[Deck] 12 Post

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

Another week and nobody tried my list. :confused:
I'm still winning slightly more than 2/3 of my matches on xmage with this.

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I tested your list extensively the same day you posted it. I thought I bopped back with my results.

I found the deck interesting, playing much more like Junk Nicfit than any other version of 12post, even the mono green version, which is the closest to Nicfit. Just knowing that I run U/G will probably hint to my criticisms and thoughts.

Cons:

I really missed brainstorm - In the Mono green version, you can just power through bricks stuck in your hand, but in this deck, if you are short on mana (many non-mana producing lands) with bricks, you lose. If you flood on mana (rare but happens, you don't have maps to dig you out of bad situations with eye. If your hand needs certain counterplay elements (Warping Wail, crop, EE) your ability to dig for them is often mana exhaustive without being profitable (no candelabra to recoup spent mana) All these problems brainstorm helps with tremendously.

The deck felt like Maverick - Maverick already has some huge issues of being KotR based, and I feel the same is true for this deck.

The deck could lose to other midrange/tempo - This is THE reason you go mono green. To have a near-bye to tempo/midrange builds. Your redundancy fights hymn/counters with light pressure, the entire theme of tempo. This deck though could have its legs cut out, with its greedy manabase and clunky cmc's of bricks.


Pros:

Tireless tracker was a boss. Card is incredible and I will value it much higher in the future for sideboards and meta building.


All in all, I enjoyed testing the deck, but my person pet peeve of 12post builds is simply sacrificing matchups. Legacy has an unusually healthy meta at the moment, so perhaps this niche type of deck could belong in a less tempo focused deck (meta heavy in aggro or combo), but would have to change if the meta was extra combo heavy. Thus my prediction is that if Eldrazi Aggro becomes even stronger than it already is, this deck could merit more testing.

I recently proxied your list for playtesting purposes. My brother has most of these cards, so I might try to slam this together sometime soon.

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

Minor changes:
1. I moved the Engineered Explosives into the maindeck, and i think that's the right move. Cut my 2nd Oracle and my 2nd Tracker. While it's sometimes great to have more of these in play, it's usually not necessary to win a game.

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How good are the explosives? The only time I've seen maindeck explosives is in Intuition Lands, which can recur them with Academy Ruins. (Would Academy Ruins be worth tossing in a trop? I'm guessing no, but being able to recur Crucible and Explosives might be really nice)

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

4. Cut the Horizon Canopy (the utility just never mattered), added a Sea Gate Wreckage. Not sure about that - the cut is definitely right, and i tested Sea Gate before and really like it, but i might need another Fetch or Fetchable instead. For now I'm greedy, but that needs more testing.

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I only played one match so far, but the Horizon Canopy saved my bacon. The extra Titania elemental from sacrificing it let me survive the turn I needed to drop Emrakul. Although I can see the Sea Gate Ruins being a lot better when it gets grindier.

This list feels like an absolute powerhouse.

Is there much it can do against Imperial Painter? That's big in my meta. And you've said that it's favorable against storm, is there much to do besides grab glimmerposts and waste somethng?

Went 3-1 in weekly legacy yesterday with this slightly modified list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 [NPH] Gut Shot


Loss was to Imperial painter (1-2 me playing derpy), wins were Merfolk (2-0), Elves (2-0), Reanimator (2-1)

Gut shot felt weak, although I did play vs elves, the one of three matchups it was there for (elves/grixis/infect). I would like for a reasonable method of removing magus, either sideboard or main. Open to ideas. Ratchet Bomb is my best idea thus far, but unsure where to fit it in an already tight main.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-1 in weekly legacy yesterday with this slightly modified list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
2 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [C14] Reclamation Sage
SB: 2 [NPH] Gut Shot


Loss was to Imperial painter (1-2 me playing derpy), wins were Merfolk (2-0), Elves (2-0), Reanimator (2-1)

Gut shot felt weak, although I did play vs elves, the one of three matchups it was there for (elves/grixis/infect). I would like for a reasonable method of removing magus, either sideboard or main. Open to ideas. Ratchet Bomb is my best idea thus far, but unsure where to fit it in an already tight main.

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I'm tinkering with Perilous Vault atm, because it's decay - safe, color independant and solves all Problems.

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Originally Posted by Leshrac82

Another week and nobody tried my list. :confused:
I'm still winning slightly more than 2/3 of my matches on xmage with this.

