He can also be reseted with karakas.
He's probably too slow
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He can also be reseted with karakas.
He's probably too slow
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/24/agasu2er.jpg
Thoughts on this card? I see this as a 1-2 off in our decks
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Well I saw people wanting to play immortal servitude somewhere, so that card is much better than that one for sure. I guess it can be tested, recycling lost thalias and moms seems pretty nice on paper.Quote:
Originally Posted by IL_casual
After that, I don't think I like yisan. Seem too slow, and seems like a card I can't see myself casting a zenith for ever. But then again, fetching a sylvan safekeeper on his first activation in response to a removal spell can be pretty funny I guess.
Fauna Shaman seems better than Yisan, faster and with no search restrictions (other than sorcery - instant speed, which is significant I suppose). Jamming some Shamans and a singleton Squee seems pretty spicy actually. Gas for days. If you really want to be able to cast Squee you can even move over to a Punishing Maverick build.
Squee seems way too clunky; if you want to canel out Fauna Shaman's activation cost, just use Sword of Light and Shadow. Yisan seems strong since he doesn't cost a card to activate and puts the creature onto the battlefield, but I agree that he might be a bit on the slow side. I'd consider him in a vial build, since vial frees up mana to activate him, and once vial hits 3 we can dodge sorcery-speed removal and protect/reset him with Karakas.
Yisan really seems too slow in any build, and it actually stops tutoring after the third time (do people still run 4cc targets?). I'd just play Garruk Relentless if I wanted a reusable creature tutor. It still takes a turn to start tutoring, and it can actually do more things.
Anyone still testing out there? I've got a few questions, especially now that I've got the goods for Dark Maverick sleeved up.
The mana. Is eight fetch, 2 Sav, 1 Bayou, 1 Scrub better or wise than 7 fetch, 3 sav, 2 bayou? Is a 4/1 or a 3/2 split between DRS/Hierarch preferable?
The sideboard. Is the fourth Thoughtseize a meta call? If Elves is such a problematic match, why not run 3-4 Zealous Persecutions? It also deals with death and taxes and TNN.
Is the fourth Mother warranted in the 75 right now?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
It'll depend on how much black you're running really. It sounds like you're doing 3 Thoughtseize, but the next question would be how many Abrupt Decays between the main and side. Dark Confidants? etc
I've been partial to 2 Savannah, 2 Bayou, 1 Scrubland, +7 Fetches in lists that want access to that third black land.
Additionally, the black count in your deck will feed (at least a bit) into your split of nobles and deathrites. 4 Deathrite is probably the more powerful thing right now, but it'll depend on what you have to play against.
The fourth mother again comes down to what you have to play against. I like it for the Delver matchups, but it might not be quite as fantastic if you're playing Sneak and Show and such all day.
Eh, you could run a 1 of Thrun and Sigarda to get value out of him past 3, or stuff like Restoration Angel/Flickerwisp to reset counters.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
Sure, but it still seems too slow and vulnerable. Go ahead and experiment with Yisan if you want to. I'd love to be proven wrong about that card in Maverick, but I'm not holding my breath.
Jeff Hoogland 4-0 a daily event with the following list.
It's a bit of a different take with the additional NO route, but it's still clearly a Maverick deck. Pretty interesting, I must say.
Intereseting list indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
Deck looks awesome, but I think it goes too heavy on the NO plan. What about tuning the deck to look something like a Dark Maverick build, with 3 NO, 1 Progenitus, and 1 Craeterhoof Behemoth? Similar to what Eli Kassis did in his NO BUG list.Quote:
Originally Posted by litenkatt
My initial take on a decklist:
4x KoTR
3x DRS
4x Birds of Paradise
1x Noble Heirarch
3x Qasali Pridemage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Progenitus
1x Craeterhoof Behemoth
1x Terastodon
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x GSZ
3x NO
3x Thoughtseize
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Sylvan Library
7x Fetches
3x Wasteland
1x Dark Depths
1x Thepian's Stage
1x Horizon Canopy
1x Karakas
3x Forest
1x Plains
1x Savannah
2x Scrubland
2x Bayou
Thoughts?
Playing 3-4 NOs in addition to crop rotation might also allow us to play boseiju. Then zenith and NO are safe. Crop rotating boseiju EOT and playing NO into peogenitus = win!:)
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It looks interesting, to say the least. I like Elderscale Wurm. I don't know how to feel about Proggy. Maybe run Dryad Militant in Teegs spot, to reduce the clash between Teeg and NO?
