[Deck] Turbo Depths

I cannot imagine playing this deck without Steppe, Ghost Quarter, or Bog. My thoughts:

Against the fast combo decks, Bog can mess up Dredge, Storm, and Reanimator. Otherwise, our only interaction with these decks is Discard + Needles, and Needle isn't very effective against those decks.

Against Wasteland decks, having Crop Rot -> Ghost Quarter is quite nice because you don't need additional mana to disrupt their Wasteland, meaning you need only Stage + 2 mana + Crop Rot mana instead of double stage activation or something.

Against all sorts of decks, Steppe wins games. StP decks are embarrassing to play against if you don't have Crop Rot -> Steppe or Sylvan Safekeeper / Not of This World. I cannot imagine playing against an StP deck with your version, so D+T, Miracles, and the various Stoneblade versions seem very hard. Besides StP decks, you need Steppe to get through other Marit Lages, Delver chump blocks when they have lethal damage on crackback, Strix chump blocks when they're going to use Lily or Jace to kill Lage, Cavern Harpy blocks when you don't have Needle against Aluren...

Against Lands, not having GQ, Steppe, or Bog makes the matchup unwinnable. Without GQ you can't kill a Glacial Chasm without exposing yourself to Wasteland/GQ. It can be very awkward to play this matchup (or the mirror) without Steppe, even with Karakas side because you might need to Needle it, because you don't have a GQ. Without Bog, you don't have a way to shut off Loam engines that beat us.

These three *tutorable* answers are a must. I understand that you have ways to disrupt some of these things otherwise, with Needle or removal or multiple Stage activations, especially considering you have Stirrings to find Needle. However, in my experience I have *needed* these three effects. Not having Bog swings the Reanimator matchup from favorable to probably not favorable(?). Other effects are less noticeable but they contribute to win percentages across the board.

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Originally Posted by PeterSouth

Ok, this is starting to sound like a win-more card. Then I think about more restrictions. The threat must be targeting Lage and colored and I probably need a crop rotation in hand and green mana which I don't have much in my deck to utilize it, and then after I use it I lost a land .

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While it does protect against things like Swords and such, Steps also allows you to make the Lage unblockable. I've won countless games where my opponents has turtled behind a couple of Strixes, only to have me crop rotated into a Steps and give it pro-blue so I can swing right past them for the win.

Steps is definitely not a Win-More card, as you have proposed. There are many games where we would not be winning at all without it.

I think semi recently in my tourney report here for GP Chiba I repeatedly laid down Steppe for the immediate concession against Delvers on block duty. It's extremely important, don't leave home without it. Seriously.

Steppe is vital to beating the strix.dec and other rando flyers like clique/harpy/Delver where they can block a ton while draining you with DRS. A lot of times vs Delver, they'll have you at a low enough life total where a crackback will kill you. Steppe lets you get past the delvers and other junk.

Hello boys,
I’m mostly agree with your comments about Steppe, Ghost Quarter, and Bog, but with certain preventions.
Ghost Quarter is always great
Steppe is a great card for this deck,sometimes a wincon, it is true. The only point is that you must sideboard it out against eldrazi and artifact decks
My feeling with Bojuka Bog is not so good. I have the Bog in the 60s but in second game it is faster sideboarded out, perhaps because I have founding few decks heavily playing with GY in my current meta and in other cases…Bog can be a really bad draw because a tapped landdrop in a legacy match can be very good… for our opponent.

Bog is useful g1 vs ANT, Reanimator, Dredge and Lands. According to mtgtop8 thats 14% of the meta. Not so bad. Also consider that those decks are all bad/unfavoured for us and in my experience Bog vastly increase the chance to win. Its only 1 slot.

Versus ANT for example we have zero interaction, I would not consider discards interaction because without Bog they have free access to PiF lines and graveyard become an extention of their hand. If you win G1 things get easier because you can cut the useless Needles for spheres/MBT/surgical while they only have bounces spells for Lage (already answered by Safekeeper).

Did anyone tryied root maze or have an oppinion on it instead of a 4off discard.
I am now back to "classic" tubo list with 4 off guide 4 off petal my previous builds where too slow but I am liking the root maze in the place of discard, turn one root maze on the play is double time walk agaist delver decks and lot of others decks.
You need to cut the fetchlands though
I am not sold on discard against fow, the card you need to resolve is mainly pithing needle and they can hide their fow with brainstorm. You have billions of tutors they need to counter other way.

