[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

Peacekeeper is only good against merfolk/decks with zero removal. And if peacekeeper see's a lot of play, you can bet that the merfolk players will adapt to fight peacekeeper. Mono blue merfolk has echoing truth and wipe away. Ub merfolk could just pack smother, doom blade, any number of removal spells to kill peacekeeper. Peacekeeper is not that good now that survival is gone; to me, it should just go back to being jank again, now that survival is gone. Where was peacekeeper when survival had not yet surfaced? No one had even heard of the card and if they did, thought it was jank because zoo bolts it, goblins warren weirdings' it or gempalm's it or flings a goblin at it with siege gang or they fling a ton of goblins at your face to kill you. Swords is the better card.

And perish is amazing; it kills goyf, knight of the reliquary, all of new horizon's creatures, elves, wild nacatl, qasali pridemage...the list goes on. The card is amazing. It even kills progenitus and argothian enchantress lol. I don't see a reason to not run it unless your entire meta is combo, goblins, and merfolk.

Peacekeeper is there in large part to beat Merfolk, and it will beat Merfolk consistently where Firespout does not.

Peacekeeper is also good againts reanimator

I'm still asking though: what's your strategy in using it? How are you utilizing to beat Merfolk? Are you waiting until you build up 2 Noughts and plowing through, or waiting for Jace?

-Matt

Jace is my go to in that instance, but pushing through 2 naught after an EE @2, then casting another peacekeeper has been done before. By the time you find what I want, I need the EE too.

Here is the basic Peacekeeper plan.

Find the Basic Plains, and resolve Peacekeeper. Then, just wait. Get to a position where you are pretty confident that you can make Jace resolve. Then, get Jace onto the battlefield and ramp up to his Ultimate. There's often little Merfolk can do once you've landed Peacekeeper.

Peacekeeper and Firespout are very different. Peacekeeper is not good against Goblins since she dies immediately. She's there for merfolk and Progenitus and other decks that have difficulty removing her.

She's decent against Dredge and Elves as well just to name a few.

My group is adapting to Peacekeeper though, you'll see UB Merfolk packing 3 Smothers (decent in other matchups as well). I think Peacekeeper may lose her potency until she becomes less-played again and sideboard choices change around again.

Last week, I was playing my MUD-stompy (Overseers) against Dreadstill. I figured boarding Winter Orb was a great idea against a deck that was hungry on mana (Countertop etc). Winter Orb is a random card that also shuts her down but I'm not sure how many aggro decks are capable of supporting Winter Orb in their sideboards.

Peacekeeper is only part of a larger plan. The real goal is to attack them with a quick Dreadnought. Only if this plan is not an available option should we fall back on Peacekeeper, which does a good job of stabilizing even the scariest of boards.

The real strength of Dreadstill is not because it can play a Peacekeeper with no answer from the opponent. Its strength is in its superior card manipulation. We are going to draw and look and see more cards than our opponent, and the Stifle/Nought and Peacekeeper plans are just outlets for this card manipulation.

If you're looking to play Peacekeeper as a hoser that the opponent cannot possibly beat, you will probably be disappointed. If you are looking to take your superior card manipulation, such as an active Bob, and turn that into a concrete advantage and not just an advantage in the number of cards in your hand, then Peacekeeper will allow you to do something very special. Like, what's the use of drawing a bunch of cards if none of them can stop their board presence? Peacekeeper allows us a way to turn card draw into board control, and if we're seeing more cards we're also likely able to protect it.

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Originally Posted by Morgothian

This is the final version of a URB Dreadstill list that me and my teammate Emiliano used from October 2010.

I attended 3 torunaments with this deck: I got 1° on 34 in the first one, 9° for rating (senseless, I was the highest in rating but one of my opponents decided to drop just before round 7...) on 106 in the second one and 10° on 76 in the third one, while Emiliano attended four torunaments and got 4° on 100 with a perfect 7-0-0 in the first one and 3° on 106 in the tournament I went 9°.