You need a way to not lose against fast combo, especially game 1, and I believe teeg is a very good (and probably only) way to do that. Also, I like to see NO as another (slow, but possible) way to tutor Teeg against these decks, in the eventuality that you can't kill them fast enough. from that angle, running a militant instead sure looks like a mistake IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
And I will pile on, this deck seems SWEET. Jeff delivers again!
I threw Hoogland's list together and played a few games.
What I immediately noticed is that the deck needs a Scavening Ooze as GSZ target. Question is what to cut, especially since it's a 61-card list.
Edit:
@bryanzoll: Aren't 8 mana dorks a bit much? That aside, with so many weenie creatures, I miss Cradle in that list.
Should Ruric Thar go into the sideboard?
Edit #2: The NO list was fun, but I wanted to go further. So I came up with this greedy monstrosity:
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Wasteland
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Progenitus
1 Terastodon
2 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Council's Judgment
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
That's just a very rough list. Certain slots like Sigarda or Safekeeper weren't that hot in playtesting so far, so they're potential candidates to be cut. Adding at least another Wasteland and probably a third KotR are on the to-do list. What suprised me during playtesting is how well-rounded the angles of attack are - DD combo, SFM package and NO package gives you a high bomb density. Plan A doesn't work? Go for Plan B or C.
Not too sure about the sideboard yet, except 3 Zealous Persecution is a must. Discard is probably good as well.
I think Sigarda, Safekeeper, Council's Judgment and a Savannah can be cut, and I agree you want a third (or fourth) knight and more wastelands.
I cut the Safekeeper for another Knight and replaced Sigarda with a Primeval Titan (just experimental).
I fail to see why I should cut a Savannah or Council's Judgement, though. The manabase needs some fine tuning. Replacing Savannahs with colorless Wastelands certainly isn't what I want to do.
Id say the bog should be cut for the second wasteland before the savannah And the council's judgement could go to the board as well but I dont know for what either another land or sylvan library. I really like the list and may take some variation to scg baltimore next month.
If you cut the Judgments, your manabase will have less of a strain. With NO, DD, and Stoneforge, you should be able to go straight over the top of decks that Judgment is good against.
Putting Bog in the board and and adding another Wasteland sounds reasonable. There's already MD DRS and Ooze, so Bog might be a bit of overkill.Quote:
Originally Posted by uncletiggy
If the manabase isn't able to support :w::w: in the MD, I don't think it would be able to do so in the SB. If Judgement is cut, Scrubland becomes a lot more questionable with all the double green around. Whether it should be another Bayou, fetchland or Wasteland is up to debate. We could still run AD or Maelstrom Pulse in the board.
The free slots could be a third Hierarch (additional mana fixing and the deck is very mana-hungry), Sylvan Library or maybe an Eternal Witness like Hooglands list. The Primeval Titan is debateable - maybe it's good enough, maybe not. Only playtesting can show that.
What to put into the sideboard? 3 Persecutions are already set in stone since it's really good against various things. I'm currently testing Ruric Thar in board (tech shamelessly stolen from Julian Knab's Elves deck) and the results were good enough that I might keep it. Pithing Needles against stuff like Painter, Miracles, etc. is another strong consideration since we don't run Revokers like D&T. Maybe discard, maybe some more GY-hate, maybe some more removal (AD, Pulse), maybe even a Life from the Loam in the 75. Sword of Light and Shadow/Feast of Famien could be board considerations as well, but they're probably bringing in artifact hate already.
Shit,I didn't see you had no Sylvan Libraries. I think that should be a two of here at minimum. Keeps those NO targets out of your hand.
I think Elderscale Wurm is a great idea. BUG and RUG can't deal with it, and it'll give a headache to any TNN deck. With him and Ruric Thar, you have combo and aggro covered. What about control? Terastodon? Hoof?
I would never run more than 1-2 Libraries since every copy after the first one sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by bakofried
BUG has Liliana to deal with it if they can clear the board. I don't think Hoof is good here since you rarely have enough creatures in play for an alpha strike.
2 Libraries is a must here. Fixes all the dead draws you will have.
And Yeah, if BUG Delver can clear the board with a Lili in play, they have an out, but that's a pretty dominating position.