This is my latest version:

2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
3 Forest
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Eye of Ugin
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Dark Depths
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Glacial Chasm
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Wasteland
1 Vesuva
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost

1 Dryad Arbor
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Veteran Explorer
2 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Primeval Titan
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

3 Mox Diamond
3 Crop Rotation
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Warping Wail
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard:
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Warping Wail
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Krosan Grip
1 Crop Rotation
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Trinisphere
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Engineered Plague
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Toxic Deluge

Minor changes:
1. I moved the Engineered Explosives into the maindeck, and i think that's the right move. Cut my 2nd Oracle and my 2nd Tracker. While it's sometimes great to have more of these in play, it's usually not necessary to win a game.
2. Added 2x Surgical to the board. Even more graveyard hate, might just be necessary against the large number of graveyard decks im facing.
3. Cut one Bridge in the board for one Trinisphere. Don't know if that's good, but it should help against combo and Delver, that's pretty much all i want. For know i will keep one of both cards, as you might have noticed i like 1-ofs. :wink:
4. Cut the Horizon Canopy (the utility just never mattered), added a Sea Gate Wreckage. Not sure about that - the cut is definitely right, and i tested Sea Gate before and really like it, but i might need another Fetch or Fetchable instead. For now i'm greedy, but that needs more testing.

Overall i'm still really happy with this deck. It's a completely different approach than other 12-Post decks, but it has all the tools it needs and usually enough ways to find them. I think it doesn't have the weaknesses other non-blue 12-Post decks often have against aggressive decks and combo decks. For example i'm 15-9 against Storm, 10-4 against Burn and 10-3 against Belcher.

What the deck really needs is input and testing from other players.

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Sleeved up your first Version and played a few games. Felt like a complete different deck, but it worked really well. Will have to do some more testing before I can tell how strong it is, but it's absolutly worth giving it some hours of Play testing. Great ideas in it, especially Tracker rocks!:cool:

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Originally Posted by Postman

I'm tinkering with Perilous Vault atm, because it's decay - safe, color independant and solves all Problems.

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I like it over O Stone. Will definitely test it.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

The deck felt like Maverick - Maverick already has some huge issues of being KotR based, and I feel the same is true for this deck.

The deck could lose to other midrange/tempo - This is THE reason you go mono green. To have a near-bye to tempo/midrange builds. Your redundancy fights hymn/counters with light pressure, the entire theme of tempo. This deck though could have its legs cut out, with its greedy manabase and clunky cmc's of bricks.

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In the games I've played I only dropped a knight once, and all it did was fetch a dryad arbour that my opponent forgot I had to survive a diabolic edict, and fetch a maze so my primeval titan could survive swinging in. The knight definitely shines, but I can win games without ever seeing it.

Yes, it can lose to Midrange/tempo, however, it's still usually favourable. Personally I'm willing to turn a couple near-byes into still somewhat advantageous matches in order to make a lot of my bad matches better. (According to Leshrac82, that is. I don't know enough about traditional 12-post to know what its bad matches are...)

Plus it feels like an absurd cross between ramp, lands, and maverick, and I find it absurdly fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Kozilek

Plus it feels like an absurd cross between ramp, lands, and maverick, and I find it absurdly fun to play.

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Maybe I'm playing the deck differently then you, but I was often going for knight. The deck is definitely fun to play, just less competitive than I like to build them. Weirdly, only a 66% win rate I consider unacceptable since it won't get you a Top 8 in a 100+ person event.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Went 3-1 in weekly legacy yesterday with this slightly modified list:


SB: 2 [NPH] Gut Shot

Gut shot felt weak, although I did play vs elves, the one of three matchups it was there for (elves/grixis/infect). I would like for a reasonable method of removing magus, either sideboard or main. Open to ideas. Ratchet Bomb is my best idea thus far, but unsure where to fit it in an already tight main.

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Couldn't you just play spatial contortion? Obviously it won't help if Magus of the Moon is in play, but it's spot removal for elves, grixis and infect. Provided you contort infect on your turn. :-)

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Originally Posted by militiaman89

Has anyone tried running a burning wish build to help out some consistency problems? The sorcery SB could greatly help out with a ton of hefty cards that do work against us. Just brainstorming right now but something to this sort of build.

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I don't know about Burning Wish, but I've wanted to make Living Wish work for a very long time.

On one hand, it would be a way to mitigate the annoyance of drawing the wrong silver bullet land for the matchup, play more silver bullet SB creatures, and hedge against Wasteland + Surgical on Post. On the other hand, you wouldn't be able to Crop Rotation for something in your wishboard, so no instant-speed Bojuka Bog to blow out combo. And keeping a Cloudpost in your board substantially lowers the odds of naturally seeing one in your critical first few turns, which in turn makes Vesuva much worse.


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Originally Posted by Zotmaster

I may give it a shot if/when I start streaming again. There are some concepts in there that I don't like - I hate the Depths/Stage combo - but overall it's definitely interesting. My schedule is always messed up but if I end up playing it, I'll definitely give you some feedback!

