Liked the text. but your belcher opponent was not very good. Smart ones would have left 1-2 creatures up, just in case.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
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Liked the text. but your belcher opponent was not very good. Smart ones would have left 1-2 creatures up, just in case.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Do you keep this hand?
Mountain
Mountain
Wasteland
Piledriver
Winstigator
Winstigator
Gempalm
On the play? On the Draw?
I say no to both. I would mull this on the play or draw. It doesn't have a 1-drop for speed. It doesn't have any functional removal for board control. It doesn't have Seige-Gang, Ringleader, or Matron for cards advantage. The best case scenario for this hand is cheating in a Winstigator and Piledriver turn 3, Wastlanding a land, and Gempalming a creature that for some reason didn't block. In other words it's a slow hand that also burns out quickly.
I will mulligan this in a heartbeat. Like what you said, it doesn't pressure the opponent enough. Durdling and doing nothing T1 and playing a instigator T2 doesn't cut it for us. By the time you swing on T3, they would have at least 2 turns to find an answer to a 1/1 creature. Against maverick, this means STP, mother of runes, or any of the x/2s. Against RUG, this is a flipped delver, or a lightning bolt. Against combo you're already dead. Sure you have a gempalm, which is the only mitigating factor amidst utter gibberish. Even if you connect with instigator, you don't have ringleader/SGC to cheat in which puts you in a great position.
Thinking about how this hand interacts with the opponent is still the main deciding factor on why its a bad hand.
Keep. On the play this is awesome against a lot of decks. Mom is not really an answer to this. You attack T3 with Instigator. Even if they have Mom+ another guy (probably 1/1 or 2/2), they'll have to tap Mom to save one of his dudes, then Gempalm comes in to kill Mom, and you officially traded Instigator with Mom, a trade that I'm really comfortable with.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
The best case scenario, unlike you said, is too Wasteland something T1, and find a Vial/Lackey on your top 2 cards.
Against combo it is not all that bad. Sure, a hand with Lackey is the best thing, but this is the 2nd best you can hope for. Even on the play, you'd have drawn 4 new cards (1 off gempalm), to find a Matron/Ringleader/Chieftain/Siege-Gang, Kiki-Jiki... Those are not small odds.
Against Canadian, I'd keep a 3 land hand, specially with 2 Mountains. The best they can do against us is Delver T1, and that fucks any plan from our side, except Vial/Lackey T1 on the play. AND you have Waste, that could make cripple his manabase, and you're still left with enough Mana to cast ALL your spells.
TLDR: I usually keep hands without "gas", because Goblins topdeck better than most decks in the format, and don't have to always win on T3-4 like some people think.
Edit: Without Instigators, I'd surely ship those hands. If they were Mogg Warmarchalls, then I don't know... probably would keep aswell, but they'd be way worse against any combo, while imo better against Canadian, and slightly worse against Maverick.
I would keep it as well. The long-time conventional wisdom for goblins is that you mull any hand that doesn't allow you to play a turn one Lackey or Vial. However, I think you can keep some hands with Winstigator and a way to clear a path for him. Scatman provided some great explanations as to why. That's another compelling reason to run Winstigator, btw--you can take fewer mulligans.
So went to a GPT yesterday, the tournament had ~45 players. I went 4-2, missing top 8 by finishing 10th.
Matchups were; ANT W 2-0, UW Delver L 1-2, Hexproof 2-0, Pox 2-0, UG Infect with Blazing Shoal 1-2, Faerie Stompy 2-0.
Won 10 games and lost 4, which is not bad at all.
The UW Delver matchup was really rough, I think I lost this one because I played Lightning Bolt instead of Tarfire and as a result, I think I will play Tarfire instead for future events. The Infect match was extremely random, I won with Lackey --> SGC --> Chieftain game 1 and had only seen Peer through Depths, Muddle the Mixture, an Island, a Forest and a Tropical Island so I had no idea what he was playing. I figured it was some kind of weird combo deck and proceeded to board out my Bolts for REB and as a result lost game 2 due to a Blazing Shoaled Glistener Elf. For G3 I loaded up on removal and got a keepable hand with REB, REB, Bolt, Vial, Wasteland, Mountain, Cavern. I then proceeded not to hit a Goblin for the upcoming 5 turns and as a result died to 3 Glistener Elfs that beat me down. Eventually I had to Bolt 1 to buy some time, but he had the Blazing Shoal and I lost. This matchup is supposed to be really good, but a combination of bad luck and unfamiliarity with the deck cost me the tournament. The ANT player made a terrible mistake game 1 and then my hate beat him game 2. The other matches were bad decks and I managed to take them down.
