[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

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Originally Posted by Fox

Restarting the stats again post-Probe/DRS ban. Four round event meta consists of UWRb miracles (one Sea, 2 SB Thoughtseize, 1 Notion Thief) x1, RUG Delver x2, Team America x1, BUG Thresh x1, Turbo Depths x1, UR Delver x1, Merfolk x1, DnT x2, EsperBlade shenanigans (Academy Ruins) x1, EsperBlade x1.

R1 vs miracles 0-2. Counterbalance oracle: UU win the game. I'm going to toss out all games against Counterbalance combo because UW can't beat that card without running it. A separate tally will be kept, but there's little point pretending any card not called CB competes.
R2 vs BUG Thresh: 2-0. Able to play around Stifle and Daze both games and hit enough white cards to 'duress' blue out of their hand while controlling the board; eventual win via unchallenged blue cards (Standstill/Teferi/Azcanta mix).
R3 vs Team America: 1-2. Same concept as previous game. Both mull game 1 but they get there. Win mull to 6 game 2. Lose mull to 6 game 3. Favorable matchup due to their lack of burn but too many mana-screw mulls; close games though.
R4 vs EsperBlade: 2-0: Game 1 they technically lose to Mentor, but Teferi/Azcanta/Standstill are all on board at same time. Game 2 opponent can't find Fetchlands and tap down 3 duals for TNN to which I respond with B2B; Mentor outraces and Portent target them puts game way out of reach. Their deck no longer has DRS and doesn't really put down credible threats until 3 mana; very easy to Standstill once and win off the back of the draw 3 if you ever StP the SFM. Opponent got a little ticked off game 1 because I didn't play for the Mentor win (which would have been quicker), but there really wasn't anywhere near enough pressure to abandon a completely safe win by default (outdraw them 4:1 each turn, not counting Standstills) while they were stuck on land topdecks, Batterskull bouncing/recast, and Lilly-otV.

Overall record 2-1. Counterbalance tally: 0-1. I've been happy with cutting down to 1x Fluster in the board. Will probably cut another card from board to get Blessed Alliance #2 (8-9 copies of TNN over last three rounds) and simultaneously achieve better positioning vs Burn and Goose.

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Can you share your list?

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Originally Posted by polski

Can you share your list?

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Pretty much same as before:

Lands (22)
Island x3
Plains x2
Tundra x2
Fetch (blue) x8
Wasteland x3
Factory x3
Karakas x1

Creatures (5)
SCM x3
Mentor x2

Spells (32)
Brainstorm x4
FoW x4
Portent x4
StP x4
Standstill x4
Terminus x3
Counterspell x3
Search for Azcanta x2
Teferi, Hero of Dominaria x2
Blessed Alliance x1
Noxious Revival x1
Council's Judgement x1

SB:
Surgical x2
Disenchant x2
C. Priest x2
Council's Judgement x1
Flusterstorm x1
Karn, Scion of Urza x1
E. Tutor x1
RiP x1
Powder Keg x1
B2B x1
Humility x1
Serenity x1

Karn is mostly a test card from the vintage version of this deck. He's fine in matches where I expect opponents to bring in REB, but Czech is gone and I've not yet seen any convincing evidence that an REB deck, which can overcome white cards, currently exists (that doesn't play Counterbalance). Counterspell isn't Mana Drain, and without it I think Karn loses the aspect of being generically good in a proactive sense and really only pays off as a reaction to the previous scenario for us in legacy. I'll keep testing him for a bit and make space for SB Blessed Alliance by dropping a Disenchant or Serenity; E-Tutor is just a little too good at finding the unfair deck killer for me to want to cut at this time. Another card I'm heavily considering at this time is Sacred Ground and Teferi's Response (my local meta skewed heavily towards DnT).

Everything in the maindeck has been working out well pre- and post-ban. Wasteland has been especially effective in fair matchups due to the Azcanta puzzle this deck poses. Azcanta just sits there in enchantment form and the opponent is eventually forced to activate Wasteland targeting Factory (or I just Waste their Waste); Tundra is usually good for killing a Wasteland earlier on as well - after that Azcanta just creates too much specific card advantage and finding Teferi just shuts them out with double activations...and then to be sure you Standstill on top of all this, and uh....they concede. Alternatively you flip Azcanta to vindicate an enemy Wasteland and drop a Factory + Standstill. The Mentors are there because they don't interfere with all this nonsense and Magus of Entreat the Monks randomly wins games for free. The deck has been very reliable when it comes to getting to these mana states consistently against diverse strategies, and even pre-ban I wasn't really having that much trouble hitting Teferi mana and hardcasting Terminus - if you miracle a single Terminus by the mid-game you're massively favored to go into a solved late-game where you're out-drawing them and they eventually have to face some of the highest quality wincons in the game. The single regrowth effect with Noxious has been working well before, but with DRS gone that perfect amount of recursion is very close to feeling like Vamp. Tutor.