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I look forward to it! :smile:

The Depths/Stage combo is imo stronger in my deck because i play Mox Diamond. If i don't want the Depths i can often discard it to a Mox, and if i want to combo i can often do that a turn faster when i have a Mox in play. Overall i often discard utility lands i don't want in the matchup to Mox Diamond. When i don't need the mana right away i usually don't play out my Mox until i have a better idea what i'm up against.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I tested your list extensively the same day you posted it. I thought I bopped back with my results.

I really missed brainstorm - In the Mono green version, you can just power through bricks stuck in your hand, but in this deck, if you are short on mana (many non-mana producing lands) with bricks, you lose. If you flood on mana (rare but happens, you don't have maps to dig you out of bad situations with eye. If your hand needs certain counterplay elements (Warping Wail, crop, EE) your ability to dig for them is often mana exhaustive without being profitable (no candelabra to recoup spent mana) All these problems brainstorm helps with tremendously.

The deck felt like Maverick - Maverick already has some huge issues of being KotR based, and I feel the same is true for this deck.

The deck could lose to other midrange/tempo - This is THE reason you go mono green. To have a near-bye to tempo/midrange builds. Your redundancy fights hymn/counters with light pressure, the entire theme of tempo. This deck though could have its legs cut out, with its greedy manabase and clunky cmc's of bricks.

All in all, I enjoyed testing the deck, but my person pet peeve of 12post builds is simply sacrificing matchups. Legacy has an unusually healthy meta at the moment, so perhaps this niche type of deck could belong in a less tempo focused deck (meta heavy in aggro or combo), but would have to change if the meta was extra combo heavy. Thus my prediction is that if Eldrazi Aggro becomes even stronger than it already is, this deck could merit more testing.

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Thx for the feedback!

There are certainly situations where the deck just loses because without Brainstorm there isn't that much card selection, but that doesn't happen very often - i still have Top and i have a lot of tutors. I can't search up most of my counterplay elements, but there are usually enough useful cards to have some of them in hand postboard.

My midrange matchups feel ok to me. I don't have a great Delver matchup, but all the changes i made should help there and it feels like 50/50 now against BUG and Grixis Delver. I don't think other 12post builds are big favourites against these decks either? The deck isn't redundant in the sense of lots of 4-ofs, but all the creatures are capable of winning any game against midrange decks. Shardless BUG is certainly not a bye, but i think i'm at least slightly favored against them.

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Originally Posted by Kozilek

I recently proxied your list for playtesting purposes. My brother has most of these cards, so I might try to slam this together sometime soon.


How good are the explosives? The only time I've seen maindeck explosives is in Intuition Lands, which can recur them with Academy Ruins. (Would Academy Ruins be worth tossing in a trop? I'm guessing no, but being able to recur Crucible and Explosives might be really nice)



I only played one match so far, but the Horizon Canopy saved my bacon. The extra Titania elemental from sacrificing it let me survive the turn I needed to drop Emrakul. Although I can see the Sea Gate Ruins being a lot better when it gets grindier.

This list feels like an absolute powerhouse.

Is there much it can do against Imperial Painter? That's big in my meta. And you've said that it's favorable against storm, is there much to do besides grab glimmerposts and waste somethng?

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The explosives have different applications:
1. They are good removal against aggressive starts from aggro/midrange decks. It's often a 2 for 1 or better and can buy a lot of time.
2. They are a maindeck answer to basically every problematic permanent. It's not that hard to get them out for 3 to kill a Liliana or a Blood Moon.

I had the explosives in the board for a long time, eventually i realized i boarded them in against most decks and would often want them in game 1.

I thought about about Academy Ruins, but i don't think the list can support another color.

The Horizon Canopy can in theory be a carddraw engine on its own with Crucible and Oracle out (and Gitrog and Titania add even more value). But in my games that either didn't come up, or when i had that boardstate it didn't matter any more, because the game was pretty much over anyway. I often had situations where i had a Canopy in play, both players didn't really have a board, i had no cards in hand and just wished that was a Sea Gate so i could draw additional cards for some turns. Drawing just one card with Canopy could help, but often i still didn't have that much mana and wasn't really sure if i wanted to sacrifice the land. And i also had situations where i wished the canopy were a forest to sacrifice to a Knight.

