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guys how do u board in against sneak and show decks?? , is impossible to win for me in that matchup , sure pyroblast hits show and tell , but they have like tons of counterspell (missdirection,fow,spell pierce) , and also they have sneak as a backup plan , that is just imposible to remove...
Hello there ;)
Well, I was watching yesterday Legacy Starcity open and let me say: "That burn player....meh:confused:" ... What was that? He could have won the game to the Protean Hulk combo guy by simply destroying both creatures with a Chain and a Fireblast and his opponent wouldn't be able to play the Pact! Well, anyway....Sometimes I make ever worse mistakes ahah :laugh:
Going on...
Sneak and Show...hmm... Game 1 should be ours if we're a bit lucky but I believe it's not very favorable to the burn player.
The only big solutions you have is to bring blasts sure (good solutions indeed) and Ratchet Bomb or Powder Keg (which is very very slow and ineffective)
In the past days I used to have Phyrexian Metamorph for Iona but can also be a solution.
And I think I don't have much more things to say.
Hope it helps ;)
Yes, the Sneak/Show matchup is bothering me too as I expect the deck to have significant presence in my local meta over the next few weeks. IMO it's not a favourable match for us at all.
At the moment, the best I can think of is to load up on REB/Pyroblasts for S&T/counterspells and use Pithing Needle against Sneak Attack. I'd personally write off game 1 against Sneak/Show which means we then need to win the next two. The worry is they'll board in Leylines post G1 which we need to then dedicate even more SB slots to overcoming, thus watering down our deck even more.
If there are any other SB suggestions against Sneak/Show, I'd love to hear them.
I think that there aren't any options against Sneak Show. Burn ist a straightforeward deck which is pretty strong but loses agains certain cards/synergies... Playing burn means that you know that you may lose to ridiculous situations. Of course we have a lot of great SB cards but agains some decks things are not going well at all. So the best way to "beat" Sneak Show ist simply trying to be faster than they are and to hope that you don't have to play agains them. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Firstborn
My current SB looks like this:
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Faerie Macabre
1 Sulfuric Vortex
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Smash to Smithereens
Pyroblast
Red Elemental Blast
Pithing Needle
Anarchy
basically is what you need to beat Sneak and Show. Unfortunately you also need a way to beat combo and Reanimator.
if you add green via Fetch Lands and Taiga you could use Hull Breach, or any green enchantment killer to get rid of Leyline. Personally I like Anarchy, but I know a lot of people feel its too slow.
I think, we can beat any Delver, Stoneblade, Maverick build without the sideboard. maybe we should just build a sideboard for Reanimator, Dredge, Storm, and Sneak Show.
Pyroblast and Red Elemental take care of parts of Reanimator, Storm, Sneak and show. Grafdigger's (or any thing you like) will takeout Reanimator, and Dredge. Pithing Needle will take care of Sneak and Show.
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 REB
3 Pyroblast
3 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Pithing Needle
Is what I would go for. Maybe I don't know.
Maybe its time we adapted Burn to evolving Meta. Every other deck in the format Evolves every so often, we really cant be so arrogant to think Burn is susceptible to needed changes.
why not Ensnaring Bridge? its slow, you wouldnt be able to drop it until turn three without help that might hinder the deck, but it would shut off Sneak and Show. they run two cards in their whole 75 that could get rid of it without counter magic, and we can run 8 spells that counter blue spells.
you could use Bridge against Maverick, most people I play against side out Pridemage to Burn because it is basically useless... you might be able to steal a game dropping an Ensnaring Bridge on them. Just a thought. Not even a very good one, but these decks are getting harder and harder to deal with.
I'm thinking of doing exactly that. Reanimator/Dredge/Storm/Sneak are the big four decks in my meta which worry me.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo
I wonder about splashing white via Plateau/Arid Mesa for Disenchant against Leylines. Another option against Sneak Attack too.Quote:
Originally Posted by iamfrightenedtoo
Assuming this is the case, maybe a SB from the following:
Disenchant
REB and/or Pyroblast
Pithing Needle
Grafdigger's Cage
perhaps Ensnaring Bridge
Thoughts?
What about progenitus in the sideboard? , if they show and tell , we just put the progenitus and we attack first , finish the match quickly... , and what about chaos warp , it kills sneak attack and leyline...
Just like CabalTherapy said, we have to accept that in some matchups the only choice we have is to try to burn them out as fast as possible.
Well, this is the eternal question.....TEST people, TEST :)
Want to splash green, you'll open yourself to wasteland but be able to blow enchantments.
Want to splash white, same thing.
Wastelands are all around so I would not advise you to splash another color.
Ensnaring Bridge, Chaos Warp,... are the best choices we have without splashing.
For white, Disenchant,etc.
For green, Hull breach, naturalize, krosan grip,etc.
Progenitus? Do you think is profitable to waste 1 slot on the sideboard just to be able to slow down the Sneak&Show player? I don't think so. They still have Emrakul which blows your permanents...
For my experience, especially in this meta, I wouldn't splash another color. But test and see if it's profitable.