In the end I wasn't too happy with how the deck performed for me this day. I really felt like I had to mulligan a lot. The Ringleader flips were also very underwhelming so I will swap Bolt for Tarfire. The finish was quite poor but on the other hand, I was extremely close to making T8 and the matches I lost felt like they were winnable with a bit more luck/skill/whatever.
Jrw: I would keep that hand for sure, looks pretty strong to me. Ideal mix of lands and spells, ideal manasources and a decent curve. It would have been nice to get a Ringleader, SGC or Matron but with the Gempalm and the topdecks it's fairly likely that it will come. Also, don't underestimate the fear that WInstigator gives your opponent.
Hey guys,
I just returned from a tourney. Finished 3rd with 6-1-0 losing only to the winner of the tourney.
Here's my decklist, MUs and conclusions - detailed report will follow tommorow, maybe:
DECKLIST
//MANA[21]
4 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
10 Mountains
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
//CORE[26]
...
//OTHERS[13]
3 Gempalm Incineator
3 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Stingscourger
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Mogg War Marshal
//SIDEBOARD
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Anarchy
3 Sulfuric Vortey
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
MATCHUPS:
R1: Bant (2-1)
R2: BUG Aggro (2-0)
R3: BUG Control (2-1)
R4: Stoneblade feat. Miracles (1-0)
R5: RUG Thresh (0-2)
R6: Esperblade (2-1)
R7: RUG Thresh (2-1)
CONCLUSIONS:
* I'm absolutely sure about 58 cards in my MD. The slots which I might ponder about is (1) wether the 2nd Port is necessary and (2) if Pyrokinesis is better that Stingscourger#3. Maybe I could get some feedback on this topic?
* I'm very confident about 14 card s of my sideboard. I didn't like Scrapper the last tourneys, so I might cut him. But then I don't see any other, better option. I can say for sure that he absolutely sucks in dealing with equipments.
* This list is totally strong. I won numerous times through online Jittes (a condition of which most players thought Goblins could just scoop) without ever seeing a Tuktuk.
* Cavern of Souls is a beast.
* Combat-math wins games.
* Sulfuric Vortex and Anarchy, guys...test them, enjoy them, learn to love them.
A few questions GoboLord:
Lightning Bolt vs Tarfire: why running bolt over Tarfire? Dont you feel that sometimes tarfire can be more useful than bolt?
Why no Instigator and/or Chieftain? I personaly love that guys, and I run 3 copies of each one in my mb. I would ask if you feel that they could be useful in your decklist.
Lightning Bolt vs. Tarfire: The +1dmg from Bolt is important for the following reasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by PedroFilipe92
* Bolt can burn Tarmogoyfs, Tarfire can't
* with Bolt you can uninstall 4/4 creatures like "Batter-Germ" or (Entreat-the-)Angel-Tokens more easily. Either with attacking with a 1/1 Goblin into them or alongside with Sharpshooter - throwing a BOlt at them in each case will kill them. Tarfire doesnt do that
* Tafire pumps Goyfs. Right now I tend to take much from opponents attacks instead of chumpblocking to be able to counter-race my opponents. +1 dmg from a pumped Tarmogoyfs makes the difference. Plus, raceing is slightrly easier with Bolt than with Tarfire.
* I never felt the need to Matron a Tarfire - I usually go for Stingscourger or Gempalmi Incinerator since they are both uncounterable removals-
About Chieftain and Winstigator: I'd like to pass the question back at you: Which cards would you cut from my list to integrate Winstigator and Chieftain? I think that Mogg War MArshal is better as a cc2 spell than WInstigator (I already do enough cheating with Vial, Lackey and Caverns). Warmarshal ahs awsome defensive and offensive abilities (chumpblocking like a pro, upgrading Gemaplm Incinerator and makeing himself and Piledriver a 2-cards-combo).
I did think about Chieftain (and Goblin King), but I just jave no roome for them in my MD. I don't want to play less than 9 removal spells (actually I want to achieve Mantis' state of having 11). The Other cards are pretty much set for me too. HE doesn't look to attractive a a sideboard card either...so no love for Chieftain here.
@Gobbo:
How was 11 red sources for Bolt/Gempalm/Sulfuric/Anarchy?
@Mantis: You did 10-4 in games, and thought it was a bad result? That seems quite good if you ask me.
@GobboLord: Very impressive, which tournament did you attend? In The Netherlands or Germany? Your result and Scatmans do give me some hope although both of you play a wildly different list than I do.
