depending on your build)
Aven Mindcensor (kind of...)
Mother of Runes
Scavenging Ooze
Meddling Mage (is technically a card, though no one plays it)

There are some good answers, though it definitely seems like the ones that we care about (Ooze aside) are x/1s. It's too bad that they're mostly white cards, since Hibernation isn't as good as I want it to be...but based on this I'm definitely wanting to put at least one Piracy Charm into my SB.

Well, I've had the chance to do some serious playtesting again after getting a little bit bored with ANT. I also picked up some Snapcasters, largely because I hate using proxies.

I started with the list I'd borrowed from benthetenor, which I'll repost for reference.

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11 Island
6 blue fetches

4 Snapcaster Mage

4 Brainstorm
4 High Tide
3 Visions of Beyond
2 Peek
4 Reset
4 Impulse
4 Snap
2 Brain Freeze
3 Meditate
3 Cunning Wish
2 Turnabout
4 Force of Will

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This was just gold fishing, so I was not worried about pinning down a sideboard.

Well, I played a dozen games, with any game that I did not successfully combo out on turn three being counted as a loss. I won them all.

Seriously. The deck combo'd like clockwork on turn three. It was beautiful. Yeah, there were a couple of games where I got lucky, top decking my third land or my High Tide on turn three. But wow, what a change of pace.

That said, I do feel there is room for improvement. VoB was just dead to me - I was abusing Snapcaster so hard that I often had only six or so cards in my graveyard, despite having a storm count in the double digits. I'm not saying the card is wrong, just that it's wrong for me. Which is sad, actually, because I really want to make that card work.

I also felt the most pressure in the early game, as you only have two turns to assemble the combo if you intend to go for a turn three win. That makes the extra digging power of Opt especially valuable. So I'm doing a straight swap with Opt for VoB.

Brainstorm also had to be used far more aggressively, and I wonder if Thought Scour would find a home in a "fast" version of Solidarity. It would do a better job of clearing away the chaff than Opt, and helps reduce the storm count needed to win in other cases.

I've toyed with PtD over Impulse, because without the need to find a fourth land and one less turn to find High Tide the extra dig seems strong. Sadly, it does not grab Snapcaster, so I'll probably leave it for the minute.

17 lands seemed to be enough, but I got lucky a couple of times, and so I'd probably want to go back up to 18. On one hand this is coming from a guy that pioneered the 20 land list, so I clearly like my lands. On the other, I do think that while we want to be able to combo on turn three, we'd happily wait if our opponent allows us to. We get stronger as long as we can keep making those land drops.

I also never seemed to actually cast Turnabout - it did nothing when I was tight on mana, and I didn't need it when I had plenty of mana. It's on the watch list for the moment.

I really do want a card advantage engine outside of Meditate, though. FoI plays badly with Snapcaster, and is slow to boot, but perhaps I'll test it. Alternatively, a maindeck BSZ or Stroke could be randomly broken.

Wish seems weaker, and I'm not sure that three is the right number. We can't Wish for setup cards, and it does not play well with Snapcaster. Would two be enough? Remember that we are trying to race more than react here. Something to test.

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

VoB was just dead to me - I was abusing Snapcaster so hard that I often had only six or so cards in my graveyard, despite having a storm count in the double digits. I'm not saying the card is wrong, just that it's wrong for me. Which is sad, actually, because I really want to make that card work.
......
I also never seemed to actually cast Turnabout - it did nothing when I was tight on mana, and I didn't need it when I had plenty of mana. It's on the watch list for the moment.

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Thanks for the info on the goldfish. But I need to point out that those scenarios are not usually the case. Going of on T3 is usully possible with that list when facing no disruption, but once you add a few Discard spells and a few Counterspells against you, you'll see that cards like Turnabout (which is bad with only 3 lands into play indeed), and Visions of Beyond (which is bad on your 3rd turn indeed), gain a whole lot of value on the lategame.
Try some real live testing against Esper or UW and things like that to see if your view of those cards change.