Painter is a strange matchup. On the one hand, they can shut down our deck pretty good, on the other hand, their combo doesn't work as long as Emrakul is in the deck (they usually have just 1-2 sideboard cards to deal with that). So far i only lost to this deck when they had Jaya Ballard and a lot of Red Blasts. Blood Moon just slows us down, they aren't really a deck that can capitalize on that.
Storm is very hard in Game 1, but gets a lot better postboard. Crop Rotation into Bojuka Bog can stop the Past in Flames kill, Warping Wail can counter their critical spells (usually Infernal Tutor when they are hellbent, sometimes Dark Petition or if they play it Burning Wish, and Past in Flames if you don't have the crop). Some hateful permanents also buy time, they have answers to Leyline and Gaddock Teeg, but they have to find them. You can also kill them really fast with the Depths combo, going for a Crop Rotation into the combo at their endstep is a good way to keep up mana to interact if needed and still kill them the next turn. Most of my postboard games against Storm actually end when they go off with Ad Nauseam because they have to and don't find what they need.

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Originally Posted by Kozilek

Yes, it can lose to Midrange/tempo, however, it's still usually favourable. Personally I'm willing to turn a couple near-byes into still somewhat advantageous matches in order to make a lot of my bad matches better. (According to Leshrac82, that is. I don't know enough about traditional 12-post to know what its bad matches are...)

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To make that clear, i don't know that much about traditional 12-post either. Most of my knowledge about it is from this thread and from talking to other 12post players i faced. That leads me to believe almost all combo decks are usually a bad matchup especially for non-blue lists, and going by my results that's certainly not true for this deck.

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Maybe I'm playing the deck differently then you, but I was often going for knight. The deck is definitely fun to play, just less competitive than I like to build them. Weirdly, only a 66% win rate I consider unacceptable since it won't get you a Top 8 in a 100+ person event.

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I'm often going for Knight too, if it lives it will probably win the game, but the deck can certainly win without it - the earlier versions of this deck didn't have a Knight and were not that much worse.

When i build the deck at first, it wasn't supposed to be that competitive. I was just trying to brew something fun to play that has a winrate close enough to 50%, but my results were just much better than i ever expected. The 66% winrate is what i can do with the deck right now, in a meta where Storm is the most played deck and Miracles doesn't even make the Top 10 (it's actually tied with Belcher for 11th place). And i don't think i'm that good - i certainly got better, especially with this deck, but i still make a lot of mistakes.

In my C/g build, I've been running 2x All Is Dust and 2x Ugin main, 1x O-Stone, 2x Ratchet Bomb board. I'm thinking about swapping a Dust and either Bomb or O-Stone to improve my game 1 vs Eldrazi.

All Is Dust is much better than O-Stone in almost every other matchup. Aside from being cheaper (and the deck has more ways to hit 7 on T3 than 8), it leaves your Needles intact. Wiping the board with O-Stone leaves you open to Wasteland if you don't have time to put a fate counter on Needle. While there is something to be said for sticking an O-Stone early and threatening the wipe at instant speed, I prefer the one-sidedness of Dust. Miracles also needs a hard counter for Dust; while that's already our best matchup, it's a large enough chunk of the meta that I dislike giving up percentage against them. That said, it is just demoralizing to see Dust in your hand against Eldrazi; at least Ugin can kill Revokers and Mimics.

Moving a Bomb main also has merit. The primary problem with Eldrazi is Chalice. They can't interact with Pithing Needle any other way, and Maze of Ith is just amazing against them if you can turn off Wasteland. Bomb also is also infinitely better vs Storm than either Dust or O-Stone because you can drop it early and force (or at least threaten) awkward LED activations. It's also equally good at fighting Blood Moon as O-Stone, since you can pop for 3 as early as T5, whereas you need 7 actual land drops for Dust. On the other hand, Bomb is much worse than either of them against decks like Shardless that play threats at multiple costs. It's also more susceptible to Revoker than O-Stone, since you don't have the option to play and pop immediately (at least, not if you want to hit anything besides Chalice or tokens).

Thoughts? Which do people think is optimal to run main in the current meta?


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Who here is going to take 12Post to Eternal Extravaganza 4??

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

In my C/g build, I've been running 2x All Is Dust and 2x Ugin main, 1x O-Stone, 2x Ratchet Bomb board. I'm thinking about swapping a Dust and either Bomb or O-Stone to improve my game 1 vs Eldrazi.

All Is Dust is much better than O-Stone in almost every other matchup. Aside from being cheaper (and the deck has more ways to hit 7 on T3 than 8), it leaves your Needles intact. Wiping the board with O-Stone leaves you open to Wasteland if you don't have time to put a fate counter on Needle. While there is something to be said for sticking an O-Stone early and threatening the wipe at instant speed, I prefer the one-sidedness of Dust. Miracles also needs a hard counter for Dust; while that's already our best matchup, it's a large enough chunk of the meta that I dislike giving up percentage against them. That said, it is just demoralizing to see Dust in your hand against Eldrazi; at least Ugin can kill Revokers and Mimics.

