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Snuff Out is free. Swords isnt. Also, sideboard e. plague is much better than absolute law vs goblins as it proactively fights them. Absolute Law doesn't stop goblins from getting out a shit ton of guys and running through you with piledriver. Plague does. Now likely the white splash is better. But making the assumption without testing seems poor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Doing a survey. On average, how many cards would a 4 fetch/3 dual/3 Waste Merfolk deck have in their Graveyard at a given time?Quote:
Originally Posted by DukeDemonKn1ght
Anyway, you seem to be arguing just to say, "Black should be tested [by someone else]." You're not even saying you think it's good anymore, in fact, you're saying you're pretty sure that it sucks shit, just that someone else should waste his or her time with the fruitless busy work that you hand down from your ivory tower.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Kruchkow
If you're not convinced by my position (my argument is basically that it shouldn't be tested and your time is better spent discussing whether Merfolks have sex or spawn -- seriously that keeps me up at night), then go test it yourself.
Obviously Merfolk have weird fish-sex. But then the human part of their consciousness (which we can assume to be the greater half, since they have a person-brain) makes them feel all gross and self-conscious about only being able to have fish sex.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
And then they take out these feelings of anxiety by beating some ass. That's how this deck was born. :tongue:
Have been. Im saying that one persons testing validates nothing unless they put up numbers and since i live near no legacy tourneys,perhaps someone else would try it, like it and place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forbiddian
Further, im not saying that im sure it sucks shit. Im saying swords is really freaking good. Its better than snuff out period. the question is really who offers better sideboard options.
I haven't been testing any of this, but how is E plague sideboard better than an extra 4 Path to Exile against goblins?
Or any aggro deck for that matter?
You don't have cantrips to search for the E plagues. E plagues in multiples ruin goblins, but e plagues in 1s don't, as I'm sure you know.
Also, I would wager that every Goblin player who has green in their sideboard (as well as elves), boards in K grips just to blow up your possible Jittes that you bring in. If you really want to screw over a tribal deck just play 8 swords/path in your 75 and hope to god they don't hit a god hand and wreck you.
Paying 4 life to kill a goyf while not being able to kill a Tombstalker is pretty bad for me. The only good thing is it dodges counterbalance, but if they play counterbalance then you have a good shot at just swimming through anyway.
Also, goblins play lords now, at least the tournament reports I've read, just to combat the E plagues, so I really don't think it's relevant. Last but not least, the mirror match. You sure as hell would rather have the swords and paths than the E plagues there haha.
True, 1 doesn't wreck goblins. But 1 plague will slow them down enough that we can keep up alongside snuff out. And against elves, 1 plague can easily buy enough time. And yeah, not hitting stalker/bob sucks, but there are other black removal spells. And yes, 8 path/stp is nice but you still need to hope they dont have a good draw. And the issue ive had with tons of path and such mainboard is that, especially against zoo, if you dont have an aggressive draw with the removal, they just sit back on burn and win in the long game. But maybe thats why its a terrible matchup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition
The path would be in the sideboard, so against zoo you could board them in if you wanted to. The E plagues would always suck against them whereas the paths can be okay.
But against goblins, the plague drops the same turn that their lord will drop, assuming they don't wasteland or port. Against elves, it will drop a turn after their lord drops, at the earliest since they play so many mana elves.
I am much more worried about killing their lackies and killing the lords than killing the peons against these decks, so extra spot removal is almost definitely better, unless you can fight them off early. Which merfolk can't, with a total of 1 good 1cc creature.
And also, my other point still stands that they can just k grip your sideboard hate and be at even, but the spot removal can really slow them down (especially against Piledrivers, warchiefs, lackey, new lackey, and Priest of Titania or Archmage).
Merfolk won last saturday the Finnish legacy champs (89 players.) Looked like a pretty standard build.
Why not play Tivadar's Crusade if goblins scare you people so much?