Diabolic edict is problematic I have only the three sylvan safekeeper and one off mishra.

Lost legacy anyone in side against miracle which now play only swords as a removal. It is also really good against combo show and tell/storm etc...

Maybe i need the bog maindeck instead of factory.


// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Expedition Map
4 Pithing Needle
3 Lotus Petal

// 11 Creature
4 Vampire Hexmage
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
3 Sylvan Safekeeper

// 5 Enchantment
4 Root Maze /
Xantid swarm /
thoughtseize /
1 Sylvan Library

// 4 Instant
4 Crop Rotation

// 25 Land
4 Blooming Marsh
4 Llanowar Wastes
4 Thespian's Stage
4 Dark Depths
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Sejiri Steppe
1 Bojuka bog

// 4 Sorcery
4 Sylvan Scrying


// 15 Sideboard
// 7 Instant
SB: 3 Surgical Extraction
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay

// 2 Land
SB: 1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
SB: 1 Mishra's factory

// 6 Sorcery
SB: 4 Lost Legacy
SB: 2 Rite of Consumption



EDIT :

I tested root maze a bit and the card has high variance sometimes it is very good when on the play sometimes it comes too late, for now I am testing others options mainly discard and xantid swarm.

I played Root maze for a littlebit in the SB back when Miracles had top and it was just alright. it was never busted.

Petals/ESGs are significantly better with discard if you're worried about G Delver forcing your needles. you can always go T1 Discard+Fast mana/needle.

You're opening yourself up to force of will by not playing discard.

They have so many irrelevant cards that the loss in cards makes it worth it.

Edict is annoying but only in conjunction with pressure/waste+countermagic.

How do you have any chances vs combo decks without discard? Lost legacy is often too slow vs ANT/ and sneak can always pierce it. Discard lets you get fight through the counters.

I have found root maze really good on the play, on the draw i side them out for decay usually.
Root maze is good vs ant making their led /petal comes into play tapped it isbetter than discard slow them more.
Lost legacy turn two with an accelration can be devastating against combo.

But I think now that the deck sees some play hate is huge, grixis tempo after side is not so good with 2 Edict (some plays dead/gone)+ answers to your needle and surgicals. I have found the matchup completely changed after side.
4C has 3 edict after side + snappies. I think we have to find a way to play around edict don't know if it being khalni garden or such, but hate is everywhere and this deck is easy to hate.

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Originally Posted by adrieng

led

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Doesn't have a tap requirement in its activation cost.

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I think we have to find a way to play around edict

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Like discard, hardcasting Elvish Spirit Guides, Sylvan Safekeeper, Surgical Extraction and Ground Seal vs Snap, Mishra's Factory/Dryad Arbor?

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and this deck is easy to hate

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Without playing Lands or having Wasteland+Surgical+Edict (successfully) or Blood Moon, not really?

Any tempo decks with a 4 off repeal/vapor snag in side will crush this deck hard, don't say the deck is hard to hate. The deck is good because he doesn't see a lot of play but it is easy to hate.
You have only 3 safekeeper as an answer to repeal or vapor snag right ?
Deck is easy to hate out. But people prefer playing better cards in side for now.
Diabolic edict are not only for DD, other way they would likely play repeal.
Even 4 off dead gone is enough to beat turbo depth conistently in any tempo decks.

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Originally Posted by adrieng

Any tempo decks with a 4 off repeal/vapor snag in side will crush this deck hard, don't say the deck is hard to hate. The deck is good because he doesn't see a lot of play but it is easy to hate.
You have only 3 safekeeper as an answer to repeal or vapor snag right ?
Deck is easy to hate out. But people prefer playing better cards in side for now.
Diabolic edict are not only for DD, other way they would likely play repeal.
Even 4 off dead gone is enough to beat turbo depth conistently in any tempo decks.

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What kind of absurd metas are you playing in where people have playsets of Repeal (??), Vapor Snag, or Dead // Gone in the sideboard? :eek:

Anyway, if hate ever increased to that level it's not like our deck wouldn't adapt and respond too, whether it's a full set of Sylvan Safekeepers or deciding that Steely Resolve is worth the anti-synergy with Seijiri Steppe.