So, we go away from playing 4 Mother of Runes? Is she somehow outdated in the current meta?
I see that mana accelleration is more important here and Mother is of course a white creature, too. I'm just curious because MoR is somehow one of the most important parts of the traditional Maverick shell. "The best one-drop of all times" as she is called often. I see that with TNN, combo, miracles, BUG mechanics and all the other stuff MoR maybe is just not really doing something in a lot of times/match-ups.
I really like this new stuff and I'm excited about more reports/testing as I am not yet convinced. Is the DD combo still worth it in such a shell? I think playing less KotR would at least afford 1-3 Crop Rotations here for also getting other utility lands (as Jeff Hoogland's list does). I also like the idea of Seijiri Steppe which acts as an unexpected, single MoR activation to protect something. Againt S&T, dredge you have good access to Bog and Karakas. Overall I love Crop Rotation in such a deck.
Personally I still prefer Abrupt Decay over Council's Judgement which seems clunky in a deck which also has access to green and black mana.
What about the SFM package? I see that it adds a lot of versatility to the deck. But I'm not sure about the right number of SFMs. Also playing SoFaI now seems a bit "useless" as there is more access to some really big threats.
Drawing Progenitus of course will suck as you'll never be able to cast him whereas Terastodon (and more green creatues) can be cast via Cradle and dorks in some cases.
Just my thoughts=) I'm curious to see some reports!
I would run Mom if I could afford the space. But even without her, I've still killed plently of people with the DD combo so far. Just go for it when you're sure they don't have ways to deal with the token. I like being almost immune to -1/-1 effects.
I'll try out the 2x Sylvan Library in the spot of CJ. Maybe I'm just paranoid about TNN, but with the DD combo, Progenitus and SoFaI, it might be less of an issue.
I've never understood why people ran less than 4x Stoneforge in their Maverick decks. It's one of the most powerful cards in the format. Cutting down on the numbers just because doesn't do it to me. You want to go balls-deep in on the equipment route with all those mana accelerators.
That's also one of the aspects I like about this build. The threat trinity - SFM, NO and DD, is alot to deal with and makes pretty hard for your opponent to adapt. It's fun to have various ways that means lights-out for your opponent.
I'll probably tune the list in the upcoming weeks (I don't have that much time to play currently due to work) and play some daily events on MODO with it.
I just see that Thalias are also not in the list. That's of course another (if not the best) MD card against storm (and manaless dredge xD). I see she doesn't fit anymore due to own spells but atm I think storm would be a very bad MU as Teeg is the only MD hate.
Thalia massively classes with the MD strategy, that's why I left her out. You can still put her in the sideboard.
I'll try it out this Thalia-less version and see how it goes. Corners need to be cut if you want to try out something new.
Barook:
I'll be testing this deck as well. How often do you go for the NO? What do you do if Prog is in hand?
I really want space for 4 Thoughtseize in the main because my meta is usually heavy on combo and Teeg can be too slow when tutored, but it might mess up the mana base.
Stuhl:
Mother of Runes has just been decent for me recently, so I've been slowly shaving them from the deck. It's completely useless against combo game 1, and there are lots of artifact decks and jitte+evasion around me.
If I can go for NO, I'll do it at some point of the game - the sooner, the better. If Prog lands in my hand, it sucks, but I would probably go for something else. The deck has so much going on that being required to NO while Progenitus was in hand was never necessary. I would probably go for Terastodon and shit out tokens. I put back in Elderscale Wurm after that little analysis of bakofried. I never really wanted to fetch Primetime with NO. Maybe the slot could be something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by .Ix
I really like Ruric Thar in the sideboard. He makes Burn your bitch as long as you aren't basically dead on board. I'm not sure if he's MD material, though.
But I'm more interested what sideboard you guys would put together the current, rough list.
@Barook: I really would play more Wastelands. I think there won't be any mana issues with playing 6 dorks. I played GWb Maverick once with 4 Wastes, 5 dorks and DD combo and never really had greater mana issues.
Also I would try to play 3 KotR at least. She is a threat, too. And you can play down to curve. In a lot of cases KotR will catch your opponents counterspell as they won't expect something like NO next turn.
Terastodon is great! Progenitus, too. But I would not play too much fatties MD. If they stuck in your hand it's not good... Elderscale Worm seems actually like a SB card for me. Against RUG, BUG and things like that.