Previous versions of the list played Lightning Bolt maindeck and no Trinket Mages. We alays played 3 Brainstorm, which is the point generally insulted by others. So, here's the list:

Lands:

4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Badland
2 Island

Creatures

3 Grim Lavamancer
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage

Spells

4 Force of Will
3 Spell snare
3 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Brainstorm
2 Predict
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Engineered Explosives

Sideboard

1 Nature's Ruin
1 Perish
2 Firespout
2 Arc Trail
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb

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Against which Matchups do you bring the Arc Trails in ? (just Goblins?)

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Originally Posted by yutang

Hey guys

My meta is:

2x Solidarity
ANT
Belcher
2x Dredge
2x Merfolk
2x BUG Landstill
Show and Tell Emrakul
Goblins
Death and Taxes

I was thinking about picking up this deck against the above meta. What do you guys think of my first draft?

[DECK]
2 Volcanic Island
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tundra
4 Island

3 Trinket Mage
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought

2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
3 Daze
3 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Pierce
2 Trickbind
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm

Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Firespout
3 Red Elemental Blast
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
[/DECK]

Is my manabase stable enough?
Should I run Jace or increase my Spell Pierce/Standstill count?
Is my sideboard okay against my meta?
Is this even the right deck to run in my meta?

Thanks in advance!

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I tested with the above list against a number of aggro, combo and aggro-control decks. I felt that a UWR list with the white for swords in the MD was not as strong as Rood's original UR list (despite the lack of removal in his). I might be testing a UGR version with Goyfs, does anyone have a suggested list?

I came to a number of conclusions:

1) Spell Snare > Spell Pierce: As the maindeck already demolishes combo, I found spell snare to be extremely useful against my biggest threats (Qasali Pridemage, Goyf, Dark Confidant, opposing Dazes, Counterbalances, etc)

2) MD Swords was theoretically great but in practice, it turned out to be lacklustre. This deck can disregard most aggro creatures with a 12/12 trampler which ends matches. There was no need for removal (if playing as control, Mishra's would be sufficient) and if playing as combo, a 12/12 trampler would be enough.

3) The third splash was not worth the manabase instability for W.

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Originally Posted by yutang

1) Spell Snare > Spell Pierce: As the maindeck already demolishes combo, I found spell snare to be extremely useful against my biggest threats (Qasali Pridemage, Goyf, Dark Confidant, opposing Dazes, Counterbalances, etc)

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.... o_O

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Originally Posted by J.V.

.... o_O

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[irrelevant]I've Snared a Daze once playing Canadian in order to get goose threshed[/irrelevant]

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Originally Posted by J.V.