It's mostly disappointment speaking I think. I haven't played a tournament in a long time and really wanted to reach T8. If you think about it, its quite alright. With 10-4 you can also be 5-0 in matches, the distribution was just unfortunate in my case. Next time I will get them :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
I actually took notes on exactly that issue. Well not having enough R sources was an issue in 2 games, but I could compensate for it quite easily.Quote:
Originally Posted by ScatmanX
Anarchy and SUlfuric Vortex are usally play very late in game (when you can be quite sure not to catch a force of will), so you have enough mana when you need it.
@ Mantis:
I've been on the monthly legacy tournament in Iserlohn, Germany. Iserlohn is a highly competitive field with many very good players, all of them somehow know each other and have somehow access to virtually every deck they want to play because everyone is lending cards to everyone. So: playing with friends - but very competitive.
@GoboLord: could you post the remaining cards from your "flex" slots? I guess there are some MWM, but then I'd wonder why no Sharpshooter MD?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
What would you add in terms of removal Incinerator, Fanatic???
I was thinking about a goblin Toolbox for matron and stuff, just playing less important only once to tutor it up to have answers for anything-similar to Maverick (like Tarfire, TSH or Mogg Fanatic).
Has anyone tested TSH in a mono-red build with Cavern?
Yeah, the missing 3 cards were indeed 3 MWMs.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBopper
No Sharpshooter in MD because he is too much a situational card. I only want him against GW Maverick (and not those lists with Punishing Fire) and Esperblade's Spirit Tokens.
I have Pyrokinesis in "Sharpshooter's slot" cause it makes pushing through Goyf and Batterskull easier and which is also an immediate answer to SFM (which we really need).
I really love Goblin-shaped removal now that I have Caverns in my MD. This card makes it even harder for our opponents to counter our removal-spells. I mean most player really HATE Gempalm Incinerator for his TRIGGERED ABILITY. Yesterday I could cheat Stingscourger into play with Caverns when Gempalm was too risky (having my Goblin-count reduced in response and not being able to kill the target) or too expensive (Warchief in play).
So, if I would add more removal (to reach Mantis' 11 spotremoval) I'd add another Stingscourger and 1 or 2 Mogg Fanatic, although I'm not sure about the latter - I haven't played them for a while now. My biggest problem with my removal-set is that there is just no good goblin-shaped replacement for Lightning Bolt. I need a Goblin-creature for 1 mana that reliably destroys x/2 or x/3 creatures. I've been searching my binder up and down, but I can't find any. Can someone please come up with a cool idea? Mogg Fanatic comes closest to what I'm searching for, but 1 dmg isn't enough. Stingscourger is reliable, but costs to much and is usually a sorcery.
As I'm having holidays, I have a lot of time for thinking and testing. In the end, I haven't been too pleased about Stingscourger as he just doesn't solve SFM well enough for my liking. So I think it's time to try something different, bear with me.
Currently there are 4 real decks to beat if you ask me: Sneak and Show, RUG, Maverick and StoneBlade/EsperBlade. I feel like Goblins is extremely good at beating random decks so if you have a decent matchup against the afformentioned decks, you will be in good shape. It occured to me that Warren Weirding is good against all of them. Weirding deals with SFM, Goyf, Mongoose, Ooze and Knight, although you need ample removal to deal with Mav's other critters. The takeback is that it can't be cast off Cavern and is thus hard to incorporate and still makes you soft to counters, especially Spell Snare and Spell Pierce. When you are already splashing, it seems easy enough to take BigBopper's suggestion and roll with TSH, as he's a lot faster than Scrappy. With TSH and Weirding the deck harnesses more power, but the manabase has to be severely weakened. With the printing of Cavern of Souls, we automatically became more vulnerable to Wasteland but Stifle and PoP are obviously new concerns. To address Stifle, I personally like Auntie's Hovel, although some fetches are probably still needed. Here is what I ended up with:
// 23 Lands
3 [5E] Mountain (4)
4 [JGC] Wasteland
4 [AVR] Cavern of Souls
4 [U] Badlands
3 [LRW] Auntie's Hovel
4 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
1 [R] Taiga
// Creatures
4 [V09] Goblin Lackey
4 [ZEN] Warren Instigator
4 [M12] Goblin Chieftain
4 [US] Goblin Matron
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
3 [10E] Siege-Gang Commander
1 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
1 [PLC] Stingscourger
1 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
// Spells
4 [V10] AEther Vial
4 [LRW] Tarfire
3 [MOR] Warren Weirding
Onwards to the sideboard. We already discussed Earwig Squad and it's place in the current or future metagame so I won't go over that again, but it's a nice addition as well. I think he's vying for a maindeck spot with TSH and depending on how the metagame develops he can be switched around. Sneak and Show is more of a concern to me than ANT currently, so I focused my board largely around beating them. Thoughtseize is a nice catch-all, it's not particularly devastating in any matchup but can be swapped for removal in any creatureless matchup. It's a pretty good card against Dredge as well. Needle is another nice catch-all, it's very good against Sneak and can also serve us well against Top. Pyrokinesis is there to swap with TSH in creature matchups.