Lands
2 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Tropical Island
8 Island

Creatures
4 Snapcaster Mage

Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Opt
1 Visions of Beyond
4 Impulse
2 Brain Freeze
3 Cunning Wish
4 Force of Will
4 High Tide
3 Meditate
4 Reset
3 Snap
2 Turnabout

Sideboard
1 Meditate
1 Turnabout
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Echoing Truth
3 Flusterstorm
1 Hunting Pack
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Rebuild
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Wipe Away

Is what I've been testing. FoI doesn't have the best synergy with VoB or Snapcasters, but it has amazing synergy with Brain Freeze, as always. It makes Brain Freeze even more of a business spell. You can work it to not harm Snapcasters too badly.

Edit: Screw FoI. Snapcaster Mage really powers up Meditates. I still love running 19 lands, even there are times I wish I ran another business spell. I still love being able to make consistent land drops against blue decks. When facing combo decks just side out an Island g2 and g3, as those are the only matches where making a land drop every turn of the game isn't as important as well, not dying.

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

Well, I've had the chance to do some serious playtesting again after getting a little bit bored with ANT. I also picked up some Snapcasters, largely because I hate using proxies.

I started with the list I'd borrowed from benthetenor, which I'll repost for reference.

<list>

This was just gold fishing, so I was not worried about pinning down a sideboard.

Well, I played a dozen games, with any game that I did not successfully combo out on turn three being counted as a loss. I won them all.

Seriously. The deck combo'd like clockwork on turn three. It was beautiful. Yeah, there were a couple of games where I got lucky, top decking my third land or my High Tide on turn three. But wow, what a change of pace.

That said, I do feel there is room for improvement. VoB was just dead to me - I was abusing Snapcaster so hard that I often had only six or so cards in my graveyard, despite having a storm count in the double digits. I'm not saying the card is wrong, just that it's wrong for me. Which is sad, actually, because I really want to make that card work.

I also felt the most pressure in the early game, as you only have two turns to assemble the combo if you intend to go for a turn three win. That makes the extra digging power of Opt especially valuable. So I'm doing a straight swap with Opt for VoB.

Brainstorm also had to be used far more aggressively, and I wonder if Thought Scour would find a home in a "fast" version of Solidarity. It would do a better job of clearing away the chaff than Opt, and helps reduce the storm count needed to win in other cases.

I've toyed with PtD over Impulse, because without the need to find a fourth land and one less turn to find High Tide the extra dig seems strong. Sadly, it does not grab Snapcaster, so I'll probably leave it for the minute.

17 lands seemed to be enough, but I got lucky a couple of times, and so I'd probably want to go back up to 18. On one hand this is coming from a guy that pioneered the 20 land list, so I clearly like my lands. On the other, I do think that while we want to be able to combo on turn three, we'd happily wait if our opponent allows us to. We get stronger as long as we can keep making those land drops.

I also never seemed to actually cast Turnabout - it did nothing when I was tight on mana, and I didn't need it when I had plenty of mana. It's on the watch list for the moment.

I really do want a card advantage engine outside of Meditate, though. FoI plays badly with Snapcaster, and is slow to boot, but perhaps I'll test it. Alternatively, a maindeck BSZ or Stroke could be randomly broken.

Wish seems weaker, and I'm not sure that three is the right number. We can't Wish for setup cards, and it does not play well with Snapcaster. Would two be enough? Remember that we are trying to race more than react here. Something to test.

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All these things are true. The only change I've made is to add an 18th land over a 4th Snap, and I'll say it's amazing how much differently the list feels with just that single change. Getting lands isn't even an issue, but the deck feels less explosive. Neither is better or worse, just two sides to the same coin.

I will say, echoing ScatmanX, that a lot of those cards that have value in a longer game aren't going to show their value against a goldfish, of course. It's the same as when you're going off and shuffling away Force of Will because it's not helping you win. Cunning Wish is most often a card like that, one that I'll usually make disappear with Brainstorm, though I will say that it's utility is greatly increased in longer games. To that end, I've replaced the Mindbreak Trap in my board with a single Pact of Negation, which gets boarded in against anything with counterspells (along with the Flusterstorms) and can be wished for before going off, a la the sorcery-speed versions of High Tide.