.... o_O

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Oops I meant Counterspell

~~~ ^_^

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Originally Posted by yutang

3) The third splash was not worth the manabase instability for W.

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I don't understand this. What are you afraid of? Your opponent's Wastelands might have a target?

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Originally Posted by yutang

I came to a number of conclusions:

1) Spell Snare > Spell Pierce: As the maindeck already demolishes combo, I found spell snare to be extremely useful against my biggest threats (Qasali Pridemage, Goyf, Dark Confidant, opposing Dazes (lol), Counterbalances, etc)

2) MD Swords was theoretically great but in practice, it turned out to be lacklustre. This deck can disregard most aggro creatures with a 12/12 trampler which ends matches. There was no need for removal (if playing as control, Mishra's would be sufficient) and if playing as combo, a 12/12 trampler would be enough. Yes, they are golden in some matchups, but usually not necessary game 1.

3) The third splash was not worth the manabase instability for W. Splash white for other reasons. *COUGH*Peacekeeper*COUGH* ... and EE @ 3.

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I've put together my sideboard notes for discussion. It's not very straightforward, and there are a number of routes one can take in any given matchup. Particularly, since Peacekeeper changes the whole gameplan if it resolves. I'm interested to see if my plans are significantly different from everyone else's.

Maindeck:
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Dark Confidant
2 Trinket Mage
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
2 Daze
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
2 Jace, the Mind Sculpter
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
3 Island

Sideboard:
3 Peacekeeper
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
3 Spell Pierce
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Plains

Matches:
Zoo
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+2 Perish
+1 Pithing Needle (Pridemage)
-3 Dark Confidant
-1 Daze
-1 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-1 Trickbind

Merfolk/Goblins
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+3 Peacekeeper
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Plains
-3 Standstill
-2 Daze
-1 Counterbalance
-1 Stifle/Spell Snare (take out Stifle vs Merfolk, Snare vs Goblins)
-1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

CounterTop
+3 Spell Pierce
+0-1 Pithing Needle (Thopter Foundry, Elspeth)
-1-2 Daze
-1 Trickbind
-1 Phyrexian Dreadnought

New Horizons
+2 Perish
+2 Swords to Plowshares
-3 Spell Snare
-1 Engineered Explosives

Dragon Stompy/Stax
+3 Spell Pierce
-3 Counterbalance

Show & Tell/Sneak Attack Emrakul
+3 Spell Pierce
+3 Peacekeeper
-3 Spell Snare
-2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Trickbind

Reanimator
+2 Peacekeeper
+2 Swords to Plowshares (for Iona on blue)
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Relic of Progenitus
-3 Dark Confidant
-2 Engineered Explosives
-2 Trinket Mage
-1 Stifle
-1 Standstill

TES
+3 Spell Pierce
-2 Standstill
-1 Trickbind

Belcher
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-2 Dark Confidant

UW/UBG Landstill
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle (Deed, Wasteland, Mishra's, Elspeth, Jace)
-3 Standstill
-1 Daze

Dredge
+3 Peacekeeper
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Tormod's Crypt
-3 Spell Snare
-3 Counterbalance
-1 Sensei's Divining Top
-1 Trickbind
-1 Standstill

Lands
+3 Spell Pierce
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Relic of Progenitus
+1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Plains
-3 Standstill
-3 Spell Snare
-1 Counterbalance

The Rock/Dark Horizons
+3 Spell Pierce
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+2 Perish
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Plains
-3 Force of Will
-3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-1 Trinket Mage
-1 Trickbind
-1 Engineered Explosives
-1 Underground Sea

Eva Green/Suicide Black
+3 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Pithing Needle
+1 Plains
-2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
-1 Trickbind
-1 Engineered Explosives
-1 Underground Sea

Burn/Sligh
+3 Spell Pierce
+3 Swords to Plowshares (on your own Noughts)
-3 Dark Confidant
-2 Engineered Explosives
-1 Trickbind

@ Keys: Trickbind seems useful against Countertop because of it's ability to shut down Top for the turn. This can help you push a Dreadnaught through Counterbalance (granted that makes it a 3-4 card combo + more mana).

So I recently got some Dreadnaughts, but lacked the Bobs, Seas, Jaces, and Counterbalance that make up a typical Dreadstill deck. I said "screw it," and put together a deck anyways. I have had some success with it, but it is probably inconsistant at best. I figured I'd go ahead and post the list since I was browsing the forum.

4 Brainstorm
4 Fow
4 Spellsnare
4 Stifle
4 Swords
4 Standstill
3 Dreadnaught
3 Mother of Runes
2 V-Clique
2 Trinket Mage
2 Top
1 EE
1 Trickbind
4 Factory
