[Deck] Dredge

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Originally Posted by Vlad Teppes

got your point, but draw spells are the premier targets for discard and counterspells,and Pimp is horrible in multiples (draw spells on the other hand are awsome), but you definitely got a good point, Pimp can work well in the graveyard (ichorid food) is cabal therapy food and is a repetitive discard outlet and beater, I wouldn't run any less than 3.

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Putrid Imp and to a lesser extent Tireless Tribe aren't critical engines in Dredge, I think it was Breathweapon who advocated removing Putrid Imps entirely and relying completely on your opponent to always choose to play first in order to move directly into the DDD strategy with +4 cards in the deck? Given the success of Manaless Dredge, It would stand to reason there is still some kind of hybrid out there that would obviate the need for Putrid Imp altogether.

I'd still rather not be cold to a Relic of Progenitus tho' and think Imp and Tribe get a bad rap IMO.

I have been thinking about this deck on and off for a while, want to take a break from what I normally play and pull this put of its box, but I want to get some views on something first.

I run a Quad list, with one less Imp and Thug for 2 Lands. This means I have my Dread Returns in the side with some targets. But there for lies the rub. I think, if I am going to be honest, I only have space in the deck for either the combo or Hate. So what do people rate higher, hate or Dread?

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

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Originally Posted by Dice_Box

I have been thinking about this deck on and off for a while, want to take a break from what I normally play and pull this put of its box, but I want to get some views on something first.

I run a Quad list, with one less Imp and Thug for 2 Lands. This means I have my Dread Returns in the side with some targets. But there for lies the rub. I think, if I am going to be honest, I only have space in the deck for either the combo or Hate. So what do people rate higher, hate or Dread?

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

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I say it depends on what kind of hate you are going to face, if you only face surgical extraction, relic of progenitus and tormod's crypt I say that a dread return package can be excelent

on the other hand, if graffdiger cage is a problem I say go for the anti hate.

Have in mind that anti hate can also be used against common cards in legacy ( Batterskull, jittle, etc) while dread return requires some set up to be used

Sup guys, I've taken Dredge to a local tournament. After a LONG time playing Canadian Thresh, I still have my mojo with Ichorid, and went 4-0.

List:
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
2 Tarnished Citadel
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
3 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Bridge from Below
1 Dread Return
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 3 Nether Shadow
SB: 2 Ancient Grudge
SB: 1 Dread Return
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

It went as it follows:

Shardless BUG (2-0)

G1: I mulligan to 6 on the play, and had a pretty reasonable turn 2 Coliseum. Started with Gemstone into Looting and dumped Troll and Narcomoeba. He starts with Thoughtseize, taking my Cabal Therapy (pretty much the only card he could take). I dredge the troll into two Stinkweed Imps, and Cephalid Coliseum for the goodies. I make 6 zombies after 3 Therapies, first misses on Maelstrom Pulse, but hit Brainstorm and Shardless Agent. He draws for the turn and concedes.

-4 Lion's Eye Diamond +4 Pithing Needle

G2: I keep my 7 with PImp, Careful Study and Needle but no Dredger. He starts with Deathrite Shaman. I needle it. Then he Brainstorm and fetches, playing another Deathrite, and attacking for 1. I draw a land for the turn and my Careful Study gives me Thug and a Breakthrough. Play PImp and pass. He plays another Brainstorm into fetch, digging for that Abrupt Decay, but isn't able to find it. I dump Thug EOT, and dredge into nothing. Dump him again and Breakthrough for X=0, and chain dredge into every possible Bridge and Narcomoeba in my deck as well as the Dread Return, but only 1 Therapy. I name Maelstrom Pulse again (pretty much the only card that could beat me) and miss again, and make a LOT of zombies, as well as a 11/11 Troll. He concedes.

UWR Delver (2-1)

G1: This match was really Canadian Thresh style. I'm on the draw with a pretty good hand, Careful Study, Troll, LED and Land. He plays fetch -> Volcanic Island -> Ponder. I play City of Brass into LED and it takes a Force of Will. Then my Careful Study meets a Daze and I'm out of the game.