Moving a Bomb main also has merit. The primary problem with Eldrazi is Chalice. They can't interact with Pithing Needle any other way, and Maze of Ith is just amazing against them if you can turn off Wasteland. Bomb also is also infinitely better vs Storm than either Dust or O-Stone because you can drop it early and force (or at least threaten) awkward LED activations. It's also equally good at fighting Blood Moon as O-Stone, since you can pop for 3 as early as T5, whereas you need 7 actual land drops for Dust. On the other hand, Bomb is much worse than either of them against decks like Shardless that play threats at multiple costs. It's also more susceptible to Revoker than O-Stone, since you don't have the option to play and pop immediately (at least, not if you want to hit anything besides Chalice or tokens).

Thoughts? Which do people think is optimal to run main in the current meta?


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i'm playing 3 bombs MB and find them helpful. With tombs they can come down t1. Paired with 3x MP in the board i feel favorite against the eldrazis lately. Not having to board in Kgrip is just great against chalice and besides eldrazi doesnt have a great game against SnT - plat / titan, which can consitently come down before knot in the build im running... However the bomb is lacking in some matchups like the mentioned shardless.
Agreed on task mage in painter - probably the worst card to see on the board

Okay so guess to which deck i lost 2 just now? yes you're right - Miracles !!
Guess which card the dude was playing in his SB? something for eldrazis... it was f*** Ruination. :eek: Didn't even know that existed. i guess the eldrazis are making much more problems for us compared to the card pool they brought us...
that card is just sick. okay if you expect it WW can help and you bring in flusters nevertheless Ruination is no laughing matter. has anyone encountered it lately?

I've run into another miracles player running that card as well recently. I was tinkering around with an odd build at the time and had 10 basic forests in the list, and oddly drew most of them so it didn't ever get cast. My assessment was about the same as yours. We're catching a bit of hate meant for the eldrazi decks.

Went 3-1 this week using Ehhh's Gw list with some slight differences.

R1: Win vs Aggro Loam 2-1.
R2: Win vs Grixis Control 2-1.
R3: Lose vs Affinity 0-2.
R4: Win vs Miracles 2-0.

List for reference:
4 cloudpost
4 glimmerpost
4 vesuva
4 misty rainforest
3 forest
2 savannah
1 glacial chasm
1 tabernacle
1 cavern of souls
1 eye of ugin
1 karakas
1 khalni garden
1 bojuka bog
1 Thespian's stage

1 veteran explorer
3 thought-knot seer
4 primeval titan
1 kozilek, butcher of truth
1 ulamog, the ceaseless hunger
1 emrakul, the aeons torn

4 sensei's diving top
2 expedition map
1 candelabra of tawnos
1 sylvan library
4 crop rotation
3 warping wail
3 green sun's zenith
2 ugin, the spirit dragon

Board:
1 gaddock teeg
1 ethersworn canonist
1 chalice of the void
1 thorn of amethyst
1 sphere of resistance
1 trinisphere
2 rest in peace
1 sundering titan
1 cursed totem
1 elephant grass
1 choke
1 reclamation sage
2 krosan grip





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I had to put down 12 post for a couple weeks because the 3 miracles decks in my local meta started running that card. The unfortunate part was that my sacred ground curves perfectly with their lines of either tear or council's judgement into ruination. From the ashes was another they ran against me. That one didn't hurt as bad since I was on 4 basics and could rebuild a bit

Yeah... I think it's a spalsh damage of the eldrazi menace. Remember you can warping wail them back! :-) Likewise, you know what Ruination/FtA is also good against? LANDS!

@MechTactical What is MP?


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

@MechTactical What is MP?

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Moment's Peace is the only thing I can come up with that makes sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

@MechTactical What is MP?


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Moment's peace

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

Curious to your Aluren and eldrazi losses. Details?

World Breaker is in the 4th Grip slot as an uncounterable grip with feet. Being devoid and reach is a bonus.

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Aluren I lost game 1 because I just didn't have anything to fight him with, his deck looked somewhat like Shardless BUG until he dropped Aluren and then I died.

Game 2 I could have fizzled him with Engineered Explosives but I cracked it the wrong time. I had a discussion with him after to find the right line on where to fizzle him and I think I have a better grasp of it now, it really just comes down to I had no idea how to pilot that matchup. It still feels like a not great matchup, especially game 1 unless I happen to stumble into EE in time

My first Eldrazi loss came down to a close game 3 where I had an Ensnaring Bridge holding off a bunch of 2 power creatures (and higher). So much so that he used Warping Wail for a 1/1 to beat me with. I was stuck with an uncastable Primeval Titan in hand since I had 4 lands. I cracked an Expedition Map to grab the 2nd Green Mana and I drew a Primeval Titan so I had 2 in hand, I was at 14, he hit for for 7. I had 5 lands on the field, all the colors to cast a Titan, so I needed to draw an Untapped land. I drew a Cloudpost, and died.