Go Burn ;)
Ensnaring Bridge and Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast seem to be the most reliable choices here, given that we won't really need to alter the deck configuration too much to support it, and that these cards could also possibly be useful in other match-ups. Unfortunately, though, it's true that the Sneaky Show match-up, along with Reanimator, Dredge, and Storm-based decks, are all uphill battles for Burn, and we'll really have to accept the fact that, being the hyper-linear archetype that it is, Burn will have a weaknesses against combo decks.
Good luck :smile:
Kind Regards,
jares
after lots and lots of testing , i have to say sneak and show , is the most difficult matchup for burn , even more difficult than dredge or reanimator , you dont have profitable ways to interact with them , except crazy sideboard hands with 3 pyroblast and 1 pithing needle.. is just unwinnable, is like playing vs ultrafast combo decks like belcher..
I really don't like splashing in burn. Fetch lands basically will lose you the game far too often vs Delver, between the life loss in an already tight matchup, to the complete blowout you face if you keep a 2 lander and one gets stifled. I have found the best way to beat lay line is Pillar + creatures. It works.
Right now I am running:
3 Bridge/Fallout
3 Pillar
3 Macabre
3 REB
3 Smash to Smithereens
I like it when threads illustrate my point completely about Show and Tell being stupid.
Run this sideboard:
4 Pithing Needle
4 Surgical Extraction
7 Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast
Against Sneak and Show, Board in all 15 cards. Board out a lot of your slower burn - You only need a couple dudes on the ground to win this matchup. Then just screw with them. Needle Sneak Attack. Counter Show and Tell, or Force, or Dig, or whatever. Surgical anything you don't want to see or think they're holding, or Surgical to get information on the situation.
Needle will solve a lot of your other problems, and all the blasts will give you game against pretty much anything. If you want RUG Delver improvement, you could go to 6 Blasts, 3 Surgicals, and 2 Relic of Progenitus. Or you can just try to be burn and win.
"grant me the strength to accept the things I cannot change,
he courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference"
Let me give you a hint: we lose to Sneak Attack/Show n Tell. Accept it.
Focusing on trying to better your chance against SA/SnT is a lost cause. Sure stack you SB with 6-8 cards for it (most of which are useless against other problem match-ups or we would already be running them), but what do you pull out to put them in? All you can do is go slower post board and that just gives the SA/SnT player time to get the combo and counters to protect it. And, even with 6-8 cards in the SB for it you will never make it a favorable match-up. Focus on match-ups you can effect.
Hey guys, I'm running the traditional burn deck with Goblin Guides, Hellspark Elemental, and Keldon Marauders as my creatures.
My sideboard has the following cards:
Smash to Smithereens
Faerie Macabre
Pyroblast/REB
Pyrostatic Pillar
Chaos Warp (for COP red)
Volcanic Fallout
All the cards are vital in the deck for us to win. My question is what cards do we take out for certain match ups. If I'm adding pyro/reb and Pyrostatic Pillar for U/R or RUG Delver, what cards would I take out?
It depends on your list really. I usually drop my 4 Flame Rift and 2 Keldon vs those two for 3 Pillar and 3 REB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angels
yes , drop flame rift , and use red elemental blast to protect your price of progress , play araound daze and if you dont have pressure you should play around spell pierce too , dont burn creatures vs RUG , becuase they will side in scavening ooze that will give them some life to survive , chump blocking with marauder is mvp here..
My friend won an Unlimited Mox Pearl with this list:
4 Goblin Guide
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Hellspark Elemental
4 Vexing Devil
4 Fireblast
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Flame Rift
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
17 Mountain
2 Barbarian Ring
SB:
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Pyrostatic Pillar (MVP as it locks decks)
2 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Reroute
2 Shattering Spree
Rd1 loss to AnT
Rd2-4 win against Delvers (Not sure if Canadian or Delver Burn)
Rd5 win against Mirror
Rd6 win against Landstill
Quarterfinal win against Landstill
Semifinal win against W/G Maverick?
Final win against WBG Maverick?
His final win was against me. 2-0. Deadguy Ale.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Round 2-4: one Canadian Thresh, one Team America, and not sure the other one.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Deck list after seeing minor success for burn in Starcity's Worcester Open 2012:
4 Goblin Guide
3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Keldon marauder
3 Vexing Devil
4 Lightning bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Searing Blaze
2 Flame Rift
10 Red Fetch
9 Mountains
Sideboard:
2 Surgical extraction
2 Tormad's Crypt
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Red elemental blast
2 Smash to smithereens
2 Sulfuric vortex
Short explanation for deck changes: Stifle seems to be getting less play in decks like Rug delver, so fetch lands are more safe to play. Vexing devil may help Grim lava mancer along with the fetch lands to optimize Grim lava mancer activated ability. Besides combo decks, cards like searing blaze assisted by fetch lands can help create a 2 for 1 effect which does not happen often in burn. Maverick has been a hard match up for generic burn (Samual Davis build) and this version of the deck will help the agro match up. My side board is mostly dedicated to combo decks to make up for what my list lacks in beating combo. Losing hell spark elemental is rough, but the card is slow and poor against other creature decks. I'd appreciate some insight.
Ps: whats a good sideboard card for burn against show and tell (besided rebs and pyroblasts).