As for Turnabout, I can definitely see where you're coming from. The first time I tested Snap, I was all the way down to 1 Turnabout main, and while it didn't negatively impact my ability to go off during the game, it did tend to limit the insane, explosive things I could do like stroking myself for 20, etc. That would seem to me to mean that it's not absolutely necessary, but again, I like having it there. I will often shuffle it back in for later use if I have something like a Reset and a Snap, though.

What is awesome is how Snap is basically a free Reset when you're only on 2-3 lands. That part never gets old. You'll have to let me know how Opt feels to you, as I've really enjoyed Visions of Beyond and probably won't ever go back, but I am interested in your testing. I'll probably go back to the 17 land version just to remind myself what that's all about.

Encouraged by everyone to play some real games, I took the unmodified list (so VoB over Opt) to a playtest session and spent a couple of hours playing (unsideboarded) against Merfolk. I appreciate that they are not a huge part of the meta right now, but it's a matchup I'm familiar with, so it makes for useful comparisons.

First, it's worth noting that I won all my games, which is odd against Merfolk (I typically win the matches 2-1). I wouldn't call the match a walkover, and there were certainly a few times I got lucky, but the dynamic of the match had certainly changed.

The first thing I noticed was that the Merfolk player had to be a lot more choosy about the hands he kept. In the past, Merfolk on the play with an aggressive hand could simply race us by winning on their turn 4 (our turn 3). This build just stomps that kind of strategy flat. Very encouraging for our game 1's against straight up aggro.

This meant that my opponent was quickly pushed into looking for more controlling hands. Ironically, this slows him down, giving us at least the traditional four turns, but with our leaner, more efficient deck, we actually have a lot of options once that fourth land goes down. Longer games always favour Solidarity.

Beyond the general "feel", a few things stood out.

1) VoB is mostly still "meh", but occassionally "omfgwtfbbqpwnd!!!111!!1" It reminds me of Twincast that way. Usually, it's just a cantrip, but it can also power out some pretty amazing comebacks.

One particular game stands out as a good example. I'd tried to go off on turn 3 in response to lethal (Merfolk with a fast hand AND disruption on the play). Playing through and around his disruption left me with one active High Tide, and a hand of High Tide, Snapcaster, Snap, VoB and Brainfreeze with two mana floating. Storm was 3 .

Obviously, I would need to Snap something in order to continue, so I bounced his LoA. That, along with the Cursecatcher he had burned trying to shut me down, took lethal off the table. I now had four mana available, but no good way of going forward. I therefore cast VoB, and without passing priority cast Brainfreeze, hitting him for 18. As he already had three cards in his graveyard, this gave me a boosted VoB when it resolved, and I ended his turn with a full grip. I went off easily the following turn. I think I Snapcaster'd into my Brainfreeze at a relatively modest Storm count.

2) As a collary to the above, we can also go off on our own turn. Sure, Reset is dead, but we now have six untap effects (plus Snapcaster recursion) that can be cast on our turn. This was randomly important, because it allowed me to take advantage of an opponent tapping out on a turn they thought they were safe because I could drop the extra land and go off before they untapped. In this sense, Turnabout still earns a spot.

3) I miss Hunting Pack. This is a (mostly) turn three deck. Hunting Pack was also (occasionally) a turn three deck. The new build would make Hunting Pack even stronger, because there are four more untap effects in the deck. High Tide, Cunning Wish and any of Snap/Reset plus Snap/Reset/Turnabout is a win with three lands in play. I'm going to try and wrestle this back into the deck.

4) I don't like it, but 17 lands was enough. I got lucky when hit by a couple of successive Stifles, finding more lands when I probably shouldn't have, but I always made my first three land drops. I would go up to 18, though, if I were adding a Tropical Island.

5) Pact of Negation plus Snapcaster equals lols. I fought through two Force of Will, Spell Snare and Cursecatcher with the Pact of Negation I had wished for being my only counter - pure threat density (two High Tides) and recursion (Snapcaster) won the day.

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

Considerations.