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Originally Posted by filln

What kind of absurd metas are you playing in where people have playsets of Repeal (??), Vapor Snag, or Dead // Gone in the sideboard? :eek:

Anyway, if hate ever increased to that level it's not like our deck wouldn't adapt and respond too, whether it's a full set of Sylvan Safekeepers or deciding that Steely Resolve is worth the anti-synergy with Seijiri Steppe.

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Those metas are clearly fantastical, but Dead / Gone is becoming a normal slot in Grixis Delver sideboards. I ran into it twice at Grand Prix Seattle, one of whom was Noah Walker who made top8. But as a one-of. The stuff this guy is claiming is not exactly real. :P

I also have run a single Steely Resolve in my board for a couple months and it’s been terrific, it single-handedly wins the Death and Taxes and Miracles matchups.

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Any tempo decks with a 4 off repeal/vapor snag in side will crush this deck hard, don't say the deck is hard to hate.

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What the fuck are you talking about

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Originally Posted by Di

I also have run a single Steely Resolve in my board for a couple months and it’s been terrific, it single-handedly wins the Death and Taxes and Miracles matchups.

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Steely Resolve is straight fire. I don't like not having access to it in the 75. My sb has been tighter though since adopting some Surgicals which I normally do not play.

Quick question.

How often do you actually play depths? Edicts are incredibly common these days which led us toward safekeeper. The popularity of this deck has gone significantly up in the past year. The fact that edict has become a mainstay of side boards/main boards definitely supports this. People know how the deck works and you can't often get people anymore through ther lack of knowledge. Dead/gone is at most a 2 of in delver sbs. If decks.move toward that, we can play notw, steely, and more safekeepers. The reason why this deck is good is due to its resiliency toward hate as well as its speed. 8 discard spells, decay, needles, rite, safekeeper all go a long way toward beating the typical hate cards.

The idea seems weird but did anyone tryied xantid swarm
two roles for the card it can protect from edict and avoid counters. I know it can be hit by bolt but whatver seems fair to me.
It can't attack through baleful strix though but delver should attack or it would stop their clock and you can still attack the turn you want to crop/ cast vampire.
Anyone has an opinion on it ?


What I was meaning with the 4 off bounce is that if people pack 4 off leyline just for dredge and turbo rea, why not packing 4 off bounce just for lands and turbo depth ? which is overall the same percent of the field or even more.
It is not what they do for now, but it can be done and here the deck will fall down.

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Originally Posted by adrieng

The idea seems weird but did anyone tryied xantid swarm
two roles for the card it can protect from edict and avoid counters. I know it can be hit by bolt but whatver seems fair to me.
It can't attack through baleful strix though but delver should attack or it would stop their clock and you can still attack the turn you want to crop/ cast vampire.
Anyone has an opinion on it ?

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When delver wins, it usually isn't because of the counters imo. Daze is often easy to play around and depths has truckloads of discard and redundancy to play through the rest. When they win its usually through a fast clock backed up by either Wasteland(s), or Grudge/Abrade for needle plus wasteland, or answers like edict/gone/needle. There are much better methods for dealing with Edict including fetches + Arbor, Factory, Safekeepers, Hexmage, ESG, etc. Swarm does nothing against hate cards like dead/gone or Needle.

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Originally Posted by solnox

If decks.move toward that, we can play notw, steely, and more safekeepers.

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I'm actually curious about Steely Resolve, as it's one of the only sideboard cards I haven't yet tested. I assume most people have shied away from it because of the non-bo with Steppe and the relative lack of Swords to Plowshares in the meta making it unnecessary. I understand its role in matchups like DnT and Miracles, maybe something like Maverick (though it would make their potential Marit Lages have shroud, too, so you might not even want it there, right?), but are there other matchups for it? In this imagined metagame of 4x bounce spells in sideboards -- which seems farfetched -- would Steely, Safekeeper #4, or Not of this World be your first choice card to combat this?

Thanks.

In the world of a sb of 4x bounce, id play 4 sylvan safekeeper.

As negator said, when losing to delver, it's a combination of a quick clock +just enough disruption to stop you.

“Slow Depths” took the Eternal Weekend Europe!

https://www.magicbazar.fr/article/52...l_weekend_2018