Went undefeated tonight at my weekly (just 3 rounds) with the same list I last posted, haven't made alterations because it's been in my deckbox unplayed while I messed around with Turbo Depths for a while. Same win cons of 2 Mentor, 1 Jace, 1 Teferi, 3 Snap, 4 Factory despite Fox's suggestions :P

Matchups were Moon Stompy rd 1 and 2, Stoneblade rd 3. Basically got into position all 4 games with Red Stompy decks to just let Blood Moons resolve and win with Teferi activations. Mentor helps the aggro plan a lot when you can't wait forever. Deck is strong and fun. Drew 3 with Standstill 8? times, my favorite feeling ever.

Keep casting Standstill.

You running the same sideboard as me @ashent? Saw your maindeck list but didn't see anywhere you posted the board or how that's shifted with the bans.

3 fluster
2 surgical
2 blue blast
2 disenchant
2 rip
1 humility
2 containment priest
1 verdict

Hello, I just 3:1 in MKM trial in Prague with this list:


1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Myth Realized
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Plains
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Tundra
2 Wasteland
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ponder
1 Council's Judgment
3 Terminus

1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damping Sphere
1 Monastery Mentor
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Search for Azcanta
1 Humility
3 Flusterstorm
1 Hydroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Disenchant
1 Supreme Verdict


I defeated Lands, Eldrazi and White Stompy (Helm combo and Thalia + Lodgestone Golem). I lost only the first game with lands, but I feel I could have won.

The was pretty nice and Myth Realized was great and played around many cards. Humility was also a perfect SB card.

Can we get a little more elaboration on how Myth Realized "was great"? I'm honestly curious because the card always seemed to have potential in this deck from my perspective.

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Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa

Can we get a little more elaboration on how Myth Realized "was great"? I'm honestly curious because the card always seemed to have potential in this deck from my perspective.

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Personaly, the main thing is, that it is not a creature when it comes to the play. It sits down and waits - so you do not need to play around removal (except Abrupt Decay obviously). You just slam it and prepare for activation. If you think they have bolt or Punishing Fire, wait until it has 4 counters, if you think they have Swords then just wait till you have an answer. That is one of the main advantages. The second one is that it "combos" with the Standstill. You put it down the first turn, then Standstill and even if you do not play spells it grows. It can beat some big fellows like angler or goyf. It does not die to your (or opponen's) Terminus or other mass removal.

This is why I chose the card and it looks good so far.

Myth Realized is fantastic when he's good, but also clogs up the decklist.

I've had positive results both with and without him, so I don't know what's right yet.

The main thing I'm thinking right now is that Myth Realized is less initial investment than casting a Mentor, and works through Standstill, AND dodges sweepers, AND dodges a lot of removal (but not all) until you activate him. Unfortunately though he doesn't leave behind monks when you respond to anything like even an Abrupt Decay, for example. Myth Realized as an 8/8 getting targeted with a Fatal Push is totally fine, that's great, and you probably already sussed out the Push anyway so you didn't activate it until you had a counter, so in that way he's very strong, but sometimes he eats a Decay or a enchantment removal early or something and you don't even get a little monk left behind.

Currently I am playing without him but I know I'll try again off and on in coming months. I sort of think it depends on what kind of removal the format has a lot of. Our list already makes targeted removal viable, unlike a lot of other UW control lists, simply because of Factory. We aren't going completely creatureless to negate these cards, so trying to do that is a little insane.. but dodging sweepers with Myth + Factories is very strong.

More post ban stats:

Had an 0-2 in a 3 rounder about a week back, no info on meta outside of my opponents.
R1 vs ANT 1-2: remember them being able to go off through a T2 Standstill, no FoW. Game 2 they are getting pressured by Factory/CP (I cut Mentors for CP in this matchup simply for flash), have to Ad Naus from ~12 life, with response Surgical LED, they drop themselves to zero. Game 3 my mana colors are a little off, and one blue mana from double Counterspell against a Tutor line which began with a Defense Grid.
R2 vs Aluren 0-2: Game 1 sculpted a hand that allowed Sylvan Library to resolve and only lost to Aluren/double FoW/2 creature combo (or ability to assemble combo) and they had it; don't think I change how I play this hand, letting them have Library vs my Standstill and save countermagic for the Aluren. Game 2 was just miscounting tempo/attacks allowed while keeping Aluren from resolving.

Tonight went 3-0. There were around 25 people playing which is abnormally high for a Thursday. There was 4x DnT, 2x RUG Delver, 2x Pox (one LoamPox), EsperStill, Aluren, Sneak and Show, Grixis Delver, UWx Blade, UWr miracles, and a lot of unknowns.
R1 vs Grixis Delver (Bomat) 2-0. In both games Bomat puts on too little pressure and dies before being activated for value. Delvers and Gurmags are getting cast, but without any need to address Bomat, I have plenty of removal for them.
R2 vs LoamPox 2-0. Game 1 we both mull to 6, FoW tags the turn 2 Smallpox into Mentor and game ends. Game 3 opponent gets stuck on mana then run into a few copies of Counterspell as I build to 5 mana and Teferi takes over.
R3 vs DnT 2-1. All three games are mulls to 6 for me. Game 1 not enough time to stabilize with Terminus/Bstorm since I can't find white mana in time. Game 2 they keep 1 land Vial hand vs Disenchant/Wasteland. Game 3 I have plenty of white removal and keep Vial off the table, and game devolves into long drawn out big Thalia/Karakas recast it like 5 times against my white cards until Teferi eventually comes online and draws Mentor into the win.

post-ban record goes to 5-3 and 0-1 (vs CB). Haven't added the second Blessed Alliance to board yet but did cut Karn for a Canonist.

