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I was thinking that maybe Nether Shadow could be a better answer to Surgical Extraction than Purify the Grave?
I mean, I could give us more angles of attack, and more ways to resolve a DR, and would make the deck more aggressive with less dredging... What do you guys think?
@Gui:
I tried bloodghast dredge using the same reasoning you did with nether shadow.
Snapcaster decks also have eight virtual swords to plowshares. Needless to say, it didn't work as good as I thought it would.
My current list -
10 5c lands
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 ichorid
4 Narc
4 Bridge
4 Troll
4 Thug
4 Stinkweed Imp
1 Darkblast
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
2 Dread Return
4 Putrid Imp
1 Tireless Tribe
4 Breakthrough
SB
3 Purify the Grave
1 terastodon/AoD
1 iona
1 elesh norn
1 ancestor's chosen
4 nature's claim
4 grudge
once faithless looting comes out, i will definitely be making adjustments to include LED and that, but atm thoughts? suggestions? I have playtested against most t1 legacy decks and comments thus far:
the darkblast main is rarely necessary, but sometimes it is necessary. kills bob, and sometimes is necessary as a dredger. though i try to avoid it.
zealot/sphinx g1 is amazing. while yes it is sometimes win more, it guarantees the fact that you will win RIGHT THEN rather than next turn. (DOJ/wrath, pyroclasm effect, firespout, the works). g2 they may not be necessary, as usually i board in Iona against the snapcaster/red decks along with elesh norn.
purify the grave has been key in snapcaster/surgical annoyances. since surgical 90% is game 2, sometimes you can prepare for it. you understand that they will remove your bridges. but you have other options, and can still win through a surgical or two.
I like this list. Might try a similar one with 3 firestorms main.
I personally like the versatility of being able to either defensively exile my card or proactively getting rid of a card in their graveQuote:
Originally Posted by Gui
ive thought about this too and potentially could cut Dark Blast, 1 Ichorid, and the tribe for 3 firestorms.Quote:
Originally Posted by wutangkillabeezonaswarm
also, potential for chain in the board?
I'd keep tribe main and cut a thug.
Sup dawgs! My friend and I tested that 17land Dredge list, and reached some conclusions:
The list is the following:
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Tarnished Citadel
4 Putrid Imp
3 Tireless Tribe
3 Bloodghast
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 GGT
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Careful Study
SB: 4 Stony Silence
SB: 4 Ground Seal
SB: 4 Nature's Claim
SB: 1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Woodfall Primus
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
The testing turned out fine.. The list is very solid, but sometimes lack the explosiveness of Breakthrough.
We played the same 75 in a local tourney and the results were:
Me: 2-0 UW Landstill, 2-0 Rb Goblins, 2-1 RUG Tempo, 0-2 UBr ANT
Him: 1-2 Bant Aggro, 2-0 RUG Tempo, 2-1 RUG Tempo, 2-1 UBr ANT
We both ended 3-1, and it was pretty fine.
Ground Seal is was MVP all day. The draw and protection is provides is simply awesome against Snapcaster.dec. Stony Silence was alright, won the ANT matchup for my friend. But we didn't get a chance to use it against what really matters (Crypts, Relics, MUD and Affinity). Nature's Claim was not boarded in any matchup, and since Leyline of the Void isn't showing up, I'll cut it for something more useful.
Any comments and thoughts are appreciated.
As I already said I like the idea of more land and 2cc sb cards. I had tested Seal already and came to the same conclusions as you. Very strong where you need it.
Against artifacts I'm not sure if I wouldn't rather stay with Grudge, but definitely you should consider Null Rod over Stony Silence.
Actually, I would probably try 16 land first and keep Breakthrough in the deck. Bloodghast would probably go, I really don't like it, even with 16 Lands.
So in comparison to your mainboard, I will probably testsomething like: -3 Bloodghast, -2 Paradise, +1 Tarnished, +1 Tireless Tribe, +3 Beakthrough.
Bloodghasts are nice, I like them... They can add a good clock and produce tokens like a pro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Izor
We didn't try Null Rod because we didn't have them... But seems pretty reasonable. Still, they seem a little more hateable (it's so easy to kill artifacts).
I`m considering to bring back to my sideboard Pithing Needle... Otherwise, how do you deal with Scavenging Ooze...
Pithing Needle has flexibility to deal also with Relics, Tarmods Crypt, Faerie Macabre, Pernicious Deeds, Engineered Explosives.
I`m considering to run the following SB list against a meta that rotates hardly:
4x Pithing Needles
4x Gound Seal
4x Leyline of the Void
3x Chains of Vapor
I realy trust my 12 lands LED list ... so, I`m like preparing a hate against other hate cards.
