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I'm not happy with my german report. I wrote it and posted it mainly because I already spent so much time writing all this stuff down. Therefor, I'm afraid I have to tell you, that I won't post an english report, when I'm not even happy with the one written in my native language.Quote:
Originally Posted by andrebonotto
Well, I finally found a good matchup for burn, because they can burn down all your keycards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godmode
If they are stifling your fetch, they may be missing out to stifle a Regal Force, Symbiot, quirion ranger etc, which imo can hurt you more then loosing one land. Also keep in mi.d a lot of RUG decks don't even run stifle anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexeezay
Something that has been bothering me and never felt like ask it: When Glimpsing, do we get a draw out of Dryad Arbor?
It's not a spell, therefore you don't cast it, therefore you don't draw cards off Glimps.
In a deck running 14 or less real lands ?Quote:
Originally Posted by TraxDaMax
I know well a player in Paris who only plays only elves. The only times he did well was during the period where he metagamed against tempo including playing only forests as turn 1 lands.
He won 2 or 3 tournaments in a row whereas he doesn't do anything usually.
Sure,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
I think it all depends on both players draw really. Elves only needs 1 green mana to start off like a train. If the RUG player runs out of disruption Elves can easily work its way out of mana denial.
And usually if they happen to keep mana open for Stifle, they aren't casting Delver. Which just gives you more time to find lands.
I won't disagree you are opening yourself to hate, but I think if you are playing Mirror Entity versions, you really need fetch.
So difference I guess in the 2 versions is the mono green has a more stable manabase, while the Mirror Entity lets you combo and win out of impossible positions.
@ the Stifle argument
I feel like this thread has two kinds of players.
Those running some dream build where they never have to mull a thousand times and can get away with 14 lands...
and the rest of us.
I have jumped pretty hard onto the Caleb Durward/Chris Anderson Mirror Entity bandwagon where 17 lands is standard. These lists are more resilient and actually more mid rangey. The combo there is just gravy. In those builds, a Stifle on one fetchland wont kill your whole game.
If you are still in the camp running 14 lands, Summoner's Pacts, and using Emrakul as your wincon, then yes, a Stifle on a fetchland can really mess you up. But you are also playing a very all-in build, and you have to kind of accept those blowouts when you sit down at the table with a greedy build.
And I've played those greedy builds. I know they can be awesome. But I also remember having to mulligan like a monster with only 14 lands. And I remember almost comboing into 15 mana only to fizzle. And I remember dying to my own Summoner's Pact because the other guy had a forked bolt or something.
So yes, there is a certain glory to slowly building up that mana and slamming down an Emrakul to the delight of everybody around you. But if the cost is eschewing fetchlands out of fear of Stifle, then, well, you gotta do what you gotta do.
Most of the top performing lists I've seen are running 17 lands. They are not afraid of Stifle.
Edit : "In a deck running 14 or less real lands ?"
Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by "real lands" and have just gone off on a tangent here for no reason. I apologize if that's the case. Are you not counting Gaea's Cradle as a real land? Or Dryad Arbor?
Real lands was referring to "turn one mana lands". So no gaea's cradle nor dryad arbor.
I too was talking about Chris Anderson's build. To me it is very good and streamlined to play, and I rarely find any problems with fetchlands. Playing 2 Crop Rotation is also very very good, letting you destroy a Cradle to get the other, or putting the other in play.
Lol okay. I just went off on a ranty tangent. Again, I apologize for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lejay
Although we are talking about the same mana base, I still don't feel that Stifle is a huge concern. It seems like one of those cards that has a greater mental effect than a gamestate effect. By that I mean the fear of being Stifled is often more efficacious than actually being Stifled. If you are altering your, IMHO, perfectly fine and stable mana base to dodge a card that is not often played, then I think that card has beat you before it even hits the table.
That said, if I had been blown out a couple of times by a well-placed Stifle, I might be more afraid of it and might build around it. But I just don't see that card anymore.
Ya I think stifle is meta-dependent.
Another question: board for combo? I know thorn is used here and there, but a turn one answer would be good....what about boarding in root maze for combo? Especially in the builds that don't run fetches, it gives us a huge tempo advantage.
What tempo advantage? You spend a card and a turn durdling around with root maze and in the best case scenario this will postpone the opponents combo turn by one turn. Woo.
They won't have any mana for the first two turns of the game if they fetch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinitium
Edit: Also strange but effective board choice: heartwood storyteller against control has proven to be awesome.
I know the deck is pretty much built against blue decks with counterspells, but I have been durdling with the thought of going - 1 Misty Rainforest, + 1 Cavern of Souls.
With 2 Crop Rotation, it can assure that Mirror Entity hits if you are combo'ing. It might be totally unneeded, but untill now I can't see what it is hurting either other then opening up to wasteland. Though if they are wasting that, they aren't wasting Cradles ;)
For clarity, all the builds have ran between 12-14 lands. Sometimes 12 Forest, other times 7 "Forests" + 7 fetch. Gaea's Cradle and Dryad Arbor are not counted here for precisely the reasons stated above. IMO the Mirror Entity build is weaker to some metagames than Emrakul; but it's all a wash honestly.
What is everyone boarding right now? Here is mine:
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Krosan Grip
3 Meekstone
1 Mortarpod
2 Pithing Needle
2 Summoner's Pact
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Viridian Shaman
Also, perhaps more importantly, what are people taking out when they board?
I have Maverick built, and I just got a great deal on an Elves deck off eBay. I'm trying to make the deck playable with the GW splash, since it's basically turning the deck into a modified Maverick build with more creatures instead of big ones.
I have two thought I haven't seen discussed or addressed:
With many deck already including Crop Rotation, would a single Karakas be worth boarding? It can't produce G, but it would be useful to have another out in the Reanimator/SNT matchups.
For gravehate, I've been using Scavenging Ooze. This deck has no trouble producing loads of green mana, Ooze is a green creature, and graveyard decks can't function while it's in play. I also bring it in vs. Tarmogoyf decks, because it's good at shrinking goyf, and is usually bigger than their creatures.
TL;DR - Why no SB Karakas or Scavenging Ooze?
@ k2thej
I try not to board out more than 4 pieces because it dilutes the combo too much. So most of my board consists of silver bullets that I Glimpse or lucksack into. Why do you run 2 Pacts in the SB? To race combo?
Right now my board is
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Meekstone
2 Humility
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Mortarpod
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Karakas
Fuck combo. I used to run 3 Thorns but they just get countered or discarded. I actually have won more games against combo by just racing them or using my Care Bear Stare on their hand and making them draw poorly than by blowing them out with Thorn.
@ ThePrevailer
I run 2 Crop Rotations with 3 silver bullet lands. I haven't played enough games with that configuration to say whether or not it's super clever tech, but the extra Crop Rotation has definitely been helpful in the maindeck. At the very least, boarding in the silver bullet lands gives you a plan against the relevant decks, so you can feel like you tried, even a little bit, as you get pounded by Gristlebrand.
I also run 1 Scavenging Ooze in the maindeck. It is too good not to and against some decks it just gives you that autowin for game 1. Run it. You might even want an extra one in the SB.
Scavenging Ooze is amazing in elves. He is good against Rug, dredge, Reanimator, decks with engineered plague, decks with snapcaster, burn decks, and random decks that use the graveyard like Lands.