[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

@Litenkatt -- I'm actually going to be running Scapewish, while Steve (Maverick777) borrows my Rector list. He's going to be taking it to SCG Providence, which I regrettably cannot attend. So he's gonna go kick ass with it instead. If I feel spicy I might run BUG instead of Scapewish, but we'll see how I feel the morning of. I really want to top 8 this one so I can bring home a pair of Goyfs...because I've got a free Legacy at my local on Sunday that I want to play Shardless BUG at (for no other reason than that it's something different and looks fun as hell). I also currently own 0 Goyfs, although I can borrow two from a friend (ergo, I need to win 2)

@Papyrus (Resisting the urge to say G-pap :P) -- It does die to Deed a lot, and honestly, it can be a pretty skill-instensive decision sometimes when to blow Deed vs when you need to keep your Carpet around. More usually, though, Carpet accels you to the point where you don't care if it dies.

IMO, for as long as Legacy is having a love affair with soft counters like Spell Pierce and Daze, Carpet of Flowers will continue to be an allstar. It completely negates those cards, for free every turn. Also, don't forget that you can use it as a green Dark Ritual -- play it main phase 1, then declare attacks. At the beginning of main phase 2, Carpet of Flowers will trigger. I've used this trick many, many times to cheat out things that I otherwise couldn't cast.

Duress and Extirpate are fine cards against Show and Tell, but I would much rather accelerate into a faster Cranial Extraction in the matchup. I'll just cite personal preference here and move on, as I don't think that one option is strictly better than the other. There are hands that Duress + Extirpate will just slaughter, and there are hands that Cranial Extraction will beat that Duress wouldn't do anything to. I probably lean harder on Therapy than I really should, if I'm being honest, which is probably a shortcoming as a player. At the same time, Nic Fit is a ramp/control deck with a combo finish (some versions). We get to use some horrifically powerful cards that nobody else touches because of mana cost, and a lot of times, people have no idea how to play around those cards. Show and Tell players have to know how to deal with Thoughtseize, because Esperblade is a thing. They don't, however, have any idea how to deal with a resolved Cranial Extraction.

There are certainly arguments on the Duress side of things, but I'll stick with my Carpets for now. Disclaimer: I do believe that the time is coming in the meta where Carpet will get pushed out, temporarily at least. I see RUG take a nosedive in popularity soon thanks to Supreme Verdict. Wrath of God hasn't been playable in a long time because it always just gets Dazed or Pierced. But now that you can Wrath and give no fucks, players and decks both are going to have to accept the fact that Wrath of God is a card, and respect it. IMO, RUG loses the most both from Verdict existing, -and- because Verdict will likely cause a meta shift towards decks that are inherently hostile to RUG in the first place. Once this happens, I will be comfortable adopting other sideboard options in place of Carpet. Until then, I'll continue to enjoy my byes.

While we're talking limited, too, my deck was Sunday was sickkkkkk. It was this awesome Golgari/Selesnya hybrid. Like, I opened a Decay and a Vraska for Golgari, and then the land that makes an 8/8 and the enchantment that Populates on upkeep for free every turn. Deck was ridiculous. I only lost one match....my deck durdled g1, I slaughtered him g2, and then g3 he had t4 Rakdos into t5 Carnival Hellsteed + like 2 other creatures. Sooooo awkward.

As for Armada Wurm, I think he replaces Grave Titan in GBW Rock-style, and does nothing else. You probably get to cut Fierce Empath if you were running it, because you have a really solid Zenithable finisher. That leaves Sun Titan dangling, but you can probably find him with Tops + shuffles by the time you need him, or you can run a Call or an Intent to tutor him up.

@Something... -- I'll post it up sometime this afternoon. I actually need to tinker with it a bit before posting, as it's not quite where I want it to be yet. Then Saturday night once I'm back from Mythic I'll try to get up a tournament report complete with the latest lists for Scapewish and Rector.