Terastodon seems more versatile in MD, especially if you think about some combo strategies like Painter or also S&T. Elderscale won't do much here against Emrakul, milling.
I think 2 fatties are enough MD.
Concerning the SB:
Well, I would play
4 Thoughtseize in any case.
2-3 Zealous Persecutions.
1 additional Teeg.
1 Bojuka Bog.
1 Ruric Thar seems pretty nice, too!
Not sure about Engineered Plague/Canonist/Tutor package. But if there is space, why not!
Also Surgical Extractions/additional Oozes are imo not necessary, as Crop Rotations in Bojuka Bog/one MD Ooze seems enough for me.
Maybe 1 Elderscale.
I really like that version! Will do some test runs, too. It's time that Maverick does some "unfair" things, too!:P
It would be nice to run more Wastelands, but I'm making baby steps to ensure that everything still works out fine. If you find a configuration with more Wastelands that's still consistent, awesome, but I already find myself mulling to due lack of right color way too often for my taste to add further Wastelands at the current point. I don't know about cutting down the NO targets. 3 sounds like a decent number since Terastodon seems more like a utility card with added beats. Worldspine Wurm seems expensive and unimpressive for what it does since it's another StP target, but could act as another Progenitus replacement.
And I'm already running 3 KotRs.
Edit: Current list:
1 Gaea's Cradle
4 Savannah
2 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Elderscale Wurm
1 Progenitus
1 Terastodon
2 Crop Rotation
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Sylvan Library
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
Bahra has been doing well with Maverick on MTGO with something of a throwback list.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/11604
Interesting choices: no Libraries, 2 Scrybs, Sylvan Safekeeper. Thoughts?
The SFM package is definitely strong (I still have no idea how people can advocate running less than 4) and so is the DD combo for random wins. It certainly a decent list.
But it worth mentioning that Bahra is a good player and he mainly played scrubs in said daily events if you watched his stream.
Personally, I'm not a fan of Safekeeper, but I've added back a copy to the SB of my list and see how it goes. My current board looks like this:
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Plague
4 Thoughtseize
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
I'd definitely like to run more Needles for stuff like Miracles, though. Hard to say what I should cut. Ruric Thar has been pretty good so far in testing. He's a keeper.
Yeah, the SFM package is really strong, but imo 2 Pridemages are also very strong for example. I think running 3 SFM's in spite of one more Pridemage is also reasonable. And there is more access via Zenith. Also playing 2 Libraries gives you more flexibility.
I recently try a list without SoFaI as I think by using the NO package you don't need it necessarily as it is mainly there to "race" against TNN. Playing 2 equips intuitively makes me play only 3 SFM's. I like a playset of KotR, as they are more flexible and (!) green. You can do so much things with an active KotR.
I also play 1 Divining Top these days. Imo 3 Libraries are not good as you may have multiple copies but 2 Libraries + 1 Top gives you some variance. You can just shuffle the Top away in case you draw a Library, etc.
I always feel that I for sure win each game I get a Library in game. There is twice as much versatility in a Maverick deck when you can manipulate your draws.
I'm still testing and will let you guys know as soon as I got some results!
I can see a 3/2 split of SFM/Pridemage working, but SFM is so strong that cutting copies somehow doesn't feel right. Report back how it works.
I wonder how good Courser of Kruphix with Library/SDT/shuffle effects would be.
I will note that I can't see why a third Library would be worse than a single top. In what situation would you realistically want both in play? Just play a redundant Library for better game against Miracles and BGx decks.
Top is more flexible as you can search more effective for an answer and you can do it more often a turn and also in your opponents turn. Having a KotR out means you can have a lot of fresh cards -> search fetchland -> look -> fetch -> look -> eventually draw the answer for something.Quote:
In what situation would you realistically want both in play?
I don't know, I think the 1 mana for the activation isn't really a thing. The first activation is for free if you compare it with the 2 cmc cost of library.
Library just means one top activation (with eventually additional draw) at the beginning of your turn. Having both in play is at least more effective than having 2 libraries in play!
Well it's just my feeling :P
In general the first library gets countered/decayed anyway, so playing 3 libraries is justified, too. Actually they won't counter/blow your top=) (at least most).
Has anyone tested playing with Council's Judgement yet?