I didn't SB (wasn't sure what to board against, RiP or Surgical)

G2: I start with Citadel into Therapy naming Delver, hitting two of them and I see a RiP in his hand and no permission. He goes for fetch, pass. I play Cephalid Coliseum, hardcast Narcomoeba and nail the RiP. He plays another land and passes. I draw PImp for the turn, and pass. He bolts my PImp, but I discard Bridge and Stinkweed Imp in response, getting a Zombie. He plays Stoneforge into Batterskull and pass. I dredge Stinkweed into two Trolls, and Cephalid Coliseum into another Narcomoeba, 2 Bridges, 1 Therapy and 1 Ichorid. I Therapy the skull, and pass. He plays Brainstorm, fetches and pass. I return Ichorid, and and attack with 3 tokens + Ichorid. He blocks Ichorid (misplay) and puts Sword of Fire and Ice into play with Mystic's ability, and I get 3 zombies from that attack step. He draws and plays Geist of the Saint Traft, but he's too far behind at that point, with 11 life and no mana to equip Geist on the same turn.

-4 Lion's Eye Diamond +4 Chain of Vapor

G3: He mulligans to five and I mulligan to a REALLY good six, with 2 Lands, 1 Troll, 1 Bridge, 1 Looting and 1 Breakthrough. He goes land -> Delver. I go land -> Looting, resolves. He Brainstorms to flip his Delver, and attacks me for 3, then plays another land. I dredge into Stinkweed Imp and 2 Ichorids. Play another land, and cast Breakthrough for X=0, resolves. I dredge 2/3 of my deck, and hit 3 Therapies (1 for RiP, 1 for Lightning Bolt and 1 for Umezawa's Jitte). He has his lonesome Delver against 8 tokens and 2 Ichorids on standby. He draws for the turn and concedes.

ANT (2-1) (all three games took us 5 minutes, and 15 minutes shuffling).

G1: I'm on the play, and he kills me on his turn 1 with Land -> 2x Dark Ritual -> Ad Nauseam.

-1 Ichorid -1 PImp +1 Dread Return +1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

G2: I turn 1 him on the play with, bringing Iona for Black, and he concedes.

G3: He plays Preordain on his T1. I turn 1 him again, with a GODLY hand (Gemstone Mine, LED, LED, Looting, Breakthrough, Golgari Grave-Troll, Golgari Grave-Troll). I dredge 50 cards in 1 turn, and leave him with a lonesome Polluted Delta after 4 Therapies, and Iona on Blue.

Shardless BUG (2-0)

G1: He mulls to five, and start with a weak fetch -> Ancestral Vision. I start with Careful Study, and set up a T2 Coliseum. He draws and plays Deathrite Shaman, pass. I go nuts with Coliseum, cast 3 Therapies leaving him with Liliana and lands, making 6 zombies. He draws for the turn, and Abrupt Decay one token. I return 1 Ichorid (he exiles another in my upkeep, going to 21 life), attack for 13. He draws, but can't find his 1-of Maelstrom Pulse and concedes.

-4 Lion's Eye Diamond +4 Pithing Needle

G2: I keep a one lander with Needle, Breakthrough and Thug. He goes for T1 Nihil Spellbomb, I needle it. He plays Baleful Strix, pass. I draw Looting and cast it, dumping Narcomoeba and Thug. He plays Shardless Agent and cascades into another Spellbomb (lol). I cross my fingers, hoping to dredge another dredger, and I do. I play Breakthrough for X=0, and that's game.



Maindeck was really good, I mulligan only one no-lander. I didn't board Nether Shadow in all games, because I saw 0 Surgical Extracion. Still, they're very good, and I won't replace them for a while. Ancient Grudges has been really useless (for the past two months, at least). I might trim it down to 1. Maybe fit Elesh Norn, or something like that.

Seems like Pithing Needle has been working wonders out of the sideboard against a lot of decks unprepared for it coming in.

Nice work.

Yes, I am noticing that too. I think it's because it can hit all the most common Art hate (save Cage) and hit the two most common Creature hate. Since these days prople are starting to think DRS is their saving grace with Ooze as backup if needed, Needle may just be the best answer right now. I am going to side it up this week.

Sent from my mobile, forgive spelling and grammatical errors.

Nice job dude. A few comments for you to think about.
°Round 1 game 1, if you have access to multiple Therapies, I wouldn't name Pulse with the first because it's usually only a one of. Since he's tapped out I would name Brainstorm first here.
°Round 2 Game 2, that was a ballsy attack and he should have blocked a zombie with the Mystic and plopped in the sword, exiling your Bridges. It worked out for you though. For sideboard games against UWR Tempo I would expect either Tormod's or RiP. Surgical has been slightly on the decline, it is still the most played gravehate though.