Spoiler from C18:

Soul Snare
W
Enchantment
W, Sacrifice Soul Snare: Exile target creature attacking you or a planeswalker you control.

Removal that gets under Standstill seems interesting.


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

@gibsonjunkie same mana issue as Myth Realized; either you open the game with Tundra (loss by Wasteland) or you accept that turn 3 is the first time you'd be able to play Counterspell. Directly competes with Myth Realized, and total cost of :w::w: which means it's competing with Path and Blessed Alliance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

Spoiler from C18:

Soul Snare
W
Enchantment
W, Sacrifice Soul Snare: Exile target creature attacking you or a planeswalker you control.

Removal that gets under Standstill seems interesting.


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Where did you see this? It's not on mtgsalvation, are you sure it's confirmed?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gibsonjunkie

Spoiler from C18:

Soul Snare
W
Enchantment
W, Sacrifice Soul Snare: Exile target creature attacking you or a planeswalker you control.

Removal that gets under Standstill seems interesting.


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

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Its not really a new card. Soul Snare.

But I am not sure if it has been play tested with Landstill or not. Honestly I don't think its good. Why would you preemptively play this then Standstill? Why not just Swords to Plowshare/Wrath the board before playing Standstill? And if you're worried about Man-Lands, isn't that what Wasteland is there for (or side out Standstill postboard)

Finally got around to playing more with the deck, 4 rounder.
-R1 vs DnT 1-0-1: Very long g1, opponent gets me down to 4 life before I stabilize with Terminus and a plan of killing Vials; once they have to start casting their threats into Standstills (2 equip on board doing nothing) it goes south for them. Game 2 went to time but opponent conceded, but there were some interesting plays like Flicker their Prelate to StP targeting Mentor, and next time they went to Flicker a Flicker I sent in C. Priest.
R2 vs Grixis Bomat Delver 2-1*: at 1-1 with a few min left opponent concedes; counting this one in the draw bracket. Bomat Courier is not good, I don't know why they play it both pre- and post-board...even when it hits the clock is too anemic to care about.
R3 vs RUG Delver 0-2: can't find the white cards game 1, and game 2 Winter Orb makes the game pretty funny but I lose patience and drop a Teferi and opponent has a Snare for RiP (Goyf). Interesting and fun games made possible by Stifle and Wastelands, the truest form of magic. :cool:
R4 vs miracles 0-2.

Record to 6-4-1 and 0-2 vs CB. Probably coming up on the end of testing, the deck can easily run 55-75% vs the field; but with CB legal and contaminating around 10% of overall matches, it's not really worth investing time into focusing on speed of play.

Jody Keith's UWr Landstill list from the Legacy Premier League is gas. Lots of fun.

He's in UW but not running Terminus and is instead slamming maindeck Supreme Verdict and EE into the midgame, supported by Swords, then still has the Humility there he was using before, but no Jace AOT anymore.

The only part of this build that I really don't like is the lack of Wastelands.

Hey dudes, I tested out Myth Realized for the first time yesterday at a local 5-rounder (20~ participants) and I managed to get a top 4 split.

This was my first tournament since the Top banning, so I was pretty rusty, the list needs some fine tuning, I slapped it together based on some things I wanted to try out (Myth, terminus, etc). Still, UW Landstill has been my pet deck since 2006-7~, and it felt good getting to jam it again.

Some general impressions:

I think I'm going to stick with Myth for a while, it was pretty solid against everything not named Flickerwisp. It's a nice change of pace having a more proactive threat that "combos" with your sweepers and helps generate Standstill advantage.

I am in love with the counter-magic package. It seemed to be just the right balance of early game interaction and late game protection. Recurring Pierce/Snare/CS with Snappy as needed is also great.

I think it needs a 4th maindeck sweeper, either Terminus #3 or Verdict #2, maybe EE or Humility instead. I'm not sure yet, and I'm not sure how to fit it in. Maybe Crucible can go, but it does save your bacon in a lot of cases.

The SB and SB planning needs work, that was cobbled together 5 minutes before the event. I do really like E. Tutor + Targets though. It can also grab SS or Myth in a pinch.

Lands (22)
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Island
2 Plains
1 Karakas
3 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland

Draw (11)
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder

Counter (10)
4 FoW
2 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare

Removal (8)
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Terminus
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgment

Utility/Win (9)
3 Myth Realized
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, TMS
1 Crucible of Worlds

Side (15)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Relic of Progentius
1 Rest in Peace
1 Containment Priest
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Energy Flux
1 Pithing Needle
1 Humility
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
1 Volcanic Island
1 Negate


R1: Loss 0-2 - D&T
G1 - I make two critical mistakes back to back (playing wrong land, returning wrong order on brainstorm) that resulted in me not being able to sweep his board w/Terminus on the critical turn and I die. Rough shaking off the rust.
G2 - I have a 7 card hand of one land and no removal, but it does have FoW and Pithing needle, I decide to mull, but my 6-cards are not as spicy, and he has the T1 Vial, Ports/wastes, I don't get to play magic.

