[Deck] 12 Post

So the full Commander 2014 lists are out, and here's cards I think we got that we could potentially use:

Song of the Dryads We don't have to splash white for Banishing Light.
Well of Ideas/Loreseeker's Stone We have the mana to play this, and we get an immediate return on it if it resolves. This isn't on the list to play it though. This is on the list to ponder if/when Treasure Cruise leaves the Legacy format... although Dig Through Time will likely have to follow behind it as well because that card's awesome as well.
Unstable Obelisk Mana rock that can come around to murder a threat down the line. While I wouldn't like more than Ulamog, it's colorless destruction and a mana rock. It's improvement over Oblivion Stone is that I don't have to play around the fact I have things (like Candelabra) that I don't want to explode.
Reef Worm It's cute. We can play it, probably shouldn't, but it's something in terms of Mid-Range options.
Masterwork of Ingenuity Eh, everyone gets a sideboard card for Batterskull.

In all seriousness, Song of the Dryads has the most potential I could see out of the set.

Things we have to worry about:
Dualcaster Mage Five words: We play blue delve cards. Beyond that, this also gives them shenanigans with Crop Rotation, our none Hydroblast Counters, and can steal the draw from Repeal (I would totally copy Repeal targeting the same permanent to draw a card then have yours countered without a target... if the copy also copies X... if not, I still have rules things to learn). Upside is three mana (thank goodness Wizards isn't interested in completing the broke 2 mana cycle) means that this guys shenanigans are not for everyone... It'll probably see fringe play at least though because giving instants/Sorceries legs is always an upgrade.

Containment Priest It's not a big deal, but if Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, Reanimator, and/or Dredge kicks up, I could see this card being annoying. It exists, I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up somewhere, sometime, for some reason.

And that's really it as far as I know. Beyond Songs of the Dryads, I see some shake up, but nothing really of too much... you know, unless I'm wrong.

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

So the full Commander 2014 lists are out, and here's cards I think we got that we could potentially use:

Song of the Dryads We don't have to splash white for Banishing Light.
Well of Ideas/Loreseeker's Stone We have the mana to play this, and we get an immediate return on it if it resolves. This isn't on the list to play it though. This is on the list to ponder if/when Treasure Cruise leaves the Legacy format... although Dig Through Time will likely have to follow behind it as well because that card's awesome as well.
Unstable Obelisk Mana rock that can come around to murder a threat down the line. While I wouldn't like more than Ulamog, it's colorless destruction and a mana rock. It's improvement over Oblivion Stone is that I don't have to play around the fact I have things (like Candelabra) that I don't want to explode.
Reef Worm It's cute. We can play it, probably shouldn't, but it's something in terms of Mid-Range options.
Masterwork of Ingenuity Eh, everyone gets a sideboard card for Batterskull.

In all seriousness, Song of the Dryads has the most potential I could see out of the set.

Things we have to worry about:
Dualcaster Mage Five words: We play blue delve cards. Beyond that, this also gives them shenanigans with Crop Rotation, our none Hydroblast Counters, and can steal the draw from Repeal (I would totally copy Repeal targeting the same permanent to draw a card then have yours countered without a target... if the copy also copies X... if not, I still have rules things to learn). Upside is three mana (thank goodness Wizards isn't interested in completing the broke 2 mana cycle) means that this guys shenanigans are not for everyone... It'll probably see fringe play at least though because giving instants/Sorceries legs is always an upgrade.

Containment Priest It's not a big deal, but if Show and Tell, Sneak Attack, Reanimator, and/or Dredge kicks up, I could see this card being annoying. It exists, I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up somewhere, sometime, for some reason.

And that's really it as far as I know. Beyond Songs of the Dryads, I see some shake up, but nothing really of too much... you know, unless I'm wrong.

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I think they already shook up enough with treasure cruise lol. I guess I won't be stockpiling this years decks.

I suspect that Containment Priest will see a home in Death in Taxes SB. That may hamper the show and tell a primeval titan and steamroll them plan.

Containment Priest shouldn't be a problem at all for us. Show and Tell is not the priority wincon for us. Even if it was, they have to put the Priest down in response to the Show for it to do anything, in which case you just elect not to put a creature onto the battlefield, turning the Priest into a hugely situational kinda-counterspell-but-not-really that also would disable Aether Vial in DnT.

As far as Priest is concerned, we should be more worried at the prospect of it making Delver decks stronger (or even more omnipresent than they already are) by virtue of what decks it can (potentially) keep down. Maybe the real home of Priest is in UWR Delver? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

I think they already shook up enough with treasure cruise lol. I guess I won't be stockpiling this years decks.