The 2nd match where I lost I got rolled over game 1, then game 2 got an early Glacial Chasm down. With Top active, had an Ensnaring Bridge sitting on top - but I didn't even consider his Thoughtknot Seer + Eldrazi Displacer, which on my draw step after me going into the tank about whether to keep Chasm (at 12 life would have gone to 8) he promptly activated Displacer to blink TKS, taking my Bridge. I had let Chasm go because I knew I would land Bridge and that would buy me more than enough time and the extra 4 life could be needed later. The chasm wasn't the misplay, the not floating Bridge 3rd was the misplay.

I don't remember enough of the other details, but Bridge is very good in this matchup, and one I got unlucky, and the other I brutally misplayed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

Yeah... I think it's a spalsh damage of the eldrazi menace. Remember you can warping wail them back! :-) Likewise, you know what Ruination/FtA is also good against? LANDS!

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Ruination is one of the reasons I keep Sacred Ground in the sideboard, and why I put Warping Wail back in after a brief period without any. The card demands respect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Corazu

Aluren I lost game 1 because I just didn't have anything to fight him with, his deck looked somewhat like Shardless BUG until he dropped Aluren and then I died.

Game 2 I could have fizzled him with Engineered Explosives but I cracked it the wrong time. I had a discussion with him after to find the right line on where to fizzle him and I think I have a better grasp of it now, it really just comes down to I had no idea how to pilot that matchup. It still feels like a not great matchup, especially game 1 unless I happen to stumble into EE in time

My first Eldrazi loss came down to a close game 3 where I had an Ensnaring Bridge holding off a bunch of 2 power creatures (and higher). So much so that he used Warping Wail for a 1/1 to beat me with. I was stuck with an uncastable Primeval Titan in hand since I had 4 lands. I cracked an Expedition Map to grab the 2nd Green Mana and I drew a Primeval Titan so I had 2 in hand, I was at 14, he hit for for 7. I had 5 lands on the field, all the colors to cast a Titan, so I needed to draw an Untapped land. I drew a Cloudpost, and died.

The 2nd match where I lost I got rolled over game 1, then game 2 got an early Glacial Chasm down. With Top active, had an Ensnaring Bridge sitting on top - but I didn't even consider his Thoughtknot Seer + Eldrazi Displacer, which on my draw step after me going into the tank about whether to keep Chasm (at 12 life would have gone to 8) he promptly activated Displacer to blink TKS, taking my Bridge. I had let Chasm go because I knew I would land Bridge and that would buy me more than enough time and the extra 4 life could be needed later. The chasm wasn't the misplay, the not floating Bridge 3rd was the misplay.

I don't remember enough of the other details, but Bridge is very good in this matchup, and one I got unlucky, and the other I brutally misplayed.

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interesting. I wouldn't say it wasn't a brutal misplay. it's not that easy to see that interaction if you didn't encounter it b4.
I'm having quite a blast playing against d eldrazis since i feel i'm favorite with the current list. I'm more worried about all the "eldrazi land hate" going around these days.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

interesting. I wouldn't say it wasn't a brutal misplay. it's not that easy to see that interaction if you didn't encounter it b4.
I'm having quite a blast playing against d eldrazis since i feel i'm favorite with the current list. I'm more worried about all the "eldrazi land hate" going around these days.

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I am very surprised that noone here has seen Ruination/Crumble to Dust here before. The local Miracle players in my meta have been playing ruination for over 3+ years. I had just assumed it was known information. Granted, the people concerned about this are mostly all running non-blue variants, and flusterstorm/swan song is almost always your trump vs them.

Perhaps this is just due to my teammate being hellbent on providing the most nightmarish meta decks possible for me, and always includes some backbreaking hate in their sideboard for me to deal with.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rock Lee

I am very surprised that noone here has seen Ruination/Crumble to Dust here before. The local Miracle players in my meta have been playing ruination for over 3+ years. I had just assumed it was known information. Granted, the people concerned about this are mostly all running non-blue variants, and flusterstorm/swan song is almost always your trump vs them.

Perhaps this is just due to my teammate being hellbent on providing the most nightmarish meta decks possible for me, and always includes some backbreaking hate in their sideboard for me to deal with.

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From the Ashes is also a thing.