You said that Shadows were useless, but you have Ghouls in the board, which do you play? I'm also really liking Needle right now, the only way they can really kill it is Decay, and they would most likely be tapping out to do so which means no Shaman or Scooze activations for at least a turn. For that reason I would say it's a tiny bit less effective against things that need no mana to activate, it is a rare situation though since most decks play only 3 artifact hate and 3 Decay.

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Originally Posted by HammafistRoob

You said that Shadows were useless, but you have Ghouls in the board, which do you play? I'm also really liking Needle right now, the only way they can really kill it is Decay, and they would most likely be tapping out to do so which means no Shaman or Scooze activations for at least a turn. For that reason I would say it's a tiny bit less effective against things that need no mana to activate, it is a rare situation though since most decks play only 3 artifact hate and 3 Decay.

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That was a typo. I'm playing Nether Shadow.

Yeah, and they usually board out Abrupt Decay (pretty useless against Dredge).

Well, it's probably better than Jace and Lili against us. I'm not sure of their boarding plan though.

Hi guys, first topic on this forum.

I play dredge since six months, nothing but a couple of tournaments.
Here's my list:

Creatures:23
4 Putrid Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Flayer of the Hatebound

Spells:23
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
1 Darkblast
3 Winds of Change
4 Bridge from Below
3 Dread Return

Lands:14
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Undiscovered Paradise

Sideboard:15
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Nature's Claim
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Wispmare
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Angel of Despair
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

My meta is really combo-ish, that's why I've decided to put the three Winds of Change in mb. It's really a great tech, it could ruin Ant and Tes's plans.
Instead of the angel of despair sb I could probably insert the new theros creature which exiles a permanent as it etb and ltb.

I was wondering also about 3 pithing needle for the sb. DRS is seen everywhere and it could be painful if played too early (not to mention tormod/relic/ooze...).

It's the right sb in your opinion, thinking at the combo-ish and u-based meta? The last tournament went 2-3, lost against goblins, canadian, ant and won against ur delver and maverick.

Thanks in advance and keep dredging

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Originally Posted by meffeo

Hi guys, first topic on this forum.

I play dredge since six months, nothing but a couple of tournaments.
Here's my list:

Creatures:23
4 Putrid Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Flayer of the Hatebound

Spells:23
4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
1 Darkblast
3 Winds of Change
4 Bridge from Below
3 Dread Return

Lands:14
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine
1 Tarnished Citadel
1 Undiscovered Paradise

Sideboard:15
3 Chain of Vapor
3 Nature's Claim
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Wispmare
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Angel of Despair
1 Blazing Archon
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

My meta is really combo-ish, that's why I've decided to put the three Winds of Change in mb. It's really a great tech, it could ruin Ant and Tes's plans.
Instead of the angel of despair sb I could probably insert the new theros creature which exiles a permanent as it etb and ltb.

I was wondering also about 3 pithing needle for the sb. DRS is seen everywhere and it could be painful if played too early (not to mention tormod/relic/ooze...).

It's the right sb in your opinion, thinking at the combo-ish and u-based meta? The last tournament went 2-3, lost against goblins, canadian, ant and won against ur delver and maverick.

Thanks in advance and keep dredging

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Ok, where do I begin, while you have a good LEDless list it has some flaws, no faithless looting is a error (even in LEDless), as it is a discard outlet and a draw spell ( and situational flashback), also darkblast is not a great card in a combo filled metagame (dredge 3 is pretty lackluster)

I would go -3 winds of change, - 1 darkblast for +4 faithless looting fo the main board

for the sideboard I would - 1 blazing archon, - 3 nature's claim and - 1 angel of despair for + 3 winds of change (combo matchups), + 1 ancient grudge and + 1 ashen rider

some firestorm and elesh norn are great against creature combo (elves and belcher using empty the warens)

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Originally Posted by Vlad Teppes

Ok, where do I begin, while you have a good LEDless list it has some flaws, no faithless looting is a error (even in LEDless), as it is a discard outlet and a draw spell ( and situational flashback), also darkblast is not a great card in a combo filled metagame (dredge 3 is pretty lackluster)

I would go -3 winds of change, - 1 darkblast for +4 faithless looting fo the main board

for the sideboard I would - 1 blazing archon, - 3 nature's claim and - 1 angel of despair for + 3 winds of change (combo matchups), + 1 ancient grudge and + 1 ashen rider

some firestorm and elesh norn are great against creature combo (elves and belcher using empty the warens)

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Actually I tried a list with +4 faithless looting, -3 winds, -1 darkblast and I was very disappointed. I've tried also a version with -1 dread return +1 griselbrand / +1 fkz but at the end I prefered the one with the Flayer because he could get over the combat phase.