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I'm expecting things from Song of the Dryads. Green has always been a color that has to splash for opposing answers (most notable is black for Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse), so a flexible green card that neutralizes a threat (even temporary) is something that Legacy players playing non-BG or BGX I believe should give a shot. And we fall right in that caveat. Also, it stops Goblin Piledriver... corner case, but worth mentioning if Goblins pick up.

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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

Containment Priest shouldn't be a problem at all for us. Show and Tell is not the priority wincon for us. Even if it was, they have to put the Priest down in response to the Show for it to do anything, in which case you just elect not to put a creature onto the battlefield, turning the Priest into a hugely situational kinda-counterspell-but-not-really that also would disable Aether Vial in DnT.

As far as Priest is concerned, we should be more worried at the prospect of it making Delver decks stronger (or even more omnipresent than they already are) by virtue of what decks it can (potentially) keep down. Maybe the real home of Priest is in UWR Delver? Just a thought.

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Containment Priest is only a threat in the same way that Chalice of the Void for 1 is a threat to us: it cuts down options. Unlike Chalice though, it only stops 2-4 cards (maybe more if Green Sun picks up again), so it is a corner case. I mentioned it only because interacts with us in a threatening way. Not a MAJOR threatening way, but significant enough to mention. Although as a Preboarding option for American Delve(r), I could see it growing more troublesome.

Titania will completely change ramp strategies forevermore. By far the best legacy ramp focus. Enables crazy strategies like scapeshift, or small advantages such as crop/fetch/chasm tricks.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Titania will completely change ramp strategies forevermore. By far the best legacy ramp focus. Enables crazy strategies like scapeshift, or small advantages such as crop/fetch/chasm tricks.

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She does seem good, but my worry was more that she seems like she's strongest in matches where we're already strong. Then again, the more I think about it, I tend to be very, very defensive with Crop Rotation...knowing I could get a 5/3 dork even if the Crop gets countered doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world. Also, she's like, 2 dollars and I've spent 2 dollars on far worse. No real harm in giving her a whirl.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Titania will completely change ramp strategies forevermore. By far the best legacy ramp focus. Enables crazy strategies like scapeshift, or small advantages such as crop/fetch/chasm tricks.

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I see Titania taking on a life of her own (I knew I forgot a card in my card breakdown). I don't really see her fitting in a 12-post shell or even the Turbo Eldrazi archetype. She seems to me that she would fit stronger in a new archetype free of Cloudpost, a lands/control hybrid (meaning miracles minus miracles + green or just Lands.dec built around her). That's not to say I disagree with the notion she can play in this deck, but she has stiff competition at five mana.

I've been mulling over Songs of the Dryads some more, and I've come to the conclusion I cannot think of any other card I'd rather put in off an opposing Show and Tell in print because of some of the sly rulings cheating auras entails. However, I'm not completely familiar with them, so I have two questions:
First and most important, does cheating auras use the stack to attach to the permanent?
Second, does cheating an aura bypass Emrakul's pro colored spells?

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

I see Titania taking on a life of her own (I knew I forgot a card in my card breakdown). I don't really see her fitting in a 12-post shell or even the Turbo Eldrazi archetype. She seems to me that she would fit stronger in a new archetype free of Cloudpost, a lands/control hybrid (meaning miracles minus miracles + green or just lands built around her). That's not to say I disagree with the notion she can play in this deck, but she has stiff competition at five mana.

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The main issue I see with Titania in our shell is that in spots where I can resolve her, I'd almost always prefer a Titan or an Oracle. I haven't even properly adjusted to the recent drastic changes to our strategy fully, so there's a chance there is a deck that wants both titan and titania, but I'm lukewarm on here in a cloudpost deck. She might be the final excuse I need to put some actual testing into a Veteran Explorer Landstill shell I've been having in mind for a while.

Am uncertain right now if Song of the Dryads actually works against SnT and the timing of how things resolve. Gotta look up those comprehensive rules first to be sure. It might not actually be able to be attached to a permanent that enters the battlefield at the same time.

Edit: 303.4f If an Aura is entering the battlefield under a player’s control by any means other than by resolving as an Aura spell, and the effect putting it onto the battlefield doesn’t specify the object or player the Aura will enchant, that player chooses what it will enchant as the Aura enters the battlefield. The player must choose a legal object or player according to the Aura’s enchant ability and any other applicable effects.

