I am planning to run a pretty standard Spy list at my LGS in two weeks (Legacy night doesn't come often where I play). The deck is still around; it just isn't making it to SCG coverage anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daize
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I am planning to run a pretty standard Spy list at my LGS in two weeks (Legacy night doesn't come often where I play). The deck is still around; it just isn't making it to SCG coverage anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daize
Oh, I meant 'finished' as in: there's not a lot we can do to optimize it even more, I feel :-). Otherwise, I don't feel like the graveyard hate has become too much.
About that: is SCG really the only big MTG coverage / website thing left?
SCG is the biggest and best. Chanel fireball does coverage also, as does wizards.
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Ah, I see. My mistake! I am still holding out that someone with more experience and some time to spare will further optimize the deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daize
On another note, WotC hasn't printed anything in Khans that is too detrimental to the Dredge archetype; perhaps in the next block WotC will incidentally print new tech.
So this is a side topic, but I had to ask. With Golgari Grave Troll unbanned in modern, can anyone figure out how to make a modern deck out of manaless dredge? I've seen a few lists but they all seem terrible.
Unfortunately, we're stuck with narrow options when it comes to a mana less deck. I can't get away from any of these cards in my mainQuote:
Originally Posted by easysantiago
16 dredgers
12 free creatures
4 Bridges
4 Therapy
4 DR
4 DR targets
4 Phantasmagorian
8 free cantrips
and that only leaves 4 available spots for flexibility without sacrificing consistency.
A problem that I've encountered one too many times is getting locked out by Thalia, and I'm pretty close to adding a single Dakmor Salvage just to escape that lock. To be honest, there aren't many game one problems that require us to change the deck. But post-board we still have work to do since our wins come by and large because our opponent whiffs on hate either g2 or g3. FoW and Shoal have been the best in my experience, but I'd be happy to find something even better.
Well... I did switch dredger no. 16 for a Progenitus. It helps in long, grindy games where you've already burned through a number of DR's before getting Spy on the battlefield. It allows you to set up a nice Ichorid/token-onslaught by the time your opponent goes topdeck mode.Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
Heck, I've even managed to fend off an Entreat the Angels with that little trick. My opponent couldn't kill me in 1 swing so he had to keep his ponies home to do some blocking until a couple of turns later he succumbed to my ever growing army. Who needs a library anyways?
On the downside - dredging into Progenitus just sucks. And since Progenitus is Progenitus, he likes to show up as often as he can. Three times in a row, if needed *sigh*.
so its been awhile since I've played this deck but I figured it was time to bring manaless back to my local store. I'm playing the normal list with balustrade spy and flayer. Theres alot of bug delver, dnt, some storm and other rwu delver variants. Honestly theres a little of everything at my lgs but mostly tier 1 decks, ive seen very few graveyard strategies hence why I feel it's time to give manaless a go.
Sideboard:
4 Mindbreak trap
3 Contagion
2 Ashen tider
2 Sickening shoal
4 Faerie macabre ( should this be lotv?)
Any advice is totally appreciated and shall be considered. Against something like reanimator its correct to bring in grave-hate plus the shoals, what else are shoals used against? I am a bit concerned with thalia.....is it reasonable to cut a spy for one griselbrand and side a darkmor salvage? Hopefully I can get a mini report up by sunday, thanks!
Don't discount the number of Containment Priest/Grafdigger's Cage/Rest in Peace in the various sideboards. Last tournament I was in had me face that stuff in 3 of my 4 MU's. The 4th MU being vs. ANT, so that wasn't much better.
Admittedly, I was playing Elves! but still... Being on Manaless would have made me an even sadder panda, lol.
Just started to play M. Dreadge and play the nofear version. My sb is mostly against combo and gravyard, my favorit is Unmask. Like the option to target my self and then start to dredge turn 1. When i was looking at the "database" and found the blue chancellor (chancellor of the spires). Isnt this a really good card for at explosiv start? Or am I missing something?
It's indeed the best card you can imagine in the first grip ... of your opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by BJeagle
If you can persuade him/her to play it, you will have really explosive starts.
Each opponent... Ahh, haha. Sorry.
Dakmor Salvage proved to be completely useless. It never worked, even in sb games where DnT had some number of Port/Wastes removed from their deck.
You can play the counterspells main board in your flex spots and by trimming elsewhere. You'll be a little less consistent but you'll have outs to Thalia game one, as well as opposing combo. You also open up 8 sideboard slots, which really makes this idea appealing now that I think about it.
And while I'm on the subject, this deck's sideboard has always been terrible. Has anybody tested any ideas for new sideboard cards or even looked? I know I haven't tried very hard.
The only "odd" thing that I've been running is a Bane of Progress so I don't get locked out of the game when my opponent lands Platinum Angel + Lightning Greaves, but that is so incredibly corner case that it's hardly worth considering.
That's a dream I lived... well... once! After Unmasking a Trinisphere no less, lol.
On another note, what do you people board out to make room for other cards in games 2 and 3? I tend to take our Gitaxian Probes first (since Ichorid can't eat them) and after that the Street Wraiths go. The deck gets a bit slower, but the engine is kept intact. I tend to board in like 8 to 10 cards whenever I'm sideboarding, lol. For cards 9 and 10, it depends on the MU and is often a combination of Progenitus/Dread Return/Balustrade Spy/Chancellor of the Annex, though never more than 1 of each.
If you're playing Unmask, then those were cards #57-60 added to your deck and they're the first to be sided out. Unmask is really good against Stoneforge decks, so that is the only time I'd say to excuse this rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
But you're also running Chancellor which means your deck is configured differently than mine. Regardless, those can also be sided out in high numbers. They are not mandatory at all for the engine, but help every MU just like Unmask. I'd side out those fluff cards before any "core" stuff like dredgers, DR, DR-targets, etc.
I used to run Unmasks in the MB as well. At some point I chose to switch them out for Chancellors as they buy you some time while not requiring another card to do so (where Unmask does). Also, the Chancellor's ability can't be countered where Unmask can. I mean, in that regard we're pretty much powerless vs. FoW/Daze. I like how Chancellor turns into a nice DR target. I prefer having a Chancellor in the graveyard over having an Unmask there.
I agree on the siding out Unmasks, I used to do that too with mine (where I tend to keep the Chancellors in when SB'ing), hence my question. The only real fluff cards that are left when playing Chancellors are Probe & Wraith (or at least in my opinion).
For reference, here is my 60:
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
3 Shambling Shell
4 Nether Shadow
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
4 Bridge from Below
4 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Street Wraith
4 Phantasmagorian
4 Chancellor of the Annex
1 Progenitus
3 Balustrade Spy
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
Nothing special, but what the heck. The sideboard is a mix of Mindbreak Traps, Contagions, Unmasks, Faerie Macabres and the Bane of Progress (I believe 4/4/4/2/1).
Thinking about firing up the Manaless train again.
I purchased this deck on modo so I'm going to have a lot more opportunities to fiddle with it. I did go with Chancellors instead of Unmask mostly because of the price tag. It was something like 0.1 tickets vs. 25 tickets :eyebrow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk
:eyebrow: why would it be so expensive on MTGO? A rise in Vintage popularity online maybe?