Got 5th at Bunch of Duals 57 person event locally with this list:

// Lands
4 [MR] Cloudpost
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [WWK] Eye of Ugin
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [SOM] Glimmerpost
1 [WWK] Bojuka Bog
1 [ON] Island (1)
4 [R] Tropical Island
1 [IA] Glacial Chasm
2 [TSP] Vesuva
1 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
1 [R] Forest (3)

// Creatures
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [BFZ] Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 [M11] Primeval Titan
2 [FD] Trinket Mage

// Spells
4 [5E] Brainstorm
3 [UL] Crop Rotation
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [US] Show and Tell
2 [10E] Pithing Needle
3 [OGW] Warping Wall
2 [SH] Ensnaring Bridge
2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [ZEN] Expedition Map
1 [FRF] Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
1 [ME4] Candelabra of Tawnos
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
1 [CMD] Oblivion Stone

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [JGC] Flusterstorm
SB: 1 [OGW] World Breaker
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 [THS] Swan Song
SB: 1 [LG] Sylvan Library


Swiss was vs Pox (2-0), Grixis (2-1), Dnt (2-0), Shardless Bug (1-2), Shardless Bug (2-0), Eldrazi Aggro (2-0)

Top 8 Loss vs Miracles. Horrible horrible puntsx2 on my part. Most shameful loss vs Miracles to date. Didn't get Chasm + Eye of Ugin off a Titan Game 1. and Game 2 after eot Grip'ing Blood Moon, didn't Exile red source with World Breaker to stop their 2nd blood moon, which they then dropped.

The deck and build did great, my play was sloppy. Still, got a Trop for my troubles.

Curious, y'all run a karakas but no white spell? How often do you actually use it just for bounce?
Wouldn't you want to make use of that white source for some white spell?

I realize it's mostly irrelevant but I just hate the idea of using a land for just half its effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

Curious, y'all run a karakas but no white spell? How often do you actually use it just for bounce?
Wouldn't you want to make use of that white source for some white spell?

I realize it's mostly irrelevant but I just hate the idea of using a land for just half its effect.

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It's a huge effect though. It allows you to board Emrakul Airlines, where you take all of the turns for the rest of the game. A very classic play is Titan > Cloudpost and Eye, next Titan activation gets Cloudpost and Karakas, tutor up Emrakul and the game is over.

And it does have random utility against random stuff that pisses you off. Lands can't win with Karakas out. It can bounce Griselbrand, other Emrakuls, or even Thalia.

Top 16 at Legacy Classic! We in it boys.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=104212
Only thing I would probably change would be to take out the platinum imperion for something not sure what but I never actually ended up using it throughout the weekend for anything other than laughs after I had already won.

Oh right I lost to miracles game 1 venser karakas land lock into nahiri blow up my candelabra into emrakul game 2 he played a moat and I drew into nothing useful while he beat me over the top with clique
annnd mono U omnishow game 1 I land a titan into eye cloudpost with enough mana to fish out emrakul on his endstep and he dreamhalls cunning wish into firemind insight intuition omniscience emrakul plus jace bouncing his own emrakul for enough turns to win
game 2 thought-knot seer into a hand full of duplicates pass and he snt's into omniscience enter the infinite dreamhalls shenanigans on turn 5 shake hands and play a few more for fun.

Just a quick report from EE4...I started out the day with GW 12post 0-1-1 but rallied back to 6-2-1, (although technically 5-2-2). Here are my quick notes:

Round 1 Sneak and Show, Loss 0-1-0:

• Game 1 involved a show and tell where I put in a primetime to a grislebrand. Primetime won that race. :-)
• Game 2 ended in a sneak attack from grislebrand into draw 14 into petal, emrakul.
• Game 3 ended quickly with a turn two show and tell. My options of cards to put into play were... Primeval Titan, Emrakul or Reclaimation Sage. I chose Emrakul, he chose Omniscience into cast Grislbrand into draw 7 into Emrakul. I'm not sure what the right play was in that scenario. I'm going to say potentially Rec Sage, but if he put in Emrakul, I would have looked like a big dummy.

Round 2 RB Goblins, Draw? 0-1-1: Gummed up the first game so much that I pulled out a victory while chewing up ~40 minutes on the clock. The second game lasted less than 5. Glacial chasm and lifegain yielded the draw. I needed a few more turns to turn the corner.
Round 3, Grixis Painter Win 1-1-1. Leyline of Sanctity prevented me from dying for multiple turns. Card is fantastic! I also warping wailed a painter servant back to shadowmoor where it belongs.
Round 4, Death and Taxes, Win 2-1-1.
Round 5, Miracles, Win 3-1-1.
Round 6, Food Chain, Loss 3-2-1.

• Won Game 1 only because I thoughtknot seered away the tidespout tyrannt.
• Lost Games 2 and 3. Game 3 resulted in a mulligan to 5. I resolved a turn 2 Choke, but failed to draw additional lands for multiple turns. Eventually my

Round 7, Death and Taxes, Win 4-2-1.
Round 8, Naya Good Stuff, Win 5-2-1.
Round 9, Imperial Taxes. Intentational Draw for credit.