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Hey, nice to see you tested irl, and thanks for the comments.
couple of thing I'd like to comment:
1 - You said you liked VoB better, but still was not awesome. That makes sense, since you were playing agains't Merfolk. If you test against some slower MU's, like Esper, UW, Maverick and other, you'll probably see that it can be bonkers (well, you actually saw it in some matchs, but you'll be mroe convinced)
2 - I never got Pact+Snapcaster to work. I mean, we usually start with Tide. They counter it, and you Pact their Counter. Good players now respond by usin their 2nd Counterspell on the High Tide, while Pact still on the Stack, which means we can't Snapcaster it back. Has this scenario been played off differently by you or him?
3 - Going off in your own turn it's often a nice thing. You mini combo on their turn, then go off again on yours. It takes people by surprise, while making sure they have no counters and/or are tapped out.

So I noticed some things the last days of testing too:

>Snapcaster needs 8 1cc cantrips to function well. I don't feel like this deck is quite turn 3 yet (unless forced just wait, as it's almost always easier to do so) so it's great to double up on your cantrips on t3 with Mages.

>I miss Opt. Even with 19 land I loved Opt (you just use Impulses and Opts to get business spells vs lands, and it makes mulling easier). Opt is also AMAZING with Snapcasters, while VoB is kinda lackluster. I'd go with a 3/1 split or a 2/2 split in Opts favor honestly, as it's not easy knowing if you should cast your VoB's early or hold onto them for their late game power.

Try Hunting Pack again. It's still good, though I've been using it less lately.

I went back to the 17 land version and played just a few games, and instantly remembered why it's so good. But the whole "feels more explosive" comment doesn't really say much, so I thought about it from a mathematical perspective. If you're scared of Stats, that's okay, but if we don't dive into the numbers then the only thing I can offer you is my "feels like", which is far from fact.

In this build, it was a choice for me between an 18th land (an Island) and a 4th Snap, though for the purposes of the math, it could have been any business spell like Thirst for Knowledge or Blue Sun's Zenith. In the setup phase, we see about 15 cards, assuming a Peek or Visions of Beyond (or Brainstorm with no shuffle) and an Impulse along with our cards drawn each turn. That's 1/4 of the deck, making the probability of seeing the card before going off a neat .2500. When going off, I will always see more than 15 additional cards before winning, typically between 20 and 30, putting the probability of seeing the Snap/Land card while going off (and not before) somewhere between .4444 and .6667. Not only are the chances of seeing the card much greater when going off than while setting up, something that should be pretty obvious, but when you're going off, if it's a land, it's completely dead, whereas a business spell will, by definition, always be live. There is a much better chance of seeing the card in question when you need it to be a business spell than when you need it to be a land.

Then, there's the fact that it's much, much easier to go off turn 3, which means that you're generally not going to need much more than 3 lands to go off. The odds of seeing at least 3 lands in the top 15 cards (or by turn 3) in a 17 land build is a pretty astonishing 87.87%. Adding in an 18th land, the numbers go up (natch), but the percentage is only 90.68%. To me, that additional ~3% chance of not missing your 3rd land drop doesn't seem worth having a dead card mid-combo, considering that there could already be as many as 18 (14 lands and 4 FOW) hanging out in the deck, but I can't make that call for you.

The math bears out what I've assumed in testing, which is that having the additional land is going to matter in setting up some games, but here it's less than 3 games in 100. These are of course just example games, and the percentages go down a little if you have, say, a Brainstorm instead of an Impulse, but I had to pick some sort of starting hand and go with it or I'd never be able to make any numbers. What this shows more than anything is how powerful Impulse is, and just why we'd never want to run any less than 4, which has been the consensus for as long as the deck has existed.

Interestingly enough, without Impulse, the sorcery speed version of High Tide does have more cantrips, but needs to cast them at a greater frequency to match the ability to dig for lands that this deck has. Ponder will only ever go one card deep, either one of the top 3, or a random 1. Preordain will dig somewhere between 1 and 3 cards deep, depending on how much control you want over your draws. Brainstorm digs 3 deep, but only on the turn you go off or in combination with a shuffle. Comparing them to us, we've got 4 Brainstorm, too, 4 (or in my case, 5) 1-mana cantrips and 4 Impulse. We get the same functionality, but then Impulse is way, way better than Preordain. It also puts the cards you don't want on the bottom, effectively making your deck 4 cards smaller, so in a lot of ways it does what none of the 1-mana cantrips can do. But while I got the idea to trim to 17 lands from some versions of sorcery-speed High Tide, that deck may actually be less suited to run < 18 lands. I don't really know what a standard hand goes like for them, but I would guess that playing 3 cantrips over the first 2 turns would seem a little lucky. They also need more lands to power their Time Spiral (in general), so that's probably also a reason why they need to run 18 lands.