R2: Win 2-0 - Budget Goblins
G1/G2: He makes some dudes, I kill them and draw a billion cards.

R3: Draw 1-1 - Grixis Control
G1: He opens with back to back Hymn, but I have back to back Spell Pierce for the counter. He gets some dudes, I'm able to reset w/Terminus after committing Myth and follow up by getting Standstill online. From here there is a ton of back and forth, but I am able to eek out card advantage from SS & Jace. I think eventually I'm able to get there with Snaps/Factory and Myth attacks after burning through all four Standstills.
G2: I manage an early advantage and make a Jace, but I make a mistake not +2ing him right away and a turn or two later he eats it to a bolt which let's him get back in the game. We get into turns and I get got by an EOT Bolt, Snapcaster Bolt, swing with weenies.

R4: Win 2-0 - D&T
G1: I FoW his first SFM and follow up with a Standstill. He breaks it and still manages an early army with 3~ SFMs. I get taken low but eventually sweep it all away and start going to town with a Myth with Standstill protection. He gets down a Flickerwisp which resets the Myth counters, but I have more kill spells and Standstills and Myth eventually gets back up to 5/5 range and ends it.
G2: I get into some early trouble, but I sided in E.E.'s, the Volc to get them to 3, Humility, and E. Tutor. EE shows up to wipe two dudes and an equipment. Then I'm able to Tutor for Humility which locks up the game. 2/2 Myth & Factories hold strong against 1/1s until Jace pops.

R5: Win 1-0-1 - BUG Delver
G1: He has the Turn 1 Delver backed by some Stifle disruption for my fetches, it blind flips and starts beating. I snag a Goyf with Snare, but he commits a G. Angler and I get brutalized down to 1 life. I manage to stabilize with a Terminus, then Myth & Standstill. He has Abrupt decay for my Myth in response to the Standstill and we play Draw-Go for 4-5 turns while I don't see any factories. I build up a hand of counter magic + Jace and some Snaps. I decide it's time to try and win proactively as I don't want to be in a position where he breaks Standstill at my EOT and has a ton of threats for me to try and answer. I brainstorm at his EOT, break the standstill, causing him to discard, I enter my turn with 9 cards in hand to his 7. I drop Myth + Jace with counter back-up. He has tons of removal for my Myths and Factories, but I also have answers for all of his threats and follow-on standstills that he gets forced to break. We get into a zero threat game with both of us at 1 life, I eventually land a Snappy to seal the deal. G1 took probably 40 minutes.
G2: He builds a quick board of double delver and nails another fetch with Stifle. I manage set up Terminus with a brainstorm and protect it with Spell Pierce to stabilize the game and follow it up with Standstill onto an empty board. We run out of time.

3-1-1 is good enough for 4th seed.

Semi-Finals: Win 2-0 - Mono-Black POX
G1: I keep a hand with 4 lands, Brainstorm, FoW, and Swords. He opens turn 1 Thoughtsieze, I Brainstorm in response... into 3 more lands. Naturally I put my two spells on top and cause TS to whiff on all lands. The 7 land opener ends up being critical against POX as he goes on the land destruction warpath. I'm able to stay in it with all my lands + Standstill. I get there with Factory and Myth beats.
G2: I am far more choked on lands, but I have Snare to stop a Sinkhole which lets me get Standstill online. After a few turns I get Jace online and protect it.

Quarters: Split

Hi all. I usually played mud, and still do. i also played rug threshold back in the day and can now again. Thats said, i also enjoy this deck archetype. I thought id post my list and see what more experienced players thought about some of my more non traditional additions. Here goes.

Deck: Legacy UBW Landstill.dec

Counts : 60 main / 15 sideboard

Creatures:3
3 Snapcaster Mage

Artifacts:8
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Chrome Mox
2 Mox Diamond
2 Crucible of Worlds

Sorceries:4
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Toxic Deluge

Instants:17
2 Counterspell
4 Daze
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Impulse
1 Intuition
4 Force of Will

Enchantments:3
3 Standstill

Others:3
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands:22
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Polluted Delta
2 Swamp
1 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:15
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Helm of Obedience
1 Celestial Purge
1 Disenchant
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Submerge
1 Seal of Cleansing
3 Leyline of the Void
1 The Abyss
1 Narset Transcendent

I believe that the intuition mb could also be another liliana the last hope with fewer abrupt decays in the meta, and could see another edict sb as well with all the sneak and show.

Hello,

I took my Landstill deck to GP Prague last weekend, only to play Legacy-sideevents. The sideevents were always 3 rounds, but at 2-0 you could ID with your opponent and you get both the same value. So I played 6 of the sideevents over the weekend and had the following results:
2-0-1 (id),
2-0-1,
2-0-1 (id),
2-0-1 (id),
2-1,
2-0-1 (id)
Leading to a total score of 12-1-1 (without counting the IDs. I even played two of them for fun and won both). The deck felt awesome, almost unbeatable. The only match I lost to Goblins was a game 2 in which I had Crucible resolved, Wasteland + Fetch available, cycled 3 Brainstorms over three rounds and didn't find an anwser for opponents Vial. He also missed landdrops and I could have wasted his lands, if he had no vial, so a Disenchant/Teferi/Judgement probably would have won the game, but it wasn't meant to be. Conceded with my last BS resolving and had 8 Lands, 1 Fow, 1 Daze and 1 Standstill in my hand and that all with Crucible in play. Game 3 I keept Tundra, Misty Rainforest, Swords to Plowshares, Disenchant, Supreme Verdict, Terminus and Councils Judgement on the play, dropped my Misty T1, he played a Lackey, I go to my turn, played Tundra, sworded the Lackey, he Wastelanded my Tundra, played a Vial and I don't manage to find a Land in 4 Turns, had to discard twice and wasn't able to handle the Aether Vial the entire game, being on the play with Disenchant in my hand.