Ehhh's base list with the following SB.
2 Choke
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Bojuga Bog
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Rest in Peace
1 Reclaimation Sage
1 Krosan Grip

Cut CoP: Red because i decided to just Dodge burn. It worked!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyborg

Top 16 at Legacy Classic! We in it boys.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=104212
Only thing I would probably change would be to take out the platinum imperion for something not sure what but I never actually ended up using it throughout the weekend for anything other than laughs after I had already won.

Oh right I lost to miracles game 1 venser karakas land lock into nahiri blow up my candelabra into emrakul game 2 he played a moat and I drew into nothing useful while he beat me over the top with clique
annnd mono U omnishow game 1 I land a titan into eye cloudpost with enough mana to fish out emrakul on his endstep and he dreamhalls cunning wish into firemind insight intuition omniscience emrakul plus jace bouncing his own emrakul for enough turns to win
game 2 thought-knot seer into a hand full of duplicates pass and he snt's into omniscience enter the infinite dreamhalls shenanigans on turn 5 shake hands and play a few more for fun.

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Congrats on the finish!
Interesting list, somewhat similar to what I'm running. Aren't you missing at least one more target for SnT in the list? i've moved up to 2x plat MB and now i have 6 valid targets + emrakul...

Honestly I replaced the mb platinum imperions for ancient stirrings they let me dig for gas super hard. Random thought I had tho while thinking about what I would like as another snt target why not tidespout tyrant? We have a butt ton of mana and sensei's chain would be super easy to just run away with the field at that point. and we can hard cast it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cyborg

Honestly I replaced the mb platinum imperions for ancient stirrings they let me dig for gas super hard. Random thought I had tho while thinking about what I would like as another snt target why not tidespout tyrant? We have a butt ton of mana and sensei's chain would be super easy to just run away with the field at that point. and we can hard cast it.

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I was wondering about other SnT targets as well. Maybe tyrant could be a viable SnT target, though i have second thoughts about hard casting it since i'm often mana screwed anyway. I'm happy to get the 1x U for SnT :laugh: I can't imagine consistently hitting 3xU without some-sort of additional fixing... furthermore plat serves as a MB plan against the likes of burn, storm, eldrazis, goblins, UR delver, merfolk, elves, ... basically anything that can hit you for lethal fast, except infect of course... i don't see tyrant replacing plat in these match-ups?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sidneyious

Curious, y'all run a karakas but no white spell? How often do you actually use it just for bounce?
Wouldn't you want to make use of that white source for some white spell?

I realize it's mostly irrelevant but I just hate the idea of using a land for just half its effect.

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I'd prefer if Karakas tapped for colorless, but it doesn't matter. The effect is incredibly powerful. It's an easily tutorable answer to major threats out of multiple decks. And you haven't lived until you've drawn 16 cards in one turn off Kozilek or exiled an opponent's entire board with Ulamog. Or going to turns and then taking four of them with Emrakul (I had to make extra land drops to take out double Bridge).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Possible new spoiler of the latest incarnation of everyone's favorite spaghetti monster:

http://i.imgur.com/XvXnFaO.jpg

It's on Mythic Spoiler so it might actually be real. I'll end up brewing with it, but man, as a deck that actually produces the mana to cast, this is a huge letdown.

The new Emrakul is confirmed in WotC's official YouTube video.

What do we think?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cwcomposer

The new Emrakul is confirmed in WotC's official YouTube video.

What do we think?

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At first glance it looks awful. The one little perk to it is that its abilities are such that decks that cheat it into play almost certainly wouldn't use it, which means that Post is probably the deck that would get the most out of it. It's all going to come down to how fast we can cast it and how much damage we can do on the turn we steal.

Like I said, I'll end up brewing with it, but I'm hoping it's much better than I think it is.

I'm trying to think of "After that turn, that player takes an extra turn" as that the "extra" turn is an inserted one where you can mess up your opponent's plan. Your opponent isn't getting an "extra" turn, YOU are. They're getting their normal turn but only after you controlled all their stuff and screwed up their game plan for a turn.

Immediately ask to see their sideboard and hope they just concede. Suicide attack their biggest creature into Emrakul. Cast any sorcery-speed removal on something of theirs, not yours. Have fun with any other spells they might hold. Skip their land drop.

Plus, it can't be that hard for us to get two card types in our 'yard (land and artifact), which means that with Eye of Ugin new Emrakul costs only 9 mana. Doesn't seem so bad to me.

The big question: is it better than what we're already doing?