@Arianarhood

I neglected to mention that I also board in 2x Memoricide/Cranial split against SnT. It's still not a great matchup but I see what you're getting at with Carpet of Flowers making Mem/Cran that much better in SnT. I'll have to try it out instead of relying on Vet/Cabal like I have been.

I never ran Sun Titan to begin with. I played GB until Sigarda came out. Now that I'm playing GBW, I've never found myself needing the extra recurrance, between two Eternal Witnesses, Swords, Abrupt Decay, and Pulse.

If Sun Titan had green in it, I'd think about throwing it into Armada Wurm's slot to get another utility / beatstick but I'm not sure if I'd run it with my list because I'd have to put in a Fierce Empath.

Here's my starting point for BUG. Keep in mind that this is rough and untested:

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Coiling Oracle
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thragtusk
1x Sphinx of Uthuun

2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Vraska the Unseen
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter

4x Pernicious Deed
1x Future Sight
1x Recurring Nightmare

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
3x Counterspell

2x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Cabal Therapy
2x Maelstrom Pulse

1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower
3x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
3x Forest
3x Island
2x Swamp
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs

//SB
4x Flusterstorm
3x Sower of Temptation
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
2x Infest
2x Kitchen Finks


I'm also toying with the idea of trying to abuse Merchant Scroll, since it's very underplayed IMO. I mean, it's good enough to be restricted in vintage, so it seems like it should be better in legacy. Using Scoll would let us run 1 Counterspell, 1 Gifts, 8 Brainstorms, etc. Sphinx's Revelation is a particularly interesting example, although the W in its cost would probably be annoying. It's just an idea.

Speaking of ideas, another one I had for BUG was running baby [cards]Jace Beleren[/b]. If you drop baby Jace on t2 after an Explorer/Therapy, you're going to be stupidly far ahead, and it's a preemptive answer to Mind-Sculptor. I dunno. It's a thought that I'll probably experiment with at some point.

Vintage has Ancestral so that comparison is flawed. Anyway. I think you should give the Trinket Mage toolbox a try. It makes it so that Primeval Titan becomes a relevant finisher by grabbing Ruins/Stronghold that you can also GSZ for (unlike Sphinx).
If you insist on not giving it a shot and you don't play GSZ there is absolutely no reason to run anything less than 4 Shardless Agents.

I really love Shardless Agent, but as my BUG list is now, i wouldn't know how to fit him in, so i'm not sure if he needs to be in every non-GSZ BUG list.

I have a hard time justifying Green Sun in BUG versions because BUG tends to run dramatically fewer creatures (or Green creatures, at least) than other versions. I do love me some Trinket Mage, but I feel like there's just no room. By the time you're done with the core of Explorer, Therapy, Deed, Brainstorm, Top, there's so little flex room left. Space is just a huge problem for the BUG versions, I feel.

I know that I want to abuse the everloving hell out of Future Sight, and I know that the BUG version theoretically should be the combo-killer out of the family, due to things like Flusterstorm and Sower of Temptation. Like I said, this list is a very rough starting point, and will probably change a lot before I'm actually happy with it.

Vintage does have Ancestral, I fully grant that. But Scroll is still a 2-drop tutor for any blue instant. I mean, sure, it's a little restrictive, but it's a hell of a powerful tutor -- especially when you consider some of the cards that are blue and instant. I'm certainly not saying that it's the best option, but it's worthy of exploration, I feel.

My BUG list plays 4 GSZ, a Trinket package, and 5 PWs. I have foregone Pulses/Decays because, well, I can just nuke everything, all the time...


Creatures (12)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Trinket Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Primeval Titan

Spells (25)
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Executioner's Capsule

2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter

Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Tropical island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island

Sideboard (15)
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
4 Thoughtseize
4 Negate


If I were to include a "Vindicate" affect to this list, I would do so in the form of a singleton Vraska. Perhaps -1 Liliana, +1 Vraska.

Also, I am really glad that Tao emerged from the deep with his Trinket package, it's very smooth. That singleton Slime is also a life-saver and reminds me of when I played GBW Nic Fit when I had Volrath Tower, Witness, and Vindicate online. Such a deadly looper and nifty surprise on SnT -> Omniscience.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Starved Rusalka
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Intuition
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Vraska, the Unseen
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island

Cabal Therapy Flashback + Surgical Extraction Phyrexian Manacost = Munchkin-Memoricide.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Top 8'd all three prereleases this weekend. The important part: Midnight Friday, I'd snap-pre-regged for Golgari because I'm a hardcore G/B player (not just in legacy, I'm afraid). So I pick up my guild box, go and sit down and wait sleepily for them to say that we can open. I cracked the box, and open the following:

Guild pack: Abrupt Decay
Pack 1: Foil Abrupt Decay

I was a very, very happy person.

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I am jealous though I did manage to crack a single Abrupt Decay in my one and only prerelease. I then proceeded to take a decent pool and build a terrible deck out of it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

If you really need to crack Rector, Vindicating or Pulsing her is acceptable as well (+2).

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At SCG Madison I played the Legacy challenge on Saturday. At the time I was running Deadguy and ran into a Nic Fit player (who I now know to be jbone). He played an Explorer, I put him on Nic Fit and think to myself, "Great. I've got like 3 basics, he's got a bunch of bombs to ramp in to." I play out a Bitterblossom, he plays out a second Explorer. At this point I figure I can just fly over him, but I better do it fast before bombs start dropping so I play a second Bitterblossom.

You can see where this is going. He then proceeds to Pulse my Bitterblossoms. Whoops. Hilarity ensues if you are jbone as he goes on to crush me.

After the game he told me he'd planned on Pulsing the Explorers on his turn. So yeah, Pulsing/Vindicating your dudes? Perfectly okay. So is punishing people who foolishly play out cards :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

I see RUG take a nosedive in popularity soon thanks to Supreme Verdict. Wrath of God hasn't been playable in a long time because it always just gets Dazed or Pierced. But now that you can Wrath and give no fucks, players and decks both are going to have to accept the fact that Wrath of God is a card, and respect it. IMO, RUG loses the most both from Verdict existing, -and- because Verdict will likely cause a meta shift towards decks that are inherently hostile to RUG in the first place.

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Isn't that a meta shift that's a bit bad for us? Verdict pushes down Merfolk and RUG which are decks we can deal with handily. Something has to fill that void and it probably isn't Miracles because of Abrupt Decay. Am I missing something or is Goblins looking pretty good? Sure both Decay and Verdict hit them, but they manage pretty good CA through Ringleader and Krenko to fight through wipes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

1 Birds of Paradise

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BoP is pretty bad for us. Deed hoses it and it stinks w/o an equipment to slap on it in the mid- to late-game. There are any number of alternative ramp sources which are all better for us that Arianrhod spelled out earlier today since they net a land (or card).

Took another first place with BUG Fit. The list I used is posted above.

1-1-1 vs. OmniTell (we timed but I had it in the bag)

Lost G1 but dominated the following games. Negates and Thoughtseizes allows me to set up a lock on the game (a combination of Pithing + Capsule or Liliana/Jace with Negate backup).

2-0 vs. Zoo

Thragtusk and Ooze get there. Wiped 2 Goyf and 3 Qasali with a single therapy during a game.

2-0 vs. Merfolk

Single Garruk after a mull to 5 stalls to 7 X 6/6 Wurms. Volrath Tower + Thragtusk loop in G2.

2-1 vs. DnT

Lose G1 to a greedy 1 land/1 Brainstorm hand, I fail to find lands and I scoop to Karakas/Mangara. Recurring Deeds along with EE and Plagues makes it impossible for my opponent to stick anything in G2 and 3.

@qweerios: 4 GSZ seems good. Also the Executioner's Capsule seems right, I have to agree. But I really don't like the choice of 0 Abrupt Decay. And even though Spot Removal is currently not that great in Legacy, Decay fills the curve so well while being able to dogde Spell Snare. And getting rid of Counterbalance is what currently makes it a must-play imo, at least as a 2-off.

Man, I haven't seen anyone use Spell Snare in a good 6 months... As it is now, I prefer Liliana to Decay. I get more value out of her than a straight 1 for 1.

I've seen people use Spell Snare.....in vintage. (Seriously, it's soooooo good right now in that format). But Qweerios is right -- I haven't seen a Snare in legacy in a long-ass time. Not really sure there's pressing need for it to come back, either -- Counterbalance is around, but it's hardly dominating.

@Slikwilly -- Birds is fine in BUG versions (as is Hierarch). BUG needs some kind of mana dork, because they need a way to make blue mana without actually fetching an island, or else Merfolk will eat their soul. Being able to block the fishmen while building up mana to play/crack Deed is a big deal in the matchup. I resist playing BoP/Hierarch in other versions of the deck, but it's fine in BUG. It's just a situational choice.

And yeah, I'm going to miss having RUG around to shit on, but we'll adapt.

I think there are two -huge- gainers from RtR: BUG Control (non-Explorer, specifically), and U/W traditional control/Landstill. I'm not sure Verdict/Sphere are good enough to resurrect Standstill as a card, but they are awfully good.

Now -- both of these decks (should) shit on RUG in its current incarnation. More importantly as far we're concerned, they should shit on Show and Tell even harder. BUG has always been good vs combo IF it runs Goyf. Discard + counter + clock is something that combo just folds to. U/W will have Detention Spheres to nuke things off of Show, uncounterable sweepers to kill Grisel/Emrakul, and a ton of more situational options alongside lots of countermagic. They also have Terminus still, which means they'll have likely somewhere around 6 sweepers (3/3 or 4/2, I'd imagine). Both of these are also good vs Maverick, because they have a pisston of sweepers. Maverick -can- rely on Tsunami/Choke, however, which means that, along with Omniscience and Detention Sphere, Disenchant/Krosan Grip should gain in market share -- even more so if the U/W deck chooses Stoneforge.

Goblins seems fine vs BUG, but they're going to struggle vs U/W. U/W can bring all the spot removal, combined with sweepers and potential Moats. One thing that gives me pause about the matchup, though, is something that Finn pointed out in the DnT thread on Salvation -- Verdict's mana cost. 1WWU is pretty specific, and vulnerable to Waste/Port. BUG has always, always, always had trouble with its mana base as well, so Rishadan Port seems like a good gainer in the meta.

As for where that leaves us....well. BUG is an easy matchup for us, as is most varieties of U/W.dec. I don't know what exactly these lumbering U/W control decks will look like, so I can't say how best to attack them as yet, but Nic Fit's level of recursion (esp. Nightmare) is something that seems like it would be pretty boss vs the way their deck will likely be set up. They'll also likely have few win conditions, which means Cranial Extraction is an all-star (same with BUG). Phyrexian Arena may get bumped up in number, or additional copies in the board at least, as Arena tends to win those matchups by itself. Detention Sphere is nothing that we need to worry about, as it can get Deed/Pulse/Decay/Qasali/Sliver/Vindicate/Vraska/whatever out of the way. Rector is fine vs Goblins, thanks to Moat -- not sure how other versions fare. Scapewish is probably fine, since it can just combo out while chumping with accelerators.

Or, it might be that I don't have enough faith in RUG as a bad guy, and maybe it'll adapt and be fine. Or maybe people won't actually do the work of rebuilding BUG and U/W to make the meta shift happen. It's all theory and conjecture. If RUG/Maverick get pushed out and the meta shifts, though, I certainly don't think it's the end of the world for us. We can literally tune our deck to beat anything. The Explorer/Therapy engine is inherently good, IMO, and not merely good vs a certain meta. Hell, the deck in its modern form was born during the Misstep era. If it survived that, and it survived the high tide of Show and Tell, we can survive whatever is coming.

Regarding the BUG fit list... How often do you guys mulligan a hand with no explorer? Would you keep a hand with therapy, land, land, and no creatures? Do you always try to have therapy + 1 or 2 drop creature to abuse it?


I think I'm playing the deck wrong. lol

Well, in my list, I generally keep the following hands:

1 Vet + 1 Sac Outlet + 1-3 Land + 2-4 Else (sac outlet includes GSZ for Rusalka as well)
1 Birds + 1-3 Land + 3-5 Else (Again, includes GSZ for Birds as well, though in that instance Else would also not include any sac outlets)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

Well, in my list, I generally keep the following hands:

1 Vet + 1 Sac Outlet + 1-3 Land + 2-4 Else (sac outlet includes GSZ for Rusalka as well)
1 Birds + 1-3 Land + 3-5 Else (Again, includes GSZ for Birds as well, though in that instance Else would also not include any sac outlets)

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Re: mulligan decisions.
I'm on GBW rockstyle Nic Fit for a few months now and have been learning the hard way that one (me) should nearly never keep a one-lander no matter what. Especially 1 land, explorer, (possible) sac outlet bit me in the tail more often than I'd like to admit. You open yourself to Stifle, Wasteland, Counters, Swords/Path in way one often cannot recover from, IMHO. I want to make it to mid/late game and that is not the way to go.

Rare occasion where one landers work out for me, involves: -postboard game -basic land -sensei's divining top -1cc action (carpet, sword, discard and the like).
Disclaimer: and even that setting came back to haunt me recently. On a mulligan to six postboard vs Stoneblade I kept basic land, SDT, SDT, three other cards. My opponent forced both tops on T1 and T2 respectively, gg.

I've gotten a lot ballsier with my hands that I keep on the draw, and more often than not it pays off. I usually snap keep anything with a basic (or a fetch) and a Top. Some hands are obvious (land land Explorer Therapy XXX win?). But I tend to experiment a lot. It depends on what I'm up against, too. If I'm playing vs like Gobs or Fish, I'll keep a mono Forest + Explorer hand, because I can rely on my opponents' attack phase to set it off. I'll try to remember better what hands I actually keep, because to be honest I just kind of do it and don't think much about it afterwards.

But yeah, it depends a ton whether you're on the play or on the draw.

If I am playing against any deck that has to attack to beat me, I will usually keep the one land explorer hand. Eventually it will trigger, and once it does. Oh man. Of course that is also if they dont run white. Because STP is a Bitch.

Im currently Taking sample hands while I solitaire and Ill post whether or not I keep (keep in mind I am playing GB)

Hand 1: Forest, Swamp, 2x Verdant Catacombs, Eternal Witness, Maelstrom Pulse, SDT

I will probably keep this more than 60% of the time G1 just because of SDT and Witness. The pulse is nice catch all removal. G2 I would keep this if I were playing against most non combo decks. Probably mull against tribal.

Hand 2: 2x Swamp, Verdant Catacombs, Pernicious Deed, maelstrom Pulse, Explorer, natures Lore

G1 I will almost always keep this hand. I would open by fetching for a forest and playing the explorer. G2 again I will keep it if I were against any non combo deck (maybe even keep it vs belcher)

Hand 3: 2x Forest, Swamp, Bayou, Dryad Arbor, SDT, Maelstrom Pulse

Meh... dryad arbor in the opener always makes me cringe. SDT is a redeeming factor. More than likely I would keep, but I doubt it would be right. Against control G@ I may keep it, but against anything else I mull.

Hand 4: 2x Forest, Swamp, Treetop Village, 2x GSZ, Garruk, Primal Hunter

Ill probably keep G1. Having 2 GSZ is awesome. G2 Its tough. having no removal against creature decks seems bad.

Hand 5: Forest, Verdant Catacombs, 2x Pernicious Deed, E Witness, SDT, Innocent blood

Again, I probably keep it, but it doesnt mean that it is right. If I never draw land then I lose without a fight. Having 2 deeds and having SDT makes me want to keep it though.

Thinking about it, this is with only 3 explorers in my deck due to dropping my deck in a cup of water last night (dont ask). Luckily double sleeves! Sadly one man didnt ,make it