I am not sure, if I would change anything on the list, it felt really good. Sometimes that many colorless sources are bad, sometimes they are great, so I don't know if cutting the 4th Factory for a 4th Island or going up to the 4th Wasteland is a good decision. MVPs on the tournament were:

1. Search for Azcanta: It was many times the best card in the deck. Filters draws, especially under Standstill, synergizes with Crucible and the Sunken Ruin wins many games alone. I asked myself a lot of times, in which way this card is balanced.
2. Teferi, Hero of Dominaria: Both the +1 and the -3 abilites are great, generating card advantage, tempo and being an answer to almost every permanent you don't like is just insane and that is also combined with a great finisher. Even the possibility to -3 himself every turn and not letting you die to drawing from an empty library was relevant in one game.
3. Vendilion Clique: This card makes improves exactly the matchups, where you are preboard behind. Having a good beater with flash and disrupting your opponent is something that is really important when facing ANT, Show and Tell decks and in every control-matchup.

So here is my list:

Lands (23)
3 Tundra
4 Mishras Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa

Creatures (3)
3 Snapcaster Mage

Instants (17)
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Counterspell
2 Daze
1 Flusterstorm

Sorcerys (7)
2 Ponder
2 Terminus
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Council's Judgement

Other (10)
4 Standstill
2 Search for Azcanta
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Disenchant
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Council's Judgement
1 Supreme Verdict

@Freundla

Thank you for sharing your experience and your list!

The search + crucible combo seems really strong.

Can you explain a little bit about your decision to run Daze? Any reasoning for playing that over Spell Pierce or Spell Snare?

Setting yourself back a turn on land drops seems a higher price in Landstill than with most decks, as you almost always want to hit 4+ lands on time.

My experiences with Daze have been very good for turn 2 "protected" Standstills in blue mirrors.

On the play against any blue deck a turn 2 Standstill with Daze backup is insanely strong. It also plays well into the fact that the more "free" spells you can get in the list, the better it is in midgame counter wars when they've broken a Standstill. It's always awkward to go up to 10 cards in hand, try to win the battle on the stack, use your mana efficiently, and try not to discard anything very good. Drawing Forces and Dazes off Standstill can answer all those concerns pretty cleanly.

That said, I usually play without it because it's hard to find slots for it in the deck and it's a pretty bad draw. Same as tempo decks in the midgame drawing air, but somewhat worse due to the role of the deck.

I think Daze is a completely legitimate card to run, but I think if you are going to do that, you should also run Delver.

Hello,

I totally agree with ashent, the first good reason are the control-mirrors, where having more manaless counters in a counterwar is just great and a "lost" landdrop is not that important. Also protecting a standstill on the stack with Daze is very good, because if the standstill then resolves, most of the times both players draw until someone misses landdrops. With daze you have one land back in your hand, what protects you from being the first player which misses landdrops in the long-term. The second good reason is, that the opponent gets punished for tapping out. Just the fact that you play Daze, makes a good opponent play around Daze, which is exactly what I want, because it will slow down the whole game and push it to the lategame, where my deck is better than the average creature/midrange deck. Spell Pierce and Spell Snare don't counter creatures as good as Daze does, which is really important and also cost one mana, which is additionally bad because of chalice. The third reason I play Daze is that it never gets bad, because I play Crucible + Wasteland main. I had several games where I managed to Daze something in Turn 10+, even Jace, Batterskull and Show and Tell because I wasted him the turns before. I am not sure, if I would play Daze without the Crucible, or having less than 3 Wastelands. Also if the opponent always plays around Daze, I just board them out Game 2 and 3.
@Hanni: I would never run Delver, we are not a beatdown deck. But also without Delver, Daze is a great card in my List.

I'm using Retrofitter Foundry in another deck (mono blue with 4 Delver of Secrets & 4 Standstill) and I find it very strong. I think it is much better than Myth Realized
I am using it in a package

3 Retrofitter Foundry
4 Standstill
1 Crucible of Worlds

4 Mutavault
2 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland

Retrofitter Foundry can create a token each turn or "upgrade" Mutavault to a 4/4 Construct .. with also Crucible of Worlds it becomes quite funny.

Is anyone trying it ?

Played in ABU Games Win-a-dual series today; there was something like 14-16 decks iirc. Structure was 4 rounds, cut to top8.

Round 1 vs Merfolk (Cosi's Trickster, Reegerie, and 2x Standstill build) win 2-0. Game 1 Terminus 2x Silvergills, Plow 2x Lords, Waste a Mutavault, and TNN loses race to Mentor. Game 2 open up Wasteland on Cavern; slow game where opponent ends up with Trickster and Silvergill looking at Mentor (plus like 2 monks) and Humility - Azcanta took game over, scoop to Teferi.