They key part is "as the Aura enters the battlefield", which is before any of the permanents put in by SnT have actually entered the battlefield, so you can't choose whatever your opponent cheats in. This is the same reason Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph didn't work with the old legend rule. Bummer, I liked the idea of having a catch all SnT answer that is playable, but not spectacular on its own.

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Originally Posted by LLCoolDave

They key part is "as the Aura enters the battlefield", which is before any of the permanents put in by SnT have actually entered the battlefield, so you can't choose whatever your opponent cheats in. This is the same reason Phantasmal Image/Phyrexian Metamorph didn't work with the old legend rule. Bummer, I liked the idea of having a catch all SnT answer that is playable, but not spectacular on its own.

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*Sigh*

Legacy was *this* close to finally having a catch-all for any card Show and Tell could cheat into play. Well... that's good knowing before I get a judge called on me for trying.

I'm still going to see if I can find room to test it, but with this information, I'm not going to have a full playset split between the main and the side anymore.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Titania will completely change ramp strategies forevermore. By far the best legacy ramp focus. Enables crazy strategies like scapeshift, or small advantages such as crop/fetch/chasm tricks.

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I have been testing then most recent list you posted and have been very happy with it after playtesting it against the current metagame a bit more. That being said, what would you change if you wanted to play Titania in 12 Post?

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

*Sigh*

Legacy was *this* close to finally having a catch-all for any card Show and Tell could cheat into play. Well... that's good knowing before I get a judge called on me for trying.

I'm still going to see if I can find room to test it, but with this information, I'm not going to have a full playset split between the main and the side anymore.

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So you cast it in response to S'n'T. Remember, the Priest has Flash.

Has anybody been playing against UR Delver much? Even with 4 BEB I'm having a difficult time against Price of Progress + Pyroblast/Force of Will backup and I'm something like 30-70 post board against it right now. Suggestions?

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Originally Posted by winglerw28

Has anybody been playing against UR Delver much? Even with 4 BEB I'm having a difficult time against Price of Progress + Pyroblast/Force of Will backup and I'm something like 30-70 post board against it right now. Suggestions?

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as great as elephant grass has treated me, I'm actually testing out elderscale wurm.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

as great as elephant grass has treated me, I'm actually testing out elderscale wurm.

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... in hopes that opponents won't be able to kill the creature? you plan to S&T it into play or hard cast? S&T makes it less reliable as you are already aware and casting it won't help against the fast matches...

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Originally Posted by apple713

... in hopes that opponents won't be able to kill the creature? you plan to S&T it into play or hard cast? S&T makes it less reliable as you are already aware and casting it won't help against the fast matches...

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How does Show & Tell make it less reliable? The plan works fine with Titan.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

How does Show & Tell make it less reliable? The plan works fine with Titan.

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in a game where you need to stop the bleeding quickly you cannot rely on assembling a 2 card combo with the limited digging in this deck in such a short amount of time...

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Originally Posted by Darkenslight

So you cast it in response to S'n'T. Remember, the Priest has Flash.

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I don't think we're talking about the same card here: Song of the Dryads does not have have flash.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

as great as elephant grass has treated me, I'm actually testing out elderscale wurm.

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That's... significantly more expensive than Elephant Grass and the most color intense card this deck has played to date. I thought your latest venture back on the last page was working out well for you in this warping meta. What's happened?

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Originally Posted by Mockingbird

That's... significantly more expensive than Elephant Grass and the most color intense card this deck has played to date. I thought your latest venture back on the last page was working out well for you in this warping meta. What's happened?

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Blood Moon doesn't hit you for 14-20. U/R Delver is moving away from Blood Moon and toward Price of Progress. And unlike Burn, they can protect it.

Yesterday I top 8'd a gpt with a similar list to what I won with previous week. Today we'll see what I can shake up.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

as great as elephant grass has treated me, I'm actually testing out elderscale wurm.

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Elderscale Wurm seems like it could be sweet, though with it I'd want more Show and Tells. If only it stopped Deathrite from putting you below 7 :/

On a semi-related note, I've improved the Delver MU considerably by cutting lands to get to 2 Vesuva, 2 Basic Island, 2 Basic Forest. I also have been unhappy with Chain of Vapor without as many targets and have changed the list to -3 Chain, +1 Repeal, +1 Show and Tell, +1 Crop Rotation. I have been much happier with this configuration and haven't really felt like I've sacrificed anywhere else outside of Delver.