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Plains
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas

SB:
3 Krosan Grip
2 Firespout
2 Llwan
2 Blue Blast
1 Hydro Blast
1 EE
1 Pithing Needle
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Crypt
1 Relic

So most of you probably see Mom and are like, "huh?" She has actually been pretty good though. That card gives people fits like no other. It usually draws a Swords or FoW right away (I guess Bob does too). I don't mind that trade. If she sticks, she obv protects the Naught, and is pretty good under Standstill too (blocking Goyf etc). V-Clique has been steller too. I often use it to set up a Dreadnaught, taking Counters/Removal or whatever. Plus I win many games with the Factory/Clique beatdown plan. Finally, Spellsnare is the nut. Everybody should be playing the hell out of that card right now.

I know the 4 colors is gready but I like the SB options it creates. Grips are way too valuable if your meta is infested with Counterbalance. Firespout is pretty sweet too. I really like that I can EE for 4 as well. Taking out Jace, Moat, Humility, and Elspeth (all at once!) is pretty sweet.

Anyways, my deck would probably be better with Bobs, Counterbalances, and of course Jace, but this is what I have to work with. Plus I love not having to play Daze (I am guessing it's so you have another 2 cmc for Counterbalance?). That card is aweful, even if you are blowing up their lands. Let me know what you think of the list, and what (affordable) changes I could make.

P.S. here is my quick attempt at some match up analysis:
Merfolk: Terrifying
Goblins: Okay, not great.
Counterbalance: Good
Zoo: Even/Good
Burn: Even
Belcher: Hilarious
AnT: Pretty Good
Landstill: Even
Tempo Thresh: Even/Good
New Horizons: ??? Probalby bad, since my manabase is so greedy...

Okay, that's not very helpful I know. Hopefully Merfolk will be better now that I have Llwan + Firespout. I haven't had a chance to try it yet.

@keys:

I have a few thoughts.

You lump the Merfolk and Goblin match together, despite what I feel is a very large difference between the two decks. My approach against Goblins is vastly different than my approach against Merfolk.

For starters, I would not even want to board in Peacekeeper against Goblins. If the opponent doesn't answer a Dark Confidant or Dreadnought quickly, there are consequences. If the opponent doesn't answer Peacekeeper quickly, who cares? The card has no offensive potential whatsoever, and as such it is a huge liability against any deck with a fair number of answers for it. Because even if you play it and sit on it for a while, it's still not advancing your position and you could just be running a different card that would do more for you. Peacekeeper is at its best when the opponent is unlikely to ever answer it, which is just not the case with Goblins.

Secondly, I would not want to board out any copies of Dreadnought or Stifles in any of the tribal matches. Those matches are the single biggest reasons to play Stifle/Nought in the first place. Lessening your combo potential in those matches is like boarding Force of Will out against combo.

Third, don't board out Force of Will. Seriously.

Fourth, Trinket Mage is a trickier card that it would appear at first. Boarding it out against TES is probably wrong, because it can find EE and cut off their Empty the Warrens play as well as remove Swarm or assist in mana denial. Boarding out all your Dreadnoughts is also probably wrong, because you get a lot out of keeping 1 Dreadnought in the deck if only because you can T.Mage for it. Boarding out Trinket Mage against Reanimator is silly too, considering it is a direct tutor for Tormod's Crypt (the reason we can get away with such little gravehate is because Mage lets us act like we're running more than we really are [also, if you're running Relic you really need to bring it in against Reanimator]).

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

@keys:

I have a few thoughts.

You lump the Merfolk and Goblin match together, despite what I feel is a very large difference between the two decks. My approach against Goblins is vastly different than my approach against Merfolk.

For starters, I would not even want to board in Peacekeeper against Goblins. If the opponent doesn't answer a Dark Confidant or Dreadnought quickly, there are consequences. If the opponent doesn't answer Peacekeeper quickly, who cares? The card has no offensive potential whatsoever, and as such it is a huge liability against any deck with a fair number of answers for it. Because even if you play it and sit on it for a while, it's still not advancing your position and you could just be running a different card that would do more for you. Peacekeeper is at its best when the opponent is unlikely to ever answer it, which is just not the case with Goblins.

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Peacekeeper still shuts down their deck, giving them about 6 outs between Gempalm and Weirding (using the SJ 1st place list as the model). Stifle/Trickbind can counter their Gempalms. In the time it takes your opponent to answer her, you might be able to stick Jace and win or at least build up a respectable board position. I'm also assuming my opponent is likely to sideboard out his Gempalms for game 2 and bring in artifact removal, but if it's obvious this isn't the case, I would probably reconsider. You're right, Peacekeeper is better against Merfolk, but that doesn't mean it's bad against Goblins. I didn't mean to imply the strategies you should use for both matchups are identical, I was just trying to save space :)