Round 2 vs UWr Miracles, win 2-0. Both games opponent can't respond to multiple Standstill with Counterbalance, gg.

Round 3 vs UW Miracles, draw 1-1-1. Game 1 they get a CB. Game 2 CB dies to Disenchant, Surgicals ban JTMS, SCM, and Brainstorm; opponent won't ever have enough cards to resolve their last CB (should they have found it), scooping to Azcanta into eventual Teferi. Game 3 Counterbalance killed on the stack, banned from game with Surgical - the rest of their deck no longer matters, but we go to time.*

Round 4 vs LED Dredge, ID into top 8. We still played for fun, ended up going 2-0. Game 1 was a pretty funny cripple fight.

Top 8 vs UWr Miracles (different one), loss 2-1. Game 1 they get Counterbalance. Game 2 Counterbalance banned from game with Surgical, also tagged SCM and JTMS with Surgical. Game 3 they get Counterbalance.

Not sure why CancerBalance is still legal...anyways other decks in the room included Infect, Shadow (felt bad since room was overrun by team Tundra, so he was de facto out of top 8 contention when event started), at least one Sneak and Show, and I think a B/R reanimonster maybe. There were others but can't remember.

So same lesson as the last time I played this deck: JTMS <<< Teferi and UW Standstill is an easy contender for deep tournament runs...as long as you dodge CB [or CB gets banned]. :cool:

*legacy first, this opponent "can't make sense of my lands" and basically asks me to make mixed piles on a board where I have Wasteland, Azcanta, Karakas, 2 diff Fetches, some basic Islands, basic Plains, a Tundra, and a Factory....yeah uh, never been asked to actively hide/misconstrue information.

Fox could you share your list?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ventouza6969

Fox could you share your list?

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Same list near top of page 265. Only change was SB Karn to Ethersworn Canonist.

Fox
with 2 disenchant 1 council in the board whats for serenity?
ratchet bomb isnt be better from the power ked?
are you still playing noxius reveval?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ventouza6969

Fox
with 2 disenchant 1 council in the board whats for serenity?
ratchet bomb isnt be better from the power ked?
are you still playing noxius reveval?

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1)CJ is mostly there for control matches to kill PWs, or at least white-Hymn 2 blue cards (FoW) out of opponents hand. CJ has the added benefit of dealing with random problems (TNN, Teeg, untapped Mother of Runes, etc), and sometimes you want another copy. There's something of a trend in legacy where if FoW is bad post-board, then Disenchant'y effects are good to swap in on a 1-for-1 basis. Having 2x Disenchant/1x CJ is probably good enough, but I'm playing the 1x E-Tutor in the board anyways so why not throw the tutor'able Serenity (can play it off SnT, can't be Fluster'd, randomly dismantles stuff like artifact lands/Grim Monolith strats). The important thing is that I use E-Tutor as a way to increase the virtual size of the sideboard, which is probably among the more effective things you can do in UW since you won't have Pyroblast or discard-colored mana.

2)Powder Keg kills manlands/artifact lands, and it doesn't kill my own enchantments. I also don't like tapping down Ratchet Bomb to add a counter, just to have it removed/bounced; I prefer always having the activation up while forcing opponent's to make a move first against the trigger.

3) Yes I still play 1x maindeck Revival, it functions rather similarly to Vampiric Tutor the longer a game goes on, and allows SCM to rebuy any card type (particularly Teferi and Azcanta, which take over games).

I'm slowly putting this deck together, the only cards i'm missing are 2x force of will and 1-2x tundra. I've been tinkering with an enlightened tutor package, which seems strong for a control deck like this.

Starting point:

3x myth realized
4x standstill
2x search for azcanta
1x detention sphere
1x engineered explosives
1x crucible of worlds
1x soul snare
2x enlightened tutor

4x swords to plowshares
4x brainstorm
2x spell pierce
2x spell snare
2x force of will
2x counterspell
3x supreme verdict
2x jace, the mind sculptor


4x flooded strand
2x polluted delta
2x arid mesa
2x hallowed fountain
1x irrigated farmland
4x island
2x plains
4x mishra's factory
2x wasteland
1x karakas

Sideboard
1x rest in peace
1x ethersworn canonist
1x pithing needle
1x grafdigger's cage
4x misdirection
2x disenchant
2x sower of temptation
3x open

I have played your list Fox enough games now and i have a few notices. Mentor does a huge difference than normal standstill lists without any copy of mentor. Many times i would like to have into my hand some cheep counter such as snare or pierce. And i think 4 portent is too many it might be better some ponders instead of portent. What do you think?