What that long digression says to me is that this deck is actually faster by a significant amount, if slightly less consistent, than sorcery-speed High Tide, which finally gives me a reason to champion it over the sorcery speed version. Up to this point, I was just going off of personal preference and the ability to dominate the stack. But now we have a deck that has all of the inevitability of sorcery-speed High Tide, but which can function almost a full turn faster and is, by it's nature, more resilient against counterspells. Difficulty aside (and I would say that this is easily the most difficult deck ever constructed), there's no good reason to run Time Spirals over Resets.

tl;dr - What's wrong with you? Go back and read it. There's good stuff in there.

A lot of this is late commentary on Herbig's posts a few pages back, but it's all stuff I've been struggling with putting into words, which is why you got it here. To Silent Requiem, you're awesome and I'm glad you're enjoying the dynamics of the deck. It adds a whole other layer of complexity when you no longer have to wait until they are about ready to kill you before you can technically win, so now you're trying to figure out whether you should kill them now when they likely don't have a lot of disruption, or kill them later when you have 4-6 lands in play. When in doubt, wait, but sometimes it's right to just beat them when their defenses are down. And yes, sometimes that means in response to something they do at your end of turn, which is an amazing club to have in the bag. All of these things make something as innocuous as Peek a really, really important tool.

Sorry that these posts are way too long. If I don't explain myself though, then things get misconstrued and it ends up taking me more words over multiple posts.

The new lists seem to be a lot harder to sideboard.
I mean, we don't want to take core cards out, neither Snapcaster/Snap engine.
So, what do you take out against the most common matchups (maverick, esper, canadian)?
Thanks.

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

The new lists seem to be a lot harder to sideboard.
I mean, we don't want to take core cards out, neither Snapcaster/Snap engine.
So, what do you take out against the most common matchups (maverick, esper, canadian)?
Thanks.

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Good question; There are a lot of different things you can do, so I'll just give some examples for what I do. First, the sideboard I'm currently running, which hasn't changed too much:

1 Brain Freeze
1 Meditate
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Turnabout
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rebuild
1 Pact of Negation
3 Flusterstorm
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Ravenous Trap

Sideboarding in general really is as easy as seeing what cards are bad and subbing in cards that are good, and trying to figure out what role you want to play in the matchup. There's a lot of flexibility, especially given that the deck can now play faster or slower, so it's really up to you to decide where you want to put the balance between speed and protection. Against a lot of decks, you can board out some number of Snaps since they're going to get slower post-board in the hopes of being able to interact with you. I ran the deck for months with 0 Snap and it still works just fine, is very stable, etc, just isn't quite as fast. But usually I'd board out 1-ofs to make it work.

For example, against a deck like RUG, I'd probably go -1 Snap, -1 High Tide (if you expect Surgical Extraction), -1 Visions of Beyond, -1 Force of Will to bring in +3 Flusterstorm and +1 Pact of Negation. This way you can still wish for a free counter if you need it, and Pact is better than Force in the matchup anyway. Stoneblade would be very, very similar, though I might take out a Peek over a Visions of Beyond, since you won't have to fight through quite so much disruption. Against Maverick, I'd probably just board out a Force of Will or a Cunning Wish for an Echoing Truth. Having access to 4 Snap main goes a long way towards making that matchup irrelevant. Against most combo, I'm fine going -3 Snap (or maybe 2 Snap and 1 Peek), +3 Flusterstorm. I wouldn't overboard and bring in Surgical Extraction unless I'm facing Reanimator, but it is there if you feel like you're not getting enough of an edge. Combo isn't too bad, though. Ichorid is -1 Peek, -2 Force of Will for +3 Surgical Extraction, though that's not one that I've really played a whole lot recently. But SE is better than Force of Will and Visions of Beyond is often just Ancestral Recall. Get to three lands, Cunning Wish for Ravenous Trap, accept handshakes. And Snapping Narcomoebas and Ichorids can be really good if they don't have a steady discard outlet. It's also possible that Flusterstorm is just better than Force of Will, so you could board out the remaining Forces for some Flusterstorm, but that's up to you.