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Secondly, I would not want to board out any copies of Dreadnought or Stifles in any of the tribal matches. Those matches are the single biggest reasons to play Stifle/Nought in the first place. Lessening your combo potential in those matches is like boarding Force of Will out against combo.

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This is true game 1, but I think you need to diversify your threats post-sideboard.

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Third, don't board out Force of Will. Seriously.

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I don't consider this is a hard and fast rule. Against The Rock, where the card disadvantage will wreck you, I think you're better off with more removal and Spell Pierces. FOW is at its worst against Hymn and Thoughtseize.

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Fourth, Trinket Mage is a trickier card that it would appear at first. Boarding it out against TES is probably wrong, because it can find EE and cut off their Empty the Warrens play as well as remove Swarm or assist in mana denial. Boarding out all your Dreadnoughts is also probably wrong, because you get a lot out of keeping 1 Dreadnought in the deck if only because you can T.Mage for it. Boarding out Trinket Mage against Reanimator is silly too, considering it is a direct tutor for Tormod's Crypt (the reason we can get away with such little gravehate is because Mage lets us act like we're running more than we really are [also, if you're running Relic you really need to bring it in against Reanimator]).

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I understand what you're saying, and I realize the difference between boarding out Trinket Mage and boarding out Noughts/EEs. I've considered most of these points, and here is my reasoning:

Against TES, yes Mage can get EE, but you won't be able to blow it until turn 4, which is too slow against the turn 1 make 12 goblins play. I'd prefer to leave things like Daze in even though they aren't the best, just so I can still interact in the first few turns. Perhaps another Standstill, Confidant, or Jace would be better to board out, though. I'll revisit.

Against Rock and sometimes Eva Green, I've realized that the 2 card combo of Nought/Stifle is too greedy. Even if I successfully dodge discard and manage to resolve a Nought, my opponent has (at a minimum) 9 maindeck ways to remove it. Leaving open the possibility of fetching out that singleton Nought with Mage can be useful sometimes, but most likely I'll get EE or Needle. The best path to victory here is Jace and 2/2s supported by CounterTop. It's nice if your opponent boards in artifact hate and the only target is Top or EE.

Against Reanimator, leaving in Trinket Mages for Crypt seems like a good play, but turn 3 could be too late in the game to matter, at which point I'd rather have Swords or Peacekeeper. I'm also hesitant to go full on grave-hate mode because they can transition to Show and Tell so easily. That said, it probably is best to bring in Relic for something like a Standstill. Good call.

Thanks for the input !

Goblins has more than 6 outs to Peacekeeper. I count at least twice that many. The problem with Peacekeeper against Goblins isn't that Peacekeeper is bad, the problem is you have to cut something important to fit it in. And then you end up with an average card where you could otherwise have an awesome card.

Ultimately, the Stifle/Nought plan is still the best way to defeat Goblins or Merfolk, even in a post-SB game. I do not understand your reasoning for cutting Dreadnought in either of those matches.

As for Force, seriously, don't board it out. Please. This is for your own good. You seem like you've gone into panic mode for how to board against Rock style decks, so let me highlight something you can try.

Out:
1-2 Phyrexian Dreadnought
0-2 Daze
1 Trickbind
0-1 Engineered Explosives

In:
0-3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Perish
0-1 Pithing Needle
0-1 Relic of Progenitus
0-1 Plains

StP just seems better than a 2nd EE here, though 1 is still important.

A lot of it depends on their build and what cards you see during the match. In general I'd stick to 2 Dreadnoughts post-board, though 1 is fine if they are heavy on keeping Nought hate around. Trickbind naturally leaves once the Dreadnought count decreases. And Daze is really mediocre in this match since our main goal is to immediately ramp to Standstill and/or CB and/or Jace ASAP.

So you have a relatively easy set-up to bring in 2 Perish and 2-3 StP, along with a floater like Needle if you expect Elspeth or Relic if you want to cut down their Goyf/KotR or a Plains if you see them using cards like Vindicate aggressively as LD.

It's important to use Force to set up Standstill, or to protect your CB/Jace. Don't cut it.