Sounds like money is going to be a bit of an issue for your deck @Mr.Safety, but it might help to put these in improvement batches.
1- Arid Mesa out, all secondary Fetches able to grab blue (8th or 9th Fetch is soonest we should see 1x Mesa)
2- 24 lands + 2x Azcanta is a little higher than it has to be, -1 Irrigated Farmland and -1 Factory. [+2 slots]
3- E-Tutors and Soul Snare main -> Snapcaster x3
4- Surgical x2 SB
5- Crucible to SB [+1 slot]
6- 3x Verdict and 2x Plains means you're probably never beating DnT (Thalia + single Port is going to make this difficult) -> Terminus x3
7- 2x Sower out, move in ~1x E-Tutor to SB. Cut 2x Misdirection for E-Tutor targets.
8- 2x Council's Judgement, 1x to main, other SB [+2 MD slots remain]
9- the expensive one: Tundra x2 and FoW x2

I don't really like Myth Realized vs Mentor; it's not that productive to go turn 1 white card in a Counterspell deck given Wasteland is a card. Main decision fork will be Terminus vs Verdict, if Terminus then try to fit in Portent (this is where the extra slot of 2x Mentor vs 3x Myth is another big difference). The Tundra issue is going to cost win %, but not having SCM will likely cost more wins than that. Look back a page @fapsik and @RogueMTG's Myth lists for other ideas. Another good source is Luke T's lists from MtG top8 site: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20501&d=334675&f=LE. An all-Verdict build isn't necessarily bad, but it is a minority approach.

@ventouza6969 those changes all sound perfectly reasonable. Snare sounds like a generally better choice than Pierce, unless you're not expecting a ton of Counterbalance and Hymn. Portent was chosen to set up Terminus on their turn and for synergy with Teferi -3 -> shuffle it off (or re-bury another 3 down after 2 turns). Ponder/Portent comes down to personal preference. One last note about Pierce; I personally prefer not to play land-go (assumes Standstill in play) and then draw into soft permission that is likely already dead on arrival.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

Sounds like money is going to be a bit of an issue for your deck @Mr.Safety, but it might help to put these in improvement batches.
1- Arid Mesa out, all secondary Fetches able to grab blue (8th or 9th Fetch is soonest we should see 1x Mesa)
2- 24 lands + 2x Azcanta is a little higher than it has to be, -1 Irrigated Farmland and -1 Factory. [+2 slots]
3- E-Tutors and Soul Snare main -> Snapcaster x3
4- Surgical x2 SB
5- Crucible to SB [+1 slot]
6- 3x Verdict and 2x Plains means you're probably never beating DnT (Thalia + single Port is going to make this difficult) -> Terminus x3
7- 2x Sower out, move in ~1x E-Tutor to SB. Cut 2x Misdirection for E-Tutor targets.
8- 2x Council's Judgement, 1x to main, other SB [+2 MD slots remain]
9- the expensive one: Tundra x2 and FoW x2

I don't really like Myth Realized vs Mentor; it's not that productive to go turn 1 white card in a Counterspell deck given Wasteland is a card. Main decision fork will be Terminus vs Verdict, if Terminus then try to fit in Portent (this is where the extra slot of 2x Mentor vs 3x Myth is another big difference). The Tundra issue is going to cost win %, but not having SCM will likely cost more wins than that. Look back a page @fapsik and @RogueMTG's Myth lists for other ideas. Another good source is Luke T's lists from MtG top8 site: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=20501&d=334675&f=LE. An all-Verdict build isn't necessarily bad, but it is a minority approach.

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Thanks for the feedback, really appreciate it. My reason for 24 lands was to ensure I could reliably hit WW for Verdict and UU for counterspell/Jace. Budget isn't really the issue, it's availability. I strongly believe in supporting my LGS, so my MTG cash budget is in store credit at the LGS. I have $400+ in store credit, so Tundra is in my near future if they can get hold of one. Force of Will and the 2nd Tundra I am actively trading for with other legacy folks locally. Once the stars align, I'll get there.

1) I wasn't sure about the land mix, I can definitely get the blue fetch count higher. I can get Scalding Tarn into the deck easily enough. Follow-up question: how many fetches? I was thinking 8, but I can definitely go up to 9-10 (#10 would be Arid Mesa.)

2) I could possibly cut 1 land, I just wasn't seeing Factory/Wasteland/Azcanta as lands. I've played a lot of Pox and that always plays a ton of lands (24-27) with the realization that 6 in my list aren't colored mana sources. That leaves me with 18, which is probably ok given Standstill/Brainstorm/Search for Azcanta, but I am still uncomfortable with it. I'm not familiar with Landstill enough to know the land mix aside from just copying lists. Follow-up question: is Maze of Ith a consideration? It seems very good (not as a land, but as a 'spell'.)

3) E-Tutor I think I'm committed to trying for now. I can definitely see it as a sideboard tech, so I'll do that for now. I have the 3 Snapcasters so I can jam those in right away.

4) With Snapcaster, Surgical sideboard seems perfectly logical. I'll still have the E-Tutor board with RiP, etc.

5) Crucible sideboard is ok, but if I play it in the side I would likely drop the Wastelands. I like it maindeck, and with it only taking up 1 slot I think I'll keep it there. Again, I am not optimized until I get the forces/tundras.

6) I see what you mean about Port/D&T. I don't want to go the terminus route, because I don't want to jam Portent/Ponder. Given Verdict only, what do you suggest for white mana sources?

7) Totally understand the Sower out, ETutor board swap. Sower was for Sneak/Show, which I see often at the local.

8) Judgment I was foregoing for Detention Sphere, again because of the Etutor package. I'll work on getting those as well.

9) Understood!!!