Those Scavenging Ooze are killing !!!
pithing needle pros:
you can shut down almost any card
cons:
there are like a hundred efficient cards that kill artifacts
you can only name one card per needle
doesn't have legs(this is big)
you could name a card that isn't even in your opponent's deck
i dunno there's like a lot more but long story short if you fear the ooze kill it with firestorm.
also just in my experience I would fear Echoing Truth way more than pernicious deed or engineered explosive. Snapcaster(hell any deck that makes blue mana) decks will pull this out of their ass sometimes and having one resolve will probably cost you the game especially if a good deal of your library has already been milled.
Echoing Truth only slows you down, just like EE or Deed. I usually don't worry about those cards much, because if they're wasting mana on those cards, they aren't using it fior aggressive measures. You can very easily rebuild if they kill your tokens. Just let your Ichorids die a couple of turns.
Real Pithing Neddle con:Quote:
Originally Posted by wutangkillabeezonaswarm
Once you start dredging, no regular card that must be cast from our hand will help us if it is in the deck. If you intend to use it against tormods or relic, you must (a) have it in your hand and (b) cast it throught counters / discard.
Dredge already doesn't like mulligan very much, because we need combinations of cards and it's hard to hit them. If we mulligan to find a needle, we are already slowing down, which is usually the usage of Tormods or Relics against us.
that too. I remember when pithing needle and jitte were still in standard. the only reason people ran needles was like 99% to shut down the opponent's jitte. Not that it mattered too much because almost every other deck I ran into was some sort of gifts ungiven variant that didn't run jitte. Damn I feel old.
Old? I remember when they made decks with Tolarian Academy and Necropotence, and the best kill was Illusions of Grandeur and Donate.Quote:
Originally Posted by wutangkillabeezonaswarm
Hey, anyone else have good results with Ground Seal?
Hi Guy's I've recently played at a local tourney and went 4-1 using my LED Dredge.
Match ups:
Merfolk -(2-0)
U/W stoneblade- (2-1)
Sui Black- (2-0)
ANT- (1-2)
SB:15
3Firestorm
3Ancient Grudge
2Purify the grave
1Coffin purge
1Elesh norn
1Terestadon
4COTV
Playing against Stone blade and Merfolk gave me a surprise(well i only started playing again 3weeks ago after two years of stopping) I never expected them to use 4 surgical extractions in their SB. I was expecting a couple of relic and tormod's but was only able to see one relic when I was against merfolk. After the game, I asked both players about their GH cards. Both players told me they have 4SE,1ROP and 1TC in their sideboards. Even Burn/RDW players have SE in their SB.
Well using PTG and CP helped in some cases, I'm thinking of running Unmasked or dures in my SB to battle SE. what do you think??
Good points about Pithing Needle have already been made by people above, so let me just tell you that you won't enjoy Ground Seal in a deck with only 12 lands. Just forget it. The CC2 is even a problem for LEDless 15 land lists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dravus Mallinard
Somehow I am stuck on my sideboard at 14 cards, I've read over all the "run this run that "etc" from here and other forums. My current setup is at a minimum:
1 Iona, shield of emira
1 Elesh norn, Grand crusade
4 Firestorm
4 Ancient grudge
4 Ray of Revelation
As for angel of despair, I have 1 Angel of despair & 1 Sphinx of lost truths maindeck, its my only maindeck DR target after the obvious, Golgari Grave troll. Angel of despair just answers too much annoying crap, that I really love having it from the first game, especialy in such a diverse format as type 1.5. Also I've toyed with Lion's eye Diamond & deep analysis, but I much prefer Ledless dredge it is more consistant, as many of you reading this probably already know.
I've toyed with other cards in the sideboard like Wooldfall Primus. But like Terastodon, I rarely run into at situation that I need to destroy more than 1 Permanent, and Angel of Despair does that on top of being able to target ANY permanent vs having conditions like the previous 2.
I've toyed with Pithing needle, which is nice but can only be used from hand, and I much rather having stuff I can use from the graveyard via flashback. I've thought about the mirror match, as rare as that happens, but Elesh norn cover's the mirror match pretty well.
I've looked at Winds of change, but in actually using it at actual tournaments, it is just a bit narrow and only a couple times have I boarded it in, and even when I did, it didn't give me a dramatic edge, it felt more like I was just burning time and not actually gainging any sort of advantage since they could just dump the best stuff from their hand anyway if i decided to cast another one on my very next turn. As well against fast stuff, cabal therapy should be enough against those decks to buy myself the necessary time.
In either case, I know of the more traditional stuff in Dredge sideboards, but the less conventional stuff or more "secerct tech", anyone is willing to share, share away >^,^< somehow, I am currently, at least of this post anyway, stuck at 14 cards somehow lol.
you have nothing against Leyline of the void
My sugestion is Chain of Vapor ... but Nature`s Claim also works well !