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [U] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [MOR] Earwig Squad
SB: 4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
SB: 1 [AT] Pyrokinesis
SB: 1 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
SB: 4 [M10] Pithing Needle
My boarding strats look something like this:
Sneak and Show: -4 Tarfire, -3 Ringleader, -1 Gempalm Incinerator, -1 TSH, -4 Vial
+4 Pithing Needle, +4 Thoughtseize, +4 REB, +1 Earwig Squad
You could side out a land on the draw though.
Maverick: -1 Chieftain, -1 Stingscourger; +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 TSH
On the draw: -1 Cavern of Souls; -1 Chieftain, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Tin Street Hooligan
RUG: -1 TSH; +1 REB
Blade (depends on the version a bit): -1 Stingscourger; +1 TSH
UW Miracle: -4 Tarfire, -3 Weirding, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Gempalm
+1 Earwig Squad, +4 REB, +4 Needle (I love my boarding strat SB for this matchup so much)
ANT/TES: -4 Tarfire, -3 Weirding, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Gempalm
+4 REB, +4 Thoughtseize, +1 Earwig Squad
Dredge: -2 Weirding, -3 Ringleader, -1 Chieftain, -1 TSH, -1 Cavern of Souls, -1 Aether Vial
+4 REB, +4 Thoughtseize, +1 Pyrokinesis
It's a pretty poor sideboard strategy, but one can always hope. The key is to get SGC into play and not gaining an advantage through Ringleader. I'm not sure how good Vial is in this matchup, I expect them to board in Needles/Claim/Grudge in anticipation of your GY hate and it seems pretty slow. On the other hand, it gives you room to spend your mana on hate and Wastelands instead. Anyone care to chime in with their experiences?
Looks like M13 will give us a goblin legend.
Seems legit...
http://io9.com/5915373/stunning-magi...ium=socialflow
Possible art for him:Quote:
This year, Wizards is introducing five new characters to Magic, each one based on a basic fantasy archetype. There's Talrand, a merfolk who controls flying drakes; Nefarox, an angry demon; Krenko, a goblin who runs a gang of street-thugs; Odric, a holy warrior who fights against the undead; and Yeva, an elf with a strong bond with nature.
http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/17op...jpg/xlarge.jpg
Judging by the already spoiled legendary merfolk... this will be unplayable. But who knows!
In the first link there's a picture that looks to be the art for the "gang of street-thugs" the flavor describes, so hopefully that's another Gobbo card on the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew
Oh, and please don't have the Goblin legend cost 4 mana. I don't care how broken they make him. Just make him cheap. A 2 drop, preferably. They printed Thalia. They can print an overpowered 2-drop goblin legend too.
@Mantis:
Did not liked your list so much... Your plan against Maverick is quite bad, and I don't know if it is worth making that MU so worse to improve the SnT that much.
I miss Shooter, Relic, more Knesis, Kiki and Squad on the main, aswell as more gempalm. Maybe cutting a Tarfire for the latter could be ok.
In the end, despite the lack of Grave hate, you SB is fine, and is an angle that may pay out.
If I may suggest some changes for your testings, they'd be:
MB: -1 Moutain, -2 Tarfire, -1 SGC, +1 Gempalm, +1 Kiki (only if you like him) or +1 Squad, +1 Warchief, +1 Shooter
SB:-2 Needle, -1 Reb, -1 Squad, +1 Knesis, +3 Surgical/Relic.
What do you think?
I'd very much like to read what you come up with your testings.
I usually don't like making any speculations for wizard's actions, but the merfolk-legend's ability makes me think of printing something like Wirewood Hivemaster or Lys Alana Huntmaster (or a combination of the two) for Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrw1985
Would a Goblin Hivemaster be good?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoboLord
It seem like a good card, that could possbly replace Mogg Warmarchall. Ifhe doesn't produces goblins though, it's garbish...