The Myth lists are the ones putting up numbers, so I'm not sure where you are going with Mentor vs. Myth. If you are on Mentor and Terminus, isn't it better to just switch over to Miracles?

Play Academy Ruins and Tolaria West.

So:

-1 Wasteland
-1 Island

+1 Academy Ruins
+1 Tolaria West

Is that what you're thinking? I'd be really tempted to play Maze of Ith with Tolaria West...

I would even consider to increase the number of "lands" to 25 because Tolaria isn't really a mana source but a Demonic Tutor 4 landz n' stuff. I also suggest to defy the temptation of going too cute with stuff like Maze of Ith tbh. The manabase of Landstill is already fragile enough due to the obligatory manlands so cutting even more basics doesn't seem good to me either.

@Mr. Safety if you're dead-set on running Verdicts you probably need 4 basic Plains (given how bad that feels, maybe hide 1x in SB), if you want to have a shot at beating DnT. Even with enough plains to get WW in a main phase, I think you're still dead by the time you get 6 mana, which is what DnT will make Verdict cost. This is one of the bigger questions going forward; whether or not you want to even try to have a winnable DnT matchup. Playing that many Plains will eventually cost you win % against the rest of the field, and you'd also have to drop Wasteland as a tool.

As far as Fetchland numbers go, I think 8 is plenty but 9 with a Mesa is about equivalent.

Maze of Ith isn't a card I would play. If I wanted a utility land that wasn't Wasteland/Factory/Karakas, the next card at the top of the list is Desert by a large margin. As highly as I rank Desert, another Wasteland is still degrees of magnitude better.

To answer why play Standstill w/ Mentor/Terminus over miracles is subjective. I find that:
-miracles is a Counterbalance combo deck, not hard control
-playing with and against Counterbalance makes worse magic players
-miracles is boring, unchallenging, and at best a tier 2 strategy without Counterbalance
-there is little more pointless than playing games where both players have effects like Locus lands or AK. While games like those are 'stupid,' Standstill mirrors provide some of the highest caliber games with sharp board states

Objectively:
-Standstill is currently the best possible Teferi-specialized shell. [the hypothesis: this shell makes it a better choice than JTMS. ex: play Teferi, untap 2, Cspell their thing, and you probably just won]
-Azcanta is way better when you have the tools to snipe their Azcanta and distract/kill enemy Wastelands
-These former 2 points are multiplicative. With both in play you draw 4 [with substantial selection] per each 1 card opponents draw (remember Teferi untaps Azcanta). By itself Azcanta builds to this endgame with exceptional speed. This endgame is hardly necessary to win a game, it just so happens that this is what all the stabilizing elements (SCM/white spells) and the Standstill plan work towards without going out of their way.
-Mentor takes up 2 slots and works seamlessly with above 3 points because it's a poorly designed card.

So to me miracles doesn't really have a point other than surviving long enough to scum wins off Counterbalance. It plays slower than 'jammy jam' strategies, but it's pretty much the same no-strategy animal. I don't find decks without a unifying plan to be particularly fun or challenging as they do not present nor solve puzzles.

P.S. I would get plenty of reps in with a tuned list before using T. West and Academy Ruins. That's a RUG Lands thing last I checked, and I know of no convincing evidence that this is an effective way to win a game of legacy.

Yesterday i played a couple of games. I like your list Fox is very enjoyable. I have made one change only -1 teferi +1 jace because i think at least one jace is a necessary evil and off course if there is any situation having in hand 2 copies of teferi i would rather choose whitch one is better to play in the current situation. But i have an interesting plays with noxious revival when my opponent cracked my standstill one the three cards was the noxious so eot i casted noxious to put into my library the standstill and in my turn i casted again...it was the game. And in the second match i set up a terminus from the grave to the top of my library with noxious...it was fantastic!
I think that noxious need more explore than it seems. It is not replace itself, it is green and we need to have at least 3 life to cast it but it provides a unique help into this deck

I ended up with this list for now, testing shall commence:

Creatures - 2

2x Snapcaster Mage

Enchantments/Artifacts - 12

4x Standstill
2x Search for Azcanta
2x Myth Realized
1x Detention Sphere
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
1x Crucible of Worlds

Instants - 19

4x Brainstorm
4x Swords to Plowshares
3x Spell Pierce
2x Spell Snare
2x Counterspell
2x Force of Will
2x Enlightened Tutor

Sorceries - 2

2x Supreme Verdict

Planeswalkers - 2

2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands - 24
4x Flooded Strand
2x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Arid Mesa
2x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
2x Plains
3x Mishra's Factory
2x Wasteland
1x Tolaria West
1x Karakas

Sideboard
2x Disenchant
2x Blessed Alliance
2x Dispel
3x Misdirection
1x Rest in Peace
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Control Magic (this is America, I do what I want)
2x Surgical Extraction

Imo this list is worse than the previous. The previous one was at least focused around Standstill by breaking its symmetry with sufficient number of Mishras and Myths. Now you threw Snapcasters into the pile which is hardly understandable because Snapcaster is a different engine than Standstill. There is only necessity and space for one engine. Tolaria West doesn't make much sense without Ruins either. The idea is to get inevitability through the combination of Tolaria, Crucible, EE, Ruins and Wasteland.

I like your reasoning for Control Magic though.