Still no space for pithing needle?

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Originally Posted by meffeo

Actually I tried a list with +4 faithless looting, -3 winds, -1 darkblast and I was very disappointed. I've tried also a version with -1 dread return +1 griselbrand / +1 fkz but at the end I prefered the one with the Flayer because he could get over the combat phase.

Still no space for pithing needle?

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Playing dredge in a combo meta without LED is going to be disappointing to some degree.
building a good sideboard is a very difficult task, but if you want Phitting needle, try cutting some of the DR targets (except Iona), or some anti hate, but I doubt it will help against storm and show and tell ( you can lock sneak attack tough), also, faithless looting is better against DR shaman than those 3 dread returns that you use, having a different wincon is nice but you are sacrificing too many slots to do it when draw spells would kill your opponent much faster and make you better racing said combo decks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vlad Teppes

Playing dredge in a combo meta without LED is going to be disappointing to some degree.
building a good sideboard is a very difficult task, but if you want Phitting needle, try cutting some of the DR targets (except Iona), or some anti hate, but I doubt it will help against storm and show and tell ( you can lock sneak attack tough), also, faithless looting is better against DR shaman than those 3 dread returns that you use, having a different wincon is nice but you are sacrificing too many slots to do it when draw spells would kill your opponent much faster and make you better racing said combo decks

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Atm I can't afford the Leds, that's why I've decided to cut the lootings.

My decision to add another dredger (darkblast but it could be also a lftl) was drived by the willing to add more "endurance" to the deck, and the winds of change played in turn 2 could also let me dredge some cards, just as a looting, but with the addition of:
1- discombobulate opponent's hand
2- shuffle dead cards in my hand

Do you guys think that the looting are better than the winds? Flashbacking without led is almost impossible

hi, this is my current build:

1 Griselbrand
1 flame-Kin Zealot
2 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Dread Return
3 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting

4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

SIDE still testing.

In main i put two other buddy than most of players in this time. Flame Kin Zealot ;) old friend who gives us chance to Win in 1st Turn. Socond guy is Griselbrand - all games when i put him onto battlefield was on my side and simpely WIN. Any suggestions about this main?

About side: im thinking sth like this?:
3 Leyline of Sancity -countermagic
4 Leyline of the Void - mirror
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria -elves for example.
2 Elesh Norn
2 Ancient Grudge
3 firestorm

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Originally Posted by HardBrain

hi, this is my current build:

1 Griselbrand
1 flame-Kin Zealot
2 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Narcomoeba
4 Putrid Imp
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Dread Return
3 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting

4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 City of Brass
4 Gemstone Mine

SIDE still testing.

In main i put two other buddy than most of players in this time. Flame Kin Zealot ;) old friend who gives us chance to Win in 1st Turn. Socond guy is Griselbrand - all games when i put him onto battlefield was on my side and simpely WIN. Any suggestions about this main?

About side: im thinking sth like this?:
3 Leyline of Sancity -countermagic
4 Leyline of the Void - mirror
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria -elves for example.
2 Elesh Norn
2 Ancient Grudge
3 firestorm

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I recomend only one DR target and only 2 or even 1 Dread Return, I'm not really a fan of the card, but that's just me.

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Originally Posted by HardBrain

About side: im thinking sth like this?:
3 Leyline of Sancity -countermagic

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Sorry, but I do not understand this part of your post. Would you explain it further, please?

Leyline of sancity doesn't protect you against countermagic, it protects against disruption '-'

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Originally Posted by Vlad Teppes

Leyline of sancity doesn't protect you against countermagic, it protects against disruption '-'

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lololo sorrrrry obv mistake, not countermagic - i mean Combos :D sorry for that.

Ok so what you Think about return WinCon to Flamekin Zealot?
and anyone test 1 Griselbrand?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HardBrain

lololo sorrrrry obv mistake, not countermagic - i mean Combos :D sorry for that.

Ok so what you Think about return WinCon to Flamekin Zealot?
and anyone test 1 Griselbrand?

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I used 2 dread return and 1 griselbrand when I first got the deck, after my first tour I swaped griselbrand for 1 more rainbow land, then I cut one of the dread returns for more business spell, after a while I cut DR entirely.

Griselbrand is better than flamekin zealot IMO, it's an auto win vs some decks ( not to mention that flamekin can be nuked should your bridges be exiled), but if I would run a DR target main deck I would go for Flayer of the hatebound, its the better one there is now