A lot of this isn't really strongly tested, but it makes sense. If I were in a tournament tomorrow, it's what I'd do.

I'd not take out Tide against RUG. I only do it against opponents that have Surgical + Discard, or slow clocks.
The rest is ok I guess, but you seem to have few outs against a resolved Choke in MAV.

A lot of really good posts recently, so I may unintentionally miss some points.

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I never got Pact+Snapcaster to work. I mean, we usually start with Tide. They counter it, and you Pact their Counter. Good players now respond by usin their 2nd Counterspell on the High Tide, while Pact still on the Stack, which means we can't Snapcaster it back. Has this scenario been played off differently by you or him?

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Here's how it played out: High Tide > FoW > 2nd High Tide > 2nd FoW > Pact (resolves, getting me 1 High Tide) > Reset > Spell Snare. At this point I have only two mana (one Island) open, so I Snapcaster'd the Pact back onto the Spell Snare and went off from there.

A better play would actually have been: High Tide > FoW > Pact. This would have left me with one more mana if he only had one FoW, while making no difference if he had two; I just didn't spot that at the time. It would have played out: High Tide > FoW > Pact > 2nd FoW (targeting High Tide) > 2nd High Tide (resolves). I would then need to have been smart and let the counter chain unravel, putting Pact into the graveyard. If I was greedy, and left them on the stack, then you are right, I would not have had Pact available when he snared my Reset.

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The new lists seem to be a lot harder to sideboard.
I mean, we don't want to take core cards out, neither Snapcaster/Snap engine.

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This is a real concern for me. My first thought is actually the fast combo matchup. We're actually weaker here, because we lack Remand, and are relying totally on FoW to slow them down. Bringing in a playset of Flusterstorm or the like seems to be an absolute minimum here.

We CAN'T take out cantrips, because they find us the counters when they try to go off. That leaves us taking out Snapcasters (which would prevent us giving Flusterstorm flashback), Cunning Wish (which prevents us wishing for Mindbreak Trap or Echoing Truth) or untap effects (which will slow us down) Removing untap effects seems the least of these evils. I'd drop the Snaps first, as Turnabout is more powerful in a long game.

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I went back to the 17 land version and played just a few games, and instantly remembered why it's so good.

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I'll be honest, a year ago I wouldn't even have tried a 17 land build. I just liked my land drops too much. However, I've spent a lot of time playing ANT recently, which is also a turn three deck (although obviously capable of going off much faster from time to time). ANT cares a lot about making the first three land drops, and it only runs 17 lands (or 15 and 2 Chrome Mox). I don't think the similarity is a coincidence. 17 (or 18 if you splash green) is probably the right number. I love how much business I draw into when I go off.

I didn't get around to any testing tonight (new Jack Campbell book just came in the post :laugh: ), but I'll keep at it. I really like how the deck is feeling, and I think that (with much tweaking and even more practice) it will be an objectively better deck than what Gearheart left us with.

My next test will probably involve Hunting Pack - I want to see how often I can go off with HP if it's my only wincon (simply to see how feasible it is to assemble the combo).

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Originally Posted by Silent Requiem

My next test will probably involve Hunting Pack - I want to see how often I can go off with HP if it's my only wincon (simply to see how feasible it is to assemble the combo).

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I'd like to read your conclusions about this later =]

Is anybody having problems with Maverick pos-side lately?
I mean, 3 Thalia, Canonist, ETutor, Choke and Surgicals are quite a lot of hate...
I'm thinking of adding 2 Gutshot on the Side, that with the Snaps MD should be able to handle Mom + 1 Hatebear (good for us that Tegg does near to nothing).
With that said, what do you think about a SB like this (for the Snapcaster Version):

1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Brain Freeze
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate

1 Rebuild
1 Wipe Away
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
2 GutShot
1 Surgical Extraction
3 Flusterstorm
1 Pact of Negation
(Gutshot can became extra Surgicals if they prove to be un-necessary against Maverick)