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practical joke, do you ever find yourself lacking in action?
I find myself lacking in action more times than I would like. I'm officially going to give Grim Tutor a shot. If it turns out to be as bad as I think it will be, I will be sticking with TES until a better tutor is printed (never going to happen).
you are right on the fetch lands, hadn't changed it yet to reflect my adding green to the list. (Brain Fart) Nice catch.Quote:
Originally Posted by NesretepNoj
It's fair that you become a bit weaker to teeg/canonist/pillar/whatever somebody decided to run to hate you out, especially considering you don't have the extra thoughtseizes. It's a valid concern for sure. However, The DD package VASTLY helps your Counterbalance match, and Swarm is quite a boost against Team America... whereas multiple CoV's are generally only good in matchups that are already favorable. Also, at least from what I've seen, most people have moved to running Mindbreak trap as their hate. Still, I could see cutting the Hurkyl's for another CoV (actually, an echoing truth would probably be better in that scenario)
you may be surprised. Although Grim does look fairly bad on paper (and, also has it's moments of being terrible off an Ad Nauseam) many times not being forced to have hellbent is fairly relevant. Especially post board when you need to search up something (it happens... though rarely)Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
It does happen, but very rarely, but that's the risk when playing the list. I however cantrip aggressively to that single card I really need, the rest I pick on the way, or isn't that necessary as it might seem. (you find tons of mana, don't ever worry about that)Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
I do prefer to add one tutor in the list, but I'm not a real fan of Grim tutor, but that doesn't say it's not a decent card.
If you could, you should really test the grim tutor list as well. Because you should try to find the deck that suits you best, even though the ammount of cards my list and Ari's differ is small, it does play slightly different at times.
This is very accurate. Cantripping aggressively is very important for this deck. When you need the tutor you usually don't want to just randomly leave another card on top unless you also are going to need that one to go off for sure (ie. an LED).Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
I definitely do not cantrip passively with this deck, if I need business spells, I will not be keeping anything that isn't that, but sometimes that just isn't enough.
I am trying the Grim Tutors, and Ad Nauseam is even weaker in that build. Going off with no mana floating is pretty much impossible, which makes playing against taxing counters kind of hard (not that it is hard to pay for the counters but it is hard to pay for the counters and have mana floating after AdN). I've noticed that anything less than 2 mana floating is dangerous, and I would never go for it without mana floating (baring it being my only option of course).
The one good thing is that Tutor chains become the main way to kill, which is not a terrible thing.
it's also important (and moreso if you aren't running the grims) to take a second look at hands that have "business" (Infernals, Ad Nauseams) in them. There are a LOT of mana producers in the deck, but not a lot of business spells. It's considerably easier to cantrip/raw draw into some acceleration than into a tutor.
Of course that's just stating the obvious I suppose.
How does everyone beat the Team America deck?
Since Counterbalance is losing popularity among the SCG Opens, I have been considering going back to playing Dark Confidant and an extra Tendrils in the board over Doomsday.
Thoughts?
I've been playing DDFT with a Painter sideboard.
certainly sounds interesting. What does the Painter board net you matchup wise?Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
@John - it's Legacy, it's just a crap shoot in a way. One weekend you can sit down from pet decks all day long, the next week you can play nothing but "established" decks... If you don't end up sitting down from Countertop, having those 6 slots as something else is definitely enticing.
List please?Quote:
Originally Posted by emidln
The list is for a different thread, but the main idea of storm being much harder to assemble than a 2 card combo against Team America remains. I'd argue that I have more tutors (2 extra with 4 DD vs 2 Grim Tutor) and SDT over Preordain is a huge benefit in the matchup with regards to assembling painter/grindstone, but I'd imagine you could apply it successfully anyway in UB ANT.
it's most certainly neat that the combo assembles for a single dark ritual. I may try to throw something in and see how it works. From looks (in the normal'ish UB ANT wish anyways) it seems that it's probably quite a bit weaker in the CB matchup. However, if it can come in in some other matchups as well and improve them... it may still be worth it.
On an aside, I'm liking running Doomsday and Xantid Swarm in the board. It doesn't leave room for much of anything else, but both are very helpful in your two worst matchups (CB and Team America respectively) I think the maindeck will have to change to a 3/3 split of duress / thoughtsieze though (as opposed to 4/2)
Have you guys considered the Vintage 4xAd Nauseam, 3xTendrils of Agony configurations? Your ability to mulligan or draw into a threat and your ability to storm by hand increases dramatically. I think you guys can safely SB Ill Gotten Gains, trim Pre Ordain, Thought Seize and Cabal Ritual and find the space you need to increase your business.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
The issue with this configuration is that you're dying off Ad Nauseam way too often. I tried a list with four Ad Nauseam and a single Tendrils without cantrips and Duress / Pact Of Negation before, but flipping Ad Nauseam really hurts. Especially when you flip multiples.
I think I was also playing Culling The Weak and Dryad Arbor to power out Ad Nauseam as early as possible, but the damage was just too high all the time.
That's the reasoning for playing 3xTendrils instead of 1, if they get away with it in Vintage I don't see why we can't get away with it here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona
They have more and better fast mana, that's the reason.
Ad Nauseam is a poor replacement for the interaction you lose by removing TS and PO; in addition you are cutting some of the best fast Mana the deck has to offer as well as gutting the most efficient and safe Storm engine the deck runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Final Fortune
Additional ToA only serve to clog your hand.
Not to be a fan boy but, it took people months to catch on to Ari Lax and his constant harping regarding AnT. Yet people still have a hard on for the AnT kill - if I only had a dollar for every time I watched someone fizzle with Ad Nauseam. I strongly suggest you try running through some IGG kills and learn the pros and cons of an AdN kill vs IGG.
Vintage AnT as stated (to a limited extent) is a much a different beast from Legacy AnT, the similarities you try to draw between the two with your suggestion make me wonder how well of an understanding you have of either.
Yeah Vintage ANT is different. They just need to hit one tutor off it, which finds Yawg Will and they win. They're also going to Ad Nauseam from higher life totals, no one's swinging at them with Nacatls, Goblin Guides, Steppe Lynx, hasty Piledrivers, etc
Not to harp on it, but agreed. The lack of Power makes running more than 2-3 spells that cast over 2 mana a liability. As we've discussed before on this thread, even flipping a Grim Tutor can be quite painful. Flipping an Ad Nauseam off of an Ad Nauseam (in the version that runs 2 and no grims) is just about the biggest sigh you can get in the deck.
Sometimes even in the "grim" list, you just cast AdN, flip IGG, Flip Grim, Flip Grim, Flip Tendrils, lose.
That said, I say we bring back IGGy Pop...