Double white = bad. If the card was 2w, then my guess is it would make the goblin matchup something near favorable. Between your fast pressure and one sided board sweeps, you'd basically rock their socks. Sadly, at 1ww, it's just not castable especially against a deck that runs wastelands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volrath
EDIT: Where'd you find the list for the finnish legacy champs?
Actually it wasn't that much of a standard because he played brainstorm and fetches and there were also main deck cliques instead of sovereigns or wake thrashers. The finals were extremely close against survival but he's a great player and managed to win. I played pretty much what I think is a standard list (list posted few pages ago) to 5-2 record but it wasn't enough to top 8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I lost to Eva Green and MossNought. Wins came against Re-Animator, Ultimate Walker, Dragon Stompy, Armageddon Stax and Mirror.
EDIT: The deck lists from Finnish legacy champs will probably soon appear in deck check
I am currently testing Boomerang. It seems decent-to-good so far. Right now, it is in the Standstill slot, however I am not sure if I want to leave it that way.
Against a lot of decks, like Zoo, using Stifle on a "sac land" and a Wasteland on a dual land was almost enough to put them away by itself. Now I can Boomerang a critter OR another land which is a great tempo boost. Especially when playing with Daze and Cursecatcher.
I don't really get how Boomeranging a creature that cost less than Boomerang is a tempo boost.Quote:
Originally Posted by P.S.
Or Boomerang on a land doesn't seem too great against Zoo, who can play their whole hand out from 2 land, and/or curve out extremely nicely and take full advantage of a turn with fewer mana. I think you need to develop your board more and take fewer pseudo Timewalks.
Given, Standstill is a bad card against Zoo as well (and Boomerang might be a lot better), but like yeesh that's scraping the bottom of the barrel.
Waterfront Bouncer seems to fit almost the same role and it's quite terrible.
I agree, seems like wasting a turn using Boomerang is tempo loss. The UU makes it a no go for me and echoing truth is just better. Unsummon for U is better. VS Zoo you want to side out standstill but def not for a boomerang
Merfolk is not a land destruction deck
Thats it!!! I cant seem to win against my brother's BR Gobs! Is Gobs really a bad matchup? My list has:
2 M. Sovereign
2 Wake Thrasher
4 LoA
4 Reejerey
4 Cosis Trickster
4 S. Adept
1 Kira
4 Vials
3 Standstills
2 Shackles
3 Daze
3 Stifle
4 FoWs
SB looks like:
3 BEB
1 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
1 Misdirection
2 Annul
3 Relics
2 Echoing Truth
His annoying decks packs a lot of removals namely:
3 Smothers
4 Bolts
2 Warren Weirdings
2 Gempalms
I cant seem to F'in WIN!!!!! Aaaarrrhhhh!!!!
Easy solution.
Switch decks.
You can't win every matchup. If you metagame so heavily against goblins then your deck will be horrible.
Verbal warning for spam. Don't do that. - Bardo
I don't like your sideboard and since you are saying you want to beat goblins put more anti-red cards in there. Are you running 4 wastelands and 4 mutavaults? If you are I think you should remove the shackles (even if you are not I still think it costs to much). I would main echoing truth.
I also don't like the trickster or kira, I think it should be cursecatcher and another lord.
Apparently, you can Stifle Goblin Piledriver's blow-up ability when attacking (since you are targeting the trigger and not Goblin Piledriver himself)
You can also use Stifle to 'enters the battlefield' triggers, so Goblin Matron, Ringleader, Siege-Gang Commander renders useless. You can also use it with their Goblin Lackey's and Warren Instigator's and even opposing Vial's 'put into play' cheat. Also, some versions run Fetchlands (we all know about Stifles and Fetchlands) and opposing Wastelands.
Also, Cycling is an activated ability... counterable by Stifle
The main point: Stifle can be good against Goblins. The worse comes to worst, you can always pitch Stifle to Force of Will.