[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

This is my list for rector fit

1x Starved Rusalka
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Fierce Empath
2x Eternal Witness
3x Academy Rector
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Thragtusk
1x Sun Titan
1x Yosei, the Morning Star

1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant

1x Moat
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Phyrexian Arena

3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Vindicate

3x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Phyrexian Tower



//SB
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Nether Void
1x Raking Canopy
1x Humility
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Aven Mindcensor
3x Extirpate
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide

Thoughts concerns?? Credit goes to Kevin

Well like you said, it's Kevin's list. He's been the spearhead for the Rector version so I'd pretty much trust what he says. He's tested it extensively. Can't go wrong with a carbon copy of his list.

hi everyone, i'm playing BG fit
which are the best card VS S&T deck (omni/sneak and so on) in any colour version of fit.
now i'm playing 4 therapy and 3 tourach MD and 3/4 seize in side, but it's not decisive in this match.

in my test miracle seems 50/50 or favorable, if u play around jace and angels and if u see many discards.
vs goblin, i dont have never testing, on the paper the problem is if they start, on the play, with lackey but without innocent blood we cant do nothing.

this is the list that i'm playing now
15 creature
1 derange hermit
1 dryad arbor
2 witness
1 grave titan
2 ooze
1 thraghtusk
1 thrunn
4 explorer
1 wall of blossom (i dont like it so much)
1 wickerbough elder

spell 24
2 top
3 pernicius
2 dismember
1 go for the troat
2 liliana
4 therapy
4 zenith
3 tourach
3 pulse.

21 lands
4 bayou
8 basic lands
8 fetch
1 tower

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

If we're talking Trinket Mage (and ExCap/EE), there needs to be a Glissa, the Traitor IMO. She's a 1-card engine and she's almost playable just by herself as a 3/3, Zenithable Moat.

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Glissa is very tempting. Good stats and synergy. If we play with her and Acidic Slime we should call the deck "Conley Woods". But she's also a 1-off that combos with another 1-off and dies to every removal in the format. Granted, you can tutor for both, but I have just very bad experiences with this type of cards. Not sure about her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Qweerios

@Tao,

How has Acidic Slime been performing? It looks much better than Wickerbough as far as GSZ is concerned and it's also a nice looper with Volrath Tower. Isn't it a bit pricy in terms of mana investment for the effect?

Here is my tentative Trinket Fit list:

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Acidic Slime is decent, I wouldn't cut it. I haven't regrown it with Stronghold yet, though. But Karakas/Clique, Snapcaster/Laboratory or Academy Ruins could ruin your day so I think destroying lands is more important than the Instant counter removal on Wickerbough. First thing to be sided out against RUG and the likes though.

For your list I wouldn't just cut cards without testing. Thoughtseizes curve nicely and play an important role in controlling the game. Maybe 2 but not less I think. The 1-off Vraska also has been good so far, no sign of being a trap. Her -3 ability is insane and the +1 makes her somewhat resilient. I also think a Damnation/Deed split is superior to Deed only for Gbu.

Played BG tonight. Didnt get much good testing in and didnt do very well sadly. 1-2.

G1: Tezzeret Control 2-1

Man this game it felt so good. I played as tight as I could and it was rewarded with a win. Just how this deck should. That is why I love this deck. Good play really rewards you. Game 3 he had 2 Tar Pits on board with a Baleful Strix and I had a Thrun and a Finks with a Pithing Needle naming Tezzeret and a top. I am at 3 life. eot I top. I draw a fetch. I top. Nothing. I crack the fetch, go to 2. Top. Nothing. I green sun for 0 fetching Dryad Arbor. I top. Find my only other Pithing Needle. Spin Top. Get needle name tar pit. Pulse the baleful Strix. Go on to win. Man I wish that this tight play wouldve continued to win me games.

G2: RB Standard Zombies 1-2

As it turns out, Legacy decks cant beat a good zombie curve! This guy ended up going undefeated lol. Liliana is very difficult for us to deal with. He ultimated me G1 and game me either my top and Thrun or my lands. Knowing I had Garruk on top I kept my lands and played Garruk. He flew over my head with aristocrat to win. Otherwise I just couldn't deal with Liliana. When someone else has it we cant win.

G3: Belcher 0-2

Yep. G1 he has T1 Belcher but I think I may have a shot with a liliana out because he is out of gas. He draw a lions eye. G2 I didnt side in my engineered plagues though I probably should have. Didnt really matter. He makes 16 goblins T1. Kills me T2 with the deal damage equal to # of goblins.

Afterwards I played against my buddy playing Maverick. Beat him 2-0! I really like the deck and will definitely play it again next week. Hopefully I will come back with a better result (and better match ups). Treetop Villages were pretty solid. Only screwed me G1 against Tez when it was my only land and he wasted it. Otherwise it was sweet having a creeping tar pit type of beater.

Here is the BUG-fit that I've been testing.

Creatures 12

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
1 Genesis
1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Grave Titan
1 Thragtusk
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Scavenging Ooze

Spells 23

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Pernicious Deed
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Gifts Ungiven
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse

Planeswalkers 3

1 Liliana Of The Veil
1 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Lands 23

4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Wasteland/Dust Bowl

Sideboard 15

4 Negate
4 Duress
2 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
2 Nihil Spellbomb/Carpet/Meta


It's pretty close to Qweerios' list but with gifts and grave titan instead of many planeswalkers and primeval. Also it's 61 cards

Thoughts?

I'm thinking about changing Genesis to a recurring nightmare since they function similarly and I don't currently own a Genesis. If I did that I'd like to squeeze a sphinx of uthuun in there.

So far the tar pit has been good. It's a nice terminus hoser.

I haven't really tried dust bowl, but I don't think it'll replace wasteland since I'm not running primeval.

The BOP hasn't come up and is just basically testing at this point.

@Star|Scream and Qweerios:

Is a third Bayou very important to this deck? I only own 2 and would rather not buy another one. What would you replace it with.

I like BUG lists without gifts because I feel I still cannot pick gift piles very well because of lack of experience. In your opinion does it matter much in strength to do, or do not play them in the BUG list?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cire_dk

@Star|Scream and Qweerios:

Is a third Bayou very important to this deck? I only own 2 and would rather not buy another one. What would you replace it with.

I like BUG lists without gifts because I feel I still cannot pick gift piles very well because of lack of experience. In your opinion does it matter much in strength to do, or do not play them in the BUG list?

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I am running the third bayou because I don't own 4 Misty Rainforest. I would run 4 misty rainforest or a volrath's stronghold. Unfortunately card availability is an issue for me. I do believe that 7 basics is the right number, and that 2 swamps are imperative to make sure you can cast Liliana off a veteran activation in a pinch.

I'm still on the gifts train for now even though Qweerios has left it. Gifts is never dead, while a 2nd planeswalker in your hand can be. A pile like witness, walker, walker, walker can be amazing. With abrupt decay, a pile like witness, decay, pulse, deed can guarantee we get removal in an emergency. That's my take on it anyway. Qweerios has much more experience with the deck so I'm sure he has a good counterpoint.

I'd say that 7 is an acceptable minimum. I've been running 8 in Rector for a long while now, and that's been a fine number there. But Rector also has Sakuras that care about basics too, so meh. As for the 3rd bayou, I think that it's important, personally. Having a Bayou in the opening hand is very nice, and while the extra fetch is nice (shuffle for Top), I enjoy having more mana-producing lands so that Wasteland hurts less. Your mileage will vary, of course, and I think it's probably less important in G/B than in, say, Scapewish (where it's very important, as a Forest for Wood Elves that is not a "shot" for Valakut).

And Steve, there's one slight change to my list that I don't think you've got yet. I cut out the 1x Elspeth for 1x Maelstrom Pulse. Other than that, you're up to date with my list, still.

For the other gift bug-fit players--do you find gifts to be too slow? It has no board impact unless you have at least 6 mana out. It does set up a very oppressive decision for your opponent though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot

For the other gift bug-fit players--do you find gifts to be too slow? It has no board impact unless you have at least 6 mana out. It does set up a very oppressive decision for your opponent though.

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It is very slow. But it is a late-game card. Also BUG-fit is very reactive. With Brainstorms, Negates, Gifts, and Abrupt decays all being instant there are a lot of things to do at end of turn. So you can keep your mana open and then just eot gifts if there is nothing that you needed to negate.

Gifts is usually the follow up of a Deed blowout for me, wipe their board, Gifts and get a good board position.

I Usually board out gifts come game 2 and 3 depending on my opponent. Against a control player, I find it too slow and usually gets sided out for Discard and Counters.

I based my list from Qweerios and frankly am happy with Gifts being in the MD. It gives you much flexibility with the recursion that BUG has (Recurring, Stronghold and Witness) and can set-up bombs with all the mana that you usually ramp into. Plus it let's you get away with one of's freeing more space for other bombs. Can't run more than 2 though since you wouldn't want multiple copies stuck in your hand. Too bad a single EOT Gifts cannot guarantee a win. And it actually gets trickier since you react to what's in the board, your hand and graveyard too.

@Starscream

How's the 1 of Walker package been? I read somewhere here that Gifts is used to guarantee that all the Walkers will go to your hand and nowhere else. Would you consider using 2 Jace, 1 Liliana and maybe the new BG walker come RTR?

Gifts is a strong card, there is no denying it. My issue with Gift is the following:

Do I need it to win?

Then again, a lot of playing magic has to do with having fun and stimulating your mind, and Gifts does just that. That's a good enough reason to play it IMO. It will be extremely rewarding when it is successful and it makes you double in effort when it isn't. In my quest to finding the most stable, redundant, and powerful Nic Fit deck, however, I don't think Gifts is ideal in a competitive Legacy environment.

Gifts is slow. It is Jace-slow, but it is also Jace-strong. It has different strengths, and different weaknesses.

To answer the question about Bayous, no you don't need three. I have a beautiful playset of Earl Grant Bayous and I rarely play more than two. A 2/2/1 split of Duals alongside 7 Basics is very solid for Nic Fit. Fetches are superior to Duals in Nic Fit because you will always have Basics available and the right combination of Fetches in the early stages often allows you to go all basics for the first 2-4 turns. Constructing your manabase in the first turns is one of the most crucial things against any deck packing a playset of Wastelands and/or looking to Daze/Pierce your lifelines.

On a different note, I have tested Trinket Mage and have liked it. I don't think it is the best thing because it takes up a lot of deck space and doesn't bring anything new to the deck. What it does, however, is give it more consistency, and that's something to value. It is definitely fun to play, but I think we're not taking enough from of a 1CMC artifact toolbox.

PS: Oh yeah, Glissa blows...

I've inspired two local players to take up Nic-Fit. One plays BG, the other the Gifts version. I played against the Gifts one the other day and was shocked how slow it plays. I had the feeling you're more busy doing strange things trying to win instead of just winning. That my opponent having just started playing the deck could be a factor here, but still. I don't think you need it to win but if you like having a hard time by all means play it. I wouldn't. :wink: It's definately not an easy deck to play and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone but really good players.

I'm in love with Genesis+Gigapede+Eternal Witness pile for Intuition. In fact, I might throw in some random spell and use this as my goto Gifts Ungiven package.

EDIT: Nevermind; Genesis and Gigapede in the hand really, really sucks >_< Still good with Intuition though

Is it worth having Angel of Despair in the sideboard vs. Show and Tell? I play GB Nic Fit and there is quite a bit of Show and Tell in my local meta. This matchup is very poor, but having 3x Angel of Despair in the Sideboard would maybe make it a bit easier. At the last tournament 10 people showed up and there were 3 Show and Tell-decks: Sneak Attack, Omniscience and Hive Mind.

Bottoms-up:

Vicar -- this isn't a horrible idea. If not for the Sneak player I'd say just run Woodfall Primus instead, because that takes out both of the offending enchantments while actually being, you know, castable/Zenithable. Sneak makes that a little more awkward, though. G/B unfortunately has much fewer ways to defend itself vs Show and Tell (in my opinion), so running some off-color options is probably necessary, unfortunately. Sneak might get wise to you and opt to Sneak/Breach instead of Show, but a lot of Show players are fucking retarded when it comes to Nic Fit and just Show whenever they feel like it postboard, regardless of what we might do to their asshole. Unlike Maverick, we can actually run cards that are not named Karakas that piss them off. OmniTell and Hive Mind are both pretty much locked into Showing, though.

Depending on what the rest of your meta is, you might want to switch to a BUG build, as BUG has additional discard and can also fight them on the stack. Also, Baleful Strix really, really infuriates Emrakul if you have more than 6 permanents. That sounds horrible, I know, but it's really far from impossible for Nic Fit to recover after soaking an Emrakul hit -- I've done it plenty of times. If the Show decks were more Emrakul-based I'd recommend Rector, but Rector lacks a bit vs Hive Mind, whereas BUG is just solidly good vs all of them. Food for thought.

ELC -- Why jump through the extra hoop? You can just Gifts for Genesis + E.Wit and entomb both of them. Alternatively, you could start experimenting with Jarad's Orders. Someone's going to have to sooner or later -- if there's a deck in legacy that wants it, we're it. I know that just because I think it's worse than Gifts doesn't mean it is, and I'll at least be fiddling around with it.

Nelis -- Sweet =) The BUG versions are definitely more durdly-seeming than the other splashes. I think some of that is just because of the nature of blue...it tends to durdle around until it kills you.

Gifts in general -- I suspect that at some point in the next year or two, Wizards will either print something that enables a degenerate combo-win pile in legacy, or it already exists somewhere and we'll discover it ourselves. Probably not something Time Vault - Voltaic Key - Yawgmoth's Will - Regrowth degenerate, but something that allows you to just Gifts and win. Furthermore, I suspect that the lack of a "winning" Gifts pile is what's keeping Gifts down in general as compared to the other versions. Gifts should be BUG's version of Rector/Scapeshift -- aka, when you resolve it, you win. It just isn't there right now. I mean yeah, it's a good card and it does a lot of good work...but it doesn't actively win the game.

And for people who will say that Rector doesn't win the game either, trust me, it does. It's not as obvious about it as Scapewish, but the Rector build is built around inevitability. Either you're out-CAing them with Arena, unleashing a devastating board wipe, locking them out of combat, or setting up Nightmare loops. It's not as simple as "Rector -> scoop," but it may as well be.

But yeah, that aside....aside, I think that's what Gifts is missing. I actually entertained the idea of making the pile of: Thopter Foundry - Sword of the Meek - Academy Ruins - Life from the Loam once upon a time, because technically it IS a combo that we can assemble with one Gifts. I feel like there has to be something better, but maybe it's like Rector and the inevitability is all it needs.

Trinket Mage -- I feel like, for blue versions, it could theoretically reduce the number of Tops you need in your deck to 1, as the first Trinket Mage would almost certainly grab a Top unless you really needed something else. However, I'm not sure that 3U for a 2/2 and a Top is better than just 1 for a Top, even recognizing that you might draw extras. The unfortunate thing about Trinket Mage is that we can't take advantage of most of its targets that "stick around," like Pithing Needle, Basilisk Collar, etc, due to Deed. We pretty much have to stick to Spellbomb-like cards...we can't even use him as a mana-fixer because the artifact lands (nee Citadel) all die to Deed as well. So awkward.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

I'm in love with Genesis+Gigapede+Eternal Witness pile for Intuition. In fact, I might throw in some random spell and use this as my goto Gifts Ungiven package.

EDIT: Nevermind; Genesis and Gigapede in the hand really, really sucks >_< Still good with Intuition though

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Try therapy instead of gigapede to make sure what you want in the graveyard goes to the graveyard.

@Qweerios: I tried your BUG list with 2 abrupt decay in the place of one pulse and 1 thing I can't remember. So 2 Jace, 2 Lili, 1 Garruk, 2 AD. Something feels missing... I can't put my finger on it, but I'm thinking it's the lack of drawing through your deck/card advantage that coiling oracle/strix and a sphinx give. I think that having carpet of flowers in the sideboard with oracles in the main may be better than just having birds in the main.

sumbahdy: having 2/3 planeswalkers on the battlefield at the same time is awesome. They each work together to protect the other one. But getting there with gifts doesn't always happen. A lot of times I have to use gifts to get myself out of jams since we apply 0 pressure. So it usually gets me removal and deeds. I don't know if not using gifts is better than using it, but as above I am trying the deck without it as well.

Hi guys, I'm testing Garruk, Primal Hunter in BUG version too, but the GGG sometimes are hard to have, so i'm trying Garruk Relentless or maybe after RTR is Vraska the go-to-girl as fifth planeswalker (i already play 2 Jace and